What Part of "Nyet" Did You People Not Understand?


Have the leaders of the West lost their collective minds? Seriously, after reading this I am beginning to think so:

German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Sunday assured Georgia would join NATO as she strongly backed the ex-Soviet republic's President Mikheil Saakashvili in his conflict with Russia.

"Georgia will become a member of NATO if it wants to -- and it does want to," she told reporters before talks with Saakashvili in Tbilisi.

And this:

Moscow is furious at Georgia's attempt to join NATO. The Western military alliance is divided over how fast to accept Georgia, but has indicated that membership is a matter of when, not if.

When, not if? Fine, then leaders of the Western Alliance ask yourselves the following questions: how hard will Russia fight if it appears Georgia will be accepted? (I happen to think that by invading Georgia recently, they've answered that question already. But will do so again, if the need arises.)

And, then, if and when Russia does invade the country will NATO really fight? Or will it blow the alliance apart? (I happen to think NATO doesn't function as a military alliance any longer, more like a Concert of Europe, but hey, what do I know?) And lastly, does Germany really have the stomach to fight against Russia again?

Is this really the path we want to go down? Have we become so ignorant of other nation's vital interests and concerns that we will blindly rush into something this insane?

Am I missing something?


Sean Paul Kelley August 18, 2008 - 10:58pm

The only explanation I have is that it helps her internally to sharpen her profile in comparison to the secretary of state Steinmeyer who she will probably face as SPD chancellor candidate in the next election.

Merkel is from East Germany and although she speaks Russians her biography makes her much more in tune with other former Eastern block heads of state than Western Europeans.

My hope rest on Steinmeyer this might just be the issue the embattled SPD needs to find some footing in the polls.

Although Steinmeyer's position is by far not as pro-Russian as the stance of former chancellor Schroeder who called Saakashvili a lose canon in a recent Spiegel interview.

quax August 18, 2008 - 11:39pm

Merkel must have amnesia or maybe she's bitter at having had to grow up in East Germany. I feel somewhat vindicated having been challenged on another forum for suggesting that she wasn't much better than our very own neoconservatives. She isn't. Hopefully, the German people will chose high culture and raves over this poor leader's ignorance and retire her promptly.

I'd seen Russia's response as a convenient means of nixing NATO membership for Georgia. Why would NATO take them if they were so unruly that they might provoke a conflict with Russia? Well, maybe the answer to that question is simply that NATO seeks such a conflict. It makes no sense but who knows, Merkel might want to give her economy a shot in the arm with a resurgent arms industry.

Ultimately, this is one more aggravation of the "scarcity" fiction. We'll only have oil in the future. Nothing else will work. There is no alternative. The turkey is too small to carve into sustaining portions. I guess they missed this

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2008/oxygen-0731.html

But if the leaders in the West actually worked collaboratively on oil distribution and focused on new energy sources (or simply took a trip to Brazil), they would have few if any excuses to lead. The right wing is bankrupt without someone or some nation to demonize and hate.

Michael Collins August 19, 2008 - 1:28am

"Why would NATO take them if they were so unruly that they might provoke a conflict with Russia? Well, maybe the answer to that question is simply that NATO seeks such a conflict."

Of course NATO seeks conflict, any conflict. Remember, it just the marketing arm of the arms industry.

Beto August 19, 2008 - 8:47am

I believe that the West, and America in particular, does not want a direct conflict with Russia.

What they want is to be able to raise the specter of the threat of conflict with Russia.

That perceived threat sustained the Cold War for 50 years, and the Arms industry (Iron Triangle) is very interested in reviving Cold War mentality, as they directly profit from it financially.

They make money off waging proxy wars and winning contracts for a never-ending arms race. These are things sustained by floating the image of some bogeyman (Communism, Terrorism) in front of America, then pushing through huge military infrastructure contracts.

Clearly, they are missing the Cold War. They have just about run out of the mileage they can get from the images of Bin Laden. They are looking for a stimulus, and the revival of the stimulus that worked so well for so long is very tempting for them.

They are probably wishing we hadn't won the Ciold War. So what they can do is prop up the old enemy again to use as a poster-board for advertising their agenda.

yogi-one August 19, 2008 - 11:11am

That's a very good point. I was disturbed by the "exercises" they held so near this conflict. Those displays remind me of anthropology films showing tribes conducting war through symbolic war dances rather than actual fighting. Maybe that's giving the 'leaders' and military planers too much credit, but it seems to fit.

I was pleased (and not surprised) that the "We are all Georgians" theme went nowhere. My reaction was, if that means defending the Varsity and Cheetah III, then I'm all for it but otherwise, forget about it. The cold war was a profitable idea but it's over. They need something new. We play checkers, the Russians play chess, and the games are meaningless in the larger picture. That will change hopefully.

Michael Collins August 19, 2008 - 4:50pm

Sunday, August 17, 2008
Russia, Georgia, & Disinformation
IMINT & Analyis

snip

RUSSIAN "PREPARATION"

One of the most propagated theories behind the Georgian conflict is that it was preplanned and prepared for in advance by the Russian military. Logically, this should of course be partly true. Any military worth its salt will always be preparing for likely future conflicts. Two American examples of warplanning are OPLAN 5027, outlining plans for a conflict on the Korean peninsula, and OPLAN 8044, dealing with nuclear warfighting. Given the recent history of the Georgian situation, it would be illogical to assume that Russia had not at least outlined plans for a military action against Georgia. Russian troops based in Georgia pre-conflict were described as peacekeepers; peacekeepers would not be necessary were it not for the potential for open conflict, and where there is potential there will most assuredly be a contingency plan. But does this mean that Russia purposely created an environment where such a contingency plan would be called into action?

The interesting aspect to this theory is that it can only survive in blind ignorance of the events leading up to the conflict. Prior to the outbreak of serious hostilities, South Ossetian separatists and Georgian military forces had begun trading fire as early as 1 August in response to separatist shelling of Georgian villages in South Ossetia. By 3 August Russia was warning Georgia that the conflict would escalate if it continued further. After declaring a cease-fire on August 7, Georgian forces began to assault South Ossetia during the early hours on August 8 in response to further shelling by separatist forces. By August 11, Russian forces were entering Georgia, seemingly to end the conflict on their own terms. The idea that Russia preplanned and provoked the entire operation is clearly absurd. There were multiple meetings within the framework of the UN and multiple talks regarding a ceasefire well before August 11, and in some cases even before August 8. The South Ossetian separatists do appear to have been the primary instigators of the conflict, but this was a full 10 days before any major Russian military involvement in the area.

