What's Up With God?

There’s a social theory which claims that in recessions all hell breaks loose – meaning social disorder spreads and previous sectors of stability and growth lose traction. Political partisanship, ethnic divisions, criminal enterprise, and religious strife can be exacerbated in a recession, and since we are in a doozey of a recession we should expect all manner of rancor and discord. It’s always hard to prove theories like this, and so you fall back on anecdotal evidence, which lately hasn’t been hard to find. When it comes to religion in particular, the evidence is mounting: God no longer works in mysterious ways, because He seems to have stopped working altogether. He’s abandoning his sheep, and especially some well-placed shepherds, who have lost their ability to navigate the world. Let’s look at some case studies.

Shoah enough! Pope Benedict sets back Jewish-Catholic relations 25 years

The Catholic church, and especially the Roman curia of cardinals and bishops who manage the church’s day to day affairs, suffered an unexpected breakdown this week with the botched refrocking of an anti-Semitic bishop. Benedict XVI says he was just trying to heal a schism in what he must have viewed as an internal church matter. A group called the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X, which was formed by a Swiss prelate Archbishop Lefebvre in opposition to Vatican II reforms, had been ejected from the church years ago by Pope John Paul II when Archbishop Lefebvre ordained four bishops against Rome’s orders. The Archbishop and all four of the bishops had been excommunicated, and this past week Benedict XVI annulled the excommunication, though without formally reinstating the four as bishops (Lefebvre had died several years ago and was therefore not part of this “deal”).

Unbeknownst to the Roman curia, on the day Benedict’s actions were announced, one of the bishops, Richard Williamson, was giving an extraordinary interview on Swedish television. He claimed the Holocaust was a fiction, that at most 300,000 Jews died at the hands of the Nazis, and not one of them in a gas chamber. These sort of beliefs have an unofficial name of Holocaust Denial, and they always evoke opprobrium and disgust when voiced. In Germany they are illegal and punishable under the civil code, and of course Benedict XVI is a German pope who is well aware of the danger of such sentiments.

What went wrong here? On the surface, it looks like a slip-up in the curia. Someone didn’t know this interview was about to air at the very worst time for the Vatican. Certainly somebody’s head will roll, or whatever it is that happens to a cardinal who mismanages an official pronouncement on this scale. But this surface picture isn’t the real story.

The real political tone-deafness, and the source of problems for the Vatican, is Benedict himself. He apparently spoke to only a few trusted cardinals about this proposed action, and there were plenty of princes of the church who could have warned him off this action had they known about it in advance. Of course, the difference between could and would in the Catholic church is a mile deep; the papacy has become so powerful that no major prelate has criticized this or the previous pope publicly. But if their advice had only been offered in private, it surely would have reminded the pope that Archbishop Williamson has a long history of anti-Semitic statements. He believes in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, he asserts that Jews want to dominate the world, he subscribes to conspiracy theories regarding the assassination of John F. Kennedy, and claims that the Vatican is under the influence of Satan. Moreover, the entire order of St. Pius X is rife with anti-Semitism.

The pope knew all this because he was a defender of the St. Pius X sect for years under Pope John Paul II, trying insistently to have them brought back into the faith. He somehow sees their 150,000 members (probably an exaggerated number) as an important bloc of Catholics that could challenge the Vatican if left outside the fold. It must have seemed to him that a potential, if remote, challenge to the prerogatives and power of the papacy could not be tolerated, even if it meant doing a little damage to Jewish-Catholic relations.

He probably did not count on how severe the damage would be. Besides the public uproar in the press, several Jewish organizations that had been working on ecumenical dialogue with the Catholic church cancelled these efforts. Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany criticized the pope precisely on the grounds that such language as Benedict has now countenanced from Richard Williamson is criminal in Germany.

This whole episode has wounded the pope to some degree. However adept he may have been in maneuvering through the Vatican hierarchy to get to the papacy, he has proven to be inept at managing it as pope. He has none of his predecessor’s skill at global politics or image management. He is governing a church that has become the religious equivalent of the Republican Party, an organization whose policies and moral positions are in conflict with its own actions, an organization which embraces hypocrisy without seemingly recognizing when it is doing so, and an organization whose base is shrinking into a set of highly conservative true believers who offer nothing appealing to outsiders. It’s as if the Vicar of Christ and St. Peter’s Successor has lost the confidence of Christ Himself, and no longer can claim to represent St. Peter either.

I’m heterosexual really (I just have issues)

God does seem to enjoy tormenting certain clergyman with doubts about their own sexuality, in exact proportion to their conservatism and belief that the Bible is to be taken literally and in all cases as the true word of God. The most recent poster boy for such confusion is Rev. Ted Haggard, the evangelical preacher who was caught buying some crystal meth from a male prostitute, and enjoying his personal company as well. Since his career had been made in part on demonizing homosexuality, this discovery cost him his job.

The proper thing to do in cases like this is to disappear into the woodwork, but Ted Haggard seems to have an insatiable love for the limelight and was back in the news this week. Part of this was his own doing: he has a book coming out and a documentary on his travails (filmed by of all people the daughter of Nancy Pelosi). The other part of this media interest came from a former deacon of Rev. Ted’s church, who opened up publicly about his sexual relationship with details too graphic even for cable TV.

