You think Clinton is a beast? There goes another vote for your guy in November. Paging Gannon.

_{"While not a Playboy reader, she invites a male acquaintance in for a quiet discussion of Chagall, Nietzsche, jazz, sex." - not a Hugh Hefner quote}

adrena, it isn't Gannon's fault lol I don't recall him being nasty in his postings. :)

You are right to suggest that Gannon is not nasty in his postings. However, he felt the need to point out to me, after I made an inflammatory comment about Obama supporters, that civilized discourse is more effective. I just wished to draw his attention to uncivilized discourse elsewhere. I believe it would be unfair if only Hillary supporters have to be civilized. How would Obama supporters feel if I called him a beast, a dog, a bastard etc. Someone admonished me once for calling Obama a Messiah.

_{"While not a Playboy reader, she invites a male acquaintance in for a quiet discussion of Chagall, Nietzsche, jazz, sex." - not a Hugh Hefner quote}

As a conduit I never know where my posts are going to lead to discussion-wise. Jeff Gannon? C'mon, politics is absurd enough already.
I was thinking more of the Clinton campaign as an entity, the whole Hillary movement, not her as an individual ... tho I'm sure she has some beastly aspects. :)

Jeff Gannon that would make it absurd to even have a discussion with him?
Just Curious!

_{"While not a Playboy reader, she invites a male acquaintance in for a quiet discussion of Chagall, Nietzsche, jazz, sex." - not a Hugh Hefner quote}

I'm just saying Jeff Gannon is a silly footnote in political history that's beneath validating further with any attention or pretense of relevance here.

but her refusal to capitulate in the face of popular defeat, at the expense of great damage to the Democratic party's prospects in the general election, has made her campaign into the likeness of a cornered beast. Why do you think the worst of the freeper types are supportive of her?

In the spirit of disclosure, I'll point out that I am not a Democrat nor an Obama supporter. I voted for Nader in 2000 and 2004, and if on election day the Democrats again offer up a candidate whose positions I can't support, I'll vote again for someone who does represent my views.

I don't trust Obama, but there is still some chance I'll vote for him if he doesn't slip towards the right after the convention. Hillary-- no chance. Pandering to warmongers, gas hogs, and peckerwoods shows that she's already passed the point of no return. At this point she's just burning crops to deny them to the (Democratic) victor.

"... at the expense of great damage to the Democratic party's prospects in the general election"

And what great damage would that be? I mean the real kind, as opposed to the Bush-kind suffered when Gore-was-such-a-bore and Kerry lost his war medals windsurfing in his flip-flops.

"...cunning, baffling, powerful."

and embossing each others' political liabilities into the public consciousness months before the Rs would have kicked into high gear to do the same. In other words, they are doing McCain's work for him, on their own dime.

Thanks so much for diverting this thread - which I thought was about gas-guzzling autos and Detroit's desperate clinging to them~

_{Turn back to the Constitution - and READ it.}

CAFE standards lose their impact in the luxury market. Obviously, if a maker is selling 200,000 cars for $20,000 a piece, then it couldn't tack $3000 extra on each vehicle (if they were 'gas guzzlers') because it's such a big percentage of the price.

Luxury makes like Lamborghini - even volume makers like Mercedes - have never actually made the average. They just tack the fines onto the window sticker and make the customer pay.

Even though GM is the 'badguy' in this post, it's interesting to note that they never had a fleet that didn't make the average up until 2004 when they tried selling a revived GTO super car (and even then, with the manual transmission, there was no fine).

Buy a horse and cart.

Nobody begrudges the use of larger vehicles where necessary for business. You simply pass the rising cost of fuel to your customers.

That will work until your customers decide they can do without your services, or a competitor comes along with a more cost-efficient alternative (like the horse and cart mentioned in a previous comment).

The cost of fossil fuels is going to keep going up indefinitely. Everything is going to change, folks. Think hard about it.

...then there would be plenty of fuel for actual work vehicles.
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Good times for Smiley! :-D

If they weren't so suspicious and would let us telecommute, it would save even more fuel, money and time. My fear there is that they're going to then want us to all have web cams so they can watch us and see if we're working.

Next we'll have to wear a coat and tie when working at home. Smile! You want to look pretty for the camera! :)

why not telegovernance while we're at it. -while we still have the unique moment.

If you can telecommute from home, you can telecommute from India.

“The Playboy reader invites a female acquaintance in for a quiet discussion of Picasso, Nietzsche, jazz, sex.” - Hugh Hefner

In general, you're absolutely correct. A slight advantage that you have from telecommuting in from the general vicinity is that it's still relatively easy, and inexpensive, to show up at the office when needed or useful. I don't know if that's enough to offset the price differential.

And, iChat makes for pretty inexpensive videoconferencing which wouldn't care if you were in India, or wherever, which counters somewhat the ability of a local to be in the office.

But, who knows, with the rampant dollar deflation, maybe it will be cheaper to hire us here.

Still, you're point's well taken.

In 1973, during the first American energy crisis, I met a person who had just bought a late model Cadillac Sedan de Ville for $400.00 because the person selling it couldn't get anyone to take it as trade-in on a sub-compact.

We did it all over again in 1979. Maybe this time we won't regress.

the environment is the big winner.

_{"While not a Playboy reader, she invites a male acquaintance in for a quiet discussion of Chagall, Nietzsche, jazz, sex." - not a Hugh Hefner quote}

"Mobile Storage."
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Good times for Smiley! :-D

Maybe these guys can help you. Basically, they drop the driveshaft and substitute two electric motors and a battery pack with controller. Regenerative braking and better low-end torque for start-stop driving.

AFS Trinity

$8700, all OEM parts, 150 mpg, in any vehicle it will fit into. The demo I saw was a Saturn Vue.

"...cunning, baffling, powerful."

Also of possible interest, from 1979, Michael Brown: "Brown's Alcohol Motor Fuel Cookbook", ISBN 0-87947-300-2, Desert Publications, Cornville, Arizona, 86325. Been 29 years but maybe in used bookstore. How to modify carburetor, etc - fairly technical, beyond my skill set, but tinkerers will likely find plenty of ideas and enjoyment.