The main evidence used to support the idea that Russia was behind the conflict as a means of invading Georgia was that the 58th Army or some other force was prepositioned near the Roki tunnel to allow them to advance into Georgia. A US defense official was quoted by AFP on 12 August as stating that there was no evidence to support a buildup of Russian forces prior to the invasion. Rather, American military officials were suprised with the rapidity with which Russian forces mobilized and deployed into the conflict zone. This should not necessarily have been much of a shock, as there were Russian troops in the area prepared to enter South Ossetia. These troops were taking part in the Kavkaz-2008 exercise in the region, and Russian Army spokesperson Igor Konashenkov claimed that they would in fact be reporting to South Ossetia in the near future as replacements for the current peacekeeping force stationed there. As a result, according to Konashenkov, part of the Kavkaz-2008 exercise would focus on that peacekeeping mission.

Kavkaz-2008 ran through the end of July and it is possible that the troops had not left for their garrisons when initial signs of conflict appeared on 1 August. Russia's warning of expanded conflict on August 3 may have led to many of the troops involved with Kavkaz-2008 remaining in the area. Of course, moving troops rapidly and with little warning has been a hallmark of former Soviet doctrine for a European war. Given Russia's knowledge and infrastructure, it is also just as likely that troops were mobilized on 3 August and moved towards the battlefield with lightning speed once Moscow decided to become seriously involved. The Russian 58th Army, for example, has been cited as being involved in the conflict. The 58th Army is based at Vladikavkaz in the North Caucasus Military District, less than 50 kilometers from the Georgian border. If mobilized on or about 3 August, moving elements of the 58th Army into South Ossetia by 11 August would not be a difficult task, particularly if they had been involved with Kavkaz-2008 and were therefore already at an increased state of readiness.

Returning to Ralph Peters' journalistic slaughtering of the facts surrounding the conflict, Peters claims that airstrikes were launched against pre-planned targets, citing this as an example of how Russia had clearly been planning for the conflict. This is both accurate, and absurd. Anyone remotely familiar with the concept of ISR will state that any area of potential conflict is monitored for enemy forces and scanned for potential targets. This is all part of the contingency planning process described earlier. Russia has likely searched the United States to derive aimpoints for its ballistic missile force, does this mean that Russia is also looking for an excuse to engage in a nuclear exchange with the United States? It is absurdity such as this that only serves to propagate the appearance of a decidedly anti-Russian bias throughout the West, a bias that will ultimately hinder continued relations between the US and Russia as it begins to affect the populations of both nations. Further demonstration of Peters' decidedly anti-Russian bias can be found in another New York Post column from 9 August. In this diatribe, Peters claims that the Russian 58th Army was incapable of short-notice combat operations due to readiness issues. Apparently he failed to make a journalistic inquiry to the US defense community, as they have a decidedly different opinion, and decidedly better sources.

Tina August 19, 2008 - 5:14pm

Interesting article, but I think some of the information is well disinformation . . .

"A US defense official was quoted by AFP on 12 August as stating that there was no evidence to support a buildup of Russian forces prior to the invasion. Rather, American military officials were suprised [sic] with the rapidity with which Russian forces mobilized and deployed into the conflict zone."

Open sources indicate that there was a buildup before the conflict, and US satellites should have caught this beforehand (on both sides). Did the US, Israel and NATO leave Sackawilly (yea I know . . . Saakashvili) hanging out to dry for their own agenda. Oooohhhh . . . conspiracy . . . I do not subscribe to such things. But, I think, in time,the facts hopefully will reveal themselves from the sources we all have available.

A satellite photo, dated 11.11.2006, in the article does not convince me of whether or not Ukraine supplied Georgia with S-200 systems. That is out of date of intel.

Nice find Tina.

liquid August 19, 2008 - 8:02pm

I went to the user's blog and found it fascinating. I guess "GoogleEarth" spawned a whole crew of citizen defense analysts. The interaction at the main site was interesting. The poster was open to changes, corrections. But he's the first person I've seen to do an in depth analysis. He doesn't seem to have an ax to grind. Thanks for sharing that.

Michael Collins August 20, 2008 - 2:33am

thought too. Although like liquid mentions there is questionable spots in the essay I was impressed not to see the blatant revisionalism of the MSM and outright lies by ignorant bloggers. :) I'm trying to remember where I found the link, my guess it was from comments at Registan or Arms Control Wonk.

Tina August 20, 2008 - 7:43am

South Ossetian separatists and Georgian military forces had begun trading fire as early as 1 August in response to separatist shelling of Georgian villages in South Ossetia By 3 August Russia was warning Georgia that the conflict would escalate if it continued further. After declaring a cease-fire on August 7, Georgian forces began to assault South Ossetia during the early hours on August 8 in response to further shelling by separatist forces.

It appears the Ossetians were extremely confident that eventually the Russians would come to their aid.


"While not a Playboy reader, she invites a male acquaintance in for a quiet discussion of Chagall, Nietzsche, jazz, sex." - not a Hugh Hefner quote

adrena August 20, 2008 - 9:53pm

Russia's got the geographic advantage should a NATO donnybrook break out over Georgia. If they mobilize their reserves, they've got about a million soldiers and plenty of hardware.

History has shown us that Russia wouldn't blink at losing most of them if push came to shove. Of course, if that came about, they also have plenty of nukes.

What's up with Merkel? She sounds about as addled as Saakashvili...

Petronius August 19, 2008 - 2:39am

the olympics are happening. Musharaff has resigned
prayer time

/run

graham August 19, 2008 - 5:21am

:) the smiley master!

creativelcro August 19, 2008 - 8:24am

tis true I have put this smiley in a very safe place. It would have been great to use during the primary LOL Surely it is time to unite to save the party...

Tina August 19, 2008 - 8:48am

Rice warns Moscow about its bomber runs off Alaska
By Jonathan S. Landay | McClatchy Newspapers

Since Russian planes resumed patrols off Alaska in August 2007, U.S. officials have attached little significance to the flights, which U.S. and Canadian fighters have intercepted and escorted away from the U.S. coast. But Rice said Monday the invasion of Georgia puts the flights in a new context.