Rev. Ted was on Larry King and other talk shows doing what all media publicists insist is the only thing to do if you have a scandal and something to sell to the public: admit your mistake (or sins in this case), apologize, and beg forgiveness. Apparently the American public are suckers for this type of self-flagellation. As part of this admission of guilt, Ted Haggard described himself as a heterosexual “with issues.”

But what if these type of scandals erupt over a religious figure who has already joined the Heavenly Choir? That person is, unfortunately, out of luck. Take the situation with Father Maciel Degollado, the founder of the Legionnaires of Christ, another one of these conservative Catholic religious orders, this one dating back to the 1940s. About ten years ago allegations from at least nine credible male witnesses arose that Fr. Maciel had abused them when they were children. John Paul II refused to do anything to Fr. Maciel, but as the evidence mounted, Benedict XVI put Maciel under a sort of house arrest, and the man died early last year. The Vatican has never formally acknowledged any wrongdoing by Maciel, and has not intervened to settle with his accusers.

This week more allegations appeared, this time asserting that Fr. Maciel would spend hours alone with women, and that he fathered a child by one of them. A spokesman for the order did not deny these claims, and said they “were recently informed, with compassion, of inappropriate behavior on Maciel's part”. Isn’t it wonderful, by the way, how religious organizations go all compassionate when one of their own is found to engage in immoral or illegal behavior (according to their own standards). The Legionnaires say that their founder engaged in “inappropriate behavior”, as if he were caught jaywalking.

Because there is no getting around these facts, the best the church can offer up is that Fr. Maciel is now at the mercy of God. There is no comment about what sort of mercy, if any, his victims and paramours are receiving. Already on the Legionnaires website members are writing in denying that these stories are true, and comparing Fr. Maciel’s “persecution” to that of Christ Himself. Not everybody in the Legionnaires is buying this argument, and nobody outside the organization is willing to defend this man anymore.

It does appear his earthly reputation is permanently trashed. But there is a glimmer of good news for the Rev. Maciel. No longer will the man be thought of as a pedophile, preying on altar boys and seminarians. The terrible stigma of being a homosexual no longer applies to Father Maciel. Instead, he has been elevated to the much better position of a heterosexual, with issues . He joins Ted Haggard as a religious leader who is “normal” – a bit narcissistic maybe, as one supporter who knew Fr. Maciel put it – but not guilty of that terrible sin of homosexuality. What a relief.

Apparently God will go on plaguing certain of his clergy with sexual doubts, and many will fail to live up to biblical standards. The lucky ones, though, will get away with only having “issues”.

Maybe if we named it the Crystal Meth Cathedral

When recession meets up with religion, religion doesn’t always win. Our final case study centers on the travails of the Rev. Robert Schuler’s televangelism empire, featuring the popular Hour of Power program, broadcast from the Crystal Cathedral, an inspiring edifice in Orange County, California. This ministry is one of the earliest examples of a megachurch that used television to expand its audience and its revenues. It seems, however, to have expanded too much, rather like its parishioners and just about every business and government in America. The Rev. Schuler has too much debt.

The church is trying to sell $65 million of property to pay down some of its debt. It claims that revenues last year fell by $5 million, which it blames on the recession. Rev. Schuler has written to a group called the Eagle Club, consisting of its largest donors, and begged for money so that the Hour of Power can remain on the air. Whether this threat is serious or even works remains to be seen, but at least Rev. Schuler has more class than Oral Roberts, who threatened to be “taken home” by his Heavenly Father if viewers did not pony up enough money to get his Oklahoma ministry out of hock.

As George Carlin said, God loves us, but He always needs money. In a recession, He gets desperate. Complicating His needs at the Crystal Cathedral is a schism between Rev. Schuler and his son, Rev. Robert Schuler Jr. It seems often to be the case with these televangelism empires that God has ordained they be passed on to the family, like a business. Oral Roberts, Pat Robertson, Robert Schuler, Sun Myung-Moon, and many others have groomed their sons to take over the pulpit, the television broadcasts, the international missions, the gift shop, the day care center, the armaments business (in the case of Rev. Moon), etc. etc.

The schism has not been described as centering on religious differences, so it is probably related to Junior’s inability to manage the empire properly (and where have we seen this problem before?). Religion is certainly not exempt from the epidemic of nepotism that befouls American society, and recession reveals the downside to monarchical and hereditary succession. In the U.S., nepotism is often about “branding”, passing along to the next generation the power of a famous name. To really get ahead in Hollywood it certainly helps to have a famous actor as a parent, just as around 25% of the U.S. Congress comes from parents or relatives who have served in high office. Televangelism is forced into this mold because it is not just selling religion, it is selling a personal brand.

This seems to be a big problem for Rev. Schuler. Once his son was booted off the television, various pastors from other megachurches have been invited to deliver the sermons. However good they are at the peculiar talent that is religious preaching in America, audiences are not buying it. Viewers are writing in to say they will not contribute any more money because they want to see a Schuler in the pulpit, not some stranger. One person asked the most pertinent question: "Why can't a father and son work together for the glory of God? That's my big question."

