Diversionary Delusional Dishonesty from McCain, Lieberman and Kagan


If McCain and Lieberman are not going to take the reality seriously, then it is difficult to take them seriously. Announced in the middle of a media circus today, a collection of assertions, it is difficult to call it "a plan", was released by McCain-Lieberman at the American Enterprise Institute. It is an attempt to create a false option on Iraq. Written by reliably dishonest, incompetent and delusional Fredrick W. Kagan, is an example of how solipsistic the present media debate is that it would be entertained at all.

The nominal point of their plan is to take virtually every deployable combat division in the entire US military, and engage in a Custer-esque throw of the dice on a single Chomp and Stomp operation to pacify Baghdad. This isn't even correct, instead, the plan is an admission that US control over the vital air supply line into Baghdad is deteriorating rapidly, and that US presence in Iraq is, therefore endangered to a degree which limits the viability of the American expeditionary force in Iraq. The plan is really an attempt to preserve the construction of Enduring Presence Bases (EDP) and an admission that this project is in jeopardy.

Their assertion is, effectively, that the surge which was used to pacify Fallujah was a success, this is belied by the fatalities by province which shows that Al-Anbar was, and is still, an area where large numbers of US servicemen are dying and being wounded. More over, the assertion that a few thousand troops will be able to pacify Baghdad without leveling large areas of the city - as was done with Fallujah - is contrary to US experience in Iraq. Finally let us underline that a troop surge is a short term phenomenon, it is based on not rotating troops home that are there currently, which means that the longer it goes on, the more worn the troops stationed in country will become, and the fewer replacements will be available. Any sustained build up - that is an increase in deployed troops, rather than an extension of current tours of duty - will require massive effort to recruit, equip and deploy said troops. With readiness levels at admitted low ebbs - check the most recent emergency defense budget allocation for the offcial story - this would mean that we would not only have to replenish, but dramatically increase levels of production.

In short what the National Security Network is already calling the "McCain escalation plan" is based on a false equivocation of "surge" with build up, a false assertion about the success of the Fallujah campaign, an unrealistic vision - even if we accept Fallujah as a model for the sake of argument - about the level of collateral civilian damage which would be tolerated in Baghdad, and a failed political model of what pacification of Iraq would require. It is difficult to call what they have proposed a realistic starting point for negotiations, and is, instead, something akin to a random posting on The Free Republic about how with just another push we can shock and awe our military inferiors.

It is difficult to provide an analysis of that which does not, in fact, exist. The McCain-Lieberman duo states that we could surge troop levels by 60,000. Given current NATO commitments and US commitments, this number is unrealistic. Only with full NATO participation in Iraq could it be achieved. However, this has been one of the running failures of the Bush policy since the invasion, by taking a "go it alone" stance to Iraq, he virtually assured that there would be no material commitment by NATO towards Iraq. A war based on false statements will often have this result.

The plan rests, in essence, on taking the troops which are currently on reset and sending them, now, to Iraq. This is unrealistic, and is akin to the Japanese mistake of keeping their best pilots deployed during World War II. Over time, the quality of new pilots dropped, since the veteran pilots were not there to train the recruits. Further, veteran pilot effectiveness dropped. This effect has been noticed time after time in military deployments - over extension of forces results in both loss of knowledge and skill base, and the degradation of force effectiveness, the increased incidence of psychological casualties, and the deterioration of morale and discipline. Since the problem in Iraq is one of assertion of fiat, law and normalcy, this pattern is inimical to our political aims, even taking, for the sake of argument, that pacification of Baghdad is the objective.

The troops are not there, they cannot be put there.

The next laughably delusional assertion of the plan which Kagan wrote and which McCain and Lieberman are backing is that there is sufficient teeth in the US military to pacify Baghdad. The proposal they have would virtually abandon the rest of the country, creating the conditions of defacto partition, as local forces take over the control of the country as they have in Afghanistan, Lebanon and the Congo. What they are describing is a last throes of an occupation collapse into the capital, which has been seen in the late stages of civil wars and occupations over the last 200 years. When the established power is struggling to control only the capital, then, as Louis XVI learned, the end is near. And not for the rebellion.

