...mainly about the immediate issue too quickly. In a society with compulsory military service, when being taken alive by these guys is any thinking soldier or parent's worst nightmare? My perception is that it resonates with that electorate more than it does in the States due to these and myriad other factors.

"We declared war on terror, it's not even a noun, so, good luck. After we defeat it, I'm sure we'll take on that bastard ennui." - Jon Stewart.

of some of the tactics the Israelis are using. A Palestinian woman holding a child sobbed, "There is nothing more to lose, all we have left is hope."

This is what I was told three times today by an educated young man with a college degree. He said "it is biblical", we (the US and the Jews) are supposed to be there.

Last Updated: Thursday, 29 June 2006, 11:23 GMT 12:23 UK

Press furore over Gaza offensive
BBC

Israeli papers disagree on the methods the government should use to free an Israeli soldier currently being held by Palestinian militants.

The Palestinian press harbours little hope of the international community putting pressure on Israel to halt its Gaza offensive.

Elsewhere in the Arab world, papers mix fierce criticism of Israel's actions with indignation at the West's reaction to the soldier's abduction. Some commentators accuse Israel of involvement in "ethnic cleansing", "genocide" and "racist extermination".

Individual papers remarks at link

Polls show most Israelis prefer talks with the Palestinians on captured soldier, would agree to free prisoners held by the Jewish state to secure his release.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200606/s1676168.htm

"Round and round, round we go." - Tupac

un. 30, 2006 15:55
Turkey: Thousands protest Israel's Gaza offensive

By ASSOCIATED PRESS
ISTANBUL, Turkey

Thousands of angry Turks burned Israeli flags and chanted pro-Hamas slogans Friday in a protest against Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip.

Hundreds of women, many wearing black chadors or Islamic-style head scarves, carried Palestinian flags and yelled, "Murderer Israel, get out of Palestine!"

A man with a loud speaker warned the Jewish state that it was turning Turkey's 70 million Muslims against it. "Inshallah (God willing), all of Turkey will show in coming days that it is behind Palestine!" he said.

"Inshallah!" the crowd yelled back.

As protesters streamed out of the Beyazid Mosque after prayers and began to fill the square, police said they estimated 5,000 people had shown up. Later, they downgraded that estimate to 2,000.

Egypt: Thousands rally in support of Palestinians
By ASSOCIATED PRESS
CAIRO, Egypt

Thousands rallied in one of Egypt's main mosques Friday protesting Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip, many calling on Arab governments to take action to protect the Palestinians.

Hundreds of security forces in riot gear lined up alongside Cairo's Al-Azhar Mosque during the protest following weekly prayers. But there was no move to crack down on the demonstration, and police commanders said they wanted to avoid a confrontation, even though the protest was organized by one of the government's top rivals, the Muslim Brotherhood.

"Rulers of Arab countries, start jihad (holy war). Allah Akbar (God is great)," shouted a group of men in the mosque, while nearby several dozen women worshippers chanted, "Keep our country free and tell the (Israeli) ambassador to leave. We will not be afraid, we will not back down, we will not be silent."

Several small demonstrations were held in other parts of the Arab world. But the weekly Friday prayers at mosques - a frequent launching ground for political protests - did not see a massive outpouring of anger over the Israeli assault in Gaza, sparked by the abduction of an Israeli soldier by Hamas-linked militants.

Governments, particularly Egypt's, appeared eager not to enflame sentiments.

Arab governments brace for pro-Palestinian outrage

Anger flares in North Africa over Israeli attack

Collective punishment is a war crime. But Israel and America stopped caring about these quaint international conventions a long time ago.

Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniya has denounced Israel's offensive in Gaza as an attempt to bring down the Hamas-led government.

In his first public address since Israel's campaign began, Mr Haniya said Hamas would not change its policies.

He said steps were being taken to secure the release of an Israeli soldier who was captured on Sunday.

The statement came as Israel continued to strike militant targets in Gaza, three days after the offensive began.

Speaking at Friday prayers in Gaza City, Mr Haniya said Israel was using Cpl Gilad Shalit's capture by militants as a pretext to bring down his government.

"This total war is proof of a premeditated plan," he told worshippers.

He said Israel's detention of dozens of Hamas officials on Thursday was "meant to hijack the [Palestinian] government's position, but we say no positions will be hijacked, no governments will fall".

Mr Haniya said he was in contact with Arab, Muslim and European leaders to try to resolve the crisis, "but this Israeli military escalation complicates the situation".

'Systematic campaign'

On Friday, Israel revoked the East Jerusalem residency rights of a Hamas cabinet minister and three Hamas MPs held in mass detentions the previous day.

BARRED HAMAS OFFICIALS
Khaled Abu Arafa, Minister for Jerusalem Affairs
Mohammed Abu Tir, MP
Ahmed Abu Atoun, MP
Mahmoud Totah, MP

The Israeli interior ministry said it acted after the four failed to meet a deadline to renounce their membership of the group. The officials were given the ultimatum in May.

The ministry said the timing of the move was not connected to efforts to free Cpl Shalit.

A lawyer for the four men, Osama Saadi, said he would appeal to Israel's Supreme Court, the Associated Press news agency reported.

If the appeal fails, the MPs face being excluded from Jerusalem and barred from travelling freely within Israel.

About 200,000 Palestinians are residents of East Jerusalem, occupied by Israel in 1967 and later annexed in a move not recognised internationally.

Palestinian political activity in the eastern part of the city is prohibited under interim peace accords.

'All-out war'

During Thursday night's air strikes, Israeli warplanes fired missiles into the Palestinian interior ministry in Gaza City, setting the building ablaze. The building was empty at the time.

GAZA CRISIS TIMELINE
Sun 25 June: Cpl Shalit Gilad captured in cross-border attack
Mon 26 June: Palestinian Popular Resistance Committees demand prisoner releases in exchange for Gilad
Tues 27 June: Israel launches air strikes on Gaza, military enters southern strip
Thurs 29 June: Israel detains dozens of Hamas officials

A member of the militant Islamic Jihad group was killed in a missile strike in Rafah in southern Gaza, Palestinian medical sources said.

