Apology Accepted


As far as I am concerned this is over. This is an honorable way to end this sorry affair. I really do feel for Ben. He made a mistake. He's young. Time will heal the wound. The apology from Ben is accepted. As I told Media Bistro: "We are all due one big mistake in life; it's how we handle that mistake that is the true measure of our character."

Let's move on to the more important story: why did the Washington Post bow to conservative pressure? Why did the Post feel the need to appease the Right? That's the key issue here, as this post shows: attack, attack and always attack. This is the real problem. You cannot appease these people. It's never enough.


Sean Paul Kelley March 24, 2006 - 11:56pm
( categories: Opinion )

MyDD's post was one of the creepiest thing I've ever seen a blogger write. He genuinely appears to believe that people who disagree with him should be utterly shut out of the media, "not-people" who will not be used as sources, given space, or have their opinions published.

With this post, he reveals himself as either a Leninist or a Fascist - and really, once we're in that realm you can flip a coin between them.

Meanwhile, Sean-Paul, let me offer you a small clue that will answer your question: the Post wants to have some level of balance among its columnists and bloggers because declaring war on at least half of your readership is pretty incredibly stupid for a media organization. If one aspires to be a major paper in a political town where most of the people put there by the voters are conservative... then gee, what a surprise, maybe they'd like some folks who can see things from that side of the fence on staff. Might help you, oh, I don't know - convey a better understanding of what the hell's going on.

Dialogue only works if both sides are there, and the Washington Post believe themselves to be in that business. It's pretty clear what business MyDD believes himself to be in. And I'm more than disappointed that you'd join him.

---
Joe Katzman
Winds of Change.NET
"Liberty. Discovery. Humanity. Victory"

Joe Katzman March 25, 2006 - 12:42am

within its rights to balance its coverage. But on one thing we have to agree to disagree. (You and I go way back and you know I value your opinion and trust your judgement.) Ben Domenech was there to balance Froomkin. Comparing Ben to Froomkin is like comparing oranges to whales. Froomkin is not a partisan democratic operative. Had the Post wanted to create balance for Froomkin they would have offered the blog to Thomas M. DeFrank or John Cole or you, someone who doesn't open their blog talking about shrieking denizens of the left who are unhinged, etc. That's my point, as I said in my first post about his first post. Guys like you and I look at the reality of the situation and more often than not agree on the solution or are willing to find some sort of compromise solution that doesn't compromise our principles.

This line, however, I find interesting: "declaring war on at least half of your readership is pretty incredibly stupid for a media organization," because progressives felt this is exactly what the Post did when Debbie Howell tried to link Abramoff to the Democrats, which is factually incorrect and then how Jim Brady treated Jane Hamsher in the online chat and finally by hiring Domenech to balance Froomkin.

We perceive that the Post declared war on us and you perceive the war (and the media in general) have declared war on you. What's the remedy? Because frankly I'm tired of the liberal media debate and want to solve the problems of our country. How do we do that? How do smart guys like you and I find common ground to move the country forward?

The price of apathy towards government is to be ruled by evil men.

~Plato

Sean Paul Kelley March 25, 2006 - 12:59am

how you square this position:

Dialogue only works if both sides are there, and the Washington Post believe themselves to be in that business. It's pretty clear what business MyDD believes himself to be in. And I'm more than disappointed that you'd join him.

with your previous words here:

As for having more dialogue with liberals... that's not really a smart goal. The real target of political dialogue is the uncommitted middle, as it always has been - and of course, that's exactly where Coulter's style is most damaging... I see a cultural counterattack as a useful initiative...


http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/006350.php#c10

If more dialogue with liberals isn't a smart goal, you're here to set us straight on... what exactly was it again?

What business is it that you believe yourself to be in?

Escher Sketch March 25, 2006 - 6:32am

His statement is an acknowledgement that what he did was wrong ... it's a contrite apology.

Let it rest and the vitriol will die down.

As for the Washington Post, they surely took this lesson seriously. The next person albeit Conservative or Liberal, they approve for hire will have their credentials carefully checked. I highly doubt they will repeat the same mistake. It damaged their credibility as a source of news by admitting they were looking for a Conservative blogger, rather than someone who was just highly proficient for the job. Hiring people on the basis of political affiliation is something owners like CanWest does. (They're a chain of newspapers in Canada...you may not be familiar with them)? The owners have fired editors and reporters that don't tow their line.