Posted on Tue, Aug. 19, 2008

BRUSSELS, Belgium — Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice Monday ruled out accelerating Georgia's admission to NATO in response to the Russian invasion. But she warned Moscow that it is playing "a very dangerous game" by resuming Cold War-era strategic bomber patrols close to the Alaskan coast.

"Russia is a state that is unfortunately using the one tool that it has always used whenever it wishes to deliver a message and that's its military power," Rice told reporters en route to an emergency meeting of NATO foreign ministers set for Tuesday. "That's not the way to deal in the 21st century."

With Europe divided between former Soviet bloc nations, which seek tough measures, and major powers such as Germany, which is hesitant to jeopardize significant business and energy ties with Russia, it was unclear whether NATO would produce a robust response to Russia's invasion of Georgia.

Russian forces Monday continued to move around Georgia with impunity, and senior U.S. defense officials said they were troubled by intelligence showing the Russians had deployed SS-21 ballistic missiles into South Ossetia with a range to strike Tbilisi, the Georgian capital.

Rice said Russia has raised questions about its place in the international community through the invasion and other actions, including the resumption last year for the first time since the 1991 collapse of the former Soviet Union of air patrols near the Alaskan coast by Tu-95 strategic bombers, code-named Bears by NATO.

"We've had Russian strategic aviation challenging in ways they haven't, even along our borders with the United States, which I might note is a very dangerous game and perhaps one that I suggest the Russians want to reconsider. This is not one that is cost-free," Rice said.

She did not elaborate on a U.S. reaction to the flights, which have been widely seen as an attempt by Russia, flush with windfall oil profits, to reassert itself as a global power despite serious problems with its military.

Since the flights resumed in August 2007, U.S. and Canadian fighters have intercepted the Russian bombers and escorted them away from the U.S. coast.

U.S. officials have previously attached little real significance to the flights by the turboprop-powered Cold War relics, and defense officials said Monday recent flights did not provoke concerns within the Pentagon.

Russian bombers also have made forays into neutral airspace near Norway and over U.S. aircraft carriers in the Pacific.

Rice said, however, that the Alaska patrols and the invasion of Georgia contradicted Russia's stated desire for political and economic integration into the international community.

She charged that Russia's offensive deep into Georgia was aimed at "undermining" the pro-U.S. government of President Mikhail Saakashvili and crippling the impoverished nation by damaging and destroying vital economic infrastructure.

"That is an objective that will be denied because Georgian democracy stands and it will stand with the help of its allies around the world," Rice said. "Georgian infrastructure will be rebuilt. Georgia's economy will be reinforced."

Rice said that NATO foreign ministers would consider measures to reinforce U.S. and European support for Georgia's territorial integrity. For its part, the United States is also sending teams to assess the re-equipping of Georgia's U.S.-trained military, which was battered by superior Russian forces, and to evaluate reconstruction needs, she said.

But she said the United States would not push to accelerate approval by the 26 foreign ministers of plans for the admission to NATO of Georgia and the former Soviet republic of Ukraine.

more

Tina August 19, 2008 - 8:55am

"Russia is a state that is unfortunately using the one tool that it has always used whenever it wishes to deliver a message and that's its military power"


Coming from Rice this just makes me want to bang my head against a wall.

quax August 19, 2008 - 4:54pm

via CNN, August 15
In Washington, President Bush chided Russia on Friday for Cold War-style behavior, saying, "bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century."


"Frankly, we've lost a lot in recent years." - General Colin Powell

Raja August 19, 2008 - 9:33pm

he must have been changing planes:-)


"The mythical John McCain is an affable, straight-talking, moderately conservative war hero who is an expert on foreign policy" - Bob Herbert

nymole August 19, 2008 - 11:05pm

“Is not our first thought to go on the road? The road is our source, our vault of treasures, our wealth. Only on the road does the ‘traveller’ feel like himself, at home.”
Ryszard Kapuscinski

Sean Paul Kelley August 20, 2008 - 12:28am

MOSCOW, Aug 19 (Reuters) - Russia's navy said on Tuesday it had cancelled a September visit by a United States navy frigate to a port in Russia's Far Eastern region of Kamchatka.

"At the present time it is not considered possible to accept the guided missile frigate U.S.S. Ford on a business visit," Russia's navy said in a statement.

The navy said the visit had been planned for 5-9 September. The statement gave no further details about the reason for cancelling the visit and a Russian navy spokesman declined to comment further.

more

Tina August 19, 2008 - 9:44am

Angela Merkel must feel that Germany has built enough windmills and solar arrays to replace Russian fossil fuels, so she is safe in talking about Georgia joining NATO. Of course, it will only be the Georgian government in exile that joins NATO. Or she has lost her mind.
I think that Putin is following Bush policy, lie like a thief...sure, sure we'll sign the treaty and leave Georgia while the troops seem to be digging in for the long haul.
And there are probably a lot of Georgians who long for the stability and the good ole days of the USSR. Heck, that is what has brought Putin to power after Russia got looted by all the Free Marketeers in the '90's.
Our most effective counter move to Putin is a real national energy and transportation policy that doesn't squander fossil fuel...that would be playing chess.
I don't think we are smart enough any more.

JT August 19, 2008 - 10:04am

long for the days of their Russian overlords.

Sure, they are obsessed with Russia, but they don't and wouldn't want stability-Russian style--over their crazy, chaotic freedom. That much was made clear to me when I was in Georgia, and that comes from the old timers as well, not jsut the youngsters.

“Is not our first thought to go on the road? The road is our source, our vault of treasures, our wealth. Only on the road does the ‘traveller’ feel like himself, at home.”
Ryszard Kapuscinski

Sean Paul Kelley August 20, 2008 - 12:30am

AP - While Western officials are mulling how to punish Russia for invading neighboring Georgia, most Russians view Georgia as the aggressor — aided and abetted by a hostile West.
more at the link


"The mythical John McCain is an affable, straight-talking, moderately conservative war hero who is an expert on foreign policy" - Bob Herbert

nymole August 19, 2008 - 12:09pm

Radio Netherlands - 8/19

Miscalculation

The Russians have allowed the Georgian national security advisor Alexander Lomaia into the town. He is holding talks with Russian generals. He has also visited the local hospital, which has sent all the injured on to Tbilisi. He is gloomy.

"Yes, the Russians are still here. I don't know how much longer. They are totally exploiting the situation. They're making us negotiate for every square centimetre they've occupied. They're trying to destroy our military infrastructure and our economy."

