But America Is Too Big

One of the more common objections to building a high speed rail network across the country is that America is just too big, too suburban, too spread out. The Chinese are disproving this excuse, and once again eating our lunch in the bargain:

Nationwide, China’s railways will likely handle 210 million journeys during the on-going 40-day spring festival travel period, as migrant workers head home for the Lunar New Year holidays, according to the official People’s Daily. . . . High-speed railways will connect all of China’s provincial capitals and cities with more than 500,000 citizens by 2020, serving more than 90 percent of the population, the Ministry of Railways said.

Here's the real reason we don't have a high speed rail network:

“The high-speed train is invincible on this route,” said Tom Lin, 30, a civil servant in Guangzhou, who opted to travel by rail. “There’s no doubt it’s more convenient for trips to the cities along the line. Airlines can’t compete with trains for the spacious seats.”

In Texas Southwest Airlines lobbied very hard to kill a proposed Dallas, San Antonio, Houston network. Once Americans realize that traveling by train takes about the same amount of time--after security checks, ticketing and whatnot--and that trains are just more comfortable and safer than planes they might change their mind.

Then again, I'm not holding my breath.

Sean Paul Kelley February 10, 2010 - 3:41pm

Sean Paul Kelley's diary | printer friendly version |

( categories: China )

When I have business ...

... in Montreal or Ottawa I have the choice between plane or train. If I have the time to spare the latter always wins out. So much more comfortable and this is even true for these rather ancient trains they run over here.

quax February 10, 2010 - 4:13pm

There used to be an overnight VIA sleeper

train between Toronto and Montreal (or vice versa). You left the departure city in the evening, slept in the sleeping compartment and arrived in the early morning in time for business. The idea was combine travel and lodging in the one ticket. Since it really didn't take all night for the journey, they stopped the train at a midpoint to ensure people who were not used to sleeping on a moving train actually got some sleep. It was really a very civilized way to make the trip.

“I despise ideologues masquerading as objective journalists.” - Bill O'Reilly, March 30, 2007

Mark February 10, 2010 - 11:23pm

I'd give that a try ...

... assuming it'll also make the Oshawa stop. Closer for me to get to that station.

quax February 10, 2010 - 11:26pm

HSR sort-of

Obama actually got $8 billion from the stimulus into HSR. Really for emerging HSR which is 110mph on existing right-of-way. To do 110 you need protected, but not separated, crossings and PTC, Positive Train Control, which is in-cab signaling. That money is being spread out around the country partly for political reasons. This is all on existing right-of-ways.

After they get 110 up and running you then electrify and add tilt trains to get up to 125 and even 150 in some cases. Those speeds and scheduling opportunities cover operating costs.

After that you build the bridges to separate the crossings and you build dedicated track, again often within existing ROW, with smoother curves. Now you have your 220mph segments that cover operating costs as well as the bonds that built them or future extensions.

I covered this in a diary here a bit back:
http://agonist.org/jeff_wegerson/20100120/two_things_the_obama_regime_has_done_right#new

Jeff Wegerson February 10, 2010 - 4:29pm

Tilting Trains

Were tried in the UK, because of winding rights of ways. There were reports of a problem whit the passengers & motion sickness.

Is this now resolved?

Synoia February 10, 2010 - 5:12pm

I have no idea.

I just keep seeing references to them so I assume that they are used and have a realistic role. I'll keep an eye out for that issue as I read.

Jeff Wegerson February 10, 2010 - 5:18pm

In Germany I rode these things back in the 90s.

That was when I lived in beautiful Bayreuth. The train connection to Nuernberg had a lot of curves because of the mountainous terrain. Tilt technology was the only way to get more speed with the existing tracks. Never caught any motion sickness nor was this regarded as an issue back then. At any rate these trains are not exactly new and the technology should be rather mature at this point - although twenty years ago (cannot believe it has been that long) they still broke down more often then the regular trains. From Nuernberg on I was able to catch a high speed ICE train. Couldn't make it home faster by car even on German highways without speed limit.

quax February 10, 2010 - 5:28pm

For some reason I think

the Chinese purloined the technology from the Germans. I recall reading something about 6 years ago on it.

http://mauberly.blogspot.com/

mauberly February 10, 2010 - 6:42pm

Germany did actually not pioneer the ...