During the invasion we were treated to "thunder runs" of forces racing through Baghdad to prove that the previous regime could no longer defend Baghad. This plan is a bald admission of the converse, that the United States is not in control of Baghdad, and the American backed government is not capable of maintaining control of its capital either. The assertion from McCain-Lieberman's camp is that Baghdad, and only Baghdad, is the problem. This is incorrect, since Baghdad is the operation center it is natural for the insurgency to attack there. It is, as the expression goes, a target rich environment.

Thus the assertion that the other areas of Iraq are "secure" is incorrect, instead, it is only in Baghdad and Al-Anbar where the United States is even attempting to assert control against local centrifugal forces, and in Baghdad where there is a concentration of troops.

The next area of total reality failure in the McCain-Lieberman assertions is the level of US troop enthusiasm for the attempt to enact a major "chomp and stomp" operation in Bagdhad. A year ago, Thomas Ricks was in the camp that there was a possibility of success in Iraq, now he is no longer in this camp, though he is not yet in the camp of vocal critics. However, his defection from the "success is necessary" camp is a clear sign that those on the ground, with extensive networks of contacts understand that the condition of the US expeditionary force in Iraq has reached the point where it is no longer the basis for a possible offensive, or even strategic defensive, solution to the problem.

John McCain called Ricks a liar when Ricks asserted that support among troops in country for a surge and stomp operation was low. However, Ricks is correct, while many US soldiers and marines in Iraq would welcome a chance to "smoke them out" and go on an offensive against the insurgency, the reality is that a larger proportion do not see this as heading to any kind of victory, and they are not clear what the mission is.

In short, the report provided by Kagan is wildly optimistic about the level of teeth that could be deployed, wildly inaccurate about the effectiveness that could be maintained, an open admission that the United States and the United States backed government have lost the rest of Iraq and should now collapse inward, and rests upon a state of forces on the ground that is not backed by an objective assessment, but bald faced lying on the part of McCain, Lieberman, Bush and the others backing it.

Instead, the existence of this proposal indicates that a collapse of the real project in Iraq - the construction of "enduring presence" bases - is closer than previously appearant.

The construction of enduring presence bases in Iraq requires the control of Baghdad and the airport, it is through this channel that the men, equipment and material flow to critical points in the construction of a series of locations which, while labelled "Forward Operating Bases" are, in fact, intended to form the basis of a permanent presence in Iraq. This is the end point of neo-con strategy at the present time: the creation of a new American center of power in the Middle East, which is not dependent on Saudi Arabia, and whose expense requires that the US government be a permanent reactionary military government, with no ability to engage in domestic programs.

The present deterioration of the situation in Baghdad threatens this critical flow of supplies, and, with the south in a more and more hostile stance, and the withdrawal of the British scheduled for the next 18 months - requires that drastic action be taken to accelerate the EPB and to end any dependence on movement from sealift points routed through Basra. This is not a strategy for "victory" in Iraq, but a desperate attempt to protect the supply jugular vein for the EPB.

That this plan is about the supply jugular and not the pacification of Baghdad, is seen from the "proposed deployment" of forces for the city. Sadr City, which is the center of Shia insurgency against government and American control, receives no additional troops, and there is no intended push to pacify them. Instead, the report goes to elaborate lengths to rationalize why Sadr is not confronted. However, since extreme Shia elements are, at this point, responsible for a significant fraction of casualties in Baghdad, as seen from the locations of US fatalities, the failure to confront Sadr or the other extremist elements on the Shia side, shows that this plan is a fraud for its intended purpose.

They are proposing a "house by house" search of this area, which, as noted, does not include any of the centers of opposition, nor any of the concentration points of insurgent bomb assembly - in order to create a secure road channel which is only a few miles long. In effect, they are saying that they need 60K more troops in Iraq, for two years, with extensions of deployments, to protect a few miles of road. If this isn't a clear and present indication of an occupation in grave danger of becoming untenable, then very little short of watching bases be over run will be.

Instead the deployment of forces is almost entirely between the "Green Zone" and Baghdad International Airport, and to protect the supply line between the Green Zone and the Airport. This demonstrates that the purpose of the "surge" is not to pacify Baghdad, as far fetched as that is, but to guard a dwindling channel. That the US is on a strategic defensive that is collapsing can be seen from the pattern of fatalities by week. This shows that previously the US engaged in offensive actions, or the insurgency in short counter actions, which spiked fatalities and casualties. Now while the spikes are lower, the contual wastage is higher. This means that US forces are under continuous pressure, and have ceded the initiative to the insurgency.

