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The Jehoshua Novels


They're Gonna Swiftboat Murtha

See the latest connect-the-dots at Taylor Marsh. It’s important to keep the communication ongoing between the two blogs so we can better understand and weave together the story, as we are kind of covering two different angles. Keep up the good work. Taylor’s main Murtha page is here. Great Kos diary on the possible profiteering angle.

To our new visitors: please help us track down and investigate and expose those involved in this enterprise. Read the post below and if you can help, please do so.

Let the swiftboating begin. Check this out: www.murthalied.com

Here is the DNS info (here and here and here)if anyone cares to track this stuff down.

More as it comes.

Update 6: Now this and this are interesting, as reader Dekkard notes:

This is about Ireys run against Jack Murtha . . . did some digging. . . went to corps watch. It seems that Ireys husband Bob.. was involved with a gentleman who was killed in iraq and not a solder.. a contractor(and as I read, arms dealer). Here is the url.. its good reading. Also found a blog post From Roger Morrow(Gerald Ford’s speechwriter), that you can read here.
Now I may be wrong. . . but it seems that some calls were made to our favorite Penn aparatchik, Mr. Santorum. Hope this helps.

Very interesting.

More after the jump.

Update: Here is what we know so far, but we could use your help.

The person who set up the site is one Amanda P. Doss, and a quick google search turns up this site: www.operationstreetcorner.com, which is a wonderful site, as Billy found out, dedicated to: “The Vietnam Veterans’ Grassroots Campaign Against John Kerry and Jane Fonda, traitors to our country.” She may be tied to Jerome Corsi and some of the Swiftboaters, themselves, but we need your help. Please google around and look for associations and links. It is important and essential to pre-empt this crap before they get it out. Doss’ email: amandapdoss@yahoo.com Add any new info to the comments of shoot me an email: seanpaul-at-agonist.dot.org

Update 2: Amanda Doss is tied into Swiftboat liars a great deal, see this Newsmax story where she was an honoree. Scroll down.

There is also, per ElectroOverlord, a link between Doss and Tony Snesko. Doss is also a poster in Freeperland. Has she posted anything other than this at the Free Republic? More as it comes.

Update 3: She’s got a client list.

Update 4: Apparently one of the folks involved in hiring Ms. Doss was Larry Bailey. I don’t much about him, but this is a start.

Update 5: She might be a lobbyist, or related to lobbyists as well. And here is her Ebay page, that I believe accepts comments.

More:

More:

http://murthamustgo.blogspot.com/

Administrative: First item of business is to get our website up and
running in a credible way. Amanda Prewett Doss of Texarkana, TX, who
handled the ’04 campaign, has been engaged to be our website manager,
and she has already purchased our domain name
http://www.murthalied.com/ What we need to do now it to develop the
download folder from which our volunteers will obtain the flyers that
they will post on their display boards. PLEASE keep your eyes open for
ANYTHING that could be used (to defeat) Murtha. For the time being,
send what you find to me; I have asked a very literate friend to stand
by to extract the most salient quotes for posting in large font on our
display boards.

Listen, folks! Operation Street Corner will WORK, and I think its
effect will, after the election, be measurable. We just need to start
small and build to a crescendo in October and culminate in a Rally or
some major event just before the election.”

Larry Bailey can be contacted via email here: murthalied@cox.net

More from Graham:

“A group has formed to help Kerry out. Called “KerrysTreason.com,” the group has created a website on which they have archived Standard Form 180, in PDF format.”

(snip)

“The site was created by Amanda Prewett Doss, the daughter of Vietnam veteran, Capt. Glen Prewett, and by Carol Gell Crowley, daughter of Vietnam veteran, Sgt. Jack Gell.”

(snip)

The group is sponsored by the online newspaper, U.S. Veteran Dispatch, whose publisher is Ted Sampley.

Who is Ted Sampley?

Link

As a friend writes in, “Always good to have a face with a name.” Indeed, here is Amanda:

108 comments to They're Gonna Swiftboat Murtha

  • billy68

    …it seems possible that the Amanda Doss who registered the domain name might be the same Ms. Doss who runs operationstreetcorner.com – quote ‘The Vietnam Veterans’ Grassroots Campaign Against John Kerry and Jane Fonda, traitors to our country.’ Polite enquiries might be addressed to amandapdoss@yahoo.com

  • candy

    I get forbidden or below for http://www.murthalied.com:

    Parent Directory 23-Jun-2006 22:16 –
    [DIR] _private/ 15-Jun-2006 23:49 –
    [DIR] cgi-bin/ 15-Jun-2006 23:49 –
    [DIR] images/ 10-Nov-2000 08:23 –
    [TXT] postinfo.html 15-Jun-2006 23:49 2k

  • quiet Bill

    To keep people like you from seeing them :)

  • Anonymous

    http://www.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=161347&

    Found this in my mailbox, courtesy of the Kerry’s Treason website/mailing list I belong to:

    Dear Everyone,

    If this doesn’t get you fired up, I don’t know what will! Hanoi John
    rides again.

    Amanda Doss
    Operation Street Corner
    Kerry’s Treason

    Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:23:16 -0500
    From: “John Kerry”
    Subject: Don’t stand for “Swift Boat” style attacks on Jack Murtha

    John Kerry

    Dear Friend,

    This is our moment of truth. You and I have to make it absolutely clear
    that we won’t stand for Republican “Swift Boat” style attacks on Jack
    Murtha.

    Yesterday, an extraordinary congressman, former Marine Drill Sergeant
    and decorated Vietnam veteran, spoke out on the war in Iraq. He didn’t
    come to that moment lightly. He spoke his mind and spoke his heart out
    of love for his country and support for our troops. No sooner had the
    words left his lips than the vicious assault on his character and
    patriotism began.

    Today, in a statement on the Senate floor, in interviews with the
    national media, and in this message to you, I am seeking out every
    opportunity to defend a brave American hero that the Republican attack
    machine has set their sights on.

    I urge you to do the same. Whether you agree or disagree with Jack
    Murtha is irrelevant. These despicable attacks on Jack Murtha’s
    patriotism and courage must be met with an enormous public outcry. Call
    your local talk radio show, write a letter to the editor, phone your
    members of Congress – join me in acting now to reject these “Swift
    Boat”
    style attacks on Jack Murtha.

    It disgusts me that a bunch of guys who have never put on the uniform
    of
    their country have aimed their venom at a marine who served America
    heroically in Vietnam and has been serving heroically in Congress ever
    since. No matter what J.D. Hayworth says, there is no sterner stuff
    than
    the backbone and courage that defines Jack Murtha’s character and
    conscience.

    Dennis Hastert — the Speaker of the House who never served — accused
    Jack Murtha of being a coward. Well let me tell you, Jack Murtha wasn’t
    a coward when he put himself in harm’s way for his country in Vietnam
    and earned two purple hearts — he was a patriot then, and he is a
    patriot today. Jack Murtha’s courage in combat earned him a Bronze
    Star,
    and his voice should be heard, not silenced by those who still today
    cut
    and run from the truth.

    Instead of letting his cronies run their mouths, the President for once
    should stop his allies from doing to Jack Murtha what he set them loose
    to do to John McCain in South Carolina and Max Cleland in Georgia.

    The President should finally find the courage to debate the real issue
    instead of destroying anyone who speaks truth to power as they see it.
    It’s time for Americans to stand up, fight back, and make it clear it’s
    unacceptable to do this to any leader of any party anywhere in our
    country.

    I urge you to join today in a massive public outcry that rejects the
    attempt to demonize and destroy anyone who dares to disagree with
    George
    W. Bush’s aimless “stay for as long as it takes” policy on Iraq.

    Please act now. Call and email your elected officials. Flood talk radio
    with calls rejecting these vicious smear tactics. Send a letter to the
    editor. Express your outrage about the tired old Rovian “Swift Boat”
    style attacks on Jack Murtha.

    Sincerely,

    John Kerry

  • ElectroOverlord

    Registrant:
    Doss, Amanda
    ATTN: MURTHALIED.COM
    c/o Network Solutions
    P.O. Box 447
    Herndon, VA. 20172-0447

    Domain Name: MURTHALIED.COM

    Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
    Doss, Amanda ay89v7n66hp@networksolutionsprivateregistration.com
    ATTN: MURTHALIED.COM
    c/o Network Solutions
    P.O. Box 447
    Herndon, VA 20172-0447
    570-708-8780

    Record expires on 15-Jun-2007.
    Record created on 15-Jun-2006.
    Database last updated on 24-Jun-2006 00:12:29 EDT.

    Domain servers in listed order:

    NS440.PAIR.COM 209.68.4.222
    NS5.NS0.COM 216.92.61.30

  • graham6732

    amandapdoss@yahoo.com

    is linked repeatedly to “Amanda’s Pages” web design. Ms. Doss is indeed associated with Operation Street Corner. I thought perhaps she was just the web designer for the site but I found a pic of her and another woman (don’t know which is Amanda) protesting Jane Fonda on this page.

    http://operationstreetcorner.com/FondaDallas1.htm

    By googling “Amanda’s Pages” “web design” I found that she has designed a couple sites, ranging from a child care facilities to an auto body shop, all in Texarkana. There is a website http://www.electbenfranks.com/index.htm also designed by Amanda Doss, also in Texarkana. At the bottom of each page is a link to the yahoo email addy.

  • graham6732

    I wonder if her freeper and swift boat friends know she designed a site for the Democratic candidate for Justice of 6th Court of Appeals.

  • Anonymous

    link

    PLEASE USE HTML TAGS ON URLs TO CREATE LINKS.

    SF180 forms to flood Kerry’s office
    Jerome Corsi

    So now John Kerry has told both Tim Russert on “Meet the Press” and Don Imus on his morning MSNBC-broadcast radio show that he will sign Standard Form 180. But when? Sometime before 2008, when he has to run for re-election in Massachusetts for the Senate?

    A group has formed to help Kerry out. Called “KerrysTreason.com,” the group has created a website on which they have archived Standard Form 180, in PDF format. The group is calling for a campaign to flood Kerry’s Senate office with SF180s sent in from all over America. The website gives Kerry’s Washington office address and lists specific instructions for printing the SF180 and sending it in.

    The site was created by Amanda Prewett Doss, the daughter of Vietnam veteran, Capt. Glen Prewett, and by Carol Gell Crowley, daughter of Vietnam veteran, Sgt. Jack Gell. At the “Kerry Lied” rally held by the Vietnam Veterans for the Truth during the 2004 presidential campaign, Carol Crowley gave a moving speech expressing her love for her father. [Click here to read the speech.-- BF] Carol brought the large crowd assembled on the U.S. Capitol grounds to tears when she recalled how her father’s last words when dying from combat wounds in Vietnam were for his wife and family back home.

    [Read the rest here.]

  • Anonymous

    http://murthamustgo.blogspot.com/

    Administrative: First item of business is to get our website up and running in a credible way. Amanda Prewett Doss of Texarkana, TX, who handled the ’04 campaign, has been engaged to be our website manager, and she has already purchased our domain name http://www.murthalied.com/ What we need to do now it to develop the download folder from which our volunteers will obtain the flyers that they will post on their display boards. PLEASE keep your eyes open for ANYTHING that could be used (to defeat) Murtha. For the time being, send what you find to me; I have asked a very literate friend to stand by to extract the most salient quotes for posting in large font on our display boards.

    Listen, folks! Operation Street Corner will WORK, and I think its effect will, after the election, be measurable. We just need to start small and build to a crescendo in October and culminate in a Rally or some major event just before the election.”

    Larry Bailey can be contacted via email here: murthalied@cox.net

    To support Mrs. Diana Irey, Murtha’s experienced and able opponent, go here: http://www.irey.com/

  • graham6732

    “A group has formed to help Kerry out. Called “KerrysTreason.com,” the group has created a website on which they have archived Standard Form 180, in PDF format.”

    (snip)

    “The site was created by Amanda Prewett Doss, the daughter of Vietnam veteran, Capt. Glen Prewett, and by Carol Gell Crowley, daughter of Vietnam veteran, Sgt. Jack Gell.”

    (snip)

    The group is sponsored by the online newspaper, U.S. Veteran Dispatch, whose publisher is Ted Sampley.

    Who is Ted Sampley?

    Link

  • originalpckelly

    Palestine police, Prewetts settle suit with $75,000

    Although jurors sided with Palestine officers, the lawsuit was settled to avoid a prolonged appeals process

    By LISA BOSE McDERMOTT
    Texarkana Gazette

    The long court battle between a pair of Texarkana siblings and the Palestine, Texas, Police Department has ended in a $75,000 settlement, court records show.

    Amanda and Bryan Prewett sued the City of Palestine, its police department and one if its officers, Anderson County and an Anderson County sheriff’s deputy for violating their civil rights.

    The suit was brought after the Prewetts used an obscene gesture at the officers who were undercover in an unmarked police car.

    They were arrested and jailed overnight in the Anderson County Jail. During their jail stay, Amanda Prewett was strip-searched, which her lawyer, David Carter, said was unlawful.

    The pair told a federal jury that they were reacting to being cut off on the highway. The officers told jurors that the pair was inciting violence and it was not clear who the gesture was aimed at.

    Jurors sided with the officers and the Prewetts left the courthouse empty-handed.