At least 20 other targets included an office of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah group, militant training camps, a weapons storage facility in Gaza City and sites used by militants to fire rockets at Israel.

Another militant was shot dead by troops in the West Bank city of Nablus, Palestinian sources said.

There were also reports of heavy exchanges of fire between militants and an undercover Israeli force near the northern town of Jabaliya.

The Israelis have denied that any of its troops are in northern Gaza, but in reality they would be unlikely to confirm the presence of an undercover unit, says the BBC's Alan Johnston in Gaza.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/5132514.stm

Published: 2006/06/30 13:34:17 GMT

Friday, June 30, 2006
[Haaretz features novel Olmert spin] Government orders freeze on IDF operation in north Gaza - PM rejects Beit Hanun plan as 'no good'

Government orders freeze on IDF operation in north Gaza
PM rejects Beit Hanun plan as 'no good'

By Avi Issacharoff and Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondents, and Agencies 30
June 2006
www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/732506.html

[IMRA: It is not clear why the Olmert team appears to have provided this
face-saving spin only to Haaretz]

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert on Thursday rejected a proposal by Defense
Minister Amir Peretz and the Israel Defense Forces for a ground operation in
the northern Gaza Strip against the ongoing Qassam rocket fire.

Olmert demanded that they present him with an approved operational plan.

According to government sources, the operation, which will target Beit
Hanun, will take place, but Olmert wants the operation to be "prolonged and
exhausting," and did not believe that the plan he was shown fit the bill.

The decision was made following consultations held by Olmert and Peretz with
security officials, after Egypt asked Israel to allow more time for
negotiations on the release of IDF soldier Gilad Shalit, abducted Sunday
from a post near the Gaza border.

The sources added that while IDF Chief of Staff Dan Halutz approved the
plan, other IDF officers opposed it, and Olmert was informed of their
objections.

The operation was aimed at halting Qassam rockets from being fired at
southern Israel. Meanwhile, six of the homemade rockets struck the western
Negev and Sderot on Thursday evening. There were no casualties.

Defense officials were furious at Peretz Thursday night, accusing him both
of revealing that the planned military offensive in northern Gaza had been
postponed and of denying initial reports that the postponement had been at
Egypt's request.

Egypt had asked Israel to delay the operation at the beginning of the week,
in order to allow time for diplomatic efforts to obtain the release of
kidnapped soldier Gilad Shalit. However, though negotiations with Hamas
officials both in the territories and outside them are continuing, the talks
have yet to yield a breakthrough.

IAF strikes Gaza Interior Ministry building
Israel Air Force planes struck more than a dozen times in Gaza in the hours
after midnight, hitting the Palestinian Interior Ministry and a Fatah office
in Gaza city, as well as a Hamas training camp in the city's outskirts.

IAF early Friday struck the Palestinian Interior Ministry in downtown Gaza
City, Palestinian witnesses said, setting it on fire. There was no word of
casualties.

The Interior Ministry is nominally in charge of Palestinian security forces,
though Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas removed most of its
authority.

The IDF confirmed its planes hit the office of Interior Minister Saeed
Siyam, which it called "a meeting place to plan and direct terror activity."

Palestinian witnesses said IAF missiles also slammed into an office
belonging to Abbas's Fatah group and a Hamas training camp outside the city.

A Palestinian militant injured in an IAF air strike died of his wounds early
Friday, the first fatality in the IDF incursion into the Gaza Strip,
hospital officials said.

The local leader of Islamic Jihad, Mohammed Abdel Al, 25, had been seriously
wounded in an air strike in Rafah in southern Gaza.

Palestinian hospital officials said a 5-year-old girl was wounded in an air
strike in northern Gaza early Friday. Doctors said her condition was not
serious.

On Thursday night, IDF artillery shells hit the electricity distribution
network in the northern Gaza Strip, plunging parts of the area into
darkness.

Palestinian officials said two power transformers were struck, and two
security officers were wounded by shrapnel. Dr. Ali Mousa, director of the
Abu Yousef al-Najar Hospital in Rafah, also said a 15-year-old boy was
moderately wounded by shrapnel in the blast.

The strike came two days after IAF aircraft attacked a major Gaza City power
station, reportedly leaving roughly two-thirds of Gaza's 1.3 million
residents without electricity.

The IDF confirmed it had been firing artillery at open spaces in the area at
the time of Thursday's incident. The army said it has a report of an
electrical pole being hit and was checking if the artillery fire was in any
way related.

IDF artillery units fired more than 400 shells at the Gaza Strip on
Thursday.

Givati infantry troops and the Armored Corps, whose soldiers were to receive
orders to move on Beit Hanun around nightfall, remained poised in their
positions at the north Gaza border.

Mediators involved in contacts to help free Shalit from Palestinian
captivity told Haaretz that Egypt communicated to Jerusalem its wish that
talks be allowed to continue.

Although the talks have yet to yield a breakthrough, negotiations with Hamas
officials in the territories as well as outside of the country are ongoing,
mediators said.

According to information gleaned by the Palestinian Authority, Shalit is
being held in the Khan Yunis refugee camp in southern Gaza. Peretz said
Thursday afternoon that the IDF would sustain its blockade on the Gaza Strip
until Shalit is brought home safely.

The defense minister was speaking at the graduation ceremony of the Israel
Air Force pilots' course.

In a meeting with the heads of the defense establishment earlier in the day,
Peretz predicted there was still a chance for a breakthrough that would lead
to finding Shalit.

"We are now at the crucial moment ahead of setting new rules to the game...
Any action we take must be examined thoroughly, according to its possible
effect on the formulation of these rules," Peretz said.

The IDF has not completely ceased its military activities in Gaza, but is
rather halting any further offensive measures at this stage.

Peretz authorized Thursday the next stages of the IDF's operation in Gaza,
which began overnight Tuesday, and ordered troops to monitor the
humanitarian situation in the Strip.