Given this reality, this "plan" is, in effect, an admission that US presence in Iraq is, while not exactly on its last legs, but at a point when the ability to pursue the Neo-con vision of replacing Saudi Arabia with Iraq is in danger, and that it would much continuation of the current adverse course to make continued occupation untenable. But this has been the pattern of the entire adventure. The time to be discussing change of course plans in an attempt to salvage Iraq was 2004, not 2006. America engaged in a series of diversions over Kerry's war record and inconsequential purple finger celebrations. Now that the cause is, effectively lost, and we should be planning for a post-American invovlement Iraq, to minimize the damage that withdrawal will cause, Kagan is still hysterically ranting about how a withdrawal would be an unthinkable disaster leading to a "holocaust".

While withdrawal from Iraq is inevitable, the post-American Iraq could be dramatically improved by abandoning any attempts to create EPB and instead focusing what little time we have remaining on restoring water, electricity and other basic services.


Stirling Newberry January 6, 2007 - 7:52pm

for the surge

Small force only

9000 isn 't worth sending them if that is the most the United States can send. Given that combat troops, need support, 2/3 of that figure would not serve on the front line, that reduces the number to approximately 3,000. (A laughable increase)!

Bush can appoint whomever he likes to various positions, but without men who are combat ready, he's living in fairy land.

canuck January 6, 2007 - 9:30am

Seems democrats were advocating one recently. Even Sean Paul Kelly. If we could field the army we did in WWII, we can field one twice that size today.

You get a note in the mail. Twelve weeks later you're on the front lines.

Course that would mean the war becomes real to all of us instead of this little game we now play.

Reality check. We won the war over Iraq in a month. It's the occupation that has gone bad. Israel kicked the shit out of Lebanon in two weeks, but had the sense to leave afterwards.

Don't fool yourself. This can and will be done if we don't put a stop to it.

I did inhale.

Don January 6, 2007 - 9:44am

don't have oil fields.

And about reality, Israel lost the war. Thus they have been adjusting their foreign policy. They are assuming that the next war will be worse.

-- 101 ways to avoid the subjunctive mood

Gandalf January 6, 2007 - 1:14pm

How do you figure?

I've heard the argument and remain unconvinced. If this were a heavywight fight and I had to judge it would be a 100 to 1 in favor of Israel, the only point for Lebanon being that they weren't totally wiped off the map.

I did inhale.

Don January 7, 2007 - 9:13am

Were we watching the same war?

I guess if you can divorce Israel's stated war aims from the results you can crow about this "victory".

They set out to disarm Hezbollah and get their troops back. They also tried their best to kill Nasrallah. Failed miserably to achieve any of those objectives.

At the end it sure looked like they intended to occupy (steal) Lebanon land south of the Litani but Hezbollah made the occupation price too high. Again.

Looks to me like while Israel owned the air, on the ground they got a pretty good thumping. Guess going against well armed and disciplined soldiers is considerable tougher than murdering rock throwing teenagers in the West Bank and Gaza.

ran January 7, 2007 - 9:40pm

A war over two soldiers? Israel tested weapons nd strategies for upcoming conflicts, went anywhere and everwhere they wanted to, destroyed every bridge in the entire nation and set Lebanon back ten years in less than a month. Israeli troops got training. The economic blow to Lebanon is staggering. The rebuilding of infrastructure will consume most of their energy for some time to come and prevent them from building a force with which to attack Israel.

Hezbollah survived. Nothing else. Well they did manage to kill a few soldiers and civilians but did no real damage to Israel.

I did inhale.

Don January 7, 2007 - 10:33pm

I guess the Israeli citizenry is too stupid to realize when their brilliant leaders have achieved a glorious martial victory because the approval ratings for Olmert and Peretz have been in free fall ever since while the politicos bicker about who's responsible for the fiasco.

And Israel leaders have acknowledged that Hezbollah has already fully replenished their arms.

And if leveling civilian infrastrucure and murdering lots of civilians equals victory I guess we've already won in Iraq and Afghanistan eh?

ran January 7, 2007 - 11:49pm

don't get one shit about average Israels citizens or their opinions. No more than neocons care about the average American. You ain't one of the guys with the money, your opinion doesn't count. Nor does your life.

They'll deny this, but then watch what they do instead of what they say and you'll see.

And you're right. Militarily we won the war in both Afghanistan and Iraq long ago. What we lost is the occupation. And we will continue to lose the occupation until we leave.