Alexander Lomaia is Mikheil Saakashvili's right-hand man and was partly responsible for giving the go-ahead for the Georgian military action in South Ossetia. But the operation had a completely different outcome from what he was expecting.

"Our aim was to block the Roki Tunnel (between Russian and South Ossetia). For some time it had been the route of illegal support for the separatists. We thought that after we had done that we would be able to negotiate with the Russians."

What followed was a large-scale Russian assault. "It was an enormous surprise," he says. He was also surprised when the West gave Georgia only verbal support.

"I was hoping Russia would immediately be expelled from the G-8. That sanctions would be imposed. Visa restrictions. You name it."

Sovereign state
"Yes, of course I have regrets," admits the security advisor. Despite pressure from the United States and others not to respond to provocation, Lomaia continued on his path. "We wanted to act as a sovereign state, not as some Western bloc country."

(It's a translation , so caveat emptor)


"The mythical John McCain is an affable, straight-talking, moderately conservative war hero who is an expert on foreign policy" - Bob Herbert

nymole August 19, 2008 - 12:21pm

NATO foreign ministers are to discuss the military alliance's
Rio Novosti

In response to the recent conflict between Russia and Georgia at an emergency session in Brussels on Tuesday.

The meeting was called last week by Washington, which has accused Russia of a "disproportionate" response to Georgia's attack on breakaway South Ossetia on August 8.

During its subsequent counter operation to expel Georgian troops from the de facto independent republic and to reinforce Russian peacekeepers, Moscow sent some 10,000 troops and several hundred armored vehicles into the area.

Speaking on Monday, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said that "We have to deny Russian strategic objectives, which are clearly to undermine Georgia's democracy, to use its military capability to damage and in some cases destroy Georgian infrastructure and to try and weaken the Georgian state."

Russian troops are widely reported to remain in parts of Georgia, including the town of Gori, despite a pledge by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev that they would begin pulling out from the South Caucasus state on Monday.

"It didn't take that long for the Russian forces to get in and it really shouldn't take that long for them to get out," Rice said.

"We are not going to allow Russia to draw a new line at those states that are not yet integrated into the trans-Atlantic structures," Rice also said, referring to Georgia and Ukraine.

snip

NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer had also earlier described the Russian response to the attack on South Ossetia as "excessive."

Responding to the secretary general's criticism, Russian NATO envoy Dmitry Rogozin told the Russian government newspaper Rossiiskaya Gazeta that, "These are not credible allegations, especially coming from the head of an organization like NATO, which has itself used not just disproportionate force, but force against civilian targets and the civilian population, especially in its conflict with Yugoslavia in 1999."

Rogozin has also warned that cooperation between Russia and NATO will suffer if the organization fails to reach a "reasonable decision" at its meeting on Tuesday.

"We don't want to hear that Saakashvili is a saint," he warned

Tina August 19, 2008 - 12:30pm

is that Saakashvili declared a that a state of war exists with Russia, which takes the conflict into free-for-all territory. He's darned lucky that after he uttered those words that Russia didn't take him at face value and level Tblisi in response. Note that Russia did not declare war on Georgia in a tit-for-tat.

We have a cease-fire, but the state of war evidently remains.

Petronius August 19, 2008 - 1:09pm

a knowledgeable piece from last week which still applies

Michael Binyon | Aug 14

TimesOnline - The cartoon images have shown Russia as an angry bear, stretching out a claw to maul Georgia. Russia is certainly angry, and, like a beast provoked, has bared its teeth. But it is the wrong stereotype. What the world has seen last week is a brilliant and brutal display of Russia's national game, chess. And Moscow has just declared checkmate.

Chess is a slow game. One has to be ready to ignore provocations, lose a few pawns and turn the hubris of others into their own entrapment. For years there has been rising resentment within Russia. Some of this is inevitable: the loss of empire, a burning sense of grievance and the fear that in the 1990s, amid domestic chaos and economic collapse, Russia's views no longer mattered.

A generalised resentment, similar to the sour undercurrents of Weimar Germany, began to focus on specific issues: the nonchalance of the Clinton Administration about Russian sensitivities, especially over the Balkans and in opening Nato's door to former Warsaw Pact members; the neo-conservative agenda of the early Bush years that saw no role for Russia in its global agenda; and Washington's ingratitude after 9/11 for vital Kremlin support over terrorism, Afghanistan and intelligence on extremism.

More infuriating was Western encouragement of “freedom” in the former Soviet satellite states that gave carte blanche to forces long hostile to Russia. In the Baltic states, Soviet occupation could be portrayed as worse than the Nazis. EU commissioners from new member states could target Russian policies. Populists in Eastern Europe could ride to power on anti-Russian rhetoric emboldened by Western applause for their fluency in English.

Nowhere was such taunting more wounding than in Ukraine and Georgia, two countries long part of the Russian Empire, whose history, religion and culture were so intertwined with Russia's. Moscow tried, disastrously, to check Western, and particularly American, influence in Ukraine. The clumsy meddling led to the Orange Revolution.

Georgia was a different matter. Relations were always mercurial, but Eduard Shevardnadze, the wily former Soviet Foreign Minister, knew how to keep atavistic animosities in check. Not so his brash successor, Mikheil Saakashvili. From then on, hubris was Tbilisi's undoing.

It was not simply the dismissive rhetoric, the open door to US advisers or the economic illiteracy in forgetting dependence on Russian energy and remittance from across the border; it was the determined attempt to make Georgia a US regional ally and outpost of US influence.

more at the link


"The mythical John McCain is an affable, straight-talking, moderately conservative war hero who is an expert on foreign policy" - Bob Herbert

nymole August 19, 2008 - 2:39pm

by Hans Jaap Melissen*

16-08-2008

It looked like an act of desperation. Just hours before Condoleezza Rice landed in the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, a huge poster changed the name of the road next to the airport into George W Bush Street. It also showed a photo of the US president waving, but his hand could also be viewed as ordering someone or something to stop.

