Obama Chooses Biden

This doesn't really come as a surprise to anyone, I think:

Senator Barack Obama has chosen Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware to be his running-mate, turning to a leading authority on foreign policy and a longtime Washington hand to fill out the Democratic ticket, people told of the decision said.

I'm not sure if it is a good pick or a bad one, or just kind of neutral. What do you think?

Sean Paul Kelley August 23, 2008 - 12:48am

Sean Paul Kelley's diary | printer friendly version |

( categories: Analysis | USA: Campaign 2008 )

It surprised the fuck out me of me, actually...

I wasn't exactly rooting for a white insider guy for Veep. I mean, I'm still voting for anyone running against McCain, but my interest and commitment to the Dem ticket just took yet another hit.

I feel more and more in agreement with some of the thoughtful commentary I've read here - that our next president will be a one-termer who gets blown away trying to plunge the enormous turd left by George W. Bush in the world's punchbowl. If Obama wins the White House - which I think is less than a fifty-fifty proposition given that he's black, has an odd name, is smarter than most of the populace and has Karl Rove working against him - I think I'll be looking for someone to run against him in the 2012 Democratic primary. If McCain wins 2008, I expect Hillary Clinton to move decisively to become Inevitable for the 2012 nomination. Either way, we're going to see a one-term president unless McCain wins, promptly dies, and his successor gets named as Emergency Dictator.

if this were totally snark, I'd insert an /snark tag here.

_{"One of the things that, duh, uh..."}

Rick August 23, 2008 - 2:24am

"If McCain wins 2008, I expect..."

"If McCain wins 2008, I expect Hillary Clinton to move decisively to become Inevitable for the 2012 nomination."

Really? I think that dog has had its last hunt. Hillary will be lucky to hold on to her Sen seat if things in the economy go as badly as they might.

I don't understand the comments in this thread. Who in the world could Obama have chosen as a better VP for helping his ticket? Richardson maybe, but RIchardson is a slightly darker-skinned Biden IMHO. Just thank your lucky stars he didn't nab Lieberman, Clinton, or some "moderate" Republiscam.

We have to remember politics is the art of the possible, not fantasy football.

zot23 August 23, 2008 - 10:36am

Rick- who'd you think would get it?

(only if you want to say). Note I'm not asking who'd you want to get it:-)

_{"The mythical John McCain is an affable, straight-talking, moderately conservative war hero who is an expert on foreign policy" - Bob Herbert}

nymole August 23, 2008 - 9:32pm

Actually ... I had no thoughts on the matter at all.

The announcement of Biden took me aback, because I truly never considered him a candidate. In the forty-some hours since that flash and my initial expression of dismay, I've come to accept it as a pragmatic choice to add some beef to the ticket and to reassure white folks that if Obama is scary, well, Uncle Joe is there for you.

Not as ballsy a move as the O-campaign could have made, but as Tom Robinson and others have said here, Biden brings a lot of Good Stuff to a potential Obama administration and no significant negatives.

In my humble opinion, McCain needs to counter with a governor, some one who is a proven administrator. And if Obama wins the White House, his most important pick to me will be his Chief of Staff. Having two former Senators trying to herd the cats in Executive is a recipe for trouble :)

_{"One of the things that, duh, uh, has happened here is, uh..."}

Rick August 24, 2008 - 6:11pm

Obama could have done worse.....

Biden's not the best choice, IMO, but certainly not the worst.

Biden's mouth can be his worst enemy....lessee how he works out as running mate, compared to whoever is stupid enough to accept McCain's offer.

-5.75,-4.05
"God gives men a brain and a penis, and only enough blood to run one at a time." -- Robin Williams

justadood August 23, 2008 - 2:53am

"Biden got Obama call during root canal"

But there's a wag to shut him up :-)...

true story from AP

_{"The mythical John McCain is an affable, straight-talking, moderately conservative war hero who is an expert on foreign policy" - Bob Herbert}

nymole August 23, 2008 - 9:21pm

after all the skewering

and crap Obama threw at Clinton for voting for the war in 2002 he picks Biden who did the same? I'm sure the excuses and backpedaling will be amusing.

MYDD has some of Biden's greatest hits ;)

Tina August 23, 2008 - 3:12am

pajamas media bio

They seem to relish the idea

Tina August 23, 2008 - 3:20am

wtf

Wtf is going on at agonist lately? Are you really linking to pajamasmedia.com? Why oh why oh why...