Armies fight other armies. They cannot fight civilian populations unless they are willing the level the entire country.

Those that agitate people from these poor countries from the safety of their warm homes are prodding a force capable of doing just that--leveling those countries to the ground.

Both Israel and the United States have tried to conduct these wars while minimializing civilian deaths. Unsuccessfully, I might add, but that was the stated goal.

Believe me when I tell you that you don't want to see the result should the full fury and capability of the United States and Israel be unleashed.

I did inhale.

Don January 8, 2007 - 9:47am

"Both Israel and the United States have tried to conduct these wars while minimializing civilian deaths."

Bullshit.

Israel is running a brutal, illegal and immoral occupation in which they routinely murder civilians with little or no provocation. In Lebanon they showed a similar respect for civilian life - ie none.

The US military's utter lack of fire discipline and tendency to bomb wedding parties, etc. is a major factor in the raging insurgency they now face in Iraq.

So just because either country could turn in the ME into a sheet of glass means we're to believe they're restrained humanitarians because they don't?

ran January 8, 2007 - 11:06am

...the exchange. In isolation I tend to think that they did better from a pure military standpoint than many think they did, but war is not a pure, isolated activity - it's largely a political activity. In the political domain I think they made a massive investment of resources to very little gain. The worst part about it is that if they had used restraint, and set their sights a little lower (i.e., punitive airpower on a more focussed, more limited scale and stripping off Hizbullah's small number of long range systems), they would have come off much better.

And yes, the IDF absolutely would wage limited war over two soldiers if they thought that stood a chance of getting them back, or more importantly, successfully deterred future captures. Clearly there was more at work than just these two soldiers in this campaign, but it wasn't just incidental either.

"We declared war on terror, it's not even a noun, so, good luck. After we defeat it, I'm sure we'll take on that bastard ennui." - Jon Stewart.

JustPlainDave January 8, 2007 - 10:06am

if this is a boxing match and I'm scoring its a hundred to one. OK. I'll give a little. Maybe a hundred to three.

How many troops invaded Israel and threatened their capital? Were Israeli leaders running and hiding to save their lives? Remember the Israeli commandos hitting locations even along the Syrian border? They went where they wanted and kicked ass.

I'm not sympathetic to what the United States or Israel is doing but I'm not going to drink the Kool-aid that tells me these armies have been defeated because I know better.

I did inhale.

Don January 8, 2007 - 10:15am

...freedom of action, so what? If the military force that they apply doesn't serve a viable politico-military strategy, it's pretty much immaterial. I believe it was George Marshall (Chief of Staff of the Army during WWII) that said that if you get the objective right, a lieutenant can write the strategy - they didn't get the objectives right. Their armies may not have been defeated in the field, but they sure don't seem to be achieving their objectives, and that's the metric that matters - armies are only a tool used to achieve objectives.

"We declared war on terror, it's not even a noun, so, good luck. After we defeat it, I'm sure we'll take on that bastard ennui." - Jon Stewart.

JustPlainDave January 8, 2007 - 10:25am

Israel didn't manage to go anywhere they wanted. They were unable to secure more than a few miles from their border. They did some air raids, woopdeedoo.

They made Hezbollah stronger in Lebanon, not weaker and their enemy was and is Hezbollah - not Lebanon.

And, uh, there was never any chance that Hezbollah was going to invade Israel. Zero, zip, nadda.

Ian Welsh January 8, 2007 - 11:47pm

Is EDP. The Republicans are going to throw up all kinds of smoke screen around troops, plans, appropriations - anything to keep the subject from a change of the AUMF and the question of "enduring presence". While shooting down any kind of significant attempt to escalate the war and make a fake counter-insurgency push can be done ad seriatum the question of bases and presence is the one that is the root of the issue.

If people want to get in front of this one "no enduring presence" is the top of the list.

Stirling Newberry January 6, 2007 - 11:48am

...US casualties at the neighborhood level in Baghdad?

"We declared war on terror, it's not even a noun, so, good luck. After we defeat it, I'm sure we'll take on that bastard ennui." - Jon Stewart.

JustPlainDave January 6, 2007 - 1:10pm

even if behind the scenes. Voters no like.

You have got two choices in the USA: Sending the neighbour's son to death in Iraq or pay a double price of gasoline. The choice is clear and it doesn't include paying extra on gasoline. Nobody will be proud of this decision, thus there will be no real political discussion on it.