Hamas gunmen blast hole in border wall
Hundreds of Palestinian and Egyptian police formed human cordons on both
sides of the Gaza-Egypt border Thursday evening, to block a tide of
Palestinians trying to enter after militants blasted a 4-meter hole in a
cement wall near the crossing.

Palestinian security sources reported that the men who detonated the
explosives were Hamas operatives who succeeded in crossing the border into
Sinai from the Brazil neighborhood of Rafah.

Two Palestinian security personnel were wounded in the border explosion, and
security forces were ordered to the area to prevent people from going
through the hole.

Egyptian personnel called a bulldozer to the site in order to dig a dirt
embankment aimed at preventing any infiltration of Palestinians into the
Sinai, but to no avail.

At this stage, the identities of the operatives who carried out the
explosion remain unclear. Palestinian Authority security sources say they do
not know the motive for an escape by Palestinians into Egypt, adding that
they believe the explosion was planned and approved by the upper echelon of
the Hamas military wing.

Abductors taunt Israel over fate of kidnapped soldier
Palestinian militants involved in the kidnapping of Shalit taunted Israel on
Thursday by saying he could be dead or alive.

Abu Mujahed, a spokesman for the Popular Resistance Committees (PRC), which
was involved in the attack that led to Shalit's capture, said in a statement
that Israel should stop wasting time if it wanted to resolve the crisis over
the abduction.

"Possibility one: the missing soldier, for one reason or another, is dead
and maybe there is a morgue available for his body or maybe there is not,"
Abu Mujahed said at a news conference.

"Possibility two is the soldier is still alive but is suffering a serious
injury. Medication might be available or might not be available ...
Possibility three is that he is fine but that a long time will pass [before
he is released].

"Wasting time is not in their interests," he said.

Militants take up positions
Also Thursday, dozens of Palestinian militants armed with grenades and
automatic weapons took up positions near sandpiles and barricades in the
northern Gaza Strip, in anticipation of the IDF operation.

Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades sources claimed Thursday they fired a rocket with
a chemical warhead at Israel. The IDF said they did not identify an impact
of any such rocket nor was there even evidence of a launch.

Meanwhile, the IDF continued its land-based operation in the southern Gaza
Strip, and the Israel Air Force also struck targets in the south in
continued efforts to pressure militants to release Shalit.

The IAF carried out an air strike Thursday afternoon against a car in Gaza
City carrying a senior Islamic Jihad militant, who survived the attack,
Palestinian security sources said.

The IDF confirmed it had targeted a vehicle but gave no details about who it
believed was inside. The militant was lightly wounded in the attack,
witnesses said.

Late Thursday morning IAF aircrafts also fired missiles near Khan Yunis.

Initially, Palestinian medical officials said a car had been targeted, but
then said the car was just close to an open area hit by the missiles. They
said a militant training camp appeared to have been the target. No
casualties were reported.

The IAF earlier struck a weapons warehouse run by Hamas and the Popular
Resistance Committees in the southern Gaza town of Khan Yunis early Thursday
morning. Witnesses also said three missiles fell in an open field used for
training by Hamas militants.

Hamas and the PRC both said they took part in the attack Sunday in which two
soldiers were killed and Corporal Gilad Shalit was abducted.

IDF prepares for incursion
IDF troops were poised to pour into northern Gaza, where Qassam rockets are
launched daily by militants against Israel, in an operation intended to
place pressure on the Palestinian population.

Palestinians fired six Qassam rockets Wednesday. Only one reached the area
near the fence separating the Gaza Strip and Israel.

The IDF has distributed flyers warning residents of Beit Hanun to leave
their homes as the army will begin targeting populated areas. Flyers were
also distributed to residents of the Sajaiyeh neighborhood in Gaza City.

The IDF said strikes on the area would not be conducted by artillery units
but will rather be precision fire from land and air.

Senior military sources had said they expected thousands of Beit Hanun
residents to begin leaving their homes en masse Thursday morning.

Palestinian witnesses said an IAF plane fired a missile at the Islamic
University in Gaza City early Thursday morning. No one was hurt, but
university officials decided to evacuate all 60 guards from the complex
after the attack. The IDF said the missile hit an open field next to the
university.

The IAF also bombarded seven roads the military said were being used by
Qassam launch crews, and Israel Navy vessels were involved overnight in
shelling targets in Gaza.

There were no reports of Palestinian casualties following the strikes.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert warned Tuesday that Israel would not balk at
"extreme action" to retrieve Shalit, but stressed that there is no intention
of reoccupying Gaza, from where Israel withdrew some 10 months ago.

The operation to rescue Shalit, dubbed "Summer Rains," was launched after
two days of failed mediation over his release. "We won't hesitate to carry
out extreme action to bring Gilad back to his family," Olmert said.

Shalit was the first to be seized by Palestinian militants since the 1994
abduction of Corporal Nachshon Waxman, a 19-year-old Israeli-American
soldier. At the time, Sayeret Matkal commandos stormed the safe house where
Waxman was held, but he died in the raid along with a member of the rescue
force and three of his Palestinian kidnappers.

Armed groups historically have used captured IDF soldiers, dead or alive, as
a bargaining chip for the release of Palestinian prisoners held by Israel.

http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=29862

The government is losing its reason

Composure is also strength

The comments are blisering and show the whole range of opinions and emotions.

Isn't tit for tat kidnappings against the Geneva Convention?

un. 30, 2006 2:22 | Updated Jun. 30, 2006 14:51
Jailed Hamas MPs go on hunger strike

By KHALED ABU TOAMEH
RAMALLAH
Jerusalem Post

Talkbacks for this article: 21

Scores of Hamas ministers and legislators arrested by the IDF early Thursday have gone on a hunger strike to protest the clampdown on Hamas, sources close to the group announced on Thursday.

According to the sources, the Hamas officials, who are being held at the Ofer detention center south of Ramallah, decided to go on an open-ended hunger strike to pressure Israel to release them.

The arrests, which caught Hamas by surprise, have effectively crippled the work of the Hamas government and parliament. They have also escalated tensions between Hamas and Fatah, especially after some Hamas leaders claimed that Fatah was trying to take advantage of the Israeli clampdown.