Seriously, can we get more Sean-Paul and less pajamasmedia.com as well as less Ian Welsh.

This site seems to have become the home of people who absolutely KNOW EXACTLY HOW THINGS SHOULD BE AND WHAT WE SHOULD DO, and if the whole world doesn't listen to said person and follow instructions exactly then we're all doomed/retarded.

It's pretty infuriating reading some of the posts and comments on this site, which used to be so much more.

xorfl August 23, 2008 - 10:51pm

Wtf3

Anyone who believes Ian Welsh isn't the next best thing to SPK is, imho, extremely retarded. Now bugger off.

_{"While not a Playboy reader, she invites a male acquaintance in for a quiet discussion of Chagall, Nietzsche, jazz, sex." - not a Hugh Hefner quote}

adrena August 23, 2008 - 11:53pm

Actually, that's the 2nd best comment...

...I've seen here in a number of months.

The first best was Escher's which showed that Obama does nuance. The replies tended to be "you want nuance? suck on this".

The "Thoughtful" appears to have fled the coop. There's some "Global" left, but not much, especially in the comments. And if a blog can't do "Timely", it ain't a blog.

There's still some good economic and global stuff on the front page. But the commentariat here is completely predictable - 99% of it is cynical, and the arguments are what to be cynical about.

Well, if that's what you like.

Gordon August 24, 2008 - 4:58pm

"Cynical...Global...Timely"

It does have a certain ring to it.

_{"One of the things that, duh, uh, has happened here is, uh..."}

Rick August 24, 2008 - 6:27pm

As I've quoted before,

"cynic" is a word coined by optimists to denote realists.

"The best-informed man is not necessarily the wisest. Indeed there is a danger that precisely in the multiplicity of his knowledge he will lose sight of what is essential."

- Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Escher Sketch August 24, 2008 - 6:40pm

Or does "thoughtless, provincial, out of date" sound right?

That describes google on a weekend as well, you know...

_{"The mythical John McCain is an affable, straight-talking, moderately conservative war hero who is an expert on foreign policy" - Bob Herbert}

nymole August 24, 2008 - 8:58pm

Can't recall the thread,

or getting flamed for it. Maybe that's a good thing.

For those that would like to discuss meta-issues about the Agonist in a more appropriate location than in a front-page post about Joe Biden being chosen as Veep, here are three more appropriate sections -

Site Issues
Feedback
Everything Else

"The best-informed man is not necessarily the wisest. Indeed there is a danger that precisely in the multiplicity of his knowledge he will lose sight of what is essential."

- Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Escher Sketch August 24, 2008 - 6:39pm

hmmm

Tina August 24, 2008 - 8:47pm

mmph ... LOL! eom

...

ww August 25, 2008 - 4:30pm

Biden's mouth...

could end up being the best Democratic weapon of this election if he assumes the attack role Edwards refused in '04.

GOPers suffer from CHIDS (Chronic Humor and Irony Deficit Syndrome), prounced 'kids' with that parental sigh

stumpy August 23, 2008 - 6:05am

The interesting question

.. for me is, why did Obama pick Biden? Foreign policy? Others have that too.

Biden is an old Senate warhorse with failed Presidential aspirations of his own. It's a hunch, but my guess is that America will be underwhelmed by the choice.

ww August 23, 2008 - 6:12am

Just one more Obama

Just one more Obama accomodation with the failed policies of the past.

I think I am going to "conveniently" forget that it is election day.

hvd August 23, 2008 - 6:15am

Gaffe machine

I'm sure Obama's people will try to stop him, but Joe Biden is a major verbal gaffe on two legs. It usually happens in a hallway between stops. Jovial Joe will be jiving with the press, and he'll come out with some goofball line that insults Italians, immigrants, etc. He just loves to run his mouth.

Then there's the fact that Biden supported about half the crap Obama opposed during the Bush 8-year mega-scam.

Then there's the fact that Biden is another senator. If they win, that's 2 Democratic senators that need to be replaced.

On the positive side, um............he's white, he's old (but not as ancient as McCain), he's actually quite knowledgeable on lots of governmental subjects, Republicans get along with him, he's not Hillary, and he gives a passable stump speech.

