Goldman Sees Recession In 2008


Typical for Goldman, they're late. I wonder how hard Abby Rah-rah Cohen fought it? Regardless, Goldman nows sees recession in 2008:

Goldman Sachs on Wednesday said it expects the U.S. economy to drop into recession this year, prompting the Federal Reserve to slash benchmark lending rates to 2.5 percent by the third quarter.

In a note to clients, Goldman said real gross domestic product would contract by 1 percent on an annualized basis in both the second and third quarters. For all of 2008, the investment bank said GDP would rise by 0.8 percent.

The unemployment rate will rise to 6.5 percent in 2009 from the current 5 percent, it said.

What's next? They going to call oil at $105 a barrel? Maybe gold at $900?


Sean Paul Kelley January 9, 2008 - 5:24pm
( categories: Economics: USA )

in the last few days, a thought has stuck with me like an earworm:
they want to deliberately tank the dollar to lay ground for the amero currency with a view toward some north american union.
as if invading iraq was as much about that as anything, and if not iran in the future as well, then other countries, to fill coffers to be later liquidated...
i figure i'm ill-informed, simple and naive, broadly speaking, but still have such views that assert themselves inescapably to me and this is such, and a large one at that...

Zuma January 9, 2008 - 6:30pm

Why should Canada ever agree to this? It took 40 years of political integration in Europe before the Euro could become a reality. The border posts between Germany and France were long abandoned before the Euro was introduced. A nation that would like nothing more than to fence itself in will not do. When have you last crossed a US land border?

quax January 9, 2008 - 10:04pm

why would *any* nation submit to joining us in the north american union?
i never saw anything about actually *asking* them... it sounds crazy to me too.

as far as land borders go, this past summer i turned down an offer of a house (in north maine) literally on the canadian border; the backyard backed right up to it. (and the last time i crossed our border was to go to colombia 40 years ago, as far as that goes.)

the amero as fiction: at this point i'd believe anything was believed possible by those who want it. it truly does seem to me like the neocons are trying to tank the dollar. i can't help but suspect that all the dollars the war profiteers have made thus far had been quickly turned into other assets like gold, from other countries.

Zuma January 18, 2008 - 10:53am

We are about to enter a recession that is not based upon a cyclical correction. And because of the systemic nature of this downturn, it may be much much harder to recover from it.

The financial community makes a fundamental error in their thinking. Available energy has flatlined after nearly 150 years of growing at whatever rate the economists want it to (4% annually for the twentieth century equal to the rate of economic growth). If energy has flatlined, not because demand has flatlined but because the supply of energy is finite, what happens to economic growth?

The world has made a fundamental shift as it has crossed to the other side of growing energy, to a world of declining energy. If the financial community lends as if it is business as usual, they will set their rates to low, because if peoples earning power stops growing their ability to pay back loans will be harder and more risky.

Oil is expensive today because the supply of oil is running about 1 million barrels short of supply each week in the developed world. Day in and day out we are draining our reserves and have for nearly one and half years. And this shortage is getting worse. The drain in the United States alone last week was one million barrels per day more demand than the markets could supply. Hence $100 per barrel oil.

The pressures of shortage and rising prices for oil creates a slowdown and decline in economic growth that the financial community is not recognizing. Further, this is a bias that most negatively impacts the suburbs, or car culture, with large houses at great distance from jobs and everything else. Imagine a family buying a $200,000 house with $1,200 ($15,000 per year approximately) mortgage and salary of $50,000. The mortgage is 30% of wages, and the additional assumption of the financial community is that those wages should grow at 2.5% per year or just under the rate of economic growth. (Lets leave inflation out of it). So $50,000 in five years will be $56,500 and the mortgage will be 26% of the salary.

But what happens if growth flatlines, the salary flatlines, and energy gets more expensive. What happens if gas costs go from $1,000 per year to $2,000 per year (from 2% of salary to 4% of salary). What happens if heating bills go from $1,500 per year to $3,000 per year. What happens if healthcare costs go from $4,000 per year to $5,000, and food from $$5,000 per year to $6,000 (also because of higher energy costs). This family in five years is underwater and defaulting on their mortgage. It does not work, especially in the suburbs where all these energy costs are compounded.