Many Palestinians here said the arrests were likely to bolster Hamas's popularity on the street. They noted that already on Thursday many people, including Fatah supporters, took to the streets to protest the arrests. More protests are expected on Friday in different places in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Although many Fatah leaders publicly expressed outrage at the arrests, some called for seizing the opportunity to return to power, while others did not conceal their satisfaction in private conversations.

"The Hamas leaders can only blame themselves for the latest deterioration," said a top Fatah official. "Their extremism and stubbornness have caused tremendous damage to the Palestinians, especially on the international arena."

Fatah legislator Azzam al-Ahmed raised many eyebrows when he called for forming a new government that would run the affairs of the Palestinians.

"The Palestinian Authority has been paralyzed and there is a need to fill the political vacuum," he said. "It's time for President Mahmoud Abbas to practice his constitutional rights."

Ahmed's statements drew sharp criticism from Hamas, whose representatives retorted by calling on Abbas to resign and dismantle the PA in protest against the arrest of the ministers and legislators. Some of Abbas's aides sought to distance themselves from the statements, arguing that Ahmed was only expressing his personal opinion.

Salah Bardaweel, a Hamas legislator from the Gaza Strip, expressed astonishment at the statements. "From a moral point of view, there should be no talk about holding a funeral for the present government," he said. He also accused Fatah of seeking to exploit the arrests to try to topple the elected government.

Moussa Abu Marzouk, a Hamas leader based in Syria, expressed regret over the statements of Ahmed and other Fatah officials. He urged the Fatah members of the Palestinian Legislative Council to identify with their detained Hamas colleagues. "The occupation is targeting all of us, including President Abbas who has been banned from leaving the Gaza Strip," he said.

more

because it knows the US will back them up.

If they had to actually stand alone in the world and offer themselves as a viable and decent state, it would be very tough going for them.

the Israeli corporal was kidnapped by Palestinians (Hamas?) in revenge for the little girl's family who were killed by shells that fell on the beach in Gaza that killed 7 people. She was the sole survior and it was her entire family that was killed.

Israel tried to claim it wasn't their ship that fired the shells onto the beach--it must have been terrorists to do such a terrible thing.

Doesn't seem like that cooked-up story has been swallowed by anyone.

Israeli military arrested more than 60 officials from the governing Hamas movement.

And now Israel has attacked Gaza to get the kidnapped Israeli corporal back they allege was taken 'without cause' by Palestinian terrorists.

-----

Is there something I don't have correct? I would like to include something the Palestinians have done--feel free to add Palestinian atrocities to Israel's. Let's try to limit it to the most current incident of the girl, her family, and the kidnapped corporal.

While the temptation to pile on and hammer those bad bad Israelis is ever so strong, and clearly so empowering and fulfilling, I'm going to resist and instead try to add some perspective that will surely infuriate those who like to see their world in black and white terms.

Canuck - You ask is there something more here. As with any conflict, how you interpret action partly depends on where you start the story. You decided to start the story at the time a poor little girl tragically lost her family on the beach in Gaza, thus providing more than sufficient justification for the Palestinian gunmen to cross the border into Israel and kill two Israeli soldiers and kidnap a third. What you leave out of your narrative is why the Israelis were shelling the beach area in the first place. Do you know why? Anyone? While you may wish it was so that the Israelis could kill more Palestinian families, thus supporting your good/evil dichotomy, that is not the reason. The IDF was shelling the area that Palestinian gunmen were using to launch missles into Sderot and intentionally target civiliians. Now, in your mind that may be justified behavior since the Israelis once occupied Gaza and the natural and sane response to the occupier leaving is to lob missles at them after the fact and target their citizens. I don't see it the same way, but I drank a lot in my younger years and my judgement can't really be trusted.
So here you have the IDF trying to strike back at the qassam missle launchers, which they are clearly entitled to do. Imagine if the US started lobbing missles into British Columbia and targeting Canadian schools. You think the Canucks would be justified in responding to us and trying to wipe out our missle launchers.
Now you may ask yourself, gee, why were the good Palestinian gunmen firing qassams close by this lovely family on the beach? Well, I don't know for sure, but my guess is that they intentionally launch these missles near population centers so that if the Israelis retaliate they will kill some civies as collateral damage and the Palestinians can then say to the world "SEE WHAT THESE EVIL GENOCIDAL ISRAELIS DO TO US!! THEY INTENTIONALLY MURDERED THIS POOR GIRL'S FAMILY!" I know it's sick and cynical, but if you don't think these assholes rejoice when these PR ops fall into their laps then you are curiously selective in your skepticism.

Now the Israelis claim it wasn't even their shell that killed the girl but an unexploded ordinance on the beach. I don't know what the truth was. There is some reasonable doubt, but for the sake of argument I'll assume that it was the IDF shell that killed the family. Do you think they were intentionally trying to kill civillians? In contrast to the Palestinian gunmen who were targeting schools with their crude missles. Talk to any miliatary person and they will tell you that whatever you think of the Israeli policy in the occupied areas, their military is better than most at trying to minimize civilian casualties. Far too many Palestinian civilians are killed by the IDF, but if the US Army was handling matters, or any of the Middle East Armies, it would be a much greater blood bath. Don't get me wrong - they have some bad mofos in the IDF who should be kept away from weaponry, but an honest appraisal will show them still to be way more concerned with limiting civillian deaths. Just compare Jenin to Fallujah. By all means don't take my word for it. Talk to some military folks who have actually studied the history.

Hope that helps, Canuck.

However finding fair and balanced news about Israel is as hard as finding it on FOX news.

This opinion posted at Counterpunch brings more to light of my problem with Israel's over the top bombing. I believe only one person has died since the bombing began but the consequences could kill many. These people are boxed in, no help can get in and the innocent can't leave. Israel may be trying to avoid civillian deaths(and doing well in that vein) but how many will die in the coming weeks and months that will be ignored by the press?

btw I would like to thank everyone for keeping this discussion on track. There is a reason this subject is rarely discussed and I would hope that we can continue and show that it can be without the usual venom.