Bush Street - Georgia 2008And this illustrates Georgia's big problem: the Russians who have entered the country are deciding for themselves who can, or rather cannot tell them to stop. Just like when ‘Condi' was in Tbilisi, Russian forces remain just outside Gori now that she has left. What is more, the Georgian president signed a ceasefire agreement, under pressure from Ms Rice, despite a number of Russian tanks moving further towards Tbilisi itself.

more Radio Netherlands

Tina August 19, 2008 - 12:40pm

I am baffled by Merkel's stance. It makes no sense, if one were to think seriously of German national interests. Unless she had discussions with Sarkozy and signed some voodoo treaty for full-steam ahead nuclear power for Germany there is no way she can "fight" Russia without suffering the consequences. This, however, will not be easy to sell to the environmentally conscious Germans and do not forget she is the head of a coalition government. Would love to read more on all this.

dimik72 August 19, 2008 - 1:34pm

The admitedly Russo-phile Greek media reports that there is a major crisis in the ranks of the Ukrainian political establishment. Iulia Timoshenko the prime-minister did not sign (along with her minister of the interior) the presidential decree limiting the Russian fleet's access to the Black Sea ports of the country which was issued by Yushenko. Timoshenko is reputed to be seeking Russian approval for her presidential bid in 2009/10. Yushenko meanwhile is accusing her of treason. Meanwhile the Greeks report (and again I note the pro-Russia bias) interviews in Kiev streets expressing fear that immature actions of their president may lead to Russian intervention, while also registering pro-Russian feeling and statements about the two nations being tied in brotherhood.

As for the Russians, through Medvedev they openly stated that their fleet will go wherever it wants and seem to be rearming their Baltic fleet with nukes. Also to note some info on the dynamics of the latest NATO summit where traditional enemies Greece and Turkey found themselves outside the circle of enthusiastic US supporters. For our own reasons (fear of the Russian fleet in Turkey, Oil pipeline policy in Greece) Greeks and Turks seem to want to tread carefully vis-a-vis Russia and for once we agree on something (See a possible veto-block for Georgian accession in NATO???).

As for the Turkish press they seem to note with multiple articles that the treaty on the Straits does not allow the crossing of the high displacement hospital ships of the US into the Black Sea through the Dardaneles, creating potential problems for the US effort to send supplies to Georgia. Do note that Erdogan was in Moscow meeting with Putin and Medvedev just one day after the crisis in Osetia broke out.

dimik72 August 19, 2008 - 2:58pm

Please keep us posted.

Beto August 19, 2008 - 3:46pm

Susan Cornwell |Aug 19

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States warned Georgia against a fight with Russia, a senior U.S. diplomat said on Tuesday as Washington demanded Moscow withdraw its forces more quickly from the former Soviet republic.

"Our message was consistent to our Georgian colleagues ... 'Avoid a direct military confrontation with Russia at all costs. You cannot prevail. It simply is not possible,'" said Matt Bryza, the State Department diplomat who was sent to Georgia after the crisis erupted.

In some of the most explicit criticism from Washington of Georgia's actions, Bryza said the United States told Tbilisi that the Georgian military would be no match for Russia.

"Russia is 30 times as big as Georgia, its military is several times as large," he told reporters.

"It can almost instantaneously roll tanks in. And then even if you succeed miraculously in stopping the tanks, and the infantry, and the mechanized infantry, which move very quickly, it's the air power that's finally going to get you. And that is what happened."

Conflict between Georgia and Russia erupted when Georgia tried to reimpose control over the breakaway, pro-Russian South Ossetia region on Aug. 7-8. Russia responded with a massive counter-attack that overwhelmed Georgian forces.
more at the link


"The mythical John McCain is an affable, straight-talking, moderately conservative war hero who is an expert on foreign policy" - Bob Herbert

nymole August 19, 2008 - 7:15pm

I had posted before that there was nary a peep from Yulia Timoshenko about the Russo-South Ossetian-Georgian Conflict (War), but it seems things have changed in the Orange Coalition.

Sorry, no link . . . subscriber based

"Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko reportedly is pushing for an investigation of Prime Minister Yulia Timoshenko that could see treason charges against the latter. Far from mere political drama, the rumors reflect deeper concerns over the future of Ukraine’s allegiance."

"Rumors are flying in Kiev that Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko is pushing for an investigation of Prime Minister Yulia Timoshenko that could result in charges of state treason and political corruption. While at first glance this might look like the typical drama of Ukrainian politics — which typically leads to near-constant government turnover — things are far more serious this time, with concerns over the future of Ukraine’s allegiances at stake."

"Timoshenko is a political survivor . . . a deal was struck between the two, under which Moscow would politically and financially support Timoshenko’s bid for the late 2009 or early 2010 presidential election if she broke the coalition, prevented Yushchenko from passing anti-Russian measures and began to pull Orangist supporters to the pro-Russian side."

"For Russia, it does not matter who is the personality running Ukraine as long as that person is listening for Moscow’s orders. Russia is willing to back Timoshenko as long as she proves useful in Moscow’s move to pull Ukraine back into its former master’s orbit."

Some other stuff . . .

http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/28880/video

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=9182

http://english.pravda.ru/hotspots/conflicts/09-08-2008/106046-russia_georgia-0

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=30d_1218581754

http://news.scotsman.com/politics/Gerri-Peev-Flawed-British-responses.4406616.jp

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/JH13Ag05.html

http://observers.france24.com/fr/content/20080812-ostap-blog-review-ossetia

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2006/may/28/georgia.theobserver

liquid August 19, 2008 - 8:39pm

Georgia: Cold war map will not be redrawn, US warns Russia

· Rice says Kremlin risking international isolation
· Nato suspends normal ties with Moscow

* Ian Traynor in Brussels and Julian Borger in Tbilisi
* The Guardian,
* Wednesday August 20 2008

...

French, British and US officials are drafting a UN security council resolution in New York stiffening the terms of a Russian pullout, and agreement was reached to deploy the first western monitors in Georgia. Twenty unarmed military officers are to go to Georgia tomorrow, with another 80 expected to follow within weeks.

But the agreement to deploy international monitors took a week to finalise and was only sealed after negotiations through the night yesterday in Vienna by Finnish diplomats and the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe, together with the Russians and the Georgians.

The agreement suited the Russians, who had insisted the monitors not be permitted into South Ossetia. The observers are to patrol in "Georgia proper" and in what the Russians describe as their "security zone" bordering South Ossetia.

"The Russian side supports the deployment of a considerable number of additional observers in the security zone," said the Russian foreign ministry.

"There is no security zone," the US under-secretary of state, Dan Fried, told the Guardian.

...