GOP will continue as the "honorable patriotic" war party and democrat weasels will publicly blame them on the war while simultaneously supporting the war behind the scenes. When the war will be lost, GOP will blame democrats on insufficient support.

-- 101 ways to avoid the subjunctive mood

Gandalf January 6, 2007 - 1:11pm

One last thrust in Iraq

To me it appears there is too much opposition for Bush to send any more troops to Iraq. Sectors of democrats 'and' republicans are against more men being sent.

canuck January 7, 2007 - 8:55am

An influential faction of neoconservatives is behind Bush's expected call for more troops.

See Candy's new post -- the LAT article mentions Kagan as well.

quiet Bill January 7, 2007 - 11:25am

It is certainly conceivable, as Stirling posits, that the real purpose of this escalation of force is to protect the deteriorating supply lines between Baghdad and the airport, as the only way to keep the 50 or so other bases provisioned. For this to be true, the U.S. would have already given up on motorized supply convoys, such as those coming up from Kuwait to Baghdad, and would be using only airlifts to keep the supplies flowing (especially for petroleum). But is this true? Is there any evidence that attacks on the Kuwait-Baghdad route have become so significant as to cause the U.S. to abandon this road altogether?

Another argument in favor of Stirling's interpretation of the surge is that the U.S. may now realize that supporting the current Iraqi government is full of contradictions.

The "surge" is designed to be a joint effort with the al-Maliki government to retake and hold Baghdad. But the al-Maliki government has shown itself either uninterested or unable to confront the Shi'ite militias, which now run rampant in Baghdad along with the insurgents (the Sunni militias). You would think that one of the most sensitive and urgent security responsibilities of the al-Maliki government would have been to control every detail of the execution of Saddam Hussein. What we saw instead was that the Shi'ite militia of Moqtada al Sadr "infiltrated" (to use the government's word) the execution detail of the Ministry of the Interior. Is al-Maliki incapable of controlling his own security forces, or is he in tacit alliance with al Sadr?

Either way, who are the U.S. forces fighting in Bahdad? If they take on the Shi'ite militias, either the Mehdi Army or the SCIRI militia, then effectively the U.S. is fighting the very government it is professing to support. If the U.S. seeks to attack only the Sunni insurgents, then it has decidedly sided with the Shi'ites in this civil war.

No wonder the U.S. hasn't committed to joining the house by house search of Baghdad, and no wonder that the Iraqi government, which has promised to beef up its security forces for this purpose, is bringing in the Kurdish Pesh Merga forces. Having the Kurds enforce security in Baghdad will go over real well with both the Sunnis and the Shi'ites.

As to Fallujah being the template for success (whatever happened to Tal Afar, by the way?), I'll believe it when the U.S. military stops reporting casualties the way they do. Before the Fallujah occupation, casualties there were identified as such. After, the military only says someone was killed in "Anbar Province". We can only imagine what is being hidden by this generality.

Numerian January 7, 2007 - 6:00pm

from the January 08, 2007 edition - http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0108/p06s01-woiq.html

A tougher journey to stock US troops in Iraq

Increased violence is slowing supply lines on which five contractors were kidnapped in November. They appeared unharmed in a video released last week.

By Raymond Barrett | Contributor to The Christian Science Monitor
ABDALY, KUWAIT-IRAQ BORDER

At this dusty border crossing in northern Kuwait, more than 200 18-wheelers wait to cross into Iraq. Braving Sunni insurgents, Shiite militias, and criminal gangs, these trucks are vital links in the supply chain that keeps some 130,000 US military personnel in Iraq afloat.

"Why you come to Iraq? You come again, I kill you," says a Bangladeshi driver, describing the vitriol that he and other contractors supporting the American effort routinely face.

Asked how long he intends to take his chances, he says: "Until I'm dead. I need work, I'll carry on."

A stark reminder of the perilousness of the 400-mile journey from here to a US logistics hub in Iraq came last week in a videotape of five kidnapped security contractors - four Americans and one Austrian. It was the first word from the men since their convoy that originated from this outpost was ambushed on Nov. 16.

The tape was "a good sign" but not one that signals that their release is imminent, says the spokesperson for their employer, Crescent Security Group.

Another American contractor was kidnapped Friday in Basra, according to the US Embassy in Baghdad. The Associated Press reported that the two Iraqis he was traveling with were found dead following the abduction.