    However, both sides went back to the bargaining table as the Prewetts were about to launch their appeal. Both Carter and Troy Hornsby, the officers’ lawyer, say this is typical, even after a jury has issued a finding in a case.

    The officers and their government employers agreed to settle the entire case for $75,000. The settlement was filed on Tuesday.

    “The law was clear and the settlement saves us the trouble of having a new trial. I felt good about getting a new trial,” Carter said.

    Hornsby said the settlement effectively ends the litigation between the two sides after the Prewetts threatened to seek a new trial.

    “That threat along with the continuing costs of the appellate process out there factored in to the decision to settle,” Hornsby said.

    Hornsby says the settlement is less money than the Prewetts had demanded prior to the federal trial.

    “We are pleased with the settlement, especially the strong language in the court’s order which warns the defendants not to make the same mistake again. The primary purpose for the suit was to ensure that no other citizens spend the night in the Anderson County Jail solely because they say or do something which angers a police officer,” Carter said.

    According to the court order, U.S. District Judge David Folsom found that the use of the obscene gesture directed toward the officers was considered protected free speech and officers are prohibited from retaliating against someone who uses the gesture.

    Folsom also found that persons arrested for minor offenses may not be strip-searched unless there is probable cause to believe that the person has a concealed weapon or contraband on them.

    The officers and the siblings first made contact on Dec. 1, 1998, when Amanda Prewett displayed her middle finger, a common offensive gesture, at an officer who was driving an unmarked black Jeep Cherokee. There were two officers in the Jeep who were working on a narcotics task force at the time and were not in uniform.

    The Prewetts, who were en route to Texas A&M University for Amanda Prewett’s final exams, said the officers “cut them off” and forced Amanda Prewett to brake her vehicle suddenly. She admits to honking her horn and “flipping off” the driver of the Jeep as she went past. The officer testified that she did not think that she had interfered with Amanda Prewett’s driving.

    The Prewetts said they did not know the occupants of the Jeep were law enforcement officers because they were in an unmarked vehicle and were not in uniform.

    The officers testified that Amanda Prewett used the gesture twice. They contend they followed the Prewett vehicle to investigate the matter. During the course of being tailed by the officers, Bryan Prewett admitted in court that he leaned out of the passenger window, sitting on the door ledge giving the officers the gesture with both hands.

    The officers say the arrest was based on the totality of the incident and that Palestine residents could have seen it since it was on a public street. They argued the gesture can incite violence and that the Prewetts had breached the peace.

  • ffakr

    Perhaps I’m being nieve. I do understand that there is case law providing significantly more 1st amendment protection to political speech but this certainly sounds like Libel.

    It’s my understanding that the courts have ruled that someone (some group) running against Murtha can pretty much say whatever they want and Murtha has no recourse other than to refute false claims.

    This, to me, seems much different. This group is not affilitated with any campaign. At least they’ll never admit to it.
    The other issue I see here is that they are making a very specific libel. They have registered and are actively using a web site called Murthalied and they are accusing him of Treason. These are two very specific charges. I believe they are both utterly without merit. They are being made in print (electronic and they are advocating that people print these libels and post them in public). This is the dictonary definition of Libel.

    The political landscape is changing. There are too many diffuse, shadowy groups running the vilest propaganda for politicians. I think Murtha should show them what he’s made of and he should sue everyone connected, vigorously, for libel with malicious intent to defame his reputation and character with the express purpose of destroying his career and depriving him of his income.
    Put the fear of something more powerful than god into them (at least more powerful to them).. put the fear of a big fat legal bill and an even fatter judgement into them.

    Does anyone see any particular reason why a politician can’t sue for libel and slander when the attackers are not part of an active and official election campaign?

    jmho.
    ffakr.

  • Anonymous

    Texarkana,TX has both a possible Amanda and what appears to be a possible relative (father) Glen Prewett.

    ————————–
    Prewett, Glen

    Personal information removed by editors.

    ————————–
    PREWETT, AMANDA LOUISE
    This is just a maybe, but it looks interesting.
    ————————–

  • Sharoney

    on Taylor’s blog forwarded this tasty bit outlining the whole enchilada on what they have planned for Murtha, complete with names of the principals involved and some handy links.

    It looks like Murtha’s opponent, a relative lightweight named Diana Irey, has asked the blog owner to post a correction stating that Mike Bradley and Larry Bailey, who are mentioned prominently in the post, have no connection to her campaign. Uh-huh.

    It may also be useful to research this thing from the other end, beginning with Irey’s own website registration info < href="http://whois.domaintools.com/irey.com">here.

    A reverse IP lookup yields a bunch of other sites for Ms. Irey, registered by other individuals whose histories may also be online.

  • vanmojo

    Yeah and we have a little more on Larry Bailey…

    Get the FEC Filing on “Vietnam Veterans for the Truth, LLC” and he is listed as the President. However, another name comes up in the filings. A letter to the FEC also names a “Terry Garlock” from Peachtree, GA.

    That name ring a bell for anyone?

    Also, we are following this on our blog, the Mojowire as well.

  • candy

    yawn I just love when the other side tells what its doing. lol Thanks for the link

  • Dekkard

    If you want any dirt here.. did some digging..went to corps watch. It seems that Ireys husband Bob.. was involved with a gentleman who was killed in iraq and not a solder.. a contractor(and as I read, arms dealer). Here is the url.. its good reading http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=13185. Also found a blog post From Roger Morrow(Gerald Ford’s speechwriter), that you can read here
    http://writingcompany.blogs.com/this_isnt_writing_its_typ/2005/01/who_killed_dale.html
    Now I may be wrong.. but it seems that some calls were made to our favorite pen aparatchik , Mr. santorum. Hope this helps

  • ElectroOverlord

    I think we need to ask Diana if she approves of this tactic agianst Murtha?

    We need to watch her run with eagle eyes. If it is on issues. We leave her be, let the American people speak. If it slids into lies about Murtha, then we attack her with truth on a national front.

    Always attack the lies/falsehood of murthalies.com.

    Keep the ideals of our nation above the names and personalities.

  • Brawlin_Dem

    I couldn’t help but notice what a crappy site “MurthaLied” was. She claimed to be a web designer so I did a little digging and couldn’t find one thing ever designed by the owner. I emailed her and asked her to provide a link to anything she’s ever done. We’ll see what happens. She only posts the most extreme emails so mine might not make it on her site but hopefully it will garner a reply.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t know if this helps.

    They’re using this to get donations for Irey.

    link

    PLEASE USE HTML TAGS ON URLs TO CREATE LINKS.

    This is some info on Irey:
    http://www.irey.com/

    First the smear…

    Thirty two years is a long time to spend in Washington. For decades, western Pennsylvania looked to John Murtha to stand up for our values. But as the years have drifted by, John Murtha has drifted further and further from the ideals that made this country great. He has become part of the problem in Washington.

    While John Murtha is calling for an immediate withdrawal from the war against terror, Diana Irey has been standing steadfastly by our fighting men and women and is committed to finishing the job. And while John Murtha is voting to tax our social security benefits, Diana Irey has been holding the line on taxes and government spending.

    This election is about bringing common sense principles back to Congress. Join the fight!

    Smear articles from the Washington Times and appearances on Fox news.

    6/22/2006 – Rep. Murtha: Pennsylvania’s Embarrassment–Real Clear Politics 6-21

    6/22/2006 – Irey to Appear on “Mike Gallagher Show” and Fox News Channel 6-22

    6/22/2006 – Irey Renews Call for Murtha Apology

    6/21/2006 – The Real Jack Murtha–The Washington Times 6-21

    “Do you know Murtha” section:

    http://www.irey.com/OutOfTouch.aspx
    Do you know this man?

    For years, many of us throughout Pennsylvania trusted John Murtha. We knew him and he looked out for our interests and our values. But that John Murtha is missing today.

    After 32 years in Washington, John Murtha has become part of the problem. To name just a few examples:

    John Murtha – Wrong on Congressional Pay Raises. Since 1995, John Murtha has voted 11 straight times in favor of raising his own pay. (CQ #648, #317, #435, #289, #300, #419, #267, #322, #463, #451, and #327)
    John Murtha – Wrong on Spending. John Murtha has voted multiple times to raid the social security trust fund – the key to your retirement – to pay for wasteful government spending projects.
    John Murtha – Wrong on Health Care. John Murtha has voted to actually make your health care more expensive. He even voted against tax-free health savings accounts.
    John Murtha – Wrong on National Defense. John Murtha actually voted to cut spending on our national security by $76 billion. Then, he voted in favor of instituting the draft! And, perhaps most stunning of all, John Murtha spoke out against the brave men and women who are defending our freedom by calling for an immediate withdrawl of our troops from Iraq.

    “out of touch” link leads to the above post
    http://www.irey.com/OutOfTouch.aspx
    This is on the google page: DIANA IREY US CONGRESS :: Out of touch600 Park Avenue | Monongahela, PA 15063 | p/724-258-2300 | f/724-258-8600 | e/Diana@Irey.com · Privacy & Security Policy.

  • saut del ange

    ElectroOverlord June 24, 2006 – 9:59pm

    If it’s on her website then that announces her approval of the smear campaign.

  • Brawlin_Dem

    Hahahahaha!!! Look at her so-called “professional web designs.” I emailed her and asked her for some links to her work. She emailed back and sent along the links below.

    http://www.operationstreetcorner.com/

    http://www.childrensworldonline.com/

    http://www.electbenfranks.com/qualifications.htm

    I didn’t know professionals were still using clipart in their web designs.

  • shellius

    I do a podcast (liberal) and I emailed her asking to interview her. I didn’t tell her I was liberal though. I’ll let you know if she responds.

  • candy

    That would be one interesting conversation to hear. :)

  • Escher Sketch

    New ‘Murtha Lied’ Website posts ‘hateful’ emails after liberal blogs start digging

    A new Website devoted to the “lies” of Pennsylvania Democratic Congressman Jack Murtha went live a few days early in order to post “hateful” emails sent by readers of liberal blogs that were tipped off early and had already begun digging into the site’s background, RAW STORY has found.

    Although the original url for the Website was to be http://www.murthalied.com, a few days ago, one of the site’s founders, retired Navy Captain Larry Bailey, purchased a new url at BootMurtha.com. Bailey served as president of Vietnam Veterans For The Truth, which attacked 2004 Democratic Presidential candidate Senator John Kerry’s military record, on the heels of the more well-known Swift Boat Veterans For Truth.

    (…)

    Expose those involved

    Sean-Paul Kelley, editor of The Agonist, a community blog online since September of 2002, was one of the first to “track down and investigate and expose those involved in this enterprise,” with the help of his readers and fellow bloggers.

    Kelley’s post They’re Gonna Swiftboat Murtha contained an email address and picture for Amanda P. Doss, the site’s manager, along with information about her past work and connections.

    “The person who set up the site is one Amanda P. Doss, and a quick google search turns up this site: http://www.operationstreetcorner.com, which is a wonderful site, as Billy found out, dedicated to: “The Vietnam Veterans’ Grassroots Campaign Against John Kerry and Jane Fonda, traitors to our country,” wrote Kelley.

    Earlier today, Doss fired back by posting some of the emails she received which she characterized as “hateful and even threatening.”…

    …Bailey was surprised when informed by RAW STORY that Doss went live with the site, but though he doesn’t want to detract from the intended purpose of the site, he understood why Doss went ahead, since she was very upset with some of the emails she had received.

    Liberal bloggers respond

    “I don’t regret putting her email address in my post because her email address was widely available,” Sean-Paul Kelley told RAW STORY. “What I regret was that people used her email to send her nasty comments instead of trying to engage her in a substantive debate.”

    In fact, personal information about someone connected to Doss was posted by one Agonist reader, and Kelley immediately deleted it…

    link

  • Brawlin_Dem

    Looking at most of what she has said, she has no issues with stretching the truth. I’d like proof that those emails came because of this site and that they are, in fact, even real.

    Once you hold the light up to her, you’ll see that she’s full of it. Don’t forget, she said she designed sites for Dems. Where are those sites? My guess is that they don’t exist.

  • ChimpCoulter

    I am new here at this community. However, I wanted to thank everyone for the info on who is behind this hateful smear campaign of John Murtha. This subject has been bothering me for the past month.

    This morning I wrote an eamil to Diana Irey and the daycare center who employed Amanda Doss to express my deep concern about there affiliation with such a mean-spirited campaign to smear a patriotic veteran, John Murtha. My emails were professional in tone. I believe it is very important for all of us to speak out about this travesty.
    I have no desire to debate with Doss. I have no reason to send hateful emails, but I did feel compelled to express to Irey and the daycare center how sad it is that they support this type of smear of a great man.

  • zenseeker

    This is my first post here and I live in the 50th district and will try to help anyway I can.

    I also wrote a response about the need for us to face the truth about what the Vietnam war was all about. I don’t know if it will help or hurt for the truth can be painful and this might not be the right time. But when is the right time, if not now. Here is the post as I have it in my diary and don’t yet know how to direct you there withoug reposting.

    Hello Mr. Chopra, living in San Diego, I have read your books and your writings are not as balanced and harmonious as you might think, but overall well-meaning and thought provoking; but on this occasion, in regards to your remarks about “Vietnamese”, I have to respond and to also clarify about the “Vietnam war” in general as posted at my website http://zenwire.com that I designed for people to vote for the truthiest news.