Why indeed. There are thousands of megachurches that have been built this decade all across the U.S. They are like gigantic shopping malls, financed with debt and the expectation that 5,000 to 15,000 parishioners would attend every week and donate generously. In this recession, that is not happening. True believers can still tithe, but 10% of a falling salary means trouble for the church. Some of these televangelism stars like Pat Robertson, who is a multi-millionaire, may even be forced to give up their private airplanes. Shades of Citigroup. Along with all the other troubles brought about in this recession, we will see the failure of hundreds of megachurches.

It is so serious that God has temporarily eschewed Glory. He has more urgent needs. He needs money, and He needs it now.

God needs Us to fix the Global Financial Crisis

One of the things all of these religious leaders have in common is that they have a direct line of communication to God. Televangelists are fond of reminding their audience that God told them to do certain things, like buying a new studio that requires the audience to give more money. Even the Catholic megastars who supposedly owe obedience to the pope – like Mother Teresa, Fr. Maciel, or Padre Pio – get around this by taking on saintly qualities, which puts them above the pope and directly in touch with Jesus.

Judging by what these religious figures are saying, God is preoccupied with earthly concerns that, of all things, are tied to the Global Financial Crisis and recession. This preoccupation prevents Him from providing the answers and comfort his stewards need when it comes to problems like recognizing the reality of the Holocaust, or dealing with a pastor’s sexual confusion, or ensuring that a ministry does not lack for the necessary funds.

That’s why it is so important that Barack Obama, Ben Bernanke, Timothy Geither, and others solve this economic crisis as soon as possible. We all need God back on the job, and this recession is preventing Him from doing His best. That’s why we shouldn’t flinch from a trillion here or a trillion there. Our government is doing the Lord’s work. This is a Spiritual Bailout of cosmic dimensions.

Numerian February 6, 2009 - 7:14am

Numerian's diary | printer friendly version |

( categories: Miscellany | Agonist Exclusives | Faith and Spirituality | Opinion | Russian Federation )

very enjoyable read

Seeing as there seem to be many parallels, here's the wiki on Padre Pio,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padre_Pio

I expect we'll see the rise of some new messiah or preacher, but maybe Obama is the one to fill the bill for the time being.

dk February 6, 2009 - 5:12am

health, of god, & of the universe

imo, the universe, like earth, can be considered to be in varying states of health (however you want to define that). we affect it, it affects us -this is no separation. cannot god be not far behind? heaven forbid she ever sneeze.

social disorder... with the military's lowered requirements threshold, gangbangers get in, get serious training, and once out, take that back home with 'em. lovely.

Zuma February 6, 2009 - 5:31am

unfortunately religion and politics is not going away

At last, Blair is free to 'do God' – and America loves it

By Leonard Doyle in Washington

Friday, 6 February 2009

Tony Blair gave an extraordinary speech about the global importance of religion yesterday, telling an audience which included the newly-inaugurated President, Barack Obama, that faith should be restored "to its rightful place, as the guide to our world and its future."

The former prime minister also said he believed the 21st century would be "poorer in spirit" and "meaner in ambition" if it was not "under the guardianship of faith in God." He had been invited by President Obama to lead the prestigious US National Prayer Breakfast, a spectacular event in the ballroom of the Washington Hilton Hotel.

Mr Blair also managed to rain on Gordon Brown's parade, meeting the President before any European leader. He dashed ahead of the Prime Minister and other political heavyweights, including Angela Merkel, Nicolas Sarkozy and Vladimir Putin, to lay on the hands and tell the President: "It is fitting at this extraordinary moment in your country's history that we hear that call to action; and we pray that in acting we do God's work and follow God's will."

During Mr Blair's 10 years as prime minister, his chief spin doctor Alastair Campbell famously answered any religious questions from journalists with the retort: "We don't do God." But free from the shackles of leadership, Mr Blair embraced his faith and even ended his speech with "God bless you all."

He didn't just get the bragging rights of being first in line – Mr Brown will only meet the President when he travels to London in early April – he got an opportunity to lobby for his own role in a big US push for Middle East peace.

Mr Blair also delivered a homily about faith and religion, even telling the assembled political leaders of his first spiritual awakening, when he was 10 years old. "That day, my father – at the young age of 40 – had suffered a serious stroke," he told the audience. "His life hung in the balance." He described being sent to school where his teacher knelt and prayed with him.

"Now my father was a militant atheist," Mr Blair said. "Before we prayed, I thought I should confess this. 'I'm afraid my father doesn't believe in God,' I said. 'That doesn't matter,' my teacher replied. 'God believes in him. He loves him without demanding or needing love in return.'"

Mr Blair's homily went down like milk and honey. Americans proudly wear their faith on their sleeves and Washington is a city where politicians and policy-makers are often found at early morning prayer meetings. And Mr Blair may be on to a good thing with Mr Obama, who has embraced the religious community more than any recent Democratic leader. The one Bush programme he is holding on to is his "faith-based" initiative now renamed as "faith and neighborhood partnerships.'

At yesterday's breakfast, the former prime minister, who championed a