An Antisemite is anyone the jews don't like.

I'm curious - I mean, I really want to know. How many of "the Jews" have to dislike someone before he becomes an anti-Semite? Is a supermajority needed or is it a straight up-and-down vote? Is there some sort of quorum necessary?

If my buddy David and I argue and I piss him off, am I an "anti-Semite for a day?" Does it come with a complimentary bacon-wrapped tiara?

Get a new light bulb over your head - that one's burned out.

This is a very interesting article that outlines just who are true Jews....those people of true Jewish heritage.

http://www.apfn.org/THEWINDS/library/khazars.html

When I hear anti-Jewish sentiment in my presence, I become Jewish, just like when I hear people say "nigger" in my presence I'm black or "drunken chug" I'm First Nations.

I could really seriously care less about the abstract legitimacy of that claim of identification. I don't blood type someone who says they're First Nations and I don't ask someone who tells me they're Jewish for their pedigree. If that's their self-identification, that's good enough for me. Certainly anyone targeted for hatred by it, is it as far as I'm concerned.

I was walking with a male friend in a district in my town known for great restaurants - and a large gay community. For the sake of clarity in the purpose of this story I should stipulate that we are not gay. This district was beginning to experience an uptick in occasional incidences of "fag bashing" from guys who drive in from the burbs to splash a little hate around. Sometimes they'd beat people up; occasionally they'd try to brain them with thrown bottles from a speeding car.

A car drove by fast and the passenger leaned out and screamed "Fucking FAGGOTS!" at the top of his lungs.

If I'd been struck by a bottle, the fact that neither I nor my friend are gay would hardly have been relevant; I was being targetted for hate under the impression I was a gay man, and I would have been injured as one. Believe me, it did not cross my mind to yell "Hey! Lay off! We aren't gay!"

The threat and horror of being targetted by hatred as a member of a group - even to the point of merely being mistaken for being a member of a group - has nothing whatsoever to do with issues of "who can legitimately claim to belong to that group". It's an unrelated topic. Frankly, if you are going to be so arrogant as to tell anyone "no, technically you don't really belong to that group you identify with", I wish you the joy of that meaningless exercise. I suppose someone better travel back in time and tell JFK he was not actually a Berliner either.

But for me - we're all Jews. We're all Palestinians. Bottles hurt us and bullets kill us and bombs blow us up and we all hate to see our babies in danger. When more of those people on the planet that perpetuate all this pettifogging horseshit finally figure that out, we'll be making some progress.

anti-semitism is a big problem in the US. The only context in which it seems to come up in my experience is when someone criticises Israel and they are condemned as anti-semetic as reflected by the results of this poll. From personal experience, and this may be unique from living in the NYC metro area, being a Christian with an ambiguous Germanic surname I know I have benefitted from people wrongly assuming I am a Jew.

the poll doesn't say a very "big" problem.

It says a very "real" problem.

There are people in the USA who are truly anti-semitic. There is real anti-semitism in the USA, but it is further below-ground than the anti-Mexican or anti-Black sentiments. For one thing, notice how the bible-thumpers keep saying, "Its those secular Jews in Hollywood who are ruining the country."

I agree with Escher:
"In my eyes it's all of 1) "a very real problem in America", 2) "a serious problem in Europe" and 3) "An [sic] Term Abused By Supporters of Israel"."

and that is 91% of Agonist people, who are generally liberal (I'd guess) heartful intelligent and despise war and despise racial intolerance.

What, are we 91% "anti-semitic" all of a sudden? Stop calling yourselves the "Chosen People", it is messing up your perspective. You are just goddam humans like the rest of us.

I mean, Jesus Christ in a Pork-Pie Hat!

bullshit compared to other polls in the past, it looks like this one has been skewed. I don't believe for one minute thate it represent the long term Agonist members thoughts.

2000 respondents who showed up to give one single answer? I'd be very curious as to where that influx came from. How does that look compared to respondents for previous polls on other topics?

- EOM

Johnnyyenagain - Is it prejudiced to hate the members of a group that say they want to kill you and your family and your neighbors, and who have killed and maimed people you care about?

Of course it is, by its very definition. That's simply self-evident viewed from either side of this equation.

It normally does invoke more pity for one's reasons for becoming a bigot, of course, much like when we find out that a convicted child abuser was themself savagely beaten as a child.