    You said:
    “If I had been invited to Camp David with Mr. Bush, I would have given my invitation to former Defense Secretary Robert S. McNamara, the architect of the war in Vietnam. What doomed us in that conflict, Mr. McNamara now believes, is that we knew almost nothing about our enemy, the North Vietnamese.
    We didn’t know how they thought or what they wanted. The whole enterprise of the war was wrapped up in a monolithic idea – “defeating Communism around the world” – just as the present war is wrapped up in defeating global terrorism. Nobody looked closer and tried to understand the people on the other side.”

    I was born in Saigon in 1965, and when my Vietnamese parents fled the country on April 20th, 1975 and brought our entire family here, first to Camp Pendleton then to San Diego, and ever since, I have seen America, my country, changed and realized for the worse, right before my eyes. The idealism and foundation that I was taught and aspire to since elementary through UCSD is no longer clear or absolute as I once thought or held dear. Even the very question and nature about the “Vietnam war” and what it was all about is being re-written and redefined as we speak. This is why I want to clarify this issue with you in regards to your comments quoting McNamara’s about the “Vietnamese” and them being “our enemy”. It is this overall perception and casual categorization of the term “our enemy” that I want to clarify and specify before it gets muted and muddied. Who won, who lost, who could have won is being re-drawn and reshaped as if history is a piece of clay for the architects of power to playfully sculpt in a contest to see who can artistically express their specific vision of reality first, given four plus years. This, of course is totally and at the core: American, the pursuit and realization of your specific dream, any and all your dreams if you want, at any costs, if only you have enough will. It all comes down to will power! Ki! For as Napoleon Hill so aptly puts it: “thoughts are things”, and it does not matter how selfish those thoughts can be either, or how perverted or how one sided, it does not matter, you should not constrain yourself by holding back your deepest desires; if you can dream it, you can realize it, the grander the better, the more people it affects and governs, the more territory it encompasses it, more power, points and fame to you.

    Back to Vietnam, if anyone of us would take just a few minutes and google and do a little conscientious research about the “Vietnam war”, you would quickly find out that the war was manufactured and that the Vietnamese never attacked us first. They never tried to invade us, or steal our oil or fly planes into us. They never had a religion or a God that was better or came before our God or had multiple Gods. They just wanted to be free: from the Chinese, the Japanese, and from the French… and from us! Just like we all want to be free.
    Barbara Tuchman puts it best:
    “Americans were always talking about freedom from Communism, whereas the freedom that the mass of Vietnamese wanted was freedom from their exploiters, both French and indigenous. The assumption that humanity at large shared the democratic Western idea of freedom was an American delusion. “The freedom we cherish and defend in Europe,” stated President Eisenhower on taking office, “is no different than the freedom that is imperiled in Asia.” He was mistaken. Humanity may have common ground, but needs and aspirations vary according to circumstances.”
    And as Arthur Silber describe the likely sourse and origin of this pervading attitude:
    “Western civilization, more particularly the United States, constitutes the highest point of possible human development. It is only “freedom” and “democracy” as practiced in the West that can guarantee a future of peace. (Never mind the West’s uninterrupted history of warfare within its own ranks, and never mind the West’s unending, centuries-long interference with the rest of the world.) The West has the answer to successful human life. Since it does, and because certain elements in the rest of the world have now chosen to attack us on our own ground (and never mind that we have invaded and ruled over vast portions of the rest of the world since time immemorial), we must enlighten those benighted portions of the globe in our defense. Our chosen method of enlightenment is brute military force, to be deployed even against countries that did not threaten us. The lack of a genuine threat is no argument against spreading our version of “civilization,” for our mission is grounded not only in self-defense: it is also a moral mission. Our success and our “peace” directly correlates to our virtue. Those countries and those civilizations that do not enjoy the same success and peace are without virtue. In the most extreme (and, one could argue, most consistent) version of this tale, non-Western parts of the world are less than human — and they are subhuman by choice. They are immoral, and sometimes even evil. Since we represent the good and they represent the evil, we are surely entitled to improve them, by invasion and bombing if necessary. If they do not threaten us today, they might at some indeterminate time in the future. And while we might kill many innocent civilians in our campaign of civilization, those who survive will be infinitely better off than they would have been otherwise. Besides, how “innocent” can any of them be — since they are members of inferior, less than fully human civilizations, and since they are so by choice?” Arthur Silber goes on to say:
    “It is this belief, together with the entire Western perspective to which it is connected, that was imperiled by our ignominious defeat in Vietnam. And it is the same belief and perspective that is now so threatened by the Iraq catastrophe.
    You can see the desperation the hawks experience when facing this challenge to their worldview in any number of articles. As just one example, consider my examination of a Mark Steyn column from a few years ago, in an essay entitled, “They Are the Damned.” In his profoundly dishonest attack on John Kerry, Steyn gives away his much deeper concern right here: “The only relevant lesson from Vietnam is this: then, as now, it was not possible for the enemy to achieve military victory over the US; their only hope was that America would, in effect, defeat itself.” He the continues:
    ” Steyn and many other hawks thus try to shift the blame for failure entirely onto those who criticized or even questioned our involvement in Vietnam. In this view, failure cannot possibly be the result of a basic error in our own actions and policies: the fault must lie with those who dare to question the innate superiority of America, and those who suggest that we are not preordained to remake the world in our image. In this way, the hawks’ belief that the West and America in particular embody the culminating point of human history remains intact. Put it another way: no other country and no one else at all can ever defeat the United States. Only we can defeat ourselves — which is precisely what Steyn himself says. It should be obvious how this leads into a messianic conception of the United States’ role in human affairs: we are gods on earth — or at least God’s representatives on earth — here to bring enlightenment to the inferior cultures and peoples who surround us. This conception of ourselves is not only dangerously wrong, but dangerously destructive and brutal: if we and only we have the key to humanity’s future, then what are the deaths of tens or hundreds of thousands of inferior people — or even the deaths of millions? If the world is to be saved, no price is too great and no pile of corpses, no matter how high, should deter us from our mission…Like Kennedy, Johnson believed that to lose South Vietnam would be to lose the White House. It would mean a destructive debate, he was later to say, that would “shatter my Presidency, kill my Administration, and damage our democracy.” The loss of China, he said, which had led to the rise of Joe McCarthy, was “chickenshit compared with what might happen if we lost Vietnam.” Robert Kennedy would be out in front telling everyone that “I was a coward, an unmanly man, a man without a spine.” Worse, as soon as United States weakness was perceived by Moscow and Peking, they would move to “expand their control over the vacuum of power we would leave behind us … and so would begin World War III.” He was as sure of this “as nearly as anyone can be certain of anything.” No one is so sure of his premises as the man who knows too little.

    The purpose of the war was not gain or national defense. It would have been a simpler matter had it been either, for it is easier to finish a war by conquest of territory or by destruction of the enemy’s forces and resources than it is to establish a principle by superior force and call it victory. America’s purpose was to demonstrate her intent and her capacity to stop Communism in a framework of preserving an artificially created, inadequately motivated and not very viable state. The nature of the society we were upholding was an inherent flaw in the case, and despite all efforts at “nation-building,” it did not essentially change.

    In the illusion of omnipotence, American policy-makers took it for granted that on a given aim, especially in Asia, American will could be made to prevail.This assumption came from the can-do character of a self-created nation and from the sense of competence and superpower derived from World War II. If this was “arrogance of power,” in Senator Fulbright’s phrase, it was not so much the fatal hubris and over-extension that defeated Athens and Napoleon, and in the 20th century Germany and Japan, as it was failure to understand that problems and conflicts exist among other peoples that are not soluble by the application of American force or American techniques or even American goodwill. “Nation-building” was the most presumptuous of the illusions. Settlers of the North American continent had built a nation from Plymouth Rock to Valley Forge to the fulfilled frontier, yet failed to learn from their success that elsewhere, too, only the inhabitants can make the process work.

    Wooden-headedness, the “Don’t-confuse-me-with-the-facts” habit, is a universal folly never more conspicuous than at upper levels of Washington with respect to Vietnam. Its grossest fault was underestimation of North Vietnam’s commitment to its goal. Enemy motivation was a missing element in American calculations, and Washington could therefore ignore all the evidence of nationalist fervor and of the passion for independence which as early as 1945 Hanoi had declared “no human force can any longer restrain.” Washington could ignore General Leclerc’s prediction that conquest would take half a million men and “Even then it could not be done.” It could ignore the demonstration of elan and capacity that won victory over a French army with modern weapons at Dien Bien Phu, and all the continuing evidence thereafter.

    American refusal to take the enemy’s grim will and capacity into account has been explained by those responsible on the ground of ignorance of Vietnam’s history, traditions and national character: there were “no experts available,” in the words of one high-ranking official. But the longevity of Vietnamese resistance to foreign rule could have been learned from any history book on Indochina. Attentive consultation with French administrators whose official lives had been spent in Vietnam would have made up for the lack of American expertise. Even superficial American acquaintance with the area, when it began to supply reports, provided creditable information. Not ignorance, but refusal to credit the evidence and, more fundamentally, refusal to grant stature and fixed purpose to a “fourth-rate” Asiatic country were the determining factors, much as in the case of the British attitude toward the American colonies. The irony of history is inexorable.

    Persistence in error is the problem. Practitioners of government continue down the wrong road as if in thrall to some Merlin with magic power to direct their steps. There are Merlins in early literature to explain human aberration, but freedom of choice does exist–unless we accept the Freudian unconscious as the new Merlin. Rulers will justify a bad or wrong decision on the ground, as a historian and partisan wrote of John F. Kennedy, that “He had no choice,” but no matter how equal two alternatives may appear, there is always freedom of choice to change or desist from a counter-productive course if the policy-maker has the moral courage to exercise it. He is not a fated creature blown by the whims of Homeric gods. Yet to recognize error, to cut losses, to alter course, is the most repugnant option in government…For a chief of state, admitting error is almost out of the question. The American misfortune in the Vietnam period was to have had Presidents who lacked the self-confidence for the grand withdrawal. We come back again to Burke: “Magnanimity in politics is not seldom the truest wisdom, and a great Empire and little minds go ill together.” The test comes in recognizing when persistence in error has become self-damaging. For our political leaders, in terms of the methodology they bring to bear on questions of foreign policy, it is as if the United States is a country without a history. In this respect, they are like the most dangerous of nihilist revolutionaries: they believe they can make the entire world anew, writing on a blank slate. But when you completely disregard the realities of history and culture, when you set aside facts and the complexities of men and the societies they create, you will achieve only what such revolutionaries have always achieved: destruction. Tragically for all of us, and for the world, they have failed to learn that lesson as well.” As Arthur Silber so eloquently concludes.

    For me, being American and Vietnamese, it took a long time to even begin the process of understanding who won and who lost, black or white, right or wrong, for I can see it from both sides and had to come to terms with it both. And when I did finally figured it out, I realize, in actuallity: there was no winner…no one can win in such a war. 3 millions Vietnamese dead and 55,000+ drafted dead, not even counting the wounded and deformed and scarred for life. There was no winners here. How can there be? You can only win or lose if you have something to gain…, either in material, physical or mental form. So if you feel like you have to win or feel like winning, in such a calamity, then it reveals how elastic your moral compass can be. On memorial days, we all mourn for the people we love, we miss their presense, their thoughts, ideas and imperfections….

    That being said, we should all call the “Vietnam War” for what it really was and is. A mistake! A selfish action gone wrong. A busted flush draw! Played and gambled with peoples lives and kids, and for what? For someone’s specific vision of their reality that they are trying to realize. For the record books?

    We never cut and ran from Vietnam. We did our best to kill 3 million of them and they kept on coming. We tried to leave sooner, if only we did not have to worry what our neighbors might say! We stopped because we could not unwontingly kill, maim and torture any longer. We stopped because our consciense finally got the better of us. We stopped because we finally had the courage to own up to our mistake and admit we were wrong.

    If you are on a police raid and you busted in the wrong house and killed half the occupants and then realized it was the wrong house, do you stop and back out and admit you made a mistake, or do you think it is better just to kill the rest of the family and burn down the damn house and cover it up, leaving no evidence or witnesses. Using that logic, if we stayed in Vietnam, and killed another 3 million or so, then use nukes to kill the other 50 million that are left (mostly women, children and elders), and then we would have won that war and own a radioactive piece of real estate that is completely devoid of life. Was it worth it?

    Finally, we should be sorry for our actions. We don’t have to apolozige to the Vietnamese or be formal about it. Their government is just as corrupt if not more! But the sooner we are sorry for the Vietnam war, then the sooner we will see the Iraq war for what it is. Another mistake! And if we can do this before 3 million more lives are lost, then we should consider that a collective improvement on our part, because this time, we did learn from history and finally had the guts to own up and did what was right when only 10,000 lives were lost. We are all human beings, regardless of our color or religion.

    zenseeker
    empty your mind and see through the illusion

  • Brawlin_Dem

    I did a little more digging and found her name mentioned in a World Net Daily article. She’s very connected to the hardcore right-wing. It throws even more doubt on her story that she has designed sites for Dems.

