when the bad kids tell me they dont want to give a damn about the goddamn democrats, i am pretty sure it is this kind of thing.

seriously people. OMG. why bother, really? "At least we defended some dumb patronage network." way to go guys.

--
Hongpong.com

who have more children doesn't seem a very good idea to me either. Not a very effective way to deal with the overpopulation problem. The government is broke (literally and figuratively).

isn't a bad idea, since working families are, statistically, in the worst shape.

That's why the food stamps would have been effective, because that aid would have gone most to the people with least.

is never the answer. how about making a DRASTIC increase in minimum wage. that would end a lot of problems. start paying low wage jobs a minimum of $20 an hour and you will begin to see crime drop as desperation declines. this wouldn't even begin to cut into the wallets of the overly wealthy ceo's and business owners. lets even the playing field for REAL.

quit handing out money to people and pretending to help them, you pigs!

isn't stimulus, but a major public policy decision.

that the realization must be dawning that they'll probably hold three branches of government by 2009. Concessions now to get stuff passed would thus be a small tradeoff.

we repeal the god awful bankruptcy law passed a few years back and suspend top CC rates at say 10% for 6-9 months? I would think this would have a much greater impact short/mid term and has the advantage of not costing the taxpayers a dime.

Why be sensible though when there are scraps of pork on the table?

when i read this. i have nothing to add.

end the blurring--vote steve novick for u.s. senate in oregon

I wish we could enact term limits. that would get rid of a lot of these lobbyist ass suckers.

I wish we could enact term limits. This might help the situation. I magine if Bush could be president indefinitely !

Could it be time for a third and/or fourth national party to come front and center???

Unfortunately, the poor, elderly and disabled were never on the train.

It was never about a stimulus anyway. It's political theatre, for the election. The Republicans are simply holding their ideological line. As for the Democrats, it's evil, certainly, but what bothers me most is that the Dems apparently don't realize that it is exactly that Republican ideology of free markets that is the fundamental problem. The elites could pass $1 trillion in a stimulus package, and so long as they don't seriously move to change the paper-for-oil free market economy, nothing really gets solved.

...this post entitled "The Dems just gave away your stimulus check", ending with

The Republicans ONLY want to help the rich, and the Democrats ONLY want to help the poor. Screw everybody else. I am so sick of these people.

"Here's a check for $300. Never mind the massive structural problems we're all facing. Throwing money at people has worked in the past and will continue to work now and in the future."

Give me a break.

Maybe Pelosi's thinking is that not only is tax rebates and economic stimulus but also a reward to those of us who work hard and paid taxes in the first place.

Afterall Why do I bust my b* in the office each day to see 1/3 of my paycheck go to the government? Maybe I should quit and join the ranks of the poor. That way I wouldn't owe the government anything. I just sit around the yard waiting for those free government checks to come in the mail?

Max Bacus, of all people, gets that UI is a good idea. And I would hope that our dear Senators from food growing states would realize that Food Stamps are a good idea.

This "rewarding people" who work thing is ummm... well really stupid. If you don't reward people for staying in the labor force, then they may well decide that the black or grey economy is the place to be.

Which is bad policy.

Tax Rebates Deal Announced

Thursday January 24, 2008 9:46 PM

By ANDREW TAYLOR

Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - Congressional leaders announced a deal with the White House Thursday on an economic stimulus package that would give most tax filers refunds of $600 to $1,200, and more if they have children.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Congress would act on the agreement - hammered out in a week of intense negotiations with Republican Leader John A. Boehner and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson - ``at the earliest date, so that those rebate checks will be in the mail.''

President Bush praised the agreement in a statement he delivered to reporters at the White House. ``This package has the right set of policies and is the right size,'' he said.

The rebates, which would go to about 116 million families, had appeal for both Democrats and Republicans. Pelosi's staff noted that they would include $28 billion in checks to 35 million working families who wouldn't have been helped by Bush's original proposal. Republicans, for their part, were pleased that the bulk of the rebates - more than 70 percent, according to an analysis by Congress' Joint Tax Committee - would go to individuals who pay taxes.

Individuals who pay income taxes would get up to $600, working couples $1,200 and those with children an additional $300 per child under the agreement. Workers who make at least $3,000 but don't pay taxes would get $300 rebates.