Their best bet is to embrace his gaffes (not as numerous as McCain's) as humorous relics of a bygone era, then compare his 65 years to McCain's 72. Which one has a better record in the Senate?

Sadly, Joe Biden is probably the least bad of many flawed Democratic candidates for VP. Doesn't say much for the rest of them, does it?
.
Good times for Smiley! :-D

Jimbo92107 August 23, 2008 - 8:35am

Biden's Son

My guess is that part of the reason for picking Biden is because his son Beau is a captain in the Nation Guard and is scheduled to be sent to Iraq in October. I think when Obama sent Biden to Georgia he had already admitted he needed a strong foreign policy surrogate; not that others don't have foreign policy experience but I can't name one with a son or daughter in Iraq.

"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
The only proof he needed for the existence of God was music."
-Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without A Country

jumpinin August 23, 2008 - 8:52am

I remember some interviews Biden gave

years ago, when he was talking about his son in Iraq, and how hard it was to see things such as insufficient body protection being used by the soldiers... Wasn't he already in Iraq???

creativelcro August 23, 2008 - 6:44pm

Webb ..

Webb's son was in Iraq .. but back now .. I believe .. McCain has a son that was supposed to be shipped over .. but never heard what happened to him .. I think there was one other Rep. who had a son over there .. and that was it

Calvin Jones an... August 23, 2008 - 9:28pm

Better than Kaine and Bayh

Not as good as Gore or Richardson.

I think it plays well for the middle where elections are won and lost.

I did inhale.

Don August 23, 2008 - 9:53am

Yup

I was hoping for Richardson too. Oh well, at least Biden has a pulse and seems relatively smart.

Truth does not do as much good in the world as the semblance of truth does evil.

Aaron Dellutri August 23, 2008 - 10:15pm

Joe Biden is an okay choice

I think the choice of Joe Biden is a compelling one. He is an intelligent well known voice on foreign policy with a *lot* of depth across a range of topics. He is also *not* afraid of a good fight and will have Obama's back during the campaign.

He's also an attractive figure to "Bush Democrats" -- who may feel more compelled to vote Obama with Biden on the ticket. Given that it was not Clinton (my personal choice) -- Biden is a good alternative.

All of that having been said, when I wear my true progressive colors -- the whole ticket stinks, but nonetheless, I will work my butt off to see these two in office.

bluespeak August 23, 2008 - 9:54am

Polimerick

Obama's VP is revealed;

His lips no longer are sealed.

The name that was hidden,

We now know it's Biden.

Let's hope we get New-Dealed.

Ken Roberts August 24, 2008 - 8:15am

And so it begins...

http://exurbanleague.com/2008/08/22/heres-yer-ticket.aspx"

psst don't read the comments

Tina August 23, 2008 - 10:00am

McCain's "why not Clinton?" ad begins as well

It's all because "Clinton criticized Obama."....

Republican ad questions why Clinton is not Obama's running mate

It's strange- I thought they just ran an ad with Biden's 200x critical remarks on Obama:-)

Somewhere, Maureen Dowd is laughing.....

_{"The mythical John McCain is an affable, straight-talking, moderately conservative war hero who is an expert on foreign policy" - Bob Herbert}

nymole August 24, 2008 - 12:51pm

don't you

mean cackling?

Tina August 24, 2008 - 8:36pm

absolutely right, if anyone can cackle in a sultry way:-)

eom

_{"The mythical John McCain is an affable, straight-talking, moderately conservative war hero who is an expert on foreign policy" - Bob Herbert}

nymole August 24, 2008 - 8:50pm

BIden: the choice the banking sector can live with

Biden lost me when he flogged the new bankruptcy bill.

And his comments about the Dem base in NH are pretty offputting. Via Jeralyn at TalkLeft:
http://blogs.unionleader.com/andrew-cline/?p=986

He said Democrats would do better if they stopped dividing the electorate by playing to their base and instead brought people together. He criticized the left wing of his party for demonizing the rich and Republicans.

“Rich folks are as patriotic as poor folks, but we don’t talk that way,” he said.

And there's lots more.

“I don’t want to be President if that’s the way I have to win [focussing on blue states-my note], because I can’t govern that way,” he said. He said that as President he would hope to have enough red state support to get his legislation through Congress.

If he gets the nomination, he would run on a 15 red-state strategy. He thinks he can win 15 red states — such as Virginia, West Virginia, Kentucky and Missouri — which would give him enough of a base of support in Congress to govern effectively.

