both parties are rotten. its time to start something else, join the greens, the SPD something. no dont vote democratic UNLESS that candidate actually embraces our values. other wise vote for someone else.

Glenn left out what McClatchy Newspapers reported yesterday --

Dems Unlikely to Repeal Bush Tax Cuts

***
Predictions:

There will be a 'lame duck' session of Congress between November's election and January, when new 'servants of the people' are sworn in.

The Dems seem to be planning to surrender to the GOP and extend the Bush tax cuts for a year, two, five, or forever.

They will also use this session to approve whatever comes out of the Cat Food Commission.

The first order of business come January will be total obstructionism on the part of the GOP, even unto shutting down the Federal government by refusing to fund the annual general allocations bill if it contains anything for the new Healthcare bill.

Neither from the Democrats nor the Republicans will we see governance, just looting for their patrons.

You go and create the conditions that you can control and build from there:

http://www.ianwelsh.net/what-could-obama-have-done-and-what-can-obama-still-do/#comment-9621

See if there might be an idea that could be worked with. Usually when a coalition is required in parliamentary government, the coalition partner has the power to keep the greater partner in check from attempting politically damaging policy. There needs be about five political parties in the US, no one capable of governing by themselves. Saves boatloads of corruption in government when others can pull the plug on power.

For me the dominant feeling today is reflection, two years ago today, Democratic & Republican politicians combined their forces of greasiness to foist a disgusting martial law live exercise upon us in Minnesota - the 2008 Republican National Convention - and we are still living with the aftershocks, coverups and criminal deviant lawyer evilness. And Tim Kaine was just here scoping it for the 2012 Democratic National Convention, God Forbid.

My ol friend from college days ran for chair of TX Democratic Party - http://www.mikebarnes2010.com/ - possibly an incurable optimist.

Good point from arnie, as 5 parties would keep a lot of nasty rackets from setting in. Independent candidacies can force the major party candidates to acknowledge the issues and bring the issues into the agenda.

The obnoxious thing is that voting is sort of like consenting to the mess, thus to withhold the vote is to withdraw the consent.

The trick is to intervene in such a way as to block bad agendas from advancing. If you want to obtain something tangible, consider volunteering with some groups to knock around at the TX state legislature when it's in session? It's pretty gratifying to wreck a horrible agenda at the state level.

Finally... as Bucky Fuller said "“You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” .... so go do that & it'll feel a lot better than groaning about getting sold out by professional greasers! :-D
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Hongpong.com

I've worked in campaigns for people I didn't particularly care for because the opposition was just frightening. I stopped that a while ago. I still vote and I'll vote for the sleepwalker the candidate if they're a few degrees better than the crazy. But no more work, no more money.

When it comes to democracy in the United States, our rulers think so little of it that vote counting is done in secret on "last in class" technology by privately held firms started by right win zealots or extreme right Republicans. The public is legally barred from any review of this private "magic" vote counting. The Democrats think so little of democracy and the right of people to verify their elections, they won't even take on this issue. In fact, the Democrats deride those who call for transparent elections and point out the long history of election fraud in this country. They are not serious people.

For that major reason and all those you listed, you are right on target. Those who say that forthright analysis should be tempered by sympathy for the sleepwalkers are sleepwalkers themselves.

Rock on!

While I am profoundly disappointed with Obama and the Democratic leadership, if the right wing gets back in power, I think it could get much worse than most people imagine. For one thing, if the Republicans gain back the White House, they will definitely start another war as soon as possible. And then they will use the war as an excuse to further attack civil liberties at home. I really think people underestimate the depth of insanity of the right wing today. I think people like Dick Cheney and his crowd basically have the mentality of David Koresh--they would rather burn the place down then let the "mongrel hordes" take over. I think it is most likely that Dick Cheney and friends were secretly pleased with BP Gulf oil explosion. It doesn't matter how many people were harmed or how much wildlife was destroyed; if it hurt Obama, then they were for it.

As far as not voting for the Democrats, I remember this argument during the campaign between Al Gore and George W. Bush. But if Gore had won the election, I am sure there would have been a lot to complain about, but the unimaginable stupidity of the useless war in Iraq would have been avoided. In the same way, as disappointing as Obama has been, a McCain presidency would have been 10x worse.