Tina August 20, 2008 - 7:48am

"[The US] tried very hard and assertively to support Kosovo's independence, but [to not make it] a precedent," Saunders said. "What the administration doesn't understand is that what's a precedent is in the eyes of the beholder."

"We don't get to decide how other people react to what we do," he said. "Other people get to decide."

Asia Times
By Ali Gharib

WASHINGTON - With the conflict between Georgia and Russia lowered to a simmer after the signing of a ceasefire agreement, questions still remain about the United States role and positions on the start of the conflict as well as where it stands moving forward towards a resolution.

Ten days ago, a full-scale war broke out when Russian and Georgian forces clashed over the breakaway Georgian region of South Ossetia.

The US role during the beginning of the conflict on August 7 is unclear, but a Washington Post article this weekend revealed that Matthew Bryza, a deputy assistant secretary of state and a US

special envoy to the Caucuses, was aware of the Georgian military operations before they started.

At a press conference Tuesday in Washington, and in line with the Georgian position, Bryza said the Georgian military movements were a response to attacks from Ossetian separatists and initial large-scale Russian movements into South Ossetia.

"Who shot whom first?" said Bryza at the Foreign Press Center. "I don't know if we'll ever know the answer to that question," he continued, before going on to call the answer "irrelevant" because "Russia has escalated so brutally" that the international community turned against it.

Moscow has denied the Georgian and US timeline, but did not provide the Washington Post with a Russian timeline of the military movements.

Speaking at a forum at the Atlantic Council for the United States, the immediate former secretary of state for political affairs, R Nicholas Burns, said he blamed Russia completely for the conflict and that the Russian incursions were the "most disappointing" turn Russia has taken since the fall of the Berlin Wall.

Burns, toeing a line pushed strongly by the US representative to the UN, Zalmay Khalizad, last week - and strongly denied by the Russian representative - said the Russian actions were a response to increasing freedom and democracy in Europe since the end of the Cold War.

"Russia has put this at risk," Burns said.

Responding to criticisms that unflinching US support for Georgia may have emboldened Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili to make the misstep of a military move into South Ossetia, a generally pro-Russian province that has been pushing for independence since the early 1990s, Burns said that the charges were unfounded.

Those "pointing the finger" at Georgia and the US were wrong, and Russia was solely to blame for the conflict, he said.

"I don't think the US is to blame for what's happening in Georgia," Burns reiterated to IPS after the Atlantic Council conference. "I think Russia is to blame."

But Paul Saunders, the executive director of the Nixon Center and a specialist on Russia and US-Russia relations, told IPS that he was not surprised that the US and Georgia don't blame themselves.

"Burns is a person who, as undersecretary of state until recently, was part of forming the US policy towards Georgia," he said, making it unlikely for him to find fault with those very policies.

As for the US siding with Georgia, a democratic, pro-Western ally, over South Ossetia and its Russian backers, Burns said the US should not take a role in deciding the borders of European countries.

"We must not be part of the redrawing of lines in Europe," Burns told the wider audience at the Atlantic Council event.

When asked later in the day by IPS if Burns' comment mirrored the US position, Bryza said that he wasn't sure exactly what Burns was talking about. But he was willing to confirm Burns' general message as an appropriate position for the unique case of the Georgian conflict.

"We should not allow this current situation to draw new lines in Europe and prevent a democratically elected government to join NATO if they want," he told IPS.

Many commentators have noted that Russian ambitions to realize independence for South Ossetia and another pro-Russian breakaway region in Georgia, Abkhazia, were greatly bolstered by US support for the independence of Kosovo, which Serbia still considers part of its territory.

But many US officials and their defenders have strongly denied that US support of Kosovo - which came swiftly after its declaration of independence - created a legitimate precedent for Russia to support the independence of the Georgian breakaway regions.

In questions after the conference, Burns told IPS that the Kosovar independence and South Ossetian and Abkhazian independence are "fundamentally different".

"We were right to support the right of independence for Kosovo," Burns said, explaining that the fundamental difference was UN control over Serbia since the war there in late the 1990s sparked by what Burns called Serbian leader Slobodan Milosevic's "savage attack" on Kosovo.

But some commentators have said that the US should have understood when Kosovo declared independence six months ago that the issue of forming an international precedent is not as simple as declaring it as such or not.

"[The US] tried very hard and assertively to support Kosovo's independence, but [to not make it] a precedent," Saunders said. "What the administration doesn't understand is that what's a precedent is in the eyes of the beholder."

"We don't get to decide how other people react to what we do," he said. "Other people get to decide."

more

Tina August 20, 2008 - 8:03am

Anne Penketh: Nato is walking a tightrope over Georgia

Tuesday, 19 August 2008

The Independent

snip

So the likeliest outcome from today's Nato is that a tough message will be agreed, but one that will shy away from tough actions that would end up hurting the West. Nato could well suspend ministerial meetings with Russia for example. The Nato-Russia council is seen basically as a talking shop so that would not be
.
But it also remains to be see how the newly assertive Russia will react. Russia's envoy to Nato, Dmitry Rogozin has warned that if such a decision is taken in support of the "the Georgian aggressor", we will not be able to maintain the quality and the schedule of our relationship with NATO."
.
Russia, he said, could in turn hit back by reconsidering all of its potention cooperation with Nato – including allowing NATO to cross Russian territory to reach Afghanistan.

.
That is why Nato is walking a tightrope today.

Tina August 20, 2008 - 8:06am

SPIEGEL INTERVIEW WITH GERHARD SCHRÖDER
'Serious Mistakes by the West'

Former German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder discusses the war in the Caucasus, the possibility of Germany serving as an intermediary in the conflict and his belief in a constructive role for Russia.

Tina August 20, 2008 - 8:16am

http://www.kyivpost.com/top/29431/

"Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko's office on Monday accused Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, his "Orange Revolution" ally, of betraying national interests by not backing Georgia in its conflict with Russia."

Hmmmm . . . seems to me that Yushchenko - with a 7 % rating in the polls - is betraying Ukrainian national interests by pushing for NATO membership, even though only about 20 % of Ukrainians want to join NATO.

Ukraine leaders split under Russian pressure:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2580485/Ukraine-leaders-split-under-Russian-pressure.html

liquid August 20, 2008 - 8:39am

Echo Chamber

By Joshua Foust(Registan.net) Tue 19 Aug 2008 11:52 AM
Columbia Journalism Review

Elite bloggers often portray their analytical and news-gathering skills as equal or (more often) superior to those of professional journalists. Plenty of stories support this point of view: the “Rathergate” scandal that caught Dan Rather pushing an unconfirmed story about President Bush, the multiple cases highlighting fraudulent photography from conflict zones in the Middle East, and so on. But in the case of the ongoing conflict between Russia and Georgia, the blogging world mostly failed to live up to its promises.

