Just appoint a Special Prosecutor and let them go to work. Congress will just politicize it and make it more divisive. Besides, too many of them have something to hide also.

... still has a soul. I was very pleasantly surprised by this.

I'm still not entirely convinced that Smith's rant wasn't calculated disinformation.

... but if his disgust is acted he should consider an acting career. I especially liked how he pushed himself away from the desk at the end - emphasizing his disagreement by wanting to put physical space between himself and the other guys.

I wished the bagnewsnotes.com guy was doing videos as well as photos. His psychologically schooled observation would come in handy.

The Taliban are despicable who in their right mind would think otherwise?

...n=0. They do hold a number of western non-combatants. Though I've never heard any definitive numbers, given the nature of the conflict and its traditions, I should be not be surprised if they hold moderate numbers (tens to hundreds) of Afghan and Pakistani nationals.

“The absence of any US-Iran bilateral channel...may have the perverse effect of reinforcing Iranian interest in progressing in the nuclear realm so that the US will be forced to take it seriously and engage it directly." ~ Richard Haass

Other symptoms include preemptive war (illegal aggression), enhanced interrogation (torture), acceptance of collateral damage (civilian casualties on a massive scale), deterrence (threat of use of weapons of mass destruction), free market capitalism (corporatocracy, economic imperialism and neocolonialism), conservative "hardball" politics (demonization of domestic opposition), corporate media (propaganda), national security (global hegemony), proliferation of American values (imposition of US policy), and all the other standard tactics, justified in the name of patriotism, self-preservation, and exceptionalism by the US right.

These are symptoms of a social pathology that affects a society when it becomes widespread enough to rise to power. But because it is corrosive, it either becomes self-destructive from within, like the Southern strategy of the Republican Party, or is conquered externally, like the Axis powers.

Social pathology is a psychological disease that needs to be treated before it goes viral and becomes an epidemic that destroys the society. The current problem is that a significant portion of the public seems to be in denial of this disease, and much of the media is enabling it by giving its symptoms credence instead of naming the syndrome for what it is.

How do you treat a large fraction of a nation having hundreds of millions population? How do you "re-educate" ossified minds? How do you manage to be heard by those unwilling to hear? How do you incarcerate a nation filled with madmen?

Already bifurcation has happened, there are two incompatible histories, irreconcilable memories, mutually incomprehensible mindsets, and divergent meanings of speech neither with a dictionary of the other and are only capable of shrieking at one another. Look at what is presented on corporate media, that should provide evidence enough that the myth of building Babel is repeating as the American Empire is being imposed. The center has collapsed, the battle is being lost, the war will not last much longer, and the nation is in terminal peril. A house divided - was once the image conjured.

The big problem with socio-political diseases is that the disease is a psychological one, similar to addiction. Those who are addicted are in denial of their addiction, and it is a difficult but necessary part of treatment to get them to recognize their addiction before it consumes them and those around them.

Those around them are also at risk. The family of an addict is often co-dependent, and the addict requires this co-dependency to enable his or her addiction. This link of co-dependency that enables the addict must also be broken.

Rightists are extreme nationalists that are addicted to their corrosive presumptions that will eventually undermine the nation from within. In order to be successful, they require that a significant portion of the population that is not afflicted with this disease to enable their addiction. Rightists attempt to do this by making as much of the population co-dependent as possible, using psychological triggers such as fear of enemies, on one hand, and national pride, on the other.

This is a well known syndrome and has been studied in depth, psychologically, socially, and politically, e.g., the authoritarian personality syndrome based on dominant-submissive relationships. How such diseases arise and how to treat them is well-understood. There is no magic bullet in the form of a pill. It requires clarity, acknowledgement, responsibility, and ultimately accountability. People who cannot handle the responsibilities of freedom are eventually deprived of it. This is also true of a people (nation).