"Johnnyyenagain - Is it prejudiced to hate the members of a group that say they want to kill you and your family and your neighbors, and who have killed and maimed people you care about?"
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Oh, you know which is which? Or is that the lamest apologetic for arbitrarily killing infants, mothers, brothers, sons, fathers, daughters, and their fucking donkeys, that I have ever seen?

Members of the group? Are all Jews cheap non-tipping tightwads, then? Are all Jews Israelis, for that matter? Are all Americans Neocons? Are all Israelis Anti-Palestinian? You ask the question from a racist mind, then, mommyth, you make allowances for the "Group" you side with, who also can not be lumped together. Even Haaretz has allowed an article saying "whoa! we're wrong" - there is no consensus anywhere, everything is always decided by idiots with guns.

You, like Sara, have also doomed all of a people, including Olive growers, schoolteachers, advocates for Peace, the Palestinian Patriots and Freedom Fighters (what, none of them have a noble cause?), as well as the sociopathic terrorists, shoving them into one easily demonized group as if into a railroad car on the way to the Death Camp: they are all Dirty Sub-Human Arabs. just as Dershowitz does (from his beach chair on Martha's Vineyard, no doubt - he bathes naked on Lucy Vincent Beach, and trust me, you do not ever want to see that - oy vey, even).

It gets easier to visit a holocaust against a people when you deny them their humanity. "Never Forget" my red Irish ass; they forgot.

The news bite below (in quotes) begs another question: how come we will hang Saddam Hussein for that which he is actually on trial, and out of the other side of our idiot mouths endorse and support Israel for what amounts to the same thing? Tell me the difference between his political action and the POGROM being carried out by Israel at the moment, both in Lebanon and in the 50 year old Refuge Camps (that is plural)?

"Saddam last attended the proceedings on June 19 when chief prosecutor Jaafar al-Moussawi asked the court to impose the death penalty on the former ruler for his role in the deaths of Shiite Muslims in Dujail following a 1982 assassination attempt against him."

Murder is murder, mommyth, and racism is easy to recognise, define, in a question like yours. I might as well hate all blacks, then, because I know that there are plenty that would take me out if given the chance, just because I am white. I'll then add Arabs, because, you know, Atta and crew, and dont forget the Sioux, who would take back their country in a heartbeat if they had the artillary to do it. I would become instant scalpless fertilizer, and I could not blame them.

As a matter of fact, lets add everyone from the Red States, because there are people there who have been convinced that it would be an improvement to this country if Unamerican shitheads like me did not exist. And since I know that the IDF would come get me if I ever rose high enough above the crowd for them to see me, I might as well add Israelis. They killed that blond-headed girl, which is mathematically more murder of American(s) than Saddam every committed.

Clansmen are from the South, and I am exactly the kind of guy they are sworn to kill first availability. They are largely from the South: I hate all southerners then. Kill 'em! They are Americans! Holy Shit! ALL AMERICANS CAN THUS BE KILLED.

And if Saddam's acts are so disproportionate that we allowed ourselves to invade a sovereign nation simply to bring him to trial (find THAT in the Constitution!), but are defending Israel's right to kill Lebanese mothers......the question is gonna beg itself to death, isnt it.

I wish it would.

Edit - I had mommyth's name wrong, and have corrected it. It was an oversight, not a slur, sorry.

EditII - Freedom Of Expression - thanks SP/Jay for allowing public discourse to flow freely. It has gone missing on many boards, and it is refreshing and inclusive to find it alive and well here. America at its finest.

Anti-Semitism is most definitely not a hoax.

I have personally ripped down anti-Semitic posters in Germany with my own hands, and read with disgust bulk anti-Semitic hate-mail delivered to a friend from people who had obviously combed a database or phone book for Jewish-sounding names.

If you're asking "is racism all equivalent" - yes, in principle and in practice.

I don't think any Agonists I know believe ethnically-motivated atrocities committed against Jews are anything but the precise, exact equivalent of ethnically-motivated atrocities committed against Rwandans or Iraqis. If I ever see anyone espousing that dumb-shit "my suffering is greater than his because somehow I am more of a human" view, please be assured that I do not hold back.

Wow. A lot of people saying or implying "anti-Semitism is a hoax" here, which is just simply flat out false. I note that regular Agonists aren't espousing that view - just a surprising bunch of new posters, a larger influx than we usually see for even the most provocative threads. Which of course makes me immediately wonder where y'all suddenly sprang from on this one issue.