So here you have the IDF trying to strike back at the qassam missle launchers, which they are clearly entitled to do. Imagine if the US started lobbing missles into British Columbia and targeting Canadian schools. You think the Canucks would be justified in responding to us and trying to wipe out our missle launchers.

While conceptually there is logic behind your position, and this post doesn't attempt to address your actual argument - British Columbia standing in for Israel and the US representing Palestine?

You might want to reverse your analogy to obtain a more accurate representation of the relative levels of deployable military strength and thus military options, lest it seem that you are inadvertently making a not-so-subtle - and rather risible - claim to the mantle of "victimhood".

Sure. Go one further back. Then go one further back to the Israeli action that spawned the Palestinian, and then back to the Palestinian action that spawned the Israeli. An eye for an eye. Old Testament morality.

Three-year-olds do that same thing.

More is expected of adults. What has Israel done lately to break that cycle - to demonstrate that it's the "adult" in the conflict, rather than simply another spiteful three-year-old?

I'm not interested in how Palestinian action justifies Israeli or vice versa; I really sincerely couldn't give a shit. I'm interested in which party is moving towards a solution versus which party is reinforcing and escalating a dumber-than-a-steamer-trunk-full-of-crowbars dysfunctional cycle. Judged by that metric Israel's certainly not looking any better than the Palestinians are.

In short - I don't want justifications. I want solutions.

My understanding was that it was not preventative, but there is an understanding that the IDF will shell the sites after the launches. Not arguing that it wasn't a stupid move by the IDF, given that missles can go astray, but I believe even the Human Rights military analyst that investigated the tragedy commented that the Israelis were trying to be careful not to hit civies when he met with the ship captain. Given that the IDF apologized for the deaths before taking the line that it wasn't their fault, it's clear that it wasn't their intent and they don't seek the deaths of civillians. Why is that even worth mentioning? Because the gunmen they are trying to stop do.
Clearly part of the Israeli strategy is to get the Palestinians to police themselves and realize that aggression doesn't pay. Killing families surely isn't the way to do this, and I'm inclined to think the IDF press corp has alerted the Generals to the detrimental effects of such behavior.

es keep Israel in U.N. human rights dock
30 Jun 2006 19:54:52 GMT
Source: Reuters
Printable view | Email this article | RSS [-] Text [+]

(Updates with U.S. ambassador, decision on special session)

By Stephanie Nebehay

GENEVA, June 30 (Reuters) - Arab and Muslim states on Friday won a decision to keep Israel in the United Nations dock for alleged abuses in the occupied territories, overcoming U.S.-led opposition to singling out the Jewish state.

A resolution to put the issue on the agenda of future sessions, brought by the Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC), easily won passage at the U.N. Human Rights Council.

The bloc also succeeded in mustering enough votes at the 47-member forum to hold a special session on the Palestinian territories, possibly next week.

But U.S. ambassador Warren Tichenor said a historic opportunity had been lost.

"Rather than address a number of urgent human rights situations around the world in a fair, equitable and balanced way, this new Human Rights Council has instead pursued an unbalanced agenda to single out and focus on Israel alone," Tichenor told reporters.

The U.S. delegation has observer status at the forum after choosing not to stand for election.

A second OIC resolution, expressing deep concern at an "increasing trend of defamation of religions" and incitement to religious hatred, was also adopted along similar voting lines.

DIVISIVE VOTES

The votes were divisive, diplomats and U.N. sources said.

Many states and activists had hoped all decisions would be taken by consensus to avoid the bitter acrimony that marked the council's predecessor body, the U.N. Commission on Human Rights, which debated Palestinian issues at each annual session.

The new forum can launch inquiries into abuses and refer emergency situations to its parent body, the U.N. General Assembly.

The vote to examine the situation in the Palestinian territories at future sessions passed with 29 countries in favour, 12 against, five abstentions and one delegation absent.

The resolution also called for existing U.N. human rights investigators to report on the situation in the territories at the council's next regular session, set for September.

Egypt, Iran, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Syria were among the resolution's sponsors. Western countries, including Britain, Canada, France, Germany, and Japan, voted against it.

In a speech before the vote, Israel's ambassador Itzhak Levanon rejected the OIC text on the territories as "imbalanced and intentionally one-sided".

The Australian
Middle East correspondent Martin Chulov
July 01, 2006

ISRAEL last night threatened to assassinate Palestinian Prime Minister Ismael Haniyeh if Hamas militants did not release a captured Israeli soldier unharmed.

The unprecedented warning was delivered to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in a letter as Israel debated a deal offered by Hamas to free Corporal Gilad Shalit.

It came as Israeli military officials readied a second invasion force for a huge offensive into Gaza.

Hamas's Gaza-based political leaders, including Mr Haniyeh, had already gone into hiding.

But last night's direct threat to kill Mr Haniyeh, a democratically elected head of state, sharply raised the stakes.

(...)

link

Jun. 29, 2006 12:04 | Updated Jul. 1, 2006 2:42
Critical Currents: Normative defense
By NAOMI CHAZAN [Recent columns]
[

Talkbacks for this article: 8

The tumultuous events of this week demonstrate that the policy of targeted assassinations in Gaza needs to be urgently reassessed. Besides contravening international law and proving tragically ineffective, it is also thoroughly immoral. If Israel wants to live up to its own standards, let alone safeguard its citizens, it must halt these attacks immediately.

Israeli bombardments from the air, sea and land during the past month killed several key Palestinian militants, as well as 23 Palestinian civilians (not counting seven members of the Ghalia family detonated on the Gaza beach several weeks ago). Seven were children, one a pregnant woman. In the first two weeks of June, 12 Palestinian bystanders - some sitting quietly in their homes, others engaged in their daily lives - became the victims of Israeli air raids.