Thosel who are concerned about these unwholesome developments need to stand up, speak out, and be heard. Silence implies consent. For example, hundreds of thousands took part in anti-war demonstrations during the Vietnam era, and often millions were involved on a single day in various part of the country. That may not be happening now, but the numbers on the net are comparable, and they are having an effect.

President Obama had apparently planned to sweep the torture thing under the rug by not investigating and prosecuting, but public outcry seems to have caused him to rethink his position. Now, he seems to be putting the matter in the hands of the AG and Congress, where it belongs.

Voices add up. Tell it like it is.

There is no doubt in my mind that what you are advocating is the right thing to do.

Yet, what I think will help in the long run - a "third healing scenario" so to speak - is the possibility that the "diseased parts" may eventually just be outgrown by more healthy demographics.

The US has always been is a state of demographic flux. Already we've seen recent immigrants largely favoring the Democrats over Republicans. I think the Republican party degenerating into a regional party of Limbaugh listening Southerners will accelerate this trend.

One place to look is post-war II Germany although it would be an imperfect model for what pathologic illness besets the hyper-power. Although each of the allies had differing approaches to administrating their zones of occupation, the effective terminating of the National Socialist mindset in the population was remarkably successful. There was a combination of legal proscription as well as the creation of social pariah status for those maintaining the mindset (plus a hell of a lot of propaganda extolling both the evils of the nazis and the brilliance of democracy, through all media; Göebbels would have been proud of the efficacy produced by commercial advertisements).

A similar application is required in the hyper-power aimed at the authoritarian mindset, both leaders and followers that have given rise to fantasies of empire. This is the social aberration that must be terminated if the republic is to survive in that form and must be treated with the same skill and firmness as was used in Germany after the war. The idea that the merging of corporate and government is an answer is unacceptable as it is dangerous. Even Adam Smith in "The Wealth of Nations" states unequivocally: "The government of an exclusive company of merchants (corporation) is, perhaps, the worst of all governments for any country whatever" (my parenthesis) when speaking of the prosperity of new colonies, recognizing self-serving corporate agenda as being counterproductive to good governing principle.

Since the state of education is in collapse from faulty financing, the goal of ignorance in fueling authoritarian agendas, the reestablishment of education with the priority of social, political, historically focused, and economic education (a primer in law and contracts being invaluable as well) would go far in curbing the authoritarian agenda or those parts that are not amenable to the light of exposure (as most of the propaganda is prone to disappear or wither before facts). Only in this way can demographic change work to eliminate the diseased parts of the population from reproducing, time itself is a poor antidote to myth.

It will be of vital importance to brand the leaders of the authoritarian movement, the propagandists for, the corporate sponsors of and the politicians who have profited from the authoritarian movement with treason and eliminate their access to political power, best by legal methods, but certainly by effective methods. Silencing their voices is required, their abuse and subversion of the political discourse necessary for a republic is prima facie evidence for their failure to fulfill their political responsibilities to the public. Banishing their participation in public discourse should be the price of their treason.

The country has ceased communicating between factions, a house divided, cannot continue. Either a Republic is a desired environment to conduct public business or some other form of governance must replace it. As things stand now, a corporate oligarchy, a plutocracy of industrial wealth and a political aristocracy have combined and have usurped the power of the Republic for their own agendas and ends. Time is now to awaken to these facts and decide if this is the desired end for the Republic, if not, to resist that end, no one else can or will do it.