    Here’s some of the stuff I found. I searched “Amanda Prewett.” The article below has a lot of good info on her.

    http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42810

  • Anonymous

    to search is “Carol Gell Crowley.” She has been Doss’s partner in crime on several occasions. She’s in as deep with the Swift Liars as Doss is, maybe more. A rudimentary search proves it. You’ll have to cut and paste the url below. For some reason it won’t post it as a link.

    link

    PLEASE USE HTML TAGS ON URLs TO CREATE LINKS.

    Once you see who Gell-Crowley is hooked up with, you begin to see exactly what kind of person Doss is. Connect the dots and you see what they are all about.

  • Escher Sketch

    This plant only flourishes when its roots are deeply covered.

    Good spadework.

  • Mrs Panstreppon

    Dear Ms. Amanda P. Doss:

    I learned about your involvement with the Murtha Lied, Boot Murtha and Operation Street Corner websites through an article in Raw Story via the TPM Muckraker.

    On Operation Street Corner, you urge visitors to donate to:

    Vietnam Vets for the Truth
    PO Box 458
    Nash,TX 75569

    Vietnam Vets for the Truth is not registered with the IRS as a tax-exempt organization nor does Vietnam Vets for the Truth appear to be registered in any state.

    Is Vietnam Veterans for the Truth registered under a different name with the IRS? If not, would you mind terribly telling me what the hell you did with the donations sent to you by well-meaning and sincere people?

    You apparently operate a business named “Web Design By Amanda’s Pages”. I cannot find the corporate registration for that business either in Lexis-Nexis.

    You are declaring all of your taxable income, dear, aren’t you?

    Sincerely,

    Mrs. Panstreppon, a very polite liberal

  • steppedonapoptop

    Larry Bailey and Terry Garlock were the founders of kerrylied.com and responsible for the rally held in Washington D.C. Sept. 12, 2004. The ‘press release’ can be found here. If you open it in MS Word and turn on the “track changes” review function, you can see all of their efforts. The site doesn’t seem to have been updated since October 2005. His article in the Atlanta Journal Constitution on January 29, 2004 (archived), was his best claim to fame. Garlock’s big beef with Kerry turns on Kerry’s occupation of the far left with Jane Fonda and aiding the enemy during the Viet Nam War.

    Military Connections wrote an article on February 26, 2004 that mentions both Garlock and Ted Sampley.

    The most interesting thing I found about kerrylied.com is from whois:

    Domain Name: KERRYLIED.COM
    Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, LLC.
    Whois Server: whois.networksolutions.com
    Referral URL: http://www.networksolutions.com
    Name Server: NS0.REFLECTED.NET
    Name Server: NS1.REFLECTED.NET
    Status: REGISTRAR-LOCK
    Updated Date: 19-jun-2006
    Creation Date: 10-mar-2004
    Expiration Date: 10-mar-2007

    Hope this helps. My first post here.

  • steppedonapoptop

    Good to see you here, too. Amanda’s life just got tougher.

  • Mrs Panstreppon

    TEXAS FICTITIOUS BUSINESS NAMES

    DBA Name: GLEN’S CUSTOM SHOP

    Business Address:
    706 FM 991
    TEXARKANA, TX 75501-8887

    Telephone: (903) 831-4753

    Type: LICENSE

    Filing Date: 2/13/2004

    County: BOWIE

    Business Description: NONCLASSIFIED ESTABLISHMENTS

    Contact Name: GLEN PREWETT

  • Mrs Panstreppon

    Oops! Contributions to Vietnam Vets for the Truth are not tax-deductible, according to the Operation Street Corner website. I missed the little blurb at the bottom.

    Larry Bailey, president and treasurer, registered Vietnam Vets for the Truth, LLC in Delaware on 4/19/04, interestingly enough. So much for spontaneous grass roots movements. Vietnam Vets for the Truth LLC was a registered PAC and the address was Box 49, Mount Vernon, VA 22121.

    Vietnam Vets for the Truth, LLC received approval on May 3, 2005 from the FEC to terminate as a PAC.

    Operation Street Corner still solicits donations for Vietnam Vets for the Truth on its website and directs donors to mail their contributions to PO Box 458, Nash, TX 75569.

    What gives, Ms. Doss?

  • Mark

    look at the recent blog with links here and also look at the first comment and it’s becoming an epidemic.

  • candy

    before people who disagree are banned and their comments removed.

  • canuck

    did lose her father in Viet Nam? That can have very unfortunate consequences to a surviving family member. Grief can cause irrational behaviour and faulty thought processes which sometimes doesn’t lessen with the passage of time.

    Some veterans felt that Kerry betrayed them, but others saw his stand as a sign of strength. Mine is not to question the opinions of veterans, the difference in the two interpretations of the Winter Soldier Investigation lead to polarization of the voters. Kerry did not have universal appeal to the electorate, making him not an ideal Presidential candidate, nor will he the second time if he decides to run again.

    No one, however, deserves the treatment Swiftboaters delivered. It was an ugly war and swiftboaters are among the ugliest of them. Murtha appears to be innocent and without Kerry’s controversial history.

    So if you discover Amanda’s father didn’t die in Viet Nam, and this is a lie, by all means, carry on. Should you find she is telling the truth about her Father that doesn’t mean I sanction what swiftboaters do, but it would lend some perspective about how divided this war made America. Old hates die hard and sometimes never. She would then just be a very sick person–perhaps swiftboaters are just a bunch of very ill people who need to be challenged for not being in touch with reality?

  • Anonymous

    googling “larry bailey” & “amanda prewett doss” finds a blog post at smalltownveteran (pasted below) that seems to lay out the plan pretty well.

    the most interesting part is the connection with the ‘iowa presidential watch’ campaign
    link
    link
    this is a serious republican party link eg the advisory board includes ‘Richard Schwarm Former Iowa Republican Party Chairman, Past-president of Iowa College Republicans when he became good friends with Karl Rove…’

    it also mentions ‘seed money’ from somebody called ‘Jack Peevy’ – google turns up a few anti-Kerry blog posts from a retd. army colonel of this name in Alpharetta

    the following is quoted from the post at link and scroll down… and check the disclaimer right at the end ;) it’s the blog of a grumpy veteran who has previously posted carol gell crowley’s memories of her father (btw canuck – ms doss’s father is apparently alive and well, and i don’t think she claims he isn’t… but her friend ms crowley is the daughter of a sgt jack gell who was killed in vietnam)

    edit: the mojowire blog and others already found this, along with Vietnam Veterans for the Truth’s federal election commission filing (their public accounts) which may be worth looking at.

    ——

    Operation Street Corner, Vietnam Veterans for the Truth and Larry Bailey.

    Sitrep (Situation Report) from the frontlines in Pennsylvania’s 12th district.

    Larry Bailey has a reputation. It’s a reputation for getting things done, even if he has to do them himself. Working with other Veterans and activists during the last election cycle he had a very noticeable impact on those elections. How did he do it? He went to the people. He went to the streets. He’s now doing the same thing in Congressman Murtha’s home district. Although he is not a part of the Irey campaign, he maintains regular contact with them in order to ensure that he makes the most efficient use of the time and resources available.

    This is what Larry Bailey did during the last election cycle: link I understand that Mike Bradley of Vietnam Veteran’s for the Truth is also supporting Larry in his efforts. This is what they did during the last election cycle: http://www.kerrylied.com/ Although these organizations are no longer active today, Mr. Bailey and Mr. Bradley have joined forces with Iowa Presidential Watch http://www.iowapresidentialwatch.com/ and are working together to do much the same thing in Mr. Murtha’s 12th PA district as they did in 2004 on a national level.

    Consider the impact that they had during the national elections in 2004 and consider what kind of impact they’ll have by focusing their efforts on a single Congressional district. That’s pretty exciting, if you ask me! Well, even if you don’t ask me, I still think that’s pretty exciting. It proves that one person can make a difference. It proves that all of us, as individual American citizens, still possess the power to change the direction of an entire nation. All that we have to do is to get off our butts and do something to change it.

    Do you want to see Murtha gone? Do you want to see him defeated in November? First, write a check to “Vets for the Truth” and put it in the mail. (The donations will be covered under Iowa Presidential Watch’s 527 status.) Do it today. Do it now. Then ship the items requested below to the address enclosed. After that, just pass the word.

    Now, here’s what Larry had to say about the current situation in Pennsylvania.

    “Folks, here’s a general outline of where we are at the moment, as best as I can relate Fundraising: several different lists are being solicited; nothing in hand as yet other than Jack Peevy’s generous seed-money. We need money NOW so we can send (people) from across the USA to help District 12 OSC volunteers get started. I’d like to get four or five of these folks up there within 30 days, unless you local folks can get started on your own!

    COMMENT: We MUST raise several thousand dollars for travel, copier rental, and other miscellaneous expenses. We should stockpile glue sticks, bumper stickers, yard signs, and the like so volunteers don’t have to look for those things on their own.

    Contributions should be mailed to me at 103 Pamlico Place; Chocowinity, NC 27817. Checks should be made payable to “Vets for the Truth.” Send out our message to your contact lists.

    I sent an e-mail to Linda Eddy in Iowa asking for her help in providing cartoon satire. She’s GOOD, and she helped us against Kerry in ’04. You can check out her work at http://www.iowapresidentialwatch.com/ Ultimately, I’d like to pay her for her work. Once again, see Fundraising above.

    Organizational: I’m setting up a “Vets for the Truth” bank account this morning at First South Bank’s local branch. Later today or early tomorrow I’ll get started on the PayPal capability. I’ll provide info to those who need to know.

    Administrative: First item of business is to get our website up and running in a credible way. Amanda Prewett Doss of Texarkana, TX, who handled the ’04 campaign, has been engaged to be our website manager, and she has already purchased our domain name http://www.murthalied.com/ What we need to do now it to develop the download folder from which our volunteers will obtain the flyers that they will post on their display boards. PLEASE keep your eyes open for ANYTHING that could be used (to defeat) Murtha. For the time being, send what you find to me; I have asked a very literate friend to stand by to extract the most salient quotes for posting in large font on our display boards.

    Listen, folks! Operation Street Corner will WORK, and I think its effect will, after the election, be measurable. We just need to start small and build to a crescendo in October and culminate in a Rally or some major event just before the election.”

    Larry Bailey can be contacted via email here: murthalied@cox.net

    To support Mrs. Diana Irey, Murtha’s experienced and able opponent, go here: http://www.irey.com/

    CORRECTION: I have just been informed that Mr Bradley and Larry Bailey have nothing to do with the Irey Campaign. I do apologize for the mistake.

    - Bones on 6/23/06 @ 6:10 AM

  • billy68

    the (public domain) mailing address of ‘veterans for the truth’ – the organisation ‘run’ by Mike Bradley but whose fundraising is apparently ‘covered’ by iowapresidentialwatch’s tax status, is the same one that Larry Bailey (publicly) gives as his here – in connection to the Board of Directors of ‘Naval training ship CSS Neuse’. President of the board – Ted Sampley. You’d think they’d all be sick of the sight of each other by now ;)

    Google map it at Veterans for Golf

  • billy68

    this blog post connects OSC/Vets for Truth to Armed Services Committee Chairman Duncan Hunter (R – Calif), who drafted the GOP’s stop-Murtha resolution, via Tony Snesko, OSC pioneer and VFT member – and apparently events organiser for Hunter and husband of Hunter’s secretary.

  • Brawlin_Dem

    And if you do a check of NewsMeat’s site, you’ll see that Jack Peevy donated money to “Vietnam Vets For The Truth LLC.”

    http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?st=GA&last=peevy&first=jack

  • shellius

    I didn’t disclose to Amanda that I was a liberal podcaster/blogger, ( http://www.citizenagainstlies.com ) and she pawned off my email to someone else. Larry Bailey. This is what he wrote to me:
    —–

    Shelly,

    I’m president of Vets for the Truth, successor to Vietnam Vets for the Truth. Amanda Prewett Doss forwarded your e-mail.

    May I ask you to provide me with some of your work? I certainly don’t mind being interviewed.

    Larry Bailey
    Chocowinity, NC

    His email: larryklr@cox.net
    ——–

    FWIW, This is what I had written to Amanda:

    To: amandapdoss@yahoo.com

    What are you planning to do against Jack Murtha this year or next? I’m interested because I do a political podcast. I’d like to interview you if you have time.

    —-

    Well, I guess I won’t be interviewing either one of them, but I did get an email address for Mr. Bailey, not that I’ll be using it.

    Shelly

  • Mark

    Corrections and clarifications for June 28

    South Florida Sun-Sentinel
    Correction: An article in Sunday’s editions misinterpreted a comment from U.S. Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., at a town hall meeting in North Miami on Saturday. In his speech, Murtha said U.S. credibility was suffering because of continued U.S. military presence in Iraq ,and the perception that the U.S. is an occupying force. Murtha was citing a recent poll, by the Pew Global Attitudes Project, that indicates a greater percentage of people in 10 of 14 foreign countries consider the U.S. in Iraq a greater danger to world peace than any threats posed by Iran or North Korea.

    (Interestingly the blog link in my original post has a link back to this thread)

  • chancuff

    This story has taken so many twists and turns, if you blink, you’ll miss the next turn.

    New developments are being being tracked at this news site:

    http://theinfozone.net/JohnMurtha.html

    A notable development: The original Sun-Sentinel’s article written by Elizabeth Baier, has been removed from their site and replaced with Ms. Baier’s revised story.