No technical explanations can justify this outcome. No official expressions of sorrow can mitigate the subsequent outcry. Israel must stop killing Palestinian children, however inadvertently, as a way of protecting its own children. There will never be a moment's quiet when too many civilians - especially the very young and the very old - are being killed, maimed and traumatized.

FOR TOO long now there has been intense discussion over who is responsible for the death of particular Palestinian civilians, and totally insufficient debate on the validity of Israel's strategy as a whole. Innocent Palestinians were being killed long before the beach incident, and too many have died since. At issue is the policy itself. Continuing to employ tools that exact such a high human price is simply unacceptable; it cannot but boomerang.

For over a century, international conventions have safeguarded the rights of civilians in times of armed strife. Many treaties have been signed, regulations disseminated and understandings ironed out to protect non-combatants. Any breach of these steadfast rules is rightly considered a gross infringement of human rights and a deviation from binding norms. There can be no exceptions to this unwavering standard.

Rockets aimed at population concentrations within Israel undoubtedly violate this maxim. So, too, do bombs dropped on central thoroughfares in Gaza, the most densely populated area of the world. And, even if the former are intended to hit civilians and the latter are utilized to avoid exactly such an outcome, the results are all too often the same.

There can, therefore, be no compromise on these matters. Suicide bombs and indiscriminate rocket launches are wrong; they constitute crimes against humanity. Targeted attacks, however precise, against armed militants operating in the midst of densely inhabited neighborhoods are equally heinous. No political cause can justify their use. To do so would be to cynically conflate objectives with means, sacrificing one's own moral compass in the process.

Some have nevertheless bowed to the seemingly irresistible temptation of denigrating one's opponent as a way of rationalizing one's own conduct. Israelis and Palestinians seem to excel at this exercise. They repeatedly point to the large number of casualties as incontrovertible proof of the inhumanity of the other.

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Monster and Critics

this is the reason Sharon got the settlers out of Gaza....so they could do this. this is the missing info you need, canuck

"who would Jesus bomb?"

an important message!

When Will They Ever Learn?
by Rabbi Michael Lerner

When will they ever learn…that violence is not the path to security?

Today we write those words about Israel and Palestine, yesterday about the U.S. in Iraq, tomorrow about China in Tibet, and it goes on and on. And the only solution is to break the chain of pain and say, “No more—we will not respond to violence with violence. We will follow the teaching of the Torah that says ‘love the stranger’ and Jesus that says ‘turn the other cheek’ and we will stop this madness forever if we could really sustain the courage to do that.”

This is a tough moment to say this point—and yet it needs to be said to both sides. I start with Israel only because it is the greater military power, but I’ll get to a critique of the Palestinians too, so read this whole thing through. Tikkun’s progressive middle path for Middle East Peace rejects any attempt to say that one side is the pure bad and the other the pure good.

So, the details of the day. Israel is the military power occupying the West Bank and surrounding Gaza. By all international standards it has no right to do either, but if it does so it has an absolute obligation to treat the civilian population with certain respect and basic human rights. Israel continually fails to do this and has become one (not the worst, but one) of the world’s major human rights violators.

No wonder that people are asking their Jewish neighbors, “Do you really think that is morally acceptable to cut off electricity and water for a million and a half Gazans as a retribution for the killing of two Israeli soldiers and the kidnap of a third? Isn’t this the kind of ‘collective punishment’ that ruthless dictators have used against the civilian populations of countries that they controlled to the horror of the rest of the world? Don’t you realize that when you face acts of terror against Israeli civilians that it is because the Palestinians have no army, no airplanes, no tanks, so they fight with their improvised weapons as resistance forces have always done, and it makes no sense to call that “terror,” particularly when the targets are members of the armed forces on active duty. And don’t you think that the U.S. should be allowed to stand up for human rights there rather than be restrained by the fear that anyone criticizing Israel will be described as anti-Israel and their political futures put in danger by the AIPAC-related crowds that have been so effective in shaping the media and the public discourse in this country? And while we are at it, don’t you think that it’s really not great for the Jews to be identified with AIPAC and neo-cons and their spokespeople in Congress like Senator Lieberman who support the war in Iraq and who have become a major voice for trying to push the US into conflict with Iran?”

Those who care about the Jewish people, want to preserve it and protect it, want to see a safe and secure Israel and a safe and secure Jewish people all around the world, have to shout out now in very clear words: “Stop what you are doing, Israel, not just at the moment, but in the essence of your policies. Forget about taking over the part of the West Bank within the Wall built by the Israeli Right and their Labor party collaborators. Get out of the West Bank, and do it in a spirit of generosity, not of resentment and begrudging response to world pressure. Do it in a spirit that communicates that you recognize the humanity of the Palestinian people and recognize their suffering! Imagine, for example, how different the feelings would have been this week in the Arab world if, after killing a family on a Gaza beach through an IDF shelling, the President and Prime Minister of Israel had together gone to visit the family of the deceased to offer apologies and to share in the mourning of this loss, rather than trying to prove (unsuccessfully) that it wasn’t really Israel’s shell after all! Imagine how different things would be if today the Israeli government said, “We will find a way to create an international consortium to provide reparations for those Palestinians who have lost their homes in 1948-1967, and those whose homes were unfairly bulldozed to support the needs of the Israeli settlers on the West Bank! Imagine how different things would be if Israel could say, “We recognize that we have the greatest power in the area, that we face no credible threats from our neighbors, that our actions since 1948 have been ungenerous and sometimes outright immoral in the way we’ve treated not only Palestinians outside our state but also Arabs who have lived and paid taxes inside our state, and we want to stop all that, stop the escalation of weaponry and the arrogance of power, so we will take the first steps to show how generous the Jewish people can be when it follows its Torah’s command to “love the stranger” and then announces concrete acts of love and generosity! Nothing less than this will work.

That is the way to break the chain of pain. The only way. And that’s why eventually the path that Tikkun put forward years ago in our Resolution for Middle East Peace, and then in our support for the Geneva Accord, will be recognized as necessary components of peace. But we are not believers in power politics—in the final analysis what counts is transformations in consciousness and in the heart, and that is why the world so badly needs the New Bottom Line with its call to privileging love over power. Unrealistic, you say? No. What is unrealistic, in fact pure craziness, is for Israel to keep acting the way it has been acting for all these many years, imagining a different result from the same behavior.