The rebates, expected to go out in June, would cost about $100 billion, aides said. The package also includes close to $50 billion in business tax cuts.

The package would allow businesses to immediately write off 50 percent of purchases of plants and other capital equipment and permit small businesses to write off additional purchases of equipment. A Republican-written provision to allow businesses suffering losses now to reclaim taxes previously paid was dropped.

Pelosi, D-Calif., agreed to drop increases in food stamp and unemployment benefits during a Wednesday meeting in exchange for gaining the rebates of at least $300 for almost everyone earning a paycheck, including those who make too little to pay income taxes.

``I can't say that I'm totally pleased with the package, but I do know that it will help stimulate the economy. But if it does not, then there will be more to come,'' Pelosi said.

Boehner said the agreement ``was not easy for the two of us and our respective caucuses.''

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-7253767,00.html

is called "the jungle." There are no written laws in the jungle, just the natural pressures of evolution. Apes can live in the jungle, but they have no iPods, no snowmobiles and no supermarkets.

Jungles and civilization don't mix; in fact, civilization consumes jungles, turning their trees into furniture, then leaving behind a barren wasteland.

A civilization is a highly complex system that must carefully balance the distribution of resources, lest it decline into feudalism. That is what is happening now in America: Resources (wages, health care, civil rights) are shifting massively towards the wealthy and away from the worker class.

That is why any paltry "economic stimulus" is not just a poor joke, but a prank played on the poor. A one-time "rebate" of $800 dollars may help somebody pay part of one month's rent, but far more appropriate would be a hefty wage hike for those whose wages are now failing to pay their bills due to inflation.

I haven't heard any of the Democratic candidates speak of wage increases. Ignoring the bear in the room won't make it go away. Unfortunately, George and his pals are leaving several large and angry bears in the room as they scooter out the back door, chuckling about what rubes these Americans are.
.
"Adapt or perish." Murphy's Law? Nope, Darwin's Guarantee.

Always complaining about not getting their share?

Try being female, black or latino for a while.

“It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change.”

Charles Darwin

I can't believe she came from the Burton people, complete sale out but I'm not suprised. Please dear you aren't going to ever be the Queen, please just do your job.
jo6pac

And you think you don't need it because you make enough money (still under the 75K cutoff) but you believe that poorer people need the money more urgently??

SIMPLE SOLUTION: Instead of just whining about the unfairness, go to a poor part of town and give it to somebody who looks like needs some extra cash. Seriously. I may do that. Or I may just send an anonymous postal money order to somebody who's really struggling.

Hey, whattaguy, he can't throw the needy from the train, 'cause he doesn't catch the train

Boston Globe - John McCain, who happily volunteers he doesn't know much about economics, turned his attention to the subject today by unveiling a new set of "pro-growth" policies to keep up with a shift in the Republican conversation away from Iraq and terrorism towards domestic concerns.

"There are more and more questions at the town-hall meetings about the economy," McCain said at an optics manufacturer here before talking about trade and taxes, issues that McCain rarely chooses to highlight on the campaign trail.

He proposed renewing the current round of tax cuts, altering congressional rules to make future tax increases more difficult, and changing the tax code to encourage investment and entrepreneurship and end the alternative-minimum tax. "To have two tax codes in America is
not an unacceptable situation," McCain said.

Yet in remarks the campaign labeled as an "economic plan for American prosperity," McCain turned away repeatedly from macroeconomic policy to reform issues seen as his strengths: controlling federal spending and limiting the role of lobbyists in securing tax loopholes.

"There's a new emphasis on economic issues on everybody's part," said Charlie Black, a McCain strategist. "The first thing you have to do is let voters know it's a concern to you about economic anxiety."

McCain stood before a line graph showing the increase of the alternative-minimum tax, a low-budget campaign's alternative to the PowerPoint presentation Mitt Romney uses when talking about economic policy, a subject on McCain has said he feels he unknowledgeable that
filling the void would be a priority when selecting a vice-presidential nominee.

Like Mike Huckabee, who joked recently that he "may not be the expert that some people are on foreign policy, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night," McCain suggested to reporters Monday that American consumer culture offered a short cut to expertise. "The issue
of economics is not something I've understood as well as I should," McCain said. "I've got Greenspan's book."