In a declining energy environment, it is becoming more and more difficult for families and businesses to pay back their loans, because a flatlining energy environment removes the ability to grow the economy and wages, while simultaneously raising the costs of gas, home heating and food.

Worse. This situation is related to the fact that energy cannot be readily increased so the problem cannot go away with the usual financial incentives, like lowering taxes, government rebates, or lower interest rates.

In fact, it is certain to get worse in years ahead, as oil, natural gas, metals, wheat, corn, sugar. All commodities become more expensive because EVERYTHING is dependent on energy. Gas prices will probably go to $4.50 per gallon this summer. Meat and milk and butter is forecast to rise another 30%. Electricity is forecast to rise over 20% over the next two years.

The only answer is reduced reliance on a declining energy base, and that means - can only mean - economic retrenchment.

Scotjen61 January 9, 2008 - 7:05pm

i spent a couple of months in caribou, maine this past summer. caribou is at the northernmost tip of maine, about as far north as one can get in the lower 48 states. it's small, and rural, a farming area. they were largely subsidized for years by there being loring air force base situated there (in limestone). when it shut down 9 years ago, they were very hurt economically. (outside of farming, one of the biggest employers there now is sitel, a large telemarketing concern, where i worked for their countrywide home loans client selling adjustable rate second mortgages.) everything was expensive to buy. when i asked why, it was explained to me that all goods had to be trucked in from at least southern maine. (maine is a tall vertical state. far north, it is exceedingly cold most of the year, making trucking difficult.)

---

i'd like to add that the hypothetical situation expressed here of a family making 30K a year and buying a 200K house quickly and easily seems to me far overreaching and unwise and unrealistic. i sure wouldn't try it. i'd look for something a quarter of that cost. but. i live in oklahoma city where just 3-4 years ago one could get a nice house for 50K. things have radically changed. yep.

Zuma January 9, 2008 - 7:36pm

a lot of suburbs and exurbs just don't make sense as oil goes up.

Neither do big box stores, as far as that goes.

Microlocal production is where we'll be in 20 to 30 years, probably, unless the energy problem is fixed at a low cost. And this era of globalization is in its twilight years.

Ian Welsh January 9, 2008 - 8:20pm

There is also the fact that those possessing large numbers of dollars have got to spend them somewhere. As bets in dollars become dangerous simply for the fact that they are in dollars, dollar holders will be inclined to spend their dollars on things (commodities) that can be used to raise standards of living. This will of course create more of a commodities crunch for those of us who can't get out from under our dollar denominated lives.

hvd January 9, 2008 - 9:25pm

But it was a 200k house and 50k salary. This is a norm in the lending industry as a ratio of four times annual earnings. It used to be three.

Scotjen61 January 9, 2008 - 7:53pm

was the normal ratio here in Canada for all the years I took an interest in real estate. I'm disturbed (but completely unsurprised) to hear that assumption changed; when did that happen?


"The best-informed man is not necessarily the wisest. Indeed there is a danger that precisely in the multiplicity of his knowledge he will lose sight of what is essential."

- Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Escher Sketch January 9, 2008 - 10:29pm

It seems like the ratio should be interest rate related, and, if we postulate, for example, 30 year fixed rate loans with a fixed monthly payment, the change in ratio is justified by a relatively small difference in the interest rate.

NateTG January 10, 2008 - 3:46am

But I'll tell you, it is almost as if the interest rate was lowered to accommodate higher property tax and utility costs on housing. If you look at total costs for being in a house, it has not changed that much even though interest rates have declined from 9% to 6%.

Scotjen61 January 10, 2008 - 11:50am

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22592939/

WASHINGTON - Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke pledged Thursday to slash interest rates as needed to prevent housing and credit problems from plunging the country into a recession.

The Fed chief made clear the central bank was prepared to act aggressively to rescue a weakening economy. “We stand ready to take substantive additional action as needed to support growth and to provide adequate insurance against downside risks,” he said.

Bernanke showed his hand in terms of the Fed’s likely next move amid mounting concerns that the economy may be in danger.

more

I did inhale.

Don January 10, 2008 - 7:36pm

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