So, does that mean that there’s one side that is good and the other evil? No, the world rarely works that way.

So, we have a message for the Palestinian people also: Violence doesn’t work and it is not working for you. You have every democratic right to elect a government that declares it does not recognize the very existence of the State of Israel, and that sees the fundamental crime not in expanding into the West Bank and Gaza in 1967 but rather in its coming into existence in the first place in 1948. Sure, you can do that. But if your government that you elect says it is in a war, then don’t be surprised to find that war getting carried to your doors, to your electricity and water supply, and to your children. If it’s war that you want, you’ll get it. But if it is peace, then there is only one way: totally, 100% renounce violence, renounce the articulators of that violence (whether they be in Hamas or in Fatah). Embrace the path of Martin Luther King, jr. and of Mahatma Gandhi and of the later Nelson Mandela, and physically restrain those people among you who will resort to violence or even to violent speech. If you want to win, you can’t do it by kidnapping, or sending missiles across the border, or throwing rocks. You must be disciplined soldiers of non-violence in your actions and words. You must not only unequivocally announce your support for the Right of Israel to exist, you must put forward your vision of a peace in which you live together with Israel in two sovereign states. And you must acknowledge that when it was Jews who were climbing out of the concentration camps and gaschambers and crematoria of Europe and desperately looking to return to their ancient homeland that it was your Palestinian leaders who, in alliance with British imperialism, tried to keep those refugees from settling in Palestine, thereby confirming to them the previous experiences they had in Arab countries where they were often treated as second class citizens. Acknowledge that when offered a two state solution in 1947 it was your own people who rejected it and denied that Jews could have any state of their own, while Muslims could have more than a dozen states in which their language, culture and religion was the official position of the society. Speak about that, teach it to your children, and enunciate it in Arabic for everyone to hear, and you will have some credibility in talking about the only thing that will make it possible for you to win: a strategy of open-hearted reconciliation with Israel and the Jewish people. So you must reject the anti-Israel lefties who give you the fantasy that you can keep on talking about the destruction of Israel, or embracing fanatics like the president of Iran, and then hope that Israel will be gentle and generous. It’s a fantasy. Your only power is moral credibility, and you build that by giving yourself to that vision of peace and non-violence and love of the enemy. Don’t listen to the people who tell you you have a right to struggle—because of course you have the right. The question is not whether you have the right, but whether it s SMÅRT to follow that path. Those who care about Palestinians will come to a different conclusion: that the smarter path, the path most likely to lead to an end of the Occupation and to peace and security for the Palestinian people, will come through developing the kind of compassion for the other, for the oppressor, combined with absolute commitment to non-violence that made Martin Luther King Jr. and Mandela so successful. Your misleaders have taken you on a self-destructive path, and a path that has led you to immoral actions against innocent civilians. Stop that path—it brings only more suffering and no liberation.

This is the message that our ancient prophets have been trying to communicate in various languages: that the only path that can work is the path of peace, social justice, love, compassion, kindness and generosity. And the path to peace is a path of peace.

When will they ever learn?

Rabbi Michael Lerner is editor of Tikkun and national chair of the Tikkun Community/ Network of Spiritual Progressives. Join us at www.spiritualprogressives.org. His most recent book is The Left Hand of God: Taking Back our Country from the Religious Right (HarperSanFrancisco, 2006). His most recent book on the Middle East is Healing Israel//Palestine (North Atlantic Books, 2003). RabbiLerner@tikkun.org.

To support this message, please Join The Tikkun Community or the Network of Spiritual Progressives at www.tikkun.org. We are the movement fighting for a New Bottom Line of love and kindness, caring and generosity. Not only in regard to Israel/Palestine, but also in our support for an immediate withdrawal of US troops from Iraq. You are hereby given permission to circulate this message widely. Please read our Core Vision and our book The Left Hand of God. NSP@tikkun.org

For Israeli peace voices, please read “Suffering from Paralysis of Thought” in Friday, June 30th Ha’aretz Prof. Zeev Sternhell of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem shows how the path of the Israeli government continues to be as we in Tikkun magazine described it 20 years ago: immoral and stupid. To confirm, read the lead editorial "The Government is Losing its Head " in Ha’aretz also.

"who would Jesus bomb?"

Israel rejects demands, talks on soldier faltering
01 Jul 2006 15:01:12 GMT
Source: Reuters

(Adds clash, Bush, Hamas comment on mediation)

By Nidal al-Mughrabi

GAZA, July 1 (Reuters) - Israel on Saturday rejected demands from Palestinian militants who abducted an Israeli soldier to free 1,000 prisoners from its jails as Egyptian-led mediation efforts to free the captive appeared to founder.

A Palestinian official said mediators had reported the soldier was alive and stable after being treated for wounds.

But talks aimed at securing Corporal Gilad Shalit's release appeared deadlocked, Palestinian officials said, raising the prospect Israeli leaders might give the green light for a threatened military incursion into northern Gaza.

Israeli troops and gunmen from the governing Hamas movement clashed inside southern Gaza in one of the worst exchanges of fire since the assault to free Shalit began, but there were no immediate reports of casualties.

"Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has reiterated that there will be no deals, that either Shalit will be released or we will act to bring about his release," said Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev, responding to the fresh demands.

Shalit's seizure in a raid across Gaza's frontier last Sunday sparked a crisis that has pushed Israeli-Palestinian ties to new lows and dashed any chance peace talks might be revived.

U.S. President George W. Bush said freeing Shalit was key to ending the crisis in Gaza and should be the initial goal, the White House said.

A statement from the militants did not specify that freeing the 1,000 "Palestinian, Arab and Muslim prisoners" and ending Israel's Gaza assault would be in exchange for Shalit's freedom.

But a spokesman for the Hamas armed wing, one of the three groups that captured Shalit, said that was what it meant.