There is a story from the Civil War that I like very much. As most Agonist readers probably know, Lincoln was endlessly frustrated trying to find a Union general who was capable of carrying the fight to the rebel army. At one point, he recalled General McClennan and put him in charge of the army for the third time, despite the fact that McClennan had shown a reluctance to attack the rebels on the two previous occasions when he had been in charge. When Lincoln was asked why he was putting McClennan in charge of the army once again, he replied, "We must use the tools we have."

It's a grim situation, but I still think it's better to vote than not to vote.

Update: Regarding Sean's point about voting for an alternative candidate, my opinion is that there is too much at stake at the national level right now. On the state and local level, I think it is probably a good thing.

I thought, this guy might just be another FDR!

After awhile, I thought, well maybe not another FDR, but maybe another JFK.

After awhile, I thought, maybe not JFK, but how about an LBJ?

Now I'm wishing Obama could be another Bill Clinton.

What a fucking letdown.
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Cows get milked, rubes get bilked,
And fat cats dine on fools and cream.

1) The issue isn't whether the think tanks named have directly spawned policy that is or isn't disaster. The issues are [primarily] whether superficial stuff like that seen in the original post constitutes an effective counter to counseled disaster and [secondarily] whether there's anything in what they do that makes a useful contribution. CFR I know the best and they qualify on the second criterion - at a minimum - in spades.

2) I don't care how good one thinks one's analysis is - one can always make a more substantive contribution by fostering thoughtful contribution from others. The one liners, MHO, significantly hinder that. My commentary wasn't calling onto the carpet - it's a question from a potential dialogue partner. The strength of the place has always been that dialogue between opposing viewpoints is fostered here and when the nature of the posts changes over a sustained period such that that dialogue is lessened, I tend to think it reasonable to ask whether that's still the point of the endeavour. If it is - and I hope that it is - be aware that from the perspective of this long term virtual resident, it's become a lot less evident.

“The absence of any US-Iran bilateral channel...may have the perverse effect of reinforcing Iranian interest in progressing in the nuclear realm so that the US will be forced to take it seriously and engage it directly." ~ Richard Haass

It is simply the Republican strategy to obstruct everything all the time. In the absence of any compromise or, right now, reasoned thinking a number of areas are blocked from being accomplished. People get angry at who? Those in power. So the Republican strategy is working. They block judicial appointments, closing gitmo, moving on immigration reform, expanding healthcare options, etc. etc. They blocked a small business incentive bill in June, and they blocked unemployment insurance payments in July that likely made the current economy worse. Why? Because democrats are hurt with a weaker economy. So democrats play into the trap by being angry. It is the explicit republican strategy.

That said, there is no libertarian tradition in the United States. None is taking hold. It's silly. Also there is absolutely no party, or movement that gains any traction from illogic and stupidity. The abolitionist, worker organizing, union, suffragist, civil rights movements, gay rights, were all built on a core intellectual creation of what these movements were. Some for decades, some for 80 years, some for 100s of years. Liberalism is perhaps 600 years of intellectual thought. Modern conservatism in the United States is perhaps 70 years old, and essentially dead in the last four to eight years. The neoconservative movement is perhaps 40 years in the making and very bereft of any intellectual underpinning. The Religious right is intellectually vacuous, and the Tea Party almost celebrates their idiocy. Every democratic administration gets its countervaling right wing 'Movement' they have for 70 years, and every one of them flame out, are gone, disgraced, without any intellectual underpinning whatsoever.

As to the Republican Party, or any party in U.S. history, none survives a movement AWAY from the center.

And Progress comes from the emerging movements themselves. The movements do the heavy lifting. Civil rights in the 60's, or gay rights today. Immigrants will craft the immigration reform through intellectual discourse, pluck, fight, protest, and craft the solution. It's not chest beating, it is learned discourse. Studies that show the US ADVANTAGE in its acceptance of immigrants, that immigration ADDS perhaps 1% to GDP growth annually. There is right now a think tank working on legislation that would provide special rapid Visa for those immigrants that will come to the US and buy a house. It shows that this legislation alone could stabilize the housing markets.

That is real reform.

As to the Republican party, that it has become so damaged itself is perplexing. One must ask, how it happened or why. Its decline goes a long long way, but the demographic drain is a huge part and since Hoover the Republican party has used the white southern strategy, a loose coalition of whites, the south and evangelical christians or movement christians or dominion christians (palin). But it is falling apart because demographics is tearing it apart.