To pass Red state legislation means far less than really progressive/liberal legislation, of course. Is this why Obama chose him?

On the bright side, WORM (What Obama Really Meant) might be overshadowed by the Biden gaffe gold rush.

Does not increase my enthusiasm--actually dampens it somewhat. We have two guys saying they want to work with Repubs to get legislation passed: What does that mean for universl healthcare?? My guess is we're not going to get it from this crew, given Biden's statements and Obama's UofChicago advisers and their love of the magic of the market. And Rahm has stated there's no money for universal healthcare. Time to just get the Soylent Green plan going, OK?

More and Better Dems! Or, just some real Dems, please!

Heard Podesta yesterday talking about his new book, and he called everyone from TR to FDR and Truman "progressives" (can't recall if he put Kennedy and Johnson under that label), not "liberals." Described himself as a progressive; said liberal was OK, but he just doesn't use it.

Thank goodness for JFK's statement about liberalism.

The MCM* and Repubs have trained our Dem leaders well: To Dems, beat up your own base, and ignore your party's principles as much as possible. Oh, my.

*Mainstream Corporate Media

jawbone2 August 23, 2008 - 11:42am

Actually, the market can do magic...

The problem is that what we have today is NOT FREE MARKET! It's a corrupt market, where real competition is not allowed to challenge the big players. Thins would not be this bad if actual free market had been running for the last few decades.

creativelcro August 23, 2008 - 6:52pm

Delaware ..

while you can rightly get on Biden for the Bankruptcy Bill .. also realize .. that a Senator from Delaware won't last long .. unless he does the CC companies bidding .. just like certain other states have certain pet projects(or companies)

Calvin Jones an... August 23, 2008 - 9:31pm

Biden always reminds me of Chrostopher Lambert

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2318178304/nm0000483

creativelcro August 23, 2008 - 6:49pm

It's what you make of it

I thought that both Obama and Biden were beyond inspiring in their speeches this afternoon. We can debate good or bad until we go blind, but the reality is what it is. There were several deserving candidates; now it comes down to taking advantages of Biden's strengths and telling his story. If the Obama campaign can do that successfully, Election Day could be a walkover. If not, we might yet find ourselves stuck with a third Bush term.

_{Last in line for a Nobel Prize, but first in line for pie}

Jack Cluth August 23, 2008 - 6:58pm

It still comes down to Obama's gettting Obama right

that is, trustworthy, a leader, and still "one of us" .

Many people in NYC I've talked to were getting crazed about Obama's reactive mode on McCain's attacks, and the Obama campaign's issuing position papers rather than Obama himself putting his ideas out there for people to to react to.

Biden can help, but Obama still needs to convince a whole lot of people on "commander in chief", whatever that means.

Otherwise "younger/older" makes people remember Bush/Cheney, "who's on first"..

_{"The mythical John McCain is an affable, straight-talking, moderately conservative war hero who is an expert on foreign policy" - Bob Herbert}

nymole August 23, 2008 - 10:03pm

here goes

I'm a conservative who despises Bush and the neo-cons
I swore in the last election that I would not and could not vore for Bush for all the reasons you would agree with. But I did because I had to.
I wanted Ron Paul to get a fair shot this time
I could not and will not under any circumstances vote for McCain

Biden gives cover for people like me who would have had a hard time voting for Obama with a non-traditional Veep. It says he wants to be elected more than he wants to be extreme.

Its a perfect choice because it will allow a lot of Bush/MacCain hating republicans and independents to say, "OK, I'm not liberal but I have give an old pro like Biden his due, that is to say, he won't do something stupid and he'll keep Obama from doing something stupid.

If Obama had picked a foreign policy neophyte I could not have voted for him. This gives me cover and I probably will vote Democratic for the first time since Jimmie.

Takachi99 August 23, 2008 - 9:25pm

"extreme"

your code for "too black" i take it. and you think biden is an "old pro." pro at what? fucking over the little people in favor of MBNA? i guess you're glad he voted in favor of banks' rights over yours?

today's "conservatives" are so fucking stupid it's pathetic. thanks for informing us all of your pathetic logic. it reminds me of why this country is doomed. but don't worry: obama isn't going to fuck your sister.

chicago dyke August 24, 2008 - 11:10am

Too harsh

Dyke, wouldn't be better engaging him/her in a not so rude way? I think s/he was sincere and let's admit it, s/he showed courage expanding the debate in that direction. I also believe there are many people like him/her, so this was a good chance to hear from one of them first hand about why they think that way but after this reaction I guess the opportunity is lost.

pembeci August 24, 2008 - 8:01pm

Thanks pembici

I agree.