I suppose it could be a coincidence, if I believed in them.

Russia and have heard some here in the US too. It is real.

I get this friend comes back from Poland. He tells me about this amazing family he had dinner with, sweetest, nicest folks.

They serve a potato pancake to him. It's delicious. He says "this is like the potato latkes my wife makes."

The host rounds on him and hisses "are you saying my wife cooks Jew food?"

Yeah, just because we don't see it at our local grocery store for a while doesn't mean it went away.

I know it exists, I know it is real, I know that it is an ignorant racial hatred, and I know it is prolific in Europe, almost a religion in Eastern Europe. I get it, I see it, I know it, I weep at it. But it ISNT ANTI-SEMITISM, it is ANTI-JEWRY, and why wont you CALL IT THAT? (who ever "you" is).

And if you visit it on another race, how noble are you?

I need no convincing about racial hatred, I need no convincing about prolific anti-jewism, if it is an Ism (and that depends on what your definition of "Ism" is),I know the the Jewish Holocaust was real, just like I know the Chinese Holocaust was real, that the African Slavery Holocaust was real, that the Bosnian-Serbian Holocaust was real, that the Rwandan Holocaust was real...

But what Israel is doing is wrong, Schlemiel!

And the phrase "anti-semite" is somehow wrong too. For that matter, any Israeli who hates Palestinian Arabs is an anti-semite. Putz.

I think you mean to say "#4 is the one you'd choose".

It's a poll. It doesn't have a "correct answer", it gives you a chance to express your opinion.

Why do Democrats keep doing that? Are they trying to flank Republicans? Don't they realize it will not matter?

And he always makes me want to leave the DNC. If we dont have the Dems we are totally screwed, but Dean is way too hard to swallow.

Aaron, what will not matter?

in my view, his strategy in this instance may be flawed. The people that the Democrats are likely to pick up by being closer to Israel than the Republicans may be outnumbered by the people they will lose.

What do you think, from a pure cold-blooded political calculus do you think this statement from Dean will be useful to Democrats or not? How does it look to you?

I was appalled that he, out of everyone available, was given the DNC Chair. If it was not absolutely imperative to vote Democratic until balance is regained, I would leave the DNC instantly because of Dean.

The guy is a loose cannon, and if his outbursts are part of a strategy, like attacking Harris, comparing her with Stalin, a bit of an unnecessary redundancy and, therefore, showing little political acumen indeed, then I have no use for the Party that gives that sort of sophmoric yahooism their implicit endorsement.

The guy is a Chooch. People are turning off their brains simply to belong, and following this....this idiot cheerleader. I do not think that Dean is uplifting the party whatsoever, no matter how successful he is at appealing to the Homer Simpson in all of us.

Hey, when he was first in the public eye as a PRESIDENTIAL candidate I checked out his website. He was going to run against Kerry and then Bush/Cheney, and the number one topic listed on his Campaign web site was...health care.

Health Care. Of all the areas to tackle the problem at hand - getting Cheney out of office - his web site was touting a platform headed by the Health Care Issue.

Wha? I sent them an email suggesting they aim for "pertinence", and actually try to beat George Bush, rather than carry a banner that would not help them carry the country.

When he Yahhhhhhhed, I was relieved because I knew it cost him the race, thank the gods.

And then the idiots made him the Chair of the DNC. No wonder Hunter Thompson lost all hope, whatever his health situation was. I still think "what the fuck are they THINKING?"

He is closer to Nader than Clinton or Gore, and Nader will never be a winner (I still have a hearty up-yours for Nader, too. Talk about a lack of political acumen, of not knowing which fight to pick, and when). Dean will not win a single Republican over, and that is the actual game at hand, not cheerleading the choir. If they come over it will be because of the unacceptable inherent dishonesty of the hijacked Republican activities and agenda that they find too disgusting a pill to swallow, and not because Temper Tantrum Boy is egging them on by calling the Iraqi PM a Jew-Hater.

My god I can not stand that idiot. He is supposed to be the lead campaign manager for the DNC, the adminstrator of a stolid strategy, not a Ranting Lunatic Speechmaker.

If you are hurting the party you are trying to help, you are hurting the party. Just ask the Republicans.

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Agonist discussions rule.