    If any of you bookmarked Sun-Sentinel’s original article that has made them famous for their “the shot heard around the world”, check your bookmarked page now. The significance of this is rather overwhelming. This weeks’ hysteria, and subsequent retractions and corrections is over something that “never happened”.

    Interesting to note, it retains the original publication date June 25, 2006, and The Sun-Sentinel did not note this story is a revision.

    We here at “The World of Journalism Is Flat, Too” tip our hats to all those who have taken up our cause that we began at 12:03AM Monday, June 26, 2006, when I sent an email complaining about Elizabeth’s article to 39 staff members at the Sun-Sentinel and 70+ staff members at the Arizona Star

    Cliff Hancuff
    The World of Journalism is Flat, Too

  • ChimpCoulter

    This woman Diana Irey is delusional & full of it, but here is her lame email response…

    Dear xxxx
    I’m not sure who Amanda Doss is or what you are referring to in the way of a smear campaign.
    I am running a campaign to retire Mr. Murtha.
    You are welcome to join if you so desire.
    Please be a little more specific when you tie me to someone I do not know.

    Diana Irey

  • Anonymous

    The problem of John Murtha is not a matter for Swiftboat Veterans.
    It is a United States Marine Problem. Dealing with the Murtha problem
    has been long overdue. It is said that Marines take care of their own.
    The time has come for Marines to take care of John Murtha.

    Please read and try to understand what is written below:

    John Murtha was the S-2 Intelligence Officer for the First Battalion First Marines in Vietnam perhaps the best way to fully comprehend John Murtha’s war hero status would be to let the men who served under him speak their truth about John Murtha and his disgraced unit the First Battalion, First Marines.

    ( The testimony below came from John Kerry’s Winter Soldier hearings. )

    MODERATOR. All right. Mr. Camile, you were in Artillery, FO. You were attached to the 1st Battalion, 12th Marines.
    CAMILE. I was in the 1st Battalion, 11th Marines, attached to the 1st Battalion, 1st Marines.
    MODERATOR. You have some testimony here on the burning of villages, cutting off of ears, cutting off of heads, calling in artillery on villages for games, women raped, napalm on villages, all sorts of testimony of crimes against the civilians. Could you go into just a few of these to let the people know how you treat the Vietnamese civilian?
    CAMILE. All right. The calling in of artillery for games, the way it was worked would be the mortar forward observers would pick out certain houses in villages, friendly villages, and the mortar forward observers would call in mortars until they destroyed that house and then the artillery forward observer would call in artillery until he destroyed another house and whoever used the least amount of artillery, they won. And when we got back someone would have to buy someone else beers. The cutting off of heads–on Operation Stone–there was a Lt. Colonel there and two people had their heads cut off and put on stakes and stuck in the middle of the field. And we were notified that there was press covering the operation and that we couldn’t do that anymore. Before we went out on the operation we were told not to waste our heat tablets on food but to save them for the villages because we were going to destroy all the villages and we didn’t give the people any time to get out of the villages. We just went in and burned them and if people were in the villages yelling and screaming, we didn’t help them. We just burned the houses as we went.
    MODERATOR. Why did you use the heat tabs? Did you just light off the villages with matches or just throw the heat tabs in so it would keep burning?
    CAMILE. We’d throw the heat tabs in because it was quicker and they’d keep burning. They couldn’t put the heat tabs out. We’d throw them on top of the houses. People cut off ears and when they’d come back in off of an operation you’d make deals before you’d go out and like for every ear you cut off someone would buy you two beers, so people cut off ears. The torturing of prisoners was done with beatings and I saw one case where there were two prisoners. One prisoner was staked out on the ground and he was cut open while he was alive and part of his insides were cut out and they told the other prisoner if he didn’t tell them what they wanted to know they would kill him. And I don’t know what he said because he spoke in Vietnamese but then they killed him after that anyway.
    MODERATOR. Were these primarily civilians or do you believe that they were, or do you know that they were actual NVA?
    CAMILE. The way that we distinguished between civilians and VC, VC had weapons and civilians didn’t and anybody that was dead was considered a VC. If you killed someone they said, “How do you know he’s a VC?” and the general reply would be, “He’s dead,” and that was sufficient. When we went through the villages and searched people the women would have all their clothes taken off and the men would use their penises to probe them to make sure they didn’t have anything hidden anywhere and this was raping but it was done as searching.
    MODERATOR. As searching. Were there officers present there?
    CAMILE. Yes, there were.
    MODERATOR. Was this on a company level?
    CAMILE. Company level.
    MODERATOR. The company commander was around when this happened?
    CAMILE. Right.
    MODERATOR. Did he approve of it or did he look the other way or…
    CAMILE. He never said not to or never said anything about it. The main thing was that if an operation was covered by the press there were certain things we weren’t supposed to do, but if there was no press there, it was okay. I saw one case where a woman was shot by a sniper, one of our snipers. When we got up to her she was asking for water. And the Lt. said to kill her. So he ripped off her clothes, they stabbed her in both breasts, they spread-eagled her and shoved an E- tool up her vagina, an entrenching tool, and she was still asking for water. And then they took that out and they used a tree limb and then she was shot.
    MODERATOR. Did the men in your outfit, or when you witnessed these things, did they seem to think that it was all right to do anything to the Vietnamese?
    CAMILE. It wasn’t like they were humans. We were conditioned to believe that this was for the good of the nation, the good of our country, and anything we did was okay. And when you shot someone you didn’t think you were shooting at a human. They were a gook or a Commie and it was okay. And anything you did to them was okay because, like, they would tell you they’d do it to you if they had the chance.
    MODERATOR. This was told you all through your training, then, in boot camp, in advanced training, and so forth and it was followed on then, right on through it?
    CAMILE. Definitely.
    MODERATOR. Mr. Campbell, you were, I believe, in the same unit that Mr. Camile was. There was a period of perhaps two months separating the time that he left and the time you came. Was this same unit type policy, was this carried on?
    CAMPBELL. Some of the policy was not carried on because of an incident that happened in Quang Tri Province that Scott Camile witnessed and there was a big stink about it. There was some kind of investigation into it and I heard about it when I got to Nam and all the guys that were there before me talked about it and things were kind of cooled down and so a lot of this stuff when I first got there wasn’t actually carried out. Bravo Company was to cool it for a while. The whole Battalion, actually, because we had a bad mark against us from the incident previous to the time I got there.
    MODERATOR. One more question on that. The training–What did you consider the Vietnamese? Were they equal with you?
    CAMPBELL. The Vietnamese were gooks. We didn’t just call the VC or the NVA gooks. All Vietnamese were gooks and they were slant eyes. They were zips. They were Orientals and they were inferior to us. We were Americans. We were the civilized people. We didn’t give a —— about those people.

    link ~ link added by editor

  • Man in the Middle

    Your first Agonist post is light on specifics, sir.

  • Escher Sketch

    Because this post constitutes only innuendo and guilt by association. You didn’t accuse Murtha of involvement, nor does your evidence as presented support that.

    Would this happen to be you over here, supporting “swift boat” style allegations about John Kerry?

    Robert Greer Says:
    May 28th, 2006 at 1:13 am

    Pamela,
    I can find it in my heart to forgive those Marines, but I would not support them if they tried to run for President of my country.

    The Boston Globe – June 6, 2003 — On Feb. 20, 1969, John Kerry earned his second Purple Heart after sustaining a shrapnel wound in his left thigh. According to a previously unreported Navy report on the battle, a two-boat patrol spotted three men on a riverbank who were wearing black pajamas and running and engaged them in a firefight. (snipping some more swiftboating of Kerry)

    Comment #10…

    Pamela Leavey Says:
    May 28th, 2006 at 1:38 am

    …You’re trolling in the wrong place — we already had enough of you here.

    … led me to another series of posts, including this

    The ( war hero ) then began to lead us into the direction of surrender, defeat and betrayal,
    as he did many years ago in his Vietnam War.
    I do not need a Swift Boat Veteran to make me realize that it would be a grave mistake
    to spend another $ 30,000,000 of my Democratic political contributions to defend the
    questionable war record of John Kerry.

    … in which you say that Kerry led America into the direction of surrender and defeat and betrayal – one assumes at least in part for the Winter Soldier hearings – which… correct me if I am mistaken, you are now relying on these transcripts as a source to imply that Murtha is somehow guilty of…?

  • Robert Greer

    The following is a list of United States Marine Corps Officers
    who stand accused of Attrocities and War Crimes in Vietnam in the
    month of February 1967, by Sgt Scott Camil, AKA Mr. Camile,
    a Forward Observer and Photo Intelligence Non Commissioned Officer
    who served under their command in the 1st Bn. 1st Marines,
    1st Marine Division.
    The additional information mentioned in the above post was presented
    by Mr.Scott Camile at John Kerry’s Winter Soldier Hearings in 1971.
    In his testimony Mr. Camile describes in detail the nature of attrocities and war
    crimes which Camile attributes to the 1st Bn 1st Marines.

    Operation Stone — February 10 through February 22, 1967
    1st Bn, 1st Marines, 1st Marine Division

    Regimental Commander Col Donald L. Mallory 1-28 February 1967
    Commander Col E. J. Radics 1-28 February 1967
    Executive Officer Lt Col G.E. Petro 1-28 February 1967
    S-1 Adjutant Capt R.V. Olson 1-28 February 1967
    S-2 Intelligence Major John P. Murtha 1-28 February 1967
    S-3 Major J.W. Andrews 1-28 February 1967
    S-4 Major J.I. Gatliff 1-28 February 1967
    Communications Officer Major C.H. Frazier 5-28 February 1967
    Air Laison Officer Major H.L Snider 1-28 February 1967
    Regimental Surgeon Lt F.X. Loeb 1-28 February 1967
    Commanding Officer Lt Colonel V. D. Bell Jr. 1-28 February 1967
    Regimental Chaplain Lt Cdr J.S. Jenner 1-28 February 1967
    Catholic Chaplain Lt J. E. Dorsey 1-28 February 1967

  • Escher Sketch

    than nasty hints and innuendo and “guilt by association” unless all you want to do is fling feces out of your monkey cage hoping a random chunk might stick.

    Over here is a lengthy dissertation by another wingnut that Kerry’s Winter Soldier investigations were tainted and falsified, a smear campaign against the US military; the comment section even contains allegations that they were directly funded by the GRU as a psy-op.

    But of course that was a rightwing mantra while Kerry was running for office; the instant that you can get more mileage out of them by declaring them credible and using them against another Administration target, they become – miracle of miracles – not GRU propaganda or a nasty liberal stab-in-the-back, but the Ten Commandments Themselves, graven upon living rock, their every indirect and tangential inference direct, concrete and damning proof of culpability.

    So I will ask you again, smear merchant – do you have a concrete and substantiated allegation of something? Has Murtha been “accused” by name of something?

    On a related note – you also appear to be the same Robert Greer who wrote this bizarre and incoherent screed posted in comments on the interview with Pamela Leavy – one of your previous interlocutors in my already-posted links – on Martini Republic.

    To Pamela Leavy, The Kerry Gatekeeper:
    *******************************
    I had a dream:
    In my dream
    John Kerry is elected President of the United States in 2008.
    Just seconds before his inaugeration on January 20, 2009,
    An assassin lurches forward out of the crowd
    At that very moment
    Kerry’s Vice President elect David Duke while attempting to free his
    white robe from entanglement in camera wires, trips.
    Falling in front of Kerry at that critical moment, Duke takes the full
    force of the assassins bullets.
    The assassin ironically turns out to be Cindy Sheehan bodyguard
    and lifetime sidekick of Hanoi John, Winter Soldier Wild Bill Perry.
    The assassin is subdued.
    A horrified Kerry cries out !
    Whyyyyyyyy, Beelzebub, Why? Those bullets were meant for Meeeeeeeeeeee !!!
    An angry crowd confronts Perry and asks. ” Wild Bill, why did you do this ?
    As always, Wild Bill responds honestly, ” Because John asked me to. ”
    A sobbing Kerry admonishes Wild Bill with a vengeance ” That is a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiie
    you bungling idiot ”
    A bewildered Perry attempts to reply. ” … but …. but … John …. yoooou said … ”
    With vim and viggah, Kerry speaks truth to Wild Bill. ” ….Aaaaaaaaye Seddddd,
    …………..after I am President, …. not before I am President ”
    The appeased crowd realizes that this was just a misunderstanding and disperses.
    The extremely generous Hanoi John forgives Wild Bill. ” I will overlook this Wild Bill
    …….. this time……….but only if you promise to make another attempt to help me
    acheive my destiny…. Affffffffter… I repeat Afffffffter…. I am President ”
    Wild Bill agrees and thanks Hanoi John for being merciful.

    (…)

    Semper Fi,
    From The Gatekeeper
    Robert Greer
    L 3/26 USMC VN’68

    Comment by Robert Greer — June 14, 2006 @ 5:39 pm

    To me, this leaks through your mild words in other posts loud and clear – but it was considerate of you to leave such a tangible trail of breadcrumbs as a demonstration for others of what exactly lies behind your reasonable tone and ostensibly “factual” posts.

  • Escher Sketch

    on the Operation Street Corner website itself no less.