Republicans will move to the center again, every party that goes off in one direction suffers a series of losses. Republicans suffered huge defeats in 2006 and 2008, but they did not moderate. There will be continued defeats until they do. The movement away from Republicans is inexorable. If Republicans make gains in 2010, it is not from gains, but from low turnout. I am still on record that the polling and press cannot fully capture younger voters anymore, but we will see. I would be amazed if Republicans gained either the house or senate.

And in 2012, the demographic trends and the republican foolishness will hurt them badly, again, in what is a full turnout election. Republicans again lose and may at this point finally move to the center. At this point some real progress can be made in a lot of areas, and the movement will be inexorable.

The Tea party is nothing but noise, foolishness, a celebration of idiocy. It's like creationism. And we've had dozens of tea parties. The KKK, brown shirts, McCarthyism, the moral majority, the family council, each one rearing its head and then fading in disgrace. It's like clockwork. They form around any democratic administration or congress, and always burn out because there are no roots, no thought, no intellectual underpinning. They get some backwind because the economy is weak, but that's all it is.

Noise.

They will fade fast. Palin is a joke, she will wear her welcome out. There is nothing there.

The trends play out, over and over. The progress is made, the new ideas emerge, the good ones stick. We look around one day and slaves are no more, the women are voting, we have a 40 hour work week, our elderly have healthcare and some financial support. We look around and say - how did that happen?

In ten years we will find EVERYBODY is insured, we have universal healthcare; gay people can get married, and pot is legal. We will all scratch our heads and say when did that happen, and it will be on to other issues. In twenty years we will be paying immigrants to come here because of labor shortages. Progress is as inexorable as it is hard to see on any given day.

I, for one, am amazed at the progress we have made.

Umm, I don't have the chance to vote up or down on Obama until the 2012 primary. You vote the ballot they hand you.

Maybe there is a Texas Congressional incumbent in trouble somewhere, but damned if I've heard it. I live in the Texas 24th, currently owned by Kenny Marchant, Republican, the second richest man in the Texas delegation. And he will continue to occupy the seat after November. Near as I can tell, the local Democratic Party is running a potted plant in opposition. So it's rather cheap and easy for me to not vote Democratic. It would just inflate his vote total.

I have one elected Democrat between my doorstep and Obama's at the White House. This kick-ass Democratic majority dismantling the Republicans and implementing the liberal agenda we so wish for...what's it like? Because I have known little-to-nothing of it in my voting lifetime (and it's not for lack of trying). What fresh hell this must be for all of you, but I don't seem to recall sunny shores before.

So I can directly or indirectly enable the semi-delusional, semi-maniacs of the Republican Party by withholding my vote for the only viable alternative on this ballot, the one right here, right now. Or, vote for an idiot and possible sell-out and ride his or her ass for the next two years to support my agenda. Hmmm, I don't like either option, but at least with the idiot we might just muddle through. I choose the muddle.

Doesn't feel too good, but democracy is hard.

We're in a bus that is barreling down a muddy slope towards a cliff. Two people are in the front seats - one is batshit nuts and wants to steer into a tree or step on the gas to go over the edge, the other despite good intentions is frozen with fear and unable to steer or do anything to correct the course. The folks in the back get to choose which sits in the driver seat. Now the question is does it really matter who we pick? There is no third candidate for the job (let's say it's a prison bus and there is a grating between front and back), it's either crazy fool or frozen impotent. Fast or slow, gas or brake, you're most likely going over this cliff.

From the back seat, we can instruct how to keep the bus on the slope, or turn back to the road, or whatever, but ultimately we cannot control the vehicle ourselves. One of these two will have to do it. Some people like crazy brave fool because at least he'll do something, some people like deer in the headlights because at least he isn't a maniac, some people don't give a crap because either choice is going to take you over that edge.

The part here that I can't believe is how much time and energy the people in the back spend yelling at each other and not trying to get the hell out of the bus.

I'm with all those turning their backs on the two major parties.

I feel certain that if McCain had won the election, we would have already bombed Iran, they would have already responded or be in the process of shutting down the Persian Gulf with some of our aircraft carriers sunk and the oil fleet grounded.
War is the ultimate bubble economy and it looks like Iraq really wasn't enough. The ante needs to be upped.
That is probably what will happen if Obama is replaced by a wing nut in 2012. Imagine no oil except for the police and military and the economy really shut down and the Heimatsicherheitsdienst looking for traitors.
It can get a lot worse.

you say it better than I can.