5 years ago, i read hare's "Without Conscience". later, i read "Snakes In Suits".

http://hare.org

http://hare.org/scales/

Dr. Hare has spent over 35 years researching psychopathy and is the developer of the Hare Psychopathy Checklist-Revised (PCL-R), and a co-author of its derivatives, the Psychopathy Checklist: Screening Version (PCL:SV), the P-Scan, the Psychopathy Checklist: Youth Version (PCL:YV), and the Antisocial Process Screening Device (APSD). He is also a co-author of the Guidelines for a Psychopathy Treatment Program. The Hare Psychopathy Checklist-Revised, with demonstrated reliability and validity, is rapidly being adopted worldwide as the standard instrument for researchers and clinicians. The PCL-R and PCL:SV are strong predictors of recidivism, violence and response to therapeutic intervention. They play an important role in most recent risk-for-violence instruments. The PCL-R was reviewed in Buros Mental Measurements Yearbook (1995), as being the "state of the art" both clinically and in research use. In 2005, the Buros Mental Measurements Yearbook review listed the PCL-R as "a reliable and effective instrument for the measurement of psychopathy and is considered the 'gold standard' for measurement of psychopathy.

not everyone has the emotions of conscience and i imagine there's a gradient scale of such. over the years i concluded 'evolutionarily speaking, one pattern's as legitimate as another'. either we recognize such a portion of our or anybody's population as legitimate (as far as representation and participation in governance is concerned) or we recognize them as ill and screen for such as far as governmental work goes. (via MRI if necessary.) the added factor of power intoxication and power addiction nearly dictates so.

with all that said, and strongly felt and believed, i would add that as we all ought know, things do not boil down simply, and psychopathy, or socialpathy if you will (yes, definitions are called for), is not the only, or even central, criterion of integrity and certainly not a simple litmus test.

lord knows though, it is long overdue as a pertinent subject for light rather than denial, true true true. i am afraid it went viral a long time ago. i am afraid society has already been greatly eviscerated by it. not to say beyond point of repair. perhaps such point is what you meant by destroyed.

--

i just finished watching otto preminger's 1962 "Advise And Consent". 2 hours, 17 minutes. the special features were even longer by 3 minutes. much was made over it's controversial portrayal of american politics despite it's being watered down from drury's novel. little in it speaks to this topic, nor needs to for this point: politics is dirty business, pure and simple.
  the movie was a reflection of the times and the times prior with commie witch-hunting still hotly practiced in the 60s as it was in the 50s. machiavellian fear-mongering is as prevalent and pervasive as it is repugnant and contemptible. the charles laughton character, a south carolina senator, spoke of american pride and dignity. well, we know what happened to that, much of it has been lost in it's name.

things are in one way simpler now that we're in a debate on torture. can you imagine!? a national debate on it's pros and cons! obama may say one thing then another and do another and therein we do remain in debate. things like fox's 24 make it worse, bringing in the cultural flux and milieu. for all that psychopathy adds to our problems, there is way much more beneath even that monumental difficulty. monumental? mountainous. but still, so much more troubles the world. i mean to say even if we did screen out all verifiable psychopaths from governance, what difference would it make? enough to notice? probably. but still... but i'm damned well all for such considerations.

eom

What's with Americans that they cannot admit flaws? Put past history behind them, forgive themselves and just get on with life without repeating mistakes.

Freedom (rights) implies responsibility, and responsibility implies accountability. This is about rights and responsibilities, and accountability therefor — not expediency, as many without principle would have it.

It is about the rule of law not of men. "Equality" means absence of privilege. Privilege implies a double standard in the application of the law. Equality before the law is enshrined in the US Constitution. It is not optional.

There are soldiers in the brig serving long sentences for torturing prisoners at Abu Ghraib. No one is talking about letting them off the hook even through they were railroaded, since they were "just following orders." The precedent has been established. Now those who gave the orders should follow them, since it is well established that these were not the actions of a few bad apples but coordinated orders emanating from the top of the chain of command.

Democracy depends on the rule of law and equality before the law. So far, we are seeing neither in the case of either war crimes or financial malfeasance, and indeed crimes.

What we are seeing instead is the setting up of a double-standard in which some are more equal than other before the law. That undermines liberal democracy and is corrosive to the social order.