Days after the fighting began, even normally excellent sources of analysis and insight, such as The Washington Monthly’s Kevin Drum or the Small Wars Journal’s blog, were still linking to the same narrow set of news sources —sources that offered little more than thin quotes from government officials. While this isn’t necessarily a knock on, say, Reuters or The New York Times (it takes a little time to get a correspondent on scene), it is a tremendous failure on the part of the blogosphere, noteworthy for precisely how it failed to deliver on its original promise: breaking out of the mainstream media’s tendency toward groupthink.

more at CJR

Tina August 20, 2008 - 9:18am

Baltimore Sun

Ron Smith
August 20, 2008

Nicholas Carr thinks that Google is making us "stoopid." In a recent piece in The Atlantic, he says those of us who constantly surf the Net can't concentrate properly anymore -- that instant access to virtually all information reduces our attention span. Mr. Carr says he can no longer immerse himself in a book or a long article, something that used to be easy for him. Has this happened to you? I thought so. It's happened to me as well.

Mr. Carr points to research that suggests we may be in the middle of neurological changes in the way we read and think. He has been influential and controversial in his writings on information technology, which he doesn't believe to be the savior so many think it is. If you want to learn more about this man and his message, well, just Google his name; it's as easy as that. Which kind of illustrates his point.

Obviously, there are compensations for the price of having a shorter attention span. No longer does a writer have to camp out in the library stacks in order to do whatever research is necessary for the latest book or scholarly article. It's all there, gobs and gobs of it, available with a few mouse clicks.

"My mind now expects to take in information," says Mr. Carr, "the way the Net distributes it: in a swiftly moving stream of particles. Once I was a scuba diver in the sea of words. Now I zip along the surface like a guy on a Jet Ski."

I've been zipping around the Net, reading, among other things, about the extraordinary events in Georgia, the former Soviet republic turned American ally in the Caucasus, whose leader decided to beard the Russian bear in his den. He set about ethnically cleansing (don't you love the bloodlessness of that idiotic euphemism for driving populations from their living spaces by attacking and killing them?) the province of South Ossetia of Russians and Ossetians who are opposed to living under Georgian rule and are in an autonomous region under the protection of Russian "peacekeepers."

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili, educated at Georgetown and Columbia universities, seemed to think American assurances of support in moving his troops and armor into South Ossetia meant more than, "We'll hold your coat while you get your butt whipped by the Russkies." He was wrong. When Russia countered his attack and routed his American- and Israeli-trained and -equipped fighters, it became quickly apparent that the United States wasn't about to battle Russia. It would use harsh words and threaten bad things to come if the Russians didn't back off, but that, so far, is the extent of it.

Most of the mass media here have been singing the government's tune on this confrontation --blaming it on Russia and overlooking the Georgian crackdown in South Ossetia. But on the Internet, it's become quite evident that elsewhere in the world there is a different take on the crisis: simply put, that the United States erred in thinking it could continually encroach upon Russia's periphery without consequence.

..

The president complained that Russia's response was "disproportionate," perhaps forgetting that he found nothing disproportionate about Israel invading, blockading and bombing Lebanon for more than a month in 2006 following the abduction of two Israel Defense Forces soldiers by Hezbollah fighters.

Finally, The Wall Street Journal points out, "Russia's attack on Georgia has become an unexpected source of support for big U.S. weapons programs, including flashy fighter jets and high-tech destroyers, that have had to battle for funding this year because they appear obsolete for today's conflicts with insurgent opponents."

It may not make sense to most of us to fire up the Cold War again, but to the military/industrial behemoth, it's money in the bank.

Tina August 20, 2008 - 10:28am

By MIKHAIL GORBACHEV
Published: August 19, 2008

* Read All Comments (225) »

THE acute phase of the crisis provoked by the Georgian forces’ assault on Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, is now behind us. But how can one erase from memory the horrifying scenes of the nighttime rocket attack on a peaceful town, the razing of entire city blocks, the deaths of people taking cover in basements, the destruction of ancient monuments and ancestral graves?

Russia did not want this crisis. The Russian leadership is in a strong enough position domestically; it did not need a little victorious war. Russia was dragged into the fray by the recklessness of the Georgian president, Mikheil Saakashvili. He would not have dared to attack without outside support. Once he did, Russia could not afford inaction.

The decision by the Russian president, Dmitri Medvedev, to now cease hostilities was the right move by a responsible leader. The Russian president acted calmly, confidently and firmly. Anyone who expected confusion in Moscow was disappointed.

The planners of this campaign clearly wanted to make sure that, whatever the outcome, Russia would be blamed for worsening the situation. The West then mounted a propaganda attack against Russia, with the American news media leading the way.

The news coverage has been far from fair and balanced, especially during the first days of the crisis. Tskhinvali was in smoking ruins and thousands of people were fleeing — before any Russian troops arrived. Yet Russia was already being accused of aggression; news reports were often an embarrassing recitation of the Georgian leader’s deceptive statements.

It is still not quite clear whether the West was aware of Mr. Saakashvili’s plans to invade South Ossetia, and this is a serious matter. What is clear is that Western assistance in training Georgian troops and shipping large supplies of arms had been pushing the region toward war rather than peace.

If this military misadventure was a surprise for the Georgian leader’s foreign patrons, so much the worse. It looks like a classic wag-the-dog story.

more at NYT

Tina August 20, 2008 - 10:54am

Posted: 21 August 2008 0427 hrs

OSLO: Russia has decided to freeze its military cooperation with NATO and allied countries until further notice, the Norwegian defence ministry said on Wednesday.

"Norway has received information that Russia has decided to 'freeze' all military cooperation with NATO and allied countries until further notice," the ministry said in a statement.

A ministry spokeswoman, Heiki Langvik-Hansen, told AFP "the Russian defence ministry had telephoned the Norwegian embassy in Moscow" informing Norway of the development.

NATO foreign ministers had on Tuesday declared that "business as usual" with Moscow was now impossible following Russia's invasion of Georgian territory in a fierce conflict over the South Ossetia separatist region.

NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer accused Russia of failing to respect a French-brokered peace plan requiring both sides to move troops back to their positions before Georgia launched an offensive on the separatist region of South Ossetia.

The Russian navy meanwhile announced it had cancelled its participation in naval manoeuvres planned in the Baltic Sea as part of its partnership with NATO, and said it was currently "not considered possible" to host the US naval frigate Ford.

more

Tina August 20, 2008 - 9:17pm

Perhaps it deserves a thread of its own.

I did inhale.

Don August 22, 2008 - 8:54am

but they have no upcoming events until into September.

Tina August 22, 2008 - 2:39pm

AFP - Moscow moved closer on Wednesday to recognising the independence of Georgian separatist regions, escalating a bruising international row over Russia's assault on the ex-Soviet republic.

In Abkhazia, a strategically placed Black Sea province, the separatist parliament and president issued an appeal asking Russia to recognise their independence, an AFP correspondent said.

The leader of South Ossetia, Eduard Kokoity, told Interfax news agency that his separatist region would issue a similar appeal soon.

The deputy speaker of the Russian parliament's upper house, the Federation Council, announced an emergency session on Monday to debate recognising Abkhazia and also South Ossetia – both under control of Russian troops since last week.

"The Federation Council is ready to recognise the independent status of South Ossetia and Abkhazia if that is what the people of these republics want," Interfax news agency quoted council speaker Sergei Mironov as saying.


"The mythical John McCain is an affable, straight-talking, moderately conservative war hero who is an expert on foreign policy" - Bob Herbert

nymole August 20, 2008 - 10:48pm

Civil Georgia Georgia would like to have had “concrete help on the ground,” rather than just statements of support from the international community, President Saakashvili said on August 20.

Speaking at a meeting with lawmakers from the ruling party, Saakashvili said that “Russian occupiers” had failed to achieve their goals and to ruin the Georgian state.

“I am proud of my people and the entire world is proud of Georgians; this is not an exaggeration; just take a look at foreign TV networks and you will see what kind of statements are being made,” he said. “We would like to have had a concrete help on the ground, rather than just statements.”

“Despite of my numerous warnings – I did not want to look like being in panic, but I have told to almost every world leader, that that [the Russian invasion] could happen – the world believed in it only after it had actually happened.”

“What is now happening in Georgia is a struggle between the civilization and non-civilization; struggle between medieval centuries and the 21st century and we are on the forefront of this struggle. But I am sure that now it is clear for everyone that Georgia should not be left alone and everyone understood – although painfully – that the Europe’s future is now determined here.”

Petronius August 20, 2008 - 11:49pm

eom.


"The mythical John McCain is an affable, straight-talking, moderately conservative war hero who is an expert on foreign policy" - Bob Herbert

nymole August 21, 2008 - 7:27am

ICH

By Mike Whitney

21/08/08 "ICH" -- - When Vladimir Putin heard President Bush demand that Russian troops "leave Georgia territory immediately", he did what any sensible leader of a great nation would do; he yawned, scratched his belly and ambled over to the Kremlin frig to see if there were any left-overs from last night's imperial banquet with the French dignitaries. He may have even smiled wistfully to himself as he peered over the Chicken Kiev and the Siberian cutlets, thinking, "Nyet, George; South Ossetia's future is no longer negotiable".

...

American's are convinced that their activities in the world still matter. That's because Americans are marinated in a culture of narcissism. In truth, "American exceptionalism" is just a misunderstanding of one's own basic insignificance. The dust-up in South Ossetia will help dispel some of those illusions and clarify what little influence the US really has. Bush demagoguery and foot-stomping won't change a thing; he's wasting his time. This is Russia' backyard. They'll decide the outcome. Bush should stop his jabbering and mind his own business.

And, no; there won't be a war with Russia; that's all just more handwringing speculation from liberal pundits. It's pure rubbish. The Bush administration will do what US policymakers always do when faced with a well-armed adversary; thrust their sabers into the air and rattle them ferociously while beating a hasty retreat. "Cut and run" is not a neocon bullet-point; it's a summary of 60 years of foreign policy. In fact, the US and its good friend, Israel, sing from the same hymnal; they love blasting-away at defenseless women and children in Gaza or Falluja, but stear-clear of the guys with guns and rocket-launchers. Israel lost a mere 118 men in its 34 Day war with Hezbollah before they decided to pack it in and go home. Putin knows that; that's why he's been sending anti-aircraft weaponry to Iran hoping it will dissuade Israel from doing something foolish, like blowing up what's left of the Middle East. And, it's a good plan, too. Bush and Olmert have already shown that moral considerations don't make a bit of difference; what matters is weapons and men who know how to use them.

Now that the Russian army is in South Ossetia, Bush, Cheney, Rice have been getting madder and more frustrated by the day. "Get out now or face the consequences", they growl. But, Putin, with obvious disdain, just shrugs his shoulders and says, "Make me".

Everyone in the world knows what's going on. They can see that Putin has drawn a line in the sand and is openly challenging American credibility. This is the perfect opportunity for Bush to prove that he's really the War President he says he is and not just a cardboard-cutout fraudster. He can show those smug Ruskis who's really the boss. After all, he has Putin's address, doesn't he? He can order his war machine to turn north and head for Georgia, guns blazing. What's stopping him?

South Ossetia is a tipping point; the culmination of 8 years of persistent violence and aggression. It is the moment of truth. Now we'll see what the real 'governing principle' of the administration's foreign policy is: is it the Bush Doctrine or the Wimp Doctrine? Many of the pundits and analysts are convinced that Bush and his clatter of gangsters will lead us into WW3, but it won't happen. It's just more hot air. There are more chickens in the Bush White House than there are at a KFC Poultry Farm. They're only too eager to send some other mother's sons to fight their wars, but they'd never risk losing anything themselves. Go ahead George; you're the war president, President. Show the world those aren't Lima beans hanging between your legs. Let's see what you got?

Bush isn't going to send American troops in South Ossetia. No way. This is a man who won't peep his head out of the White House without 8,000 armed guards shadowing his every move and a small squadron of Apache Helicopters flying overhead. A guy like that isn't about to take on the Russian army. Forget about it. Bush will do all his fighting from the safety of the Executive Media Center where he can duck behind the Presidential podium if a car backfires on Pennsylvania Ave. That's his kind of fighting.

...
I did inhale.

Don August 22, 2008 - 9:05am

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