The right versus left thingy that appears in so many political discussions, especially in the blogsphere, lacks validity and relevance for most people who often value elements of both, but who probably are more comfortable on boards that embrace similar values. The exception to that are the extremists at both ends of the political spectrum who lack tolerance.

canuck March 25, 2006 - 12:50am

Dude, if that's your standard for "declaring war," then they declared war on us all a long time ago. That's called you disagree with one reporter's take/ story, deal with it and be done. Gonna happen.

No, what I'm referring to is the need for a poker hand of voices from various points on the political spectrum, one respectful and mindful of the composition of its audience so that key audiences do not see themselves being systematically shut out. WaPo was obviously getting feedback from its public (and considering where they are, no surprise), and decided to do something about it. Very smart move for a paper whose mainstay is political coverage. So it's something that went beyond Froomkin. Way beyond.

I'll add that your post didn't criticze the hiring of Ben per se either (though my colleague A.L. did on Winds, for precisely the reason you mentioned). S-P, you criticized the idea of hiring ANYONE who would "appease the Right." Let's not have moving of the goalposts here.

I suggest to you that this attitude was wrong when you wrote it, and still is.

As for the larger remedy you ask about, it's to close the journalism schools (f---n waste those are, completely wrong idea), take the stuff about diversity seriously, and make sure newsrooms and op-ed pages are stocked with a range of people from around the country, and with a range of political views and life experiences.

That wouldn't fix the media entirely, but it would be an important start. Way, way too many surveys from Pew and others quantify the fact that this is not happening now - and it's affecting public trust outside the bubble.

Note that all these suggestions aren't good in and of themselves (well, maybe closing the j-schools is), but a means to ensure that the media, within itself, is willing to confront, argue, and question to keep each other honest and make sure caricature of others' positions becomes a dangerous sport. The bit about the "Bush makes me puke" memo is a good example - it's not so much that one head honcho feels this way, as it is the fact that he felt safe saying it in email to multiple colleagues, knowing that they'd all agree. If the guy in question was Kerry instead, that kind of incident would still be worrying for the same reasons.

The alternative? Declare yourself an openly partisan outlet with a political party affiliation, be honest about that, and write off the rest of the audience openly and publicly. Like WWE Wrestling, it's easier to watch when they're honest about the show, and you no longer feel that your intelligence is being insulted by being transparently lied to.

---
Joe Katzman
Winds of Change.NET
"Liberty. Discovery. Humanity. Victory"

Joe Katzman March 25, 2006 - 2:24am

on permitting both sides of the debate. You'll notice you aren't banned for your POV.

Meanwhile, back at RedState...

You're welcome to judge for yourself. By: mcg
Google search for "Translucent and glowing, they ooze up..."

[ Parent ] (User Info) (#66)

Friend, look By: Thomas
Cut it out. You've made your point all over. My kill count is now at 26. Let's not bring it to 27 with you, ok?

If this is mastery, then I'm a donut. - Mike Krempasky
[ Parent ] (User Info) (#68)

Only to rebut By: mcg
the same fallacious claims made all over as well; i.e., that Ben has addressed all relevant allegations.

[ Parent ] (User Info) (#74)

You have got to be joking. By: mcg
It would be one thing to posit an innocent explanation; say, a common source.
But to suggest that the similarities between the third paragraph of Ben's piece and the first of Steve Cox's aren't suspicious? I just don't see how you can say that.

I really want there to be an innocent explanation. In fact, I went looking for an explanation: perhaps both of them pulled from a third source, say a press release or production notes from the movie itself.

[ Parent ] (User Info) (#77)

And there's the bell By: Thomas
Ding.

I counted three warnings By: Thomas
Which is two more than anyone else gets. I've banned for less stalking.
This stands.

Count the amount of top 10 progressive blogs that permit open commenting. Compare it to the number of top ten conservative blogs that do.

Then come back and lecture us some more on permitting both sides of the dialogue. Mote, meet plank.

One of the primary purposes of the press in a liberal democracy is to speak truth to power. The balance you are talking about is merely allowing yet another mouthpiece for conservative philosophy a platform in a climate where conservatives already rule three branches of government.