Oh, and by the way, all officers of government from the president on down take an oath to uphold the law. This is not a option after one has taken the oath. Even though the president is a constitutional law professor, he seems to be confused about this based on what he is saying. However, given his testimony today, the AG gets it. I hope he will enforce the law or resign if prevented.

how far back in administrations are you prepared to go in adherence to those oaths? Would there be any Americans left to govern the country if prosecutors were given free reign to dig through files?

Crimes are required to be investigated and prosecuted if offenses are found to have been committed and a case can be made until the statute of limitations runs out.

Of course, this does not always happen, but that's the law. Too often the law is applied selectively to those without influence while those with influence are never charged. That is a double standard that should be unacceptable in a civilized country under the rule of law such as the US. We aren't there yet. But arguing that a class of alleged criminals who committed war crimes should be let off because it's politically expedient makes a mockery of law.

Or, to put it another way, why don't we stop having public officials take oaths, or just repeal the equality provisions of the law of the land. It amounts to the same thing if the law and oaths to uphold are essentially meaningless.

Torture furor threatens to derail Obama agenda
Left and right each stake out positions, assail President
(snip)

Now Mr. Obama can only hope that the torture issue eventually blows itself out, allowing Congress and the administration to move ahead with his agenda.

Past experience, however, suggests that nothing incites ideologues of all stripes like a knock-'em-down fight over who did what in the ‘war on terror.'

---

Have you listened to a radio lately? The right is having a field day and so too is the left that would cripple this administration who according to the previous link that I posted is also guilty? Is there anyone with clean hands?

The Nuremberg trials went after responsible people, it did not try the entire German population--world opinion already had done that and it just isn't feasible to put thousands of people on trial. Trying President Bush would mean going through thousands to get to him because of strong opposition. The US Senate who don't have a strong mandate would not be able to pass any legislation.

Before the elections, indeed for much the Bush administration, I have been arguing that the most pressing challenge facing America is the constitutional crisis raised by Bush's de facto coup d'etat that the GOP attempted to make de jure through a variety of means, including packing the courts with ultra-conservatives.

Unless and until these issues are addressed and resolved, it can no longer be claimed that America is a liberal democracy under the rule of law.

In comparison, everything else is expediency. Everything.

This doesn't mean that everything must stop in the meanwhile. It's possible to walk and chew gum, too.

It does means getting priorities straight. Governments can do a lot of thing simultaneously, like fight two wars and deal with an unprecedented financial crisis gone viral, while also tackling future challenges like education, health care and energy. We can solve our constitutional crisis at the same time, too.

... Canadian officials are taking the rule of law a bit more serious than this. Part of the reason I came to Canada is because I could no longer stand looking at W stickers on cars in my NC neighborhoods knowing that at the same time US soldiers and CIA agents were torturing prisoners sometimes until death.

Comparing this to WW2 just doesn't work. Both Germany and the allied forces were following the Geneva convention. This is especially ironic given that at the same time Nazi Germany felt no qualm killing millions of its own citizens and civilians in occupied territories.

No German prisoners of war in US or British captivity were tortured. German PoW captured by the Soviets were less fortunate - many were worked or starved to death.

My grandfather was a Lieutenant in the German Luftwaffe. As a research engineer he never had to leave the country but he was unlucky in getting arrested in the Soviet occupied part of Germany. He managed to escape and make it from Dresden to the British occupied sector where he surrendered to British forces. He always spoke with very high regard of the British soldiers for they followed the rules and treated their prisoner professionally and almost courteously.

My father was a little boy at the end of the war living in an undeveloped agricultural part of Germany. PoWs were used for farm work in his community (as permitted by the Geneva convention). As the war went worse and worse he saw people treating the prisoners (they were french) with more contempt. With the exception of one very special prisoner. The french catholic chaplain of the regiment. Since the town was short of a pastor he was asked to perform the Sunday services. My father told me that as a little boy he could just not wrap his head around this. He was baffled by the inconsistency that this prisoner was held in such high regard and the others in such contempt.