... technology. In fact when it was first tried in my country it worked so poorly they totally lost interest until the Italian Pendelino proofed its viability. Wikipedia has a nice summary about the tilting train history.

quax February 10, 2010 - 10:08pm

Sorry, I was thinking of the Maglev

but the article noted makes no mention of any theft:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_China

So let me cancel my errant thought.

http://mauberly.blogspot.com/

mauberly February 10, 2010 - 11:25pm

China purchased the German maglev train.

Wikipedia has a nice article on this Transrapid train. As well as its first commercial implementation that occurred - of course where else these days - in China.

You are actually right in observing that there have been some concerns that China may use these projects to steal know-how and clone the Transrapid. Time will tell. I am just glad to see that this cool technology is finally put to use.

Transrapid was a constant sob story and political football in Germany. After this technology was brought to maturity with some hefty input from the German tax payers the rail operators didn't want it because it'll cannibalize their existing network.

When funding of this technology started it was believed that the conventional wheel and track concept could never scale to the speeds we see today. Back then nobody anticipated the advances is material science that allows for steel wheels to tolerate the enormous mechanical stresses. Nevertheless the worst high speed train accident to date demonstrated that the wheels are still the Achilles heel of today systems.

quax February 11, 2010 - 12:58pm

Is that an urban legend?

I have never heard that, thus I think that it is made up story.

But they have another real problem in the UK. Double floor trains do not fit in their Victorian tunnels.

_{-- Do you feel bad for Obama? He’s the president — he kind of asked for it.}

Singular February 10, 2010 - 9:03pm

Yes the Rail stock

Is much smaller than the US because of the small tunnels.

The UK was building trial titling trains in the '70s. Because of the winding lines the movement of the horizon was reported to make passengers fell ill. Or it could have been the BritRail sandwiches.

Synoia February 10, 2010 - 9:42pm

Trips under 300 miles

Are quicker by Car than by Air. Suburban sprawl is train unfriendly.

As suburbs die, trains with their City center stations will become a feasible as Europe & China.

I used to drive from Richardson, TX to Austin, TX about 200 miles in 3 to 4 hours. Cheaper and quicker than flying, renting a car, and all the airport hassle.

Synoia February 10, 2010 - 5:11pm

Shopping malls

Suburban sprawl is train unfriendly.

Yes, but shopping malls in the middle of nowhere have the same problem. Combine a railway stop and a shopping mall with a big parking area.

_{-- Do you feel bad for Obama? He’s the president — he kind of asked for it.}

Singular February 10, 2010 - 9:15pm

The Chinese are disproving so many things

Especially Capitalism = Freedom

Joaquin February 10, 2010 - 5:38pm

Capitalism

Capitalism = Freedom to Pillage = Tyranny.

Synoia February 10, 2010 - 9:43pm

My daughter was able to

My daughter was able to travel by train from Paris to London faster than I could travel by air Dublin to London.

High-speed rail is the way to go! But I totally agree: don't hold your breath for its adoption in this country.

tehBrynn February 10, 2010 - 8:28pm

Warren Buffet sunk some $$$$ in rail

back in November

graham February 11, 2010 - 1:03am

Sunspots

Really serious solar storms can cause long electrical tracks like power lines and trains to become giant commutators: massive voltages hit the lines and have nowhere to go. Long high-voltage rail lines would be a disaster.

We seem to be in a quiet time for solar storms, and we don't know how long it will last.

Sunnstein is the new Godwin

Tonsure Wimple February 11, 2010 - 3:21am

Two points

1. Electrified tracks are build in segments. Electrically isolated from each other.
2. A commutator in a DC motor or generator is a switch for the windings on the rotor. The technically correct term would be linear generator.

Long distance electrified tracks exist. South Africa is electrified, and it's 1100 km from Joburg to Cape Town.

Synoia February 11, 2010 - 8:07am

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