_{1."George Washington did not cross the Delaware for Capitalism," -Shmuley Boteach.
2.The Dems haven't punished the GOP enough, so you're going to reward the Republicans?}

How the Rebate Works

By The Associated Press

How Americans in different financial situations would fare under the rebate plan proposed by House leaders and the White House.

_An individual with $2,500 in earned income in 2007: Disqualified because income fell below the $3,000 threshold. No rebate.

_A married couple with no children, with adjusted gross income of $100,000 in 2007: Would qualify for the full $1,200 couples. A $1,200 rebate.

_A worker with one child, who earned $9,000 and owed no taxes in 2007: Would qualify for the $300 rebate available to individuals who pay no taxes but earned at least $3,000, plus an additional $300 for the child. A $600 rebate.

_A couple with income of $145,000 in 2007, with three children: Would qualify for the full $1,200 for couples, plus $300 for each child. A $2,100 rebate.

_A couple with income of $160,000 in 2007 with two children: Would qualify for a partial rebate, reduced by 5 percent for every $1,000 in income above the $150,000 threshold. An $1,800 rebate — $1,200 for the couple plus $300 per child — would go down by 50 percent for this family. A $900 rebate.

_A couple with income of $200,000 and four children: Disqualified because their income exceeded $174,000, the phase-out limit. No rebate.

_An individual with adjusted gross income of $23,000 and no dependents would get a rebate of $600.

_A couple with adjusted gross income of $160,000 and two children would get a rebate of $1,300.

_A couple with adjusted gross income of $184,000 and two children would get a $100 rebate.

Jay Rockefeller's unintentionally revealing comments

Glenn Greenwald

Senators Consider Rebates for Retirees

Saturday January 26, 2008 1:46 PM
By ANDREW TAYLOR
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - Retirees living off Social Security are frustrated that they won't get tax rebate checks through a bipartisan economic stimulus package before the House. Senate Democrats Friday began efforts to include them.

The Senate is also considering an extension of jobless benefits to the $150 billion package of rebates and business tax cuts in a deal wrapped up Thursday between House leaders and President Bush.

Bush urged Congress on Friday to quickly pass the package without any further spending. ``I strongly believe it would be a mistake to delay or derail this bill,'' Bush said.

``I understand the desire to add provisions from both the right and the left,'' he said, adding that would be an error.

Senate Democrats are refusing to rubber stamp the House measure. That raises the possibility of protracted negotiations if Democrats are successful in adding giving retirees tax rebates, extending unemployment benefits, boosting heating subsidies for the poor and temporarily increasing food stamp payments.

Those are all items floated by top Senate Democrats left out of the negotiations between the administration and House leaders.

They were all considered but tossed overboard in intense talks that produced a hard-won agreement among Bush, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Minority Leader John Boehner.

Their plan would give individual taxpayers up to $600 in rebates, working couples $1,200 and those with children an additional $300 per child. The rebates would phase out gradually for individuals whose adjusted gross income exceeds $75,000 and for couples with incomes above $150,000.

But it would leave out about 20 million senior citizens living chiefly on Social Security. They wouldn't get rebate checks unless they have at least $3,000 earned income or pay income taxes based on other sources such as earnings, interest, investments or private pension plans.

``Less than half of all Americans 65 and older would get it,'' said AARP spokesman Jim Dau.

It's not clear whether seniors would ultimately be included in the final bill sent to Bush's desk.

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BREAKING: Hillary Clinton To Vote “No” On Cloture Tomorrow UPDATE: Barack Obama Will Be There Too
By: Jane Hamsher Sunday January 27, 2008 7:12 pm

Hillary Clinton will be in the Senate tomorrow to vote "no" on cloture on the Intel version of the FISA bill. The vote is scheduled to take place at 4:30 pm tomorrow.

I've also been trying to confirm whether Barack Obama will be there. His campaign people have not gotten back to me, but Obama does have a 4pm fundraiser scheduled in Washington DC.

Bravo, Senator Clinton. Well done.

UPDATE: The Obama campaign confirms that Senator Obama will be there too, and voting "no." Way to go, Senator.