Go preach this to the conservatives who need to hear it, Joe. Frankly, it just sticks in my craw here.

Escher Sketch March 25, 2006 - 5:27am

It's quite another thing to apologize for multiple transgressions.

If Ben Domenech falls into the "young and foolish" category, what then should we think of all the Red Staters who are so eager to welcome him back? Is honesty just a pesky nuisance for these people?

Regardless, Ben Domenech's plagiarism reveals a flaw in his character, which, now revealed, he should examine with great care. Will he reach inward and find elusive wisdom, or shrink back and depend on angry rationalizations to comfort his striken ego?

Did the bad old liberals make you plagiarize P.J. O'Rourke, Ben?

Me, I would never do such a thing, because I keep in mind a saying my daddy made up: "To thine own self be true."

Thanks for that one, Dad!

"Death before being dishonored any more." - Col. Ted Westhusing

Jimbo92107 March 25, 2006 - 3:58am

Jimbo,

We should probably think that they're his friends, dude, who are willing to give a friend another chance and hope he learns something. I'd hope you'd do the same with yours. Just as I hope that Ben does some self-examination and finds wisdom.

My experience is that eventual wisdom and angry rationalizations aren't mutually exclusive, either. While some can avoid the anger/ rationalization stage entirely, for most folks the most realistic hope is that they don't stay there. We'll see.

I'll add that some anger here is justified, not rationalization (some, it seems, is rationalization). But threats of violence? Stuff about his family? That's just so very far over the line, and wrong. I'm not surprised the folks at Red State were angry about that. If someone had pulled that crap on you, I'd hope your friends would be angry too. Heck, I'd hope some of your *enemies* would be angry.

The justified anger doesn't cancel what Ben did. What he did, and the appalling responses he received, are two separate issues. Each deserving of condemnation.

But only one has, thus far, come with any penalty. Though a more karmic viewpoint might disagree, and note that such unbalanced hatred is often its own punishment.

---
Joe Katzman
Winds of Change.NET
"Liberty. Discovery. Humanity. Victory"

Joe Katzman March 25, 2006 - 5:13am

A truly honorable person feels not just shame, but horror and revulsion at the thought of breaking certain codes of conduct. Can you imagine punching a little girl in the nose? Physically I could not do it; it twists my stomach, I would rather punch myself in the nose just for thinking it.

That's how a writer should feel about plagiarism. The inhibition against such a reprehensible, antisocial act should prevent you from even contemplating it. Besides, in proper context to quote others should strengthen your argument--it says that others agree with you, sometimes famous people like P.J. O'Rourke. On the other hand, when you merely copy whole paragraphs from a lesser-known reviewer, as Ben did, then it saves you the trouble of actually seeing the movie.

Of Ben's "friends," I can only say what I have observed about this generation of conservatives: They are the most self-centered, self-congratulatory, irresponsible puffoons(TM) I have ever witnessed. These are the people who put magnetic "Support our Troops" stickers on their SUV's but would never dream of joining the military. For Ben to expect moral guidance from them is like a DUI seeking counsel from a bunch of meth addicts.

In other words, the prognosis is dubious.

"Death before being dishonored any more." - Col. Ted Westhusing

Jimbo92107 March 25, 2006 - 2:40pm

to see people actually commending this guy for apologizing and quoting the bible about forgiveness.

ben would have never apologized had he not gotten caught and he was essentially apologizing for getting caught.

the commenders and bible quoters are only so quick because they are of the same political persuasion. is this incorrect? otherwise, they would be reeming him with flagpole....

that is politics.

well, regardless of such partisan contortions, the very bottom line is you simply cant trust the guy...

flambeee March 25, 2006 - 7:23am

is that the world will never again take this guy's words at face value, and he knows it. If he wishes to resume his pose as a pundit, he knows that every word will be checked by people eager to discredit him and nail him again for stealing other people's words.

Tragically, plagiarism is just one of many abuses of language practiced by right wingers today. Their lies and deceptions are so numerous that we have become numb to those transgressions, which are far more damaging to society. Frankly, if plagiarism was all we had to worry about, I would gladly trade that for their otherwise being honest human beings.