    Kerry Lied Rally Pictures, Page 9

    September 12, 2004

    Upper Senate Park

    Washington, D.C.

    Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
    11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

    These Photos Were Taken By Robert Greer

    link

  • Robert Greer

    Oh Murtha, tell me how do you feel?
    You fought for your country
    for God and for war,
    now your heart tells you that can’t be real.
    So you tell me your story from beginning to end
    all the blood and the guts and the gore
    will you tell all the people
    ’bout the people you killed,
    not for God, but for country and war?
    Oh! Murtha, tell me what did your mother say,
    when you left those people out in the fields,
    rotting along with the hay?
    Did you show her your medals?
    Did you show her your guns?
    Did you show her the ears that you wore?
    Did you show her a picture of the people you killed
    not for God, but for country and war?
    Oh! Murtha, tell me why are you in this place?
    When you stood up for justice your country replied
    by throwing it back in your face.
    When you tell me your story
    are you making amends for all of the hatred you saw?
    Will you tell all the people about the people that cry out for God
    not for country or war?

    Written by: Mick Anderson

  • Escher Sketch

    You don’t do “replies” or respond when challenged.

    You aren’t a poster or a contributor per se – you’re a spigot.

  • Escher Sketch

    I’ll point out that you’ve posted three times and been challenged twice.

    You have produced a series of allegations that contain no reference to Murtha, and when challenged, a list of officers who served in a military unit and a propaganda song.

    In short – you’ve produced nothing.

  • Robert Greer

    I have produced a name
    My name is Robert Greer
    Your name is Escher Sketch
    In the real world
    You will always be remembered
    as Escher Sketch
    God bless you Escher Sketch

  • JustPlainDave

    …substituting cryptic pseudo-poetry for data is starting to get alarming.

    If it’s to have any redeeming qualities, one should at least aspire to haiku…

    “We declared war on terror, it’s not even a noun, so, good luck. After we defeat it, I’m sure we’ll take on that bastard ennui.” – Jon Stewart.

  • Robert Greer

    Eight loaded vinyl chloride
    High Gear on the brake
    Call Cooper

  • Escher Sketch

    I’ll take your blessing for whatever it’s worth. Perhaps it will get a library fine forgiven.

    In return for that – I will say your history of working with disabled veterans speaks of a better man than these putrid smears do.

    I really love where you’re going with that “you will always be remembered as Escher Sketch” schtick. Hoping to nettle me into identifying myself by pricking my ego, perhaps?

    As you seem more comfortable questioning peoples’ history than answering their questions, I’m sorry to not oblige you by providing a human target for you to dig dirt on. I know from your posting history that you’re well-geared-up for ad hominem attacks and cut-and-paste GOP boilerplate smears, and it’s stupid to fight on a field your opponent has prepared.

    I couldn’t care less if I, either the person or the pseudonym, achieves some sort of dubious low-grade secular immortality through my writings on the internet. Whatever mark I cared to make in this world I made elsewhere. As for yourself, it was your own choice to make daubs of monkey shit part of your written public history.

    I’m staying on you every time you post until you demonstrate that you can answer my request for concrete allegations, or until, as I suspect is likely, it is abundantly clear to all that you can’t.

  • Escher Sketch

    whose limericks stopped at line two.

  • Escher Sketch

    summer for smearers
    pre-election flopsweat beads
    monkey poo takes wing

  • Robert Greer

    “Because he swings so neatly through the trees,
    An Ape feels natural in the word trapeze.
    Why do we rarely see a chicken in the city?
    Because a chicken is a hick at heart.”
    A mother kangaroo gives her baby a bumpy ride.
    “That is the reason why, inside her pouch,
    her child is constantly exclaiming ‘Ouch!’”
    And what to do “when there’s a pig inside your spigot?”
    Why, “Be sensible, and take the obvious course,
    Which is to turn the spigot on full force.
    Sufficient pressure will, I think,
    Oblige the pig to flow into the sink.”

    by Richard Wilbur

  • Editor

    Asking for personal information is not allowed here.

  • Escher Sketch

    Robert Greer Says:
    May 31st, 2006 at 7:49 am
    fedup

    Stop worrying about how John Kerry will go down in history

    Think about your own history.

    You could be the first girl with the name “fedup” in a history book

    later…

    fedup Says:
    May 31st, 2006 at 9:15 am
    Robert,

    Would of responded to you sooner but I was busy trying to get my MILITARY ID renewed, my husband served for 20 years, and is a Vietnam Vet and fought in that war after Kerry protested and watched as 3 sailors got killed and 5 seriously wounded on his destroyer, 9 days before Christmas ‘72. He proudly supported John Kerry, because John Kerry and other brothers fought for him back then.

    I would rather go down in history with the name fedup, knowing that I fought for TRUTH and the honor of a veteran, then to go down in history with the name Robert Greer, who clung to lies just to win. Where is your conscience?

  • Escher Sketch

    I thought so. Beat it, maggot. Here’s a paper sack, pick your teeth out of the carpet on your way out.

  • Anonymous

    The echo chamber has destroyed your ability to think for yourself.

    - Rick
    “Free your mind, and your ass will follow” – George Clinton

  • JustPlainDave

    “We declared war on terror, it’s not even a noun, so, good luck. After we defeat it, I’m sure we’ll take on that bastard ennui.” – Jon Stewart.

  • Anonymous

    I believe “Ding Dong”
    …. Bob Greer, L 3/26 USMC VN’68

    It all comes down to Who do you believe?

    or

    Who do you believe in?

    Colonel Van “Ding Dong” Bell

    or

    Winter Soldiers like

    Scott “Dinky Dau” Camil,

    Professor Kenneth Campbell,

    Hanoi John Kerry, John Murtha

    or Patrick Murphy etc..etc….:

    Marine Col Van D. “Ding Dong” Bell is the Marine Lt Col who was the subject of Scott Camil’s (AKA Mr. Camile) testimony at John Kerry’s Winter Soldier Hearings

    Please read Col Bell’s story from Leatherneck Magazine

    Legend of the Corps

    Once Upon a Time in The Arizona

    Colonel Van D. Bell

    Story by Mike Fisher • Photo courtesy of the author

    The Arizona
    It was a bad place even for South Vietnam. The shallow graves of men littered the terrain. Sodden mists shrouded the landscape perpetually in the terrible heat of the dry season or the numbing cold of the monsoon. The ghosts of men lost and battles past seemed everywhere.

    From the base of Marble Mountain, an undulating plain sloped steadily if gradually upward. Far to the west and north, the Que Son Mountain Range rose, ringing the plain with its triple-canopied slopes of jungled wilderness. The Que Sons enclosed the plain, extending north and then east to the South China Sea, as well as pointing the long finger of ravine-pitted “Charlie” Ridge south and east to the same body of water.

    The terrain west of Marble Mountain appeared as uninhabited as a moonscape, but veterans knew better. They knew that small, brown men, hidden during daylight by a combination of brush, scrub, tunnels and caves, filled the area. These North Vietnamese soldiers had made the long, difficult trip down the Ho Chi Minh Trail from their native land. They came well-armed, -clothed and -trained, filled with patriotic beliefs and idealistic fervor. On their arms, many had tattooed: “Born in the North, To Die in the South.”

    They came to kill the Marines in The Arizona.

    Grunts
    We had flown south by helicopter from Phu Bai early that morning. Having completed Operation Virginia, a sweep along the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) during the previous two weeks, we had moved down Highway 9 from the then-deserted area surrounding Khe Sanh. Experiencing little enemy contact, we reached the Marine base at Phu Bai uneventfully. From there, we received orders to fly south to the Marble Mountain Air Facility just west of Da Nang. That brought us to the base of Marble Mountain, gateway to The Arizona.

    We were the 1st Battalion, First Marine Regiment, or 1/1 in Marine speak. One thousand strong, men and boys, from the city and the plow, black and white, brown and yellow, veteran and boot, we formed two columns leading west from Marble Mountain to the water point some 200 meters. Between the files of Marines ran the faint, dusty trace of Highway 4, heading west to the Que Son Mountains.

    “Ding Dong”
    At the van of the column stood our leader, Lieutenant Colonel Van D. Bell Jr. As always, he examined us with the steady, unblinking gaze of a warrior born, the patience of a wise father and the understanding of a Marine who had once stood in the ranks where we labored.

    LtCol Bell rarely spoke directly to the entire battalion. He preferred to confer privately or informally with his subordinates. But for those rare Marines who gave less than their best, LtCol Bell proved an intimidating foe. Conversely, toward those Marines willing to sacrifice for their Corps, his attitude and demeanor demonstrated respect. Formally, the world knew our leader as Lieutenant Colonel Van D. Bell. To his Marines, he was known affectionately as “Ding Dong.”

    Walking the Walk
    We knew Ding Dong through experience and reputation. Because of the vast gulf that existed between officers and enlisted men in the Marine Corps, we knew far more about the former than the latter.

    By experience, we knew that LtCol Bell was:

    Fearless. Always, he placed himself at the center of action, moving his command post into the midst of every fight.

    Experienced. He dispatched indirect fires with speed and accuracy. He read maps with precision and accuracy. He taught leadership and loyalty in the classroom and by example. He minimized our losses while killing the enemy in large numbers, with great consistency. He could perform the duties of any Marine in his command.

    Disciplined. The colonel demanded much of us, but gave much of himself. He slept on the ground near his fighting hole, which he personally dug. He laid out his weapons and gear on the lip of his fighting hole with the same precision he demanded of us. He seldom rested, always ate last, rarely left the “bush” and washed his own clothes.

    Smart. Bell consistently placed us in a position to win with reduced casualties. Our tactical movements followed no set pattern and rarely blended the subordinate units together, diminishing enemy ambush opportunities. He reduced the use of helicopters to better conceal our positions. He found the enemy’s weakness and struck where they were most vulnerable. The colonel sought the advantage of strategy and tactics, rather than overwhelming force, to defeat the enemy and protect his Marines.

    Innovative. He modified the Marine doctrine of immediate reaction for his infantry units, instituting the Australian “peel back” technique, an effort to flank rather than assault directly into fire during an ambush. He preferred to operate from his fighting hole with only a poncho for cover and a small collapsible desk and chair. He moved troops and tracked vehicles by different but mutually supporting routes that always varied. He constantly emphasized the need to live like the enemy.

    Old Breed
    Through the grapevine of Marine informal information, we learned other facts about LtCol Bell. We would learn that none of his legend had been overstated. He enlisted at the age of 17 in the Marine Corps during the late 1930s, served in China and boxed as a welterweight and middleweight during his first tours of duty. He served with Lewis B. “Chesty” Puller during World War II as an enlisted man and was commissioned as a lieutenant before the Korean War. He was awarded the Navy Cross for rallying Company A, 7th Marines during a bayonet attack in the Korean Punch Bowl during the spring of 1951.

    War Means Fighting
    For the men who served with LtCol Bell, neither legend nor fact adequately captured the man. To us, he often seemed Homeric in his attitude, character and actions. Take, for instance, the events that unfolded in the southwest corner of The Arizona on 6 June 1966.

    The Arizona had us by June 1966. It had exorcised most of life’s expectations with the exception of survival. That hope of survival had interlocked with a rage that approached an obsession, a madness to kill the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong who opposed us.

    “Bravo” Co had displaced during the early darkness of 6 June, moving down the beach paralleling the South China Sea. The company invested the enemy-held hamlet of Phong Ho. After an early morning firefight, an intense struggle developed into a killing match, with both sides suffering casualties.

    At that moment, Bravo Co welcomed LtCol Bell, leading a small convoy with 10 Marines on three Ontos (small, tracked vehicles each mounting six 106 mm recoilless rifles) unannounced and uninvited into the fight. Bell moved his small task force quickly and directly into the fire. Using a combination of automatic, cannon and small-arms fire, he silenced the enemy’s guns, inflicting a large number of enemy casualties.

    With Bravo Co secured, Bell proceeded at once to an outlying infantry post to check that position. En route, the small convoy paused for a helicopter-fueled resupply. Suddenly, small-arms fire erupted from three sides of Bell’s position, downing the helicopter and threatening the convoy.

    Bell immediately leaped from atop the lead tracked vehicle, organizing and directing fire against an overwhelming force that was attempting to overrun his Marines and destroy the helicopter and tracked vehicles. Rather than withdraw, Bell called to the battalion command post of 1/1 for help while engaging the enemy, holding the North Vietnamese in place.

    At battalion, I heard the commander’s familiar voice talking calmly into his radio, describing his situation, summoning help from 1/1 while the sounds of the distant firefight began to drift into our position. I swung onto the lead amtrac (amphibious troop-carrying vehicle) at our position. In a heartbeat, I found myself with a Marine squad leading two tractors down a slim trace bordering a north-south wood line, comfortably situated behind an M60 machine gun and receiving further instructions from LtCol Bell.

    Fighting Means Dying
    The big Chrysler engines that powered the amtrac roared their fitful cacophony of sound and power that blended with the same noise emitting from a similar vehicle following in trace. I looked back to see my Marines checking their weapons and piling sandbags before them.