The government of the Hamas Islamists, already straining under a U.S.-led economic embargo to get it to recognise Israel, has said it had no prior knowledge of the militants' raid.

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Israel says won't allow Gaza humanitarian crisis
02 Jul 2006 17:26:03 GMT
Source: Reuters

(Adds conversation with U.S. Secretary of State)

JERUSALEM, July 2 (Reuters) - Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said on Sunday there was "a little discomfort" in the Gaza Strip but Israel would not allow a humanitarian crisis to develop there, according to an Israeli official.

Israel launched a Gaza offensive after militants kidnapped an Israeli soldier a week ago. Gazans have been facing power cuts since an Israeli strike knocked out key transformers on Wednesday.

"I told the U.N. Secretary-General (Kofi Annan): 'True it's not comfortable for Palestinians to be without electricity,'" the official quoted Olmert as telling his cabinet.

"But nobody has died of a lack of electricity. There is a little discomfort, so what? We won't create a humanitarian crisis," he said.

Hospitals in Gaza were supplied with electricity by generators, he said.

"They tell us that people in Gaza are not comfortable, but nobody has died of an electrical blackout, but from Qassams they have," he said, in reference to a type of rocket fired by Palestinian militants from Gaza into Israel.

Israel on Sunday opened fuel pipelines which pump the gasoline Gazans are using to power their home generators. It also reopened the main commercial crossing into Gaza.

"The hospitals have electricity from generators, so don't tell us people are dying for lack of dialysis," Olmert said.

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told Olmert in a separate telephone conversation that she was worried about deteriorating humanitarian conditions in Gaza, according to a statement issued by his office.

Olmert told Rice that "there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza" and that Israel will "supply the needs of the population as necessary."

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L091844904.htm

Rejects ultimatum to free prisoners
Captive threatened with `consequences'
Jul. 4, 2006
MITCH POTTER, MIDDLE EAST BUREAU

GAZA CITY—A Palestinian ultimatum that could seal the fate of a captured Israeli soldier passed early today with no further word from militants holding 19-year-old Cpl. Gilad Shalit.

As the deadline approached, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert rejected Palestinian demands and vowed to continue the Israeli army's aggressive, pinpoint attacks throughout Gaza Strip.

The ultimatum gave Israel until 6 a.m. today (11 p.m. yesterday in Toronto) to end its operations in Gaza and agree to release 1,000 Palestinian prisoners or "pay the consequences."

Israel kept up its pressure on Hamas early today with air strikes, targeting a Hamas stronghold and hitting the student council building at the Islamic University in Gaza City, witnesses said.

Palestinian residents said several Israeli tanks and a bulldozer entered the northern Gaza town of Beit Hanoun after midnight and a Hamas militant was killed and four others wounded.

Israeli Justice Minister Haim Ramon echoed Olmert's hard line, warning that if Palestinian militants dare harm Shalit "the sky will come crashing down on them."

The comments come in the wake of an Internet posting from the three militant groups known to have captured Shalit nine days ago in a tunnel-borne raid on an isolated army outpost overlooking southern Gaza.

The message, attributed to the military wing of Hamas, the Popular Resistance Committees and the previously unknown Army of Islam, did not elaborate.

Calmer words came later from Ghazi Hamad, spokesman for the Hamas-led Palestinian Authority, who expressed hope a negotiated solution was still within reach.

Although Israeli forces have arrested and detained dozens of Hamas government officials in recent days, it remains doubtful whether the voice of the political echelon carries weight with the militant groups holding Shalit.

"Since the kidnapping of the Israeli soldier we have called for the need to protect his life and solve the problem through calm diplomatic channels," said Hamad. "We reiterate the necessity to resolve this problem with logic and wisdom and we think there remains a chance to reach an acceptable formula," he said.

The crisis presents a career-defining dilemma for Olmert, who built his fragile ruling coalition on the promise of ending Israel's military hold over much of the Palestinian West Bank. But with Israeli armoured infantry units now back in the coastal territory, the prospects for further pullouts appear to hinge on a successful outcome to the crisis.

Few Israeli commentators favour yielding to the lopsided Palestinian demands.

But many are asking more loudly whether the Israeli military objective in Gaza is mistakenly drifting beyond the primary mission of rescuing Shalit by also including the targeting of Hamas government leaders and a renewed offensive against the launchers of homemade Qassam rockets.

Noam Shalit, the Israeli captive's father, joined in that criticism yesterday, describing as "delusional" any attempt by Israel to embark on a broad offensive against Palestinian militants at the expense of his son.

"Israel should have done that before the attack, when there was intelligence information on tunnels being dug in the region," Shalit told Israel's Channel 10.

There are conflicting reports as to whether a Palestinian doctor or Egyptian mediators have been able to visit Shalit, who Israeli sources say was moderately wounded in the initial June 25 attack. His captors have provided no photos or video of him. Instead, they have limited their contact to just three statements, described as "military communiqués."

Shalit is believed to be held in one of the restive refugee camps of southern Gaza, which include the militant strongholds of Rafah and Khan Younis.

The area remains tense, crawling with masked gunmen who have been on a virtual war footing since last Tuesday night when Israeli armoured columns began massing for what army sources described as an unprecedented invasion of Gaza.

Those initial invasion plans, however, were suspended in the 11th hour and the army has since modified its approach, relying on Israeli war planes to bomb militant targets and civilian infrastructure but holding back from sending tanks into towns, cities and refugee camps, where a high casualty toll is a virtual certainty.

International reaction to the crisis has largely followed the pattern seen during the deadliest days of the recent "Second Intifada," with foreign leaders urging restraint.

Switzerland, the custodian of the Geneva Conventions, departed from the norm yesterday, accusing Israel of violating international law by using disproportionate force and collective punishment on the people of Gaza.

"There is no doubt that Israel has not taken the precautions required of it in international law to protect the civilian population and infrastructure," the Swiss Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

Toronto Star

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Dave, do you happen to know what the requirements under the terms of the Geneva Convention are to meet the definition of 'disproportionate force' and 'collective punishment'?