Hell, it could be a whole new genre of discourse--the Plagiarist School. Go ahead and use the words of Shakespeare, Voltaire, O'Rourke and Nixon without attribution. At least then they'd have to actually read those people's writings and have some hazy understanding of them, just to use them in rhetorical context.

To mine own self I am not a crook, because I just tend my garden. Ick, now I want to shoot myself...

"Death before being dishonored any more." - Col. Ted Westhusing

Jimbo92107 March 25, 2006 - 3:03pm

Escher, dialogue with one's opponent is not a smart goal for someone engaged in an ideological debate. Doesn't matter what side you stand on. Convincing your opponent is not the focus.

Dialogue is a very smart goal, however, if you're the Washington Post. Whose main purpose is to serve as a quality stage for folks to engage in such debates, and for other acts as well. Because their readers sit on both sides, and in the uncommitted middle too, and respecting those readers is a good idea.

I think we can see why you aren't running the WaPo.

And this...

"One of the primary purposes of the press in a liberal democracy is to speak truth to power. The balance you are talking about is merely allowing yet another mouthpiece for conservative philosophy a platform in a climate where conservatives already rule three branches of government."

...is simply a reiteration of MyDD's Leninist/fascist approach, which states that the press belongs to your ideological movement by inherent right, people who don't think like you don't deserve a voice, and if the plebes (who voted for all those folks in those branches of government) don't like it then too bad.

There are lots of countries with systems like this, where you could no doubt be happy. I'd invite you to move to one, but on the whole it's better to have you seething in impotent rage here, as opposed to having you in a sympatico political system that might actually give you power over other human beings.

---
Joe Katzman
Winds of Change.NET
"Liberty. Discovery. Humanity. Victory"

Joe Katzman March 25, 2006 - 7:24am

Katzman, that wasn't very gentlemanly of you, now was it? You're being intellectually dishonest, or a fool. I can't decide which. And don't come back with some sanctimonious tone of rebuke, you forfeited that ground.

ES doesn't need me to defend.

Having seen your chops --labeling ("Leninist or a Fascist"), Vainglorious passive-aggressiveness ("let me offer you a small clue"), Use of faulty premise ("...Washington Post believe themselves to be in that business. It's pretty clear what business MyDD believes himself to be in."), erecting strawmen ("...it's to close the journalism schools"), contritely disingenuous advice ("take the stuff about diversity seriously, and make sure newsrooms and op-ed pages are stocked with a range of people from around the country"), self-aggrandizing snarkiness ("I think we can see why you aren't running the WaPo."), ad hominem attacks ("There are lots of countries with systems like this, where you could no doubt be happy."), and other such nonsense-- you've compromised yourself so as not to be taken seriously.

So much for your avowed, cherished standards. One can't reason with aggressive ignorance.

ww March 25, 2006 - 12:28pm

After all, on the heels of what must be a fairly stinging humiliation, to then engage in public fingerwagging - at a non-conservative site where discourse can't be controlled - and then to be bluntly and immediately called on the hypocrisy of being a partisan operative presuming to lecture on "evenhandedness in discourse"?

Ouch.

But it was illuminating to see you immediately pull out a virtual menu of information operative's tricks.

As a wise man once said, aspiring writers often learn more from reading mediocre novels than from reading good ones because the seams in a mediocre novel are visible, making the construction more apparent. Good novellists tuck the seams under too well.

First - attempt to make your own side's failure about your opponent's.

Second - pull an emotive label ("Leninist/fascist") out of the bag and slap it on, no matter how risible and unrelated:

...is simply a reiteration of MyDD's Leninist/fascist approach

Third - attempt to revise history:

...is simply a reiteration of MyDD's Leninist/fascist approach, which states that the press belongs to your ideological movement by inherent right, people who don't think like you don't deserve a voice,

Fourth - attempt to claim victimhood and persecution - while in the same sentence...

and if the plebes (who voted for all those folks in those branches of government)

... acknowledging that your movement controls three branches of government.

Fifth - when your arguments are effectively destroyed, tell your interlocutor that "if they don't like it, they can move (presumably to some repressive, regressive regime)":

There are lots of countries with systems like this, where you could no doubt be happy.