    The radio receiver cradled in my hand came alive. I heard the patient, slow throb of Bell’s Mississippi drawl, directing us into the battle. Ding Dong ordered us to parallel the wood line north and then gave us encrypted coordinates and a terrain feature where he wanted us to pivot right, crash through the scrub and enfilade the enemy, taking them on their exposed flank. He directed the second tractor to pass our pivot, proceed 50 meters farther south, penetrate the wood line and attack the enemy.

    Then LtCol Bell made similar calls for helicopter gunship support and medical evacuation for the wounded in his convoy. I could hear the rattle of small-arms fire and the explosion of ordnance over Bell’s open microphone.

    We executed precisely. We crashed through the scrub, broke into the open and found the enemy, unaware, immediately before us. Just to our left was the embattled Ontos convoy. Astride one of the 106 mm recoilless rifles, Bell sent aimed and measured M14 rifle fire into the enemy position before him.

    At that moment, my M60 machine gun lit up, throwing a stream of orange-flecked fire down the length of the rice paddy dike behind which most of the enemy crouched.

    Behind me, I heard the small-arms fire of my men join the growing crescendo of my gun. To our immediate rear, the second tractor broke into the clear and added its own firepower to the melee. The green tracers from the enemy’s AK47 rifles that had been striking the convoy ceased. As quickly as the attack had begun, it subsided.

    The amtrac rode down the length of the dike, crushing the North Vietnamese who crouched behind the embankment. We then swung back and fronted the lead Ontos. LtCol Bell remained astride the barrel of a cannon on the lead vehicle from which he had made his fight. Spattered with his own blood as well as that of his Marines whom he had aided, Bell continued to hold his M14 rifle comfortably in the crook of his right arm.

    I leaped from the top of my amtrac where I had fought, running to LtCol Bell’s vehicle. Without a word, he passed down his weapon, still hot to the touch. Without a word, I reached up and grabbed the weathered, stocky, powerful 48-year-old lieutenant colonel underneath his armpits. I swung him down and laid him in the grass.

    All My Sons
    We lifted the colonel up and into the medical evacuation helicopter. He remained conscious despite his wounds, but the noise of the rotating helicopter blades prevented conversation. The helicopter fluttered off the ground. Simultaneously, LtCol Bell rose from the deck of the helicopter cabin, braced himself momentarily in the door and then he flung himself into the arms of the same Marines who moments before had loaded him into the helicopter.

    We caught the falling Marine and helped him stand on his feet. His torn and bloodied uniform reflected the fight he had just finished. Shaken and unsteady, he struggled to regain his equilibrium. Despite his wounds, at that moment, on that field, he demonstrated the heart of a lion and an iron resolve not to leave his command, his Marines.

    “Get me back to the battalion command post,” LtCol Bell instructed us in a low, yet firm voice. “I am not leaving my men out here.”

    We headed back to the command post. LtCol Bell rested atop the tracked vehicle.

    The Cross
    We reached the battalion command post as the sun set behind the Que Son Mountains to the west. We lifted our battalion commander off the tractor and carried him a short distance to his fighting hole. A battalion corpsman patched up Ding Dong, and soon Bell rested beside his fighting hole.

    We went back to work that night, killing the enemy. By first light, the colonel found his strength and vigor. Characteristically, he inspected his companies and then planned a battalion movement for that afternoon.

    Years later, I read the citation for the Navy Cross that LtCol Bell received for “extraordinary heroism” on 6 June 1966. The writer of that citation recorded precisely most of the facts of what happened on that grim day, but he left out the part about LtCol Bell refusing to be medically evacuated and jumping out of the helicopter.

    And the citation said nothing about how much Ding Dong loved his Marines or how much they loved him forever and “once upon a time.”

    Editor’s note: The author served with LtCol Bell as a platoon sergeant in 1/1 during the Vietnam War. Decorated and disabled, the author subsequently spent many years as an athletics academic adviser, finally retiring from the University of Arizona. He earned a Ph.D. from the University of Kansas and has published two books and many articles.

    Then reread Scott Camil and Kenneth Campbell’s Winter Soldier testimony:

    MODERATOR. All right. Mr. Camile, you were in Artillery, FO. You were attached to the 1st Battalion, 12th Marines.

    CAMILE. I was in the 1st Battalion, 11th Marines, attached to the 1st Battalion, 1st Marines.

    MODERATOR. You have some testimony here on the burning of villages, cutting off of ears, cutting off of heads, calling in artillery on villages for games, women raped, napalm on villages, all sorts of testimony of crimes against the civilians. Could you go into just a few of these to let the people know how you treat the Vietnamese civilian?

    CAMILE. All right. The calling in of artillery for games, the way it was worked would be the mortar forward observers would pick out certain houses in villages, friendly villages, and the mortar forward observers would call in mortars until they destroyed that house and then the artillery forward observer would call in artillery until he destroyed another house and whoever used the least amount of artillery, they won. And when we got back someone would have to buy someone else beers. The cutting off of heads–on Operation Stone–there was a Lt. Colonel there and two people had their heads cut off and put on stakes and stuck in the middle of the field. And we were notified that there was press covering the operation and that we couldn’t do that anymore. Before we went out on the operation we were told not to waste our heat tablets on food but to save them for the villages because we were going to destroy all the villages and we didn’t give the people any time to get out of the villages. We just went in and burned them and if people were in the villages yelling and screaming, we didn’t help them. We just burned the houses as we went.

    MODERATOR. Why did you use the heat tabs? Did you just light off the villages with matches or just throw the heat tabs in so it would keep burning?

    CAMILE. We’d throw the heat tabs in because it was quicker and they’d keep burning. They couldn’t put the heat tabs out. We’d throw them on top of the houses. People cut off ears and when they’d come back in off of an operation you’d make deals before you’d go out and like for every ear you cut off someone would buy you two beers, so people cut off ears. The torturing of prisoners was done with beatings and I saw one case where there were two prisoners. One prisoner was staked out on the ground and he was cut open while he was alive and part of his insides were cut out and they told the other prisoner if he didn’t tell them what they wanted to know they would kill him. And I don’t know what he said because he spoke in Vietnamese but then they killed him after that anyway.

    MODERATOR. Were these primarily civilians or do you believe that they were, or do you know that they were actual NVA?

    CAMILE. The way that we distinguished between civilians and VC, VC had weapons and civilians didn’t and anybody that was dead was considered a VC. If you killed someone they said, “How do you know he’s a VC?” and the general reply would be, “He’s dead,” and that was sufficient. When we went through the villages and searched people the women would have all their clothes taken off and the men would use their penises to probe them to make sure they didn’t have anything hidden anywhere and this was raping but it was done as searching.

    MODERATOR. As searching. Were there officers present there?

    CAMILE. Yes, there were.

    MODERATOR. Was this on a company level?

    CAMILE. Company level.

    MODERATOR. The company commander was around when this happened?

    CAMILE. Right.

    MODERATOR. Did he approve of it or did he look the other way or…

    CAMILE. He never said not to or never said anything about it. The main thing was that if an operation was covered by the press there were certain things we weren’t supposed to do, but if there was no press there, it was okay. I saw one case where a woman was shot by a sniper, one of our snipers. When we got up to her she was asking for water. And the Lt. said to kill her. So he ripped off her clothes, they stabbed her in both breasts, they spread-eagled her and shoved an E- tool up her vagina, an entrenching tool, and she was still asking for water. And then they took that out and they used a tree limb and then she was shot.

    MODERATOR. Did the men in your outfit, or when you witnessed these things, did they seem to think that it was all right to do anything to the Vietnamese?

    CAMILE. It wasn’t like they were humans. We were conditioned to believe that this was for the good of the nation, the good of our country, and anything we did was okay. And when you shot someone you didn’t think you were shooting at a human. They were a gook or a Commie and it was okay. And anything you did to them was okay because, like, they would tell you they’d do it to you if they had the chance.

    MODERATOR. This was told you all through your training, then, in boot camp, in advanced training, and so forth and it was followed on then, right on through it?

    CAMILE. Definitely.

    MODERATOR. Mr. Campbell, you were, I believe, in the same unit that Mr. Camile was. There was a period of perhaps two months separating the time that he left and the time you came. Was this same unit type policy, was this carried on?

    CAMPBELL. Some of the policy was not carried on because of an incident that happened in Quang Tri Province that Scott Camile witnessed and there was a big stink about it. There was some kind of investigation into it and I heard about it when I got to Nam and all the guys that were there before me talked about it and things were kind of cooled down and so a lot of this stuff when I first got there wasn’t actually carried out. Bravo Company was to cool it for a while. The whole Battalion, actually, because we had a bad mark against us from the incident previous to the time I got there.

    MODERATOR. One more question on that. The training–What did you consider the Vietnamese? Were they equal with you?

    CAMPBELL. The Vietnamese were gooks. We didn’t just call the VC or the NVA gooks. All Vietnamese were gooks and they were slant eyes. They were zips. They were Orientals and they were inferior to us. We were Americans. We were the civilized people. We didn’t give a —— about those people.

    link ~ added by editor

  • candy

    If you are going to copy or cut and paste others work or articles you need to give a working link otherwise the posts will be removed.

    candy/editor

  • Robert Greer

    http://www.mca-marines.org/leatherneck/Story3June.htm

    Candy, I will comply with your link rule.

    I do notice that your other posters like to chop up and partially delete my past posts in order to make their points.

    They should provide links to those posts and when the posts have been deleted they should print an acknowledgement stating what Blog and blogmistress or blogmaster deleted them.

    Thank You,

    Robert Greer

  • Anonymous

    are answering in reply to your posts they do not need to link to the thread they are posting in. None of your posts were removed and I added in the reference link to the leatherneck posts. Most deletions are done under the title of editor and you can send an message to the editors here:

    http://agonist.org/user/editor

  • Escher Sketch

    Number one, I’m adducing evidence to support a point. I am not required to quote your entire post if it’s not relevant, I’m not your Royal Stenographer.

    Number two, I don’t delete your posts; I don’t have that power. I couldn’t censor you if I wanted to, nor would I if I could. You make a far more educational example sundrying and swaying in the breeze at the end of the public dock anyway.

    Number three, I actually don’t “delete” anything. Quoting relevant passages is not synonymous with “deleting the rest”.

    Number four, I believe I’ve provided links to everything of yours that I’ve quoted. You on the other hand generally avoid providing links to things you quote.

    Number five, you have been repeatedly warned on other blogs (EXAMPLE ONEEXAMPLE TWO – and see also the clear instructions to do so at the bottom of those linked pages) and now warned once again on this one that you are expected to link to sources that you quote, so saying “I didn’t know” doesn’t wash. Your continued willful omission leads one to speculate that you have an interest in both evading factchecking and camouflaging your sources – or lack thereof.

    Number six, if someone else on this blog or elsewhere has deleted one of your posts, I’m hardly responsible for that – nor am I inclined to traipse around the internet monitoring if it’s been done. I’m not aware of any quotes of yours that I’ve clipped that come from anything you’ve posted that has been deleted unless that’s happened in the last several hours while I was out having what I like to refer to as “a life”.

    Number seven, there’s no need for me to link internally in a thread, people can raise their eyes a couple of inches and read the original.

  • Escher Sketch

    After repeated challenges we still don’t know what concrete and specific allegations you are making about Murtha, so “who to believe” is simply more of your pathetic “look over here! shiny!” horseshit.

    You’ve made repeated slimy innuendoes, but you’ve ignored every request for a concrete and specific allegation. There’s no question of “who to believe”, that’s simply laughable. You’re an idiot – you’ve made no allegation for us to “believe” or “disbelieve”.

    Do you think your parents would be proud of how their boy turned out?

  • Anonymous

    Escher Sketch writes to Robert Greer:

    I don’t delete your posts; I don’t have that power. I couldn’t censor you if I wanted to, nor would I if I could.

    I actually don’t “delete” anything. Quoting relevant passages is not synonymous with “deleting the rest”.

    What about snipping Escher Sketch?

    Can you snip Escher Sketch?

    Why do you snip Escher Sketch?

    (snipping some more swiftboating of Kerry)

    Escher Sketch July 7, 2006 – 3:29am

    Escher Sketch I would be more than happy to discuss with you
    that very concrete and relevant passage that you snipped from the Boston Globe article.

    Link 1

    I did not write that article Escher Sketch.

    It was written By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff, 6/16/2003

    Who also wrote:

    John F. Kerry: The Complete Biography By The Boston Globe Reporters Who Know Him Best (Publicaffairs Reports) (Paperback)
    by Michael Kranish, Brian C. Mooney, Nina J. Easton

    Link 2

    Kranish was not trying to swiftboat John Kerry.

    In trying to help John Kerry, Kranish drew attention to John Kerry’s involvement in one of the greatest tragedies of the Vietnam War.

    Escher Sketch you flopped it when you should have flipped it.

    Then Escher Sketch you flipped it then you snipped it.

    That is one concrete fact that I am presenting you with today.

    Escher Sketch do you remember this one ?

    What are little girls made of Escher Sketch ?

    ” Sugar and Spice and Everything Nice ? ”

    Now Escher Sketch what are little boys made of ?

    Say it Escher Sketch, I know you can do it Escher Sketch,
    come on now Escher Sketch, say it …..

    Snips……that’s right Escher Sketch ….. Snips

    Snips…….and snails and puppydogs tails

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006041312215

    Escher Sketch what are you made of ?