Tina August 26, 2008 - 5:44am

Let me try anyway

cause I'm really curious and want to learn.

I swore in the last election that I would not and could not vore for Bush for all the reasons you would agree with. But I did because I had to.

Why did you have to?

Secondly, why do you think Obama is extreme while many on the left find him too centrist?

pembeci August 24, 2008 - 8:04pm

Assumptions

We're all assuming that Biden isn't going to say something stupid and shoot himself in the foot.

Stay tuned for a Joe "Earl Butz" Biden moment...

Biden was known as the Obama Veep choice on Friday.

And, we're assuming that Obama will win the nomination. I would not be at all surprised if he didn't.

Petronius August 23, 2008 - 10:13pm

Wtf 2

You wouldn't be surprised if he didn't win the nomination? Are you serious? Really? You think Hillary has a chance at getting it? I truly wish I had something more to say, but I am completely dumbfounded by that remark. Combined with some of the other comments I've seen in this post (and others in recent weeks/months), I think this has been a turning point for me as far as my readership of Agonist goes.

What has happened to Sean-Paul's site. Who are you people?

xorfl August 23, 2008 - 11:02pm

Take it easy...

I'm no Hillary lover, but the Clintonians have a very well-organized machine. It would be like them to rig an upset at the DNC. Remember Dukakis?

Personally, I'm a Humphrey-Muskie guy.

Petronius August 23, 2008 - 11:35pm

LOL wtf4

Who are you? This site is not an echo chamber, never has been, try dkos and TPM ;)

Tina August 24, 2008 - 1:18am

This is a contributor-based site,

and you're a contributor, yet you seem to have posted precisely - um, let me count - [tallies on fingers... hmm... carry the one] - oh, yes, that's right, precisely zero articles since your first post four years ago.

So by all means, feel free to criticize people who do contribute. Be as judgmental as you like. After all, you're perfectly safe, having yourself contributed nothing to the community worth criticizing - not one single newswire link, let alone a diary entry - in all those four years.

"The best-informed man is not necessarily the wisest. Indeed there is a danger that precisely in the multiplicity of his knowledge he will lose sight of what is essential."

- Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Escher Sketch August 24, 2008 - 11:35am

ah, maybe this particular contributor

just liked to read stuff, and finally this issue brought out the inner poster.

It does happen sometimes.

_{"The mythical John McCain is an affable, straight-talking, moderately conservative war hero who is an expert on foreign policy" - Bob Herbert}

nymole August 24, 2008 - 12:56pm

LOL re "inner poster"

Absolutely love the concept. Perhaps "xorfl" might be a bit more accommodating/understanding if he were to apply some helpful"inner child" coping techniques.

For instance: (with huge apologies to the writer for substituting the word poster for child sometimes.)

Your Inner Poster is:

#Free spirit, pixie, and elf you have tamed and controlled, yet who resides within you.

#Emotional and sensitive you whom you have channeled, controlled, and silenced and who is still living within you.

#Creative, imaginative, and artistic you who has been molded, structured, and organized; who still resides in you and is needing to be set free.

#Hurt, pained, neglected, frustrated, abused, and ignored you whom you have masked, hidden from view, and denied the existence of. This poster is always just below the surface, causing you to be anxious, worried, and fearful of mistreatment.

#Fun loving, happy, frivolous, joyful, humorous you when you were young and unsophisticated; that person you have replaced with a sophisticated, mature, serious, task oriented demeanor.

#Person who knows how to have fun and play for play's sake; who can help you prevent burnout and manage the stress in your life.

#Person you could be if you lightened up, let go of your seriousness, overcame your fears, and accepted flexibility and change in your life.

I'm sure that mastering some of the recommended techniques will be both healthy and helpful and I greatly look forward to the next post four years from now, to see how things have progressed.

Sigh. Sadly I've just discovered that my own inner poster is actually uncharacteristically unkind. I'll work on it.

Chickadee August 24, 2008 - 3:25pm

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Obama Chooses Biden

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