Come to the Agonist for honest discourse and you're welcome, and I say that in all honesty. Your views are welcome here - as a conservative, not as a partisan information operative. And I'll debate you in good faith, and you won't find me rigid or unwilling to listen.

You may even find that it begins to dawn on you that you are in fact part of the problem you decry. It's not about being a conservative or progressive, it's about being an honest interlocutor.

But come here with those tricks and expect to have your trousers yanked down around your ankles again.

Escher Sketch March 25, 2006 - 12:55pm

It's like these Agonistas got game, baby!

Sometimes it's like arguing with a Daddy-balloon, or a Priest-balloon, or a Flag-balloon, but behind the image it's always just a bag of hot air.

"Death before being dishonored any more." - Col. Ted Westhusing

Jimbo92107 March 25, 2006 - 3:18pm

What is it about this crowd? Lie after lie. It's like it has become the cultural norm for them.

cardinal March 25, 2006 - 9:14am

statement from the Washington Post, “"We still want someone who's provocative."

Newspapers that hire people based on anything other than their ability to report with emphasis on that skill based on: education, experience in the field and/or samples of their acquired writing skills, are pandering to populists or some other ‘unspecified’ ideology.

Could be all the Washington Post is interested in is controversy and they don't really give two hoots about the direction it comes from, either the right or the left is acceptable as long as it increases their circulation? Wonder if there is a way to put that in their hiring contract? 'Either raise the circulation by x%, in x amount of time, or tender your resignation/expect to be fired?' Why don't they just hire a marketer and end the pretense they have any other goal in mind except increasing their revenue?

canuck March 25, 2006 - 2:08pm

The crime is not getting caught. The crime is the crime.

In my case it was conservatives who "brought me down"--actually it was simply conservatives who caught me. I accepted responsibility for my actions and took immediate action to remedy the behavior. I did not lash out at Armchair General, Meryl Yourish, Dan Drezner and the gang in any way.

If you'll recall, I took YOUR advice on that. I didn't sulk in partisan rancor. And yes, they are his friends. But I would rather have friends like you who pointed me in the right directionmorally and ethically when I erred, than to have friends that defended me in my knee-jerk rage. This site would not have succeeded had I not taken your advice and that of others. That's the mark of true friendship.

You are certainly right about eventual wisdom and angry rationalizations. Lord know in my heart I was angry for a long, long time. But publicly, I took my lumps. Full stop.

And I am not telling Ben what he should do. I respect him enough to let him find his own path. And I know how he hurts. Oh, how he hurts.

But it's damn unfair to blame the nasty librul's for his failure. Period.

I didn't do it, neither should Ben.

The price of apathy towards government is to be ruled by evil men.

~Plato

Sean Paul Kelley March 25, 2006 - 2:23pm

any mainstream, big time A-List type blogger like MyDD says, "the press is ours (the Left) by inherent right."

Please Joe, toss out the Leninist/fascist rhetoric. It is unbecoming of someone as smart as you. No on who reads this blog is a Leninist or a fascist.

The price of apathy towards government is to be ruled by evil men.

~Plato

Sean Paul Kelley March 25, 2006 - 2:38pm

Thanks for outing yourself Joe. MyDD is Leninist/Fascist? Give me a break. In fact, while MyDD is an explicitly partisan site, they are one of the least ideological major sites on the Democratic side of the divide. They're much more interested in winning than in ideology, and such ideology as they have is neither Leninist or Fascist (MyDD isn't apologizing for violations of civil rights, for an Imperial presidency, nor is it calling for collectivization, etc...)

You just tried to come in here and tell us that black is white and white is black. That stuff may sell amongst your audience, since it's what they want to believe (we're good, libruls bad), but it doesn't sell elsewhere.

Ian Welsh March 25, 2006 - 4:29pm

They can only spell correctly 'Leninist' or 'Fascist', what is actually a good achievement in the USA, but they have no understanding what those things were. That's why they use the terms so lightly. Of course, the one who uses the terms lightly, commits an intellectual suicide. Pundit is not the word to be used referring to the person.

If we ask these people with too big words in their mouths, what were the differences between leninism and maoism or which branch of fascism do they mean, they can't answer.

-- Tontos y locos, nunca fueron pocos.

Gandalf March 25, 2006 - 5:18pm

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