  • Escher Sketch

    about Murtha, smear merchant; I’m not asking you for any on John Kerry, am I? You brought up the “Murtha Problem” and tried to link him with Camile’s Winter Soldier testimony. Now put up or shut up.

    Growing desperate now, are we?

    I can smell your flopsweat as you cycle through every predictable distraction rather than answer my direct question – where is your concrete and specific allegation about Murtha?

    You can’t answer that question, can you?

  • Psycmeistr

    Why is it when Murtha gets criticized, he is “swiftboated”… yet when Rumsfeld, a Korean war vet, is raked over the coals, it is fair game?

  • Escher Sketch

    to some vague insinuations that lack any substance or sourcing that Rumsfeld was involved in war crimes?

    (edit for clarity – I mean in his Korean service – not the ones he’s perpetrating nowadays – ES)

  • Escher Sketch

    to your little bloggie! Oh, how cute!

    …the only “freedoms” that you and your “progressive” (gads–is that an oxymoronic term or what?) friends espouse are the “freedoms” you wish to bestow upon yourselves–to hell with anyone else–and that specifically includes your “freedom” to be a total drag on society, up to and including the forced confiscation of others’ wealth as a means for your hedonistic pursuits (not to mention advocating for the murder of “little inconveniences” that get in your way of having a good time).

    You and yours always conveniently forget the other side of freedom–and that is the RESPONSIBILITY to exercise freedom in a manner that is not harmful to the society in which you live, along with a RESPONSIBILITY to actually CONTRIBUTE to, and not be a drain on society. Not to mention to take responsibility for the consequences of your actions, and to not expect the government (read: taxpayer) to pick up the mess that you create.

    But somehow, that notion of personal responsibility to be a contributing member of society seems to completely escape you and your ilk; all you are interested in is how you can “get yours.” Your idea of “civic responsibility” is only limited to how much you think others should fork over to contribute to the largesse you wish to create.

    You and yours are a parasitic drain on society, much as a blood-filled woodtick or a tapeworm living off its host, until at long last the host no longer has anything to give and dies…

    hums: Getting to kno-oooo-w… you-uuuu… getting to know allll… about… you-uuuuu-

    Well, so much for anyone taking your questions seriously.

    Next.

  • candy

    they really should train them better before they send them this way. ;)

  • Escher Sketch

    I feel I know you all so much better.

    Speaking of which, there’s a dead raccoon in my backyard that I simply must get back to draining the blood from. Cocktail?

  • candy

    You might want to mix it with the drippings from the Lieberman game. lol

  • Robert Greer

    I have been trying to keep up with what is happening on this blog which is associated with Sean-Paul Kelley and also with what is happening on Taylor Marsh’s blog.

    In regards to Taylor Marsh’s blog:

    Taylor recently posted:

    JOHN MURTHA: Anatomy of a Smear

    Taylor’s premise is that in regards to John Murtha

    “Everything was okay until November 17, 2005.”

    http://www.house.gov/list/press/pa12_murtha/pr051117iraq.html

    Then supports her thesis with 127 “links”

    Taylor is dead wrong on her date and let’s face it how many people are going to waste time reading those 127 links.

    Now you may think that the only reason that I am here is because I am falling in love with Escher Sketch ….. If you do think that ….than you are probably my potential friend….. not because of what you think ….but because I recognize that you do think …. and I respect and cherish your thoughts.

    Now,…. I repeat,… Now,…. Sean-Paul Kelley and friends…. I am appealing to you to correct the date on Taylor’s thesis and let me know what you think.

    “Everything was okay until June 5th, 1968″

  • candy

    If you have a problem with Taylor Marsh’s recent post you can address it at her blog, PATRIOT PROJECT or the Huffington Post. I don’t see any comments from you on her post or where it was crossposted and I don’t see why you feel we should do your questioning for you.

  • JustPlainDave

    …from 1954 (after his graduation from Princeton) to 1957 as a naval aviator – the active hostilities of the Korean War extended from June 25, 1950 to July 27, 1953 (i.e., he’s not a Korean War vet). Rumsfeld continued as an active reservist until becoming SecDef (the first time) in 1975.

    “We declared war on terror, it’s not even a noun, so, good luck. After we defeat it, I’m sure we’ll take on that bastard ennui.” – Jon Stewart.

  • Psycmeistr

    I still see that you lack the cajones to answer the substance of my question.

    Why is criticism of Murtha swiftboating, while criticism of conservative vets is fair game.

    Keep on shooting the messenger and playing your little games, if you must. That will only continue to show your vacuousness…

  • Escher Sketch

    where is your concrete and specific allegation against Murtha? Where is the concrete and specific rationale underlying your first post here where you quote Winter Soldier testimony under “The Murtha Problem”?

  • Robert Greer

    To Al and Tipper Gore and Family
    Davidson County Democrat Party

    What is the Gore Family thinking?

    Having Congressman John P. Murtha as the honored speaker
    at the the Second Annual Gore Family Dinner is an insult to all Democrats.

    As a former United States Marine and a registered Democrat
    I will be doing my best to see that John Murtha never holds public office again.

    Al and Tipper if you must have a dinner for John Murtha
    then please realize that it is his farewell dinner.

    Semper Fi,
    Bob Greer L 3/26 USMC VN’68

  • candy

    From the bowels:

    The lefty blogs have now gone on to define “swiftboating” as any attempts to criticize a veteran. Period.
    .
    The question I pose to them:
    .
    Why is criticism of the ideas of John Murtha held up as “swiftboating”, while criticism of conservative war veterans (does the name, “Donald Rumsfeld” ring a bell?) is held up as fair game?
    .
    Since they themselves refuse to answer, let me venture a guess.
    .
    Given their “blame America First!” mentality, liberals are desperate for cred in the realm of national defense–any cred–as a faux platform of “legitimacy” from which to launch and spread their anti-war, anti-American propaganda.
    .
    Face it. There aren’t a lot of decorated veterans in their camp. So when they finally get one, they hang on to him and guard him like a dung beetle guards the last remaining piece of crap in the barn yard. A decorated veteran in the moonbat fever-swamp–especially in their efforts to gain credibility during a time of war–is a precious commodity, to be protected and guarded at all costs.


    Now isn’t that rich? he doesn’t bother to respond back here after JPD’s post:

    Donald Rumsfeld was in the US Navy…
    …from 1954 (after his graduation from Princeton) to 1957 as a naval aviator – the active hostilities of the Korean War extended from June 25, 1950 to July 27, 1953 (i.e., he’s not a Korean War vet). Rumsfeld continued as an active reservist until becoming SecDef (the first time) in 1975.

    Ah well facts are such an inconvienence :D It seems Psycmeistr has a habit of ASSuming all kinds of things when people hold differing opinions. I’m so disgusted I breath the same MN air.

  • Escher Sketch

    Sourcewatch entry on Leo Pusateri, aka psycmeistr:

    Leo Pusateri

    Leo Pusateri of St. Paul, Minnesota, is a school pyschologist who posts as Psycmeistr on the Unto the Breach forum and on his Psycmeistr’s Ice Palace blog.

    On June 24, 2006, Pustaceri registered the MURTHAMUSTGO.COM domain name.

    Table of contents [hide]
    1 Swiftboating John P. Murtha
    1.1 Domain Registration
    2 Related SourceWatch Resources
    3 External Links
    3.1 Profiles
    3.2 Articles & Commentary
    [edit]
    Swiftboating John P. Murtha

    Pustaceri states the following on his website MurthaMustGo!: “As a parent of a deployed Iraqi Freedom soldier, this is dedicated to ousting John Murtha from the U.S. House PA 12th CD. Murtha’s shameless rhetoric gives comfort to our enemy. He no longer deserves the title of U.S. Marine, nor Congressman.” [1]

    [edit]
    Domain Registration
    The domain name MURTHAMUSTGO.COM (http://www.murthamustgo.com) was registered June 24, 2006, to GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com), with Private Registration (MURTHAMUSTGO.COM AT domainsbyproxy.com) by Domains by Proxy, Inc. (at DomainsByProxy.com), who is listed as both the website administrator and technical support and can be contacted at 15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353, Scottsdale, Arizona 85260, Phone: 480 624-2599 / Fax 480 624-2599. [2]

    [edit]
    Related SourceWatch Resources

    Larry Bailey
    Ann Coulter
    Amanda P. Doss
    Diana L. Irey
    Swiftboating John Murtha

  • Escher Sketch

    I had left this thread alone to give folks time to digest your last posts. The obvious “rewrite of history” edit of your question would have given any of your readers following the link a whiff of “rat”. It must have been a surprise when you discovered Agonist contributors can’t edit their posts once they’ve been replied to, so everyone gets to compare what you “said you said” with what you actually said. Unlike on your blog, where you were able to change the quote to “airbrush out” your factual error and insert the phrase “his ideas”, and neglected to mention you were challenged on both a significant fact and on the underlying premise of your question and simply refused to respond – the attempt to “rewrite history” generally fails here. Your link serves my purposes just fine; your readers are now aware that there’s a serious problem with your argument.

    That’s not why I’m writing.

    I’ve popped over to your blog, and dismissed it. It was kind of amusing, but – well, seen it all before. It’s kind of “water off a duck’s back”, just like if one sees equivalent angry, hateful eliminationist rants from the left. But something has been bubbling up in the back of my mind until it struck me full force today, and I became coldly furious. In fact – I can’t recall being this angry in quite a while.

    This is something that has nothing whatsoever to do with politics.

    You’re a school psychologist, Leo?

    Set aside politics if you can, Leo. This criticism would apply regardless of political perspective.

    I found you in one search, Leo. And Leo – kids Google.

    What do you think goes on in the minds of impressionable schoolkids in your charge when they inevitably Google their teacher as kids do – and come across your blog at #3?

    What do you think the children in your care feel when they come across that repository of violent, vitriolic imagery, of furious hate-filled political rhetoric, of inflammatory name-calling?

    Did you stop to think about that for one instant, Leo?

    I’ve been peripherally involved with this field for twenty-five years and I’ve simply never seen such a thing.

    You can’t even do a realistic damage assessment on this – the ones that have read it, do you think they would have come and talked to you about their feelings after reading it – or do you think they might have felt uncomfortable enough not to speak? Do you think they understood it?

    What are you role-modeling for your students in their formative years, Leo?

    Anger management? Conflict resolution? The importance of empathy in interpersonal communications? Reasoning towards win/win outcomes? Keeping your inner and outer lives in balance and agreement?

    When they talk to you about a dispute at school, Leo – do you tell them to call names like “parasite” or “tick” or “tapeworm”, to demonize, to dehumanize, to make blanket statements, to distort and misrepresent and misquote and mischaracterize if you need to as long as you win?

    I strongly doubt it.

    So when they go to your blog and read how you personally actually handle conflict yourself, Leo Pusateri – how do you think they resolve that contradiction internally? What do you think goes through their heads?

    I cannot tell you right now how you’ve betrayed your trust and the children in your charge for cheap politics.

    Does your licensing/accrediting body know about your blog? How about the schools that Google tells me you teach at? How many of them have seen it yet?

    This is so far beyond politics it’s not remotely funny. If I was a parent with a child in your care and I came across your blog – I honestly don’t know how I would have responded. I can tell you your only hope would rest on my having the degree of self-control over my anger that you’ve demonstrated you lack yourself.

    You are a contemptible, loathsome, despicable, self-indulgent cockroach of an ethical disgrace. You sit in a serious position of trust, and it doesn’t even seem to have yet dawned on you how enormously you’ve breached it.

  • Escher Sketch

    it’s probably crossed your mind that you wouldn’t like your kid’s school psychologist blogging at you the way I just did.

    Clicking now?

  • Escher Sketch

    a comment I previously quoted from your blog now takes on a relevance which may not have occurred to you at the time you wrote it on your blog:

    … You and yours always conveniently forget the other side of freedom – and that is the RESPONSIBILITY to exercise freedom in a manner that is not harmful to the society in which you live…

    - Leo Pusateri, AKA psycmeistr

    Brilliant exercise of your freedoms, you irresponsible asshole.

    Favorite Quote: “It s easier to criticize while looking out a window than while looking in a mirror.” – Yahoo profile for Leo Pusateri.

  • Robert Greer

    Thank you Escher Sketch

    Escher Sketch do not be so hard on Leo.

    Leo is trying to help you

    Leo loves you Escher Sketch

    and I love you too

    Escher Sketch did you hear that

    Professor Kenneth Campbell dropped his lawsuit

    http://www.vvlf.org/default.php?page_id=52

    Apparently the evidence that you asked for

    turned out to be concrete.

    How about that John Murtha guy !

    Ain’t he something !

    Good work Escher Sketch

  • Escher Sketch

    You’re done here. Nobody’s engaging your allegations, following your links; nobody’s been responding except me as “designated hitter”, and I’m done now. You’re standing on a streetcorner talking to yourself.

    It took me a while – and I wish I’d clued in sooner – but I have come to the realization that it is very likely you are not 100% responsible for the content of your posts.

    I have compassion for whatever emotional wounds you may have suffered in your Vietnam service. It has been established beyond any doubt that you have no concrete allegation to back up your innuendo. I’m no longer interested in engaging with you and this discussion is closed.

    Please believe that I am sincere when I say I hope you find peace.

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