Due to such dangers, security is the issue on everybody's lips at the Rabha al-Sahara (Desert Springs) truck stop, within sight of the Abdaly crossing. "It's worse than before ... [the trucks] come under fire more frequently," says a Pakistani businessman who asked not to be identified. He's a logistics operator who leases trucks that are driven into Iraq.

Last month, at least 113 US service members were killed, making December the deadliest month in 2006. The month also saw the death of more than 1,900 Iraqi civilians.

The rise in violence has affected the flow of convoys traveling into the country. "[There are usually] eight movements in a day, but nowadays it's reduced to five. In one movement there are about 45 trucks," the businessman says.

Multinationals such as the Kuwait-based Public Warehouse Company that transport fuel, food, and water receive first priority to the limited number of convoys escorted by the US military. Fuel is then distributed to army bases around Iraq by Halliburton-subsidiary KBR, also under US military protection.

Smaller logistics operators often depend on organizations such as Crescent Security Group. The Pakistani logistics operator says, however, that his drivers often don't like to travel with private security companies and prefer US military escorts. "[The private groups] use ... Silverados or F-350s, while the Army has fully armored gun trucks and Humvees."

To be sure, the high value of the cargo makes these convoys targets for criminal gangs. A truck can carry between $30,000 to $200,000 worth of cargo - the most expensive loads being generators or four-wheel-drive vehicles. The importance of Kuwait as a logistics hub for the coalition forces in Iraq cannot be overstated. Camp Arifjan in southern Kuwait is the main staging area for troops and supplies deploying to Iraq.

"The supply line from Kuwait is absolutely crucial. You cannot supply the level that is required by air," says Paul Rodgers, professor of peace studies at Bradford University in West Yorkshire, England, who has written monthly security briefings on Iraq since 2003.

And with the possibility of increasing US forces by some 20,000 combat troops seeming more likely, the supply route from Kuwait will be ever more vital. "A very big proportion of the food and water [used by the US military] comes from Kuwait," says Robert Soussa, the managing director of Kuwait & Gulf Link Transport Co., a group heavily involved in this logistics business.

"There are hundreds of fuel tankers a day ... shared between many companies. They don't have many [petrol] refineries in Iraq, the Kuwait government supplies them with petrol," he says.

Regarding protection for their convoys, Mr. Soussa says that the security companies they hire depend on local Iraqis for safe passage. "They have connections on the ground, they recruit from local tribes, you must create jobs for these people."

Soussa adds that the upsurge in violence has impacted the logistics business. "Because of the incidents in Iraq, they have reduced the number of trucks [per convoy]," he says.

This reduction was also confirmed by a US contractor, who has driven trucks inside Iraq. US Department of Labor statistics show at least 650 American contractors have been killed inside Iraq.

Professor Rodgers says that a more substantial US combat presence in Iraq could cause insurgents to avoid direct confrontation and intensify attacks on supply lines.

"In the longer term, they [insurgents] may respond [to a troop surge] by attacking the supplies, rather than the troops themselves," he says.

Tina January 7, 2007 - 7:36pm

A simple approach to explain the phenomena that is Lieberman would be to embrace the conspiracy theories of the Illuminati, the Zionists and other New World Order concepts. Somehow even if none of these organizations exist they still explain the Joe's political allegance.

Lasthorseman January 7, 2007 - 7:37pm

If the US gets the oil, and enough safe corridors to allow permanent bases to be removed from Saudi Arabia, in what real sense is this a rout? I would say "the American public doesn't want to leave Iraq without anything to show for it but wants to get out soon" is the message of the last election.


"at some point I'm hopeful I'll figure out something to put here"

nymole January 8, 2007 - 1:10pm

...withdrawn from Saudi already?

"If a problem has no solution, it may not be a problem, but a fact, not to be solved, but to be coped with over time." - Shimon Perez [ironic, no?]

JustPlainDave January 8, 2007 - 3:31pm

...there's about 400 personnel in Saudi providing training and technical expertise. That's down significantly from the approx. 7,000 during the period of the no fly zones. My sense is that the present levels are about on par with the pre-Desert Storm norm, but that's just a gut sense thing.

"If a problem has no solution, it may not be a problem, but a fact, not to be solved, but to be coped with over time." - Shimon Perez [ironic, no?]

JustPlainDave January 8, 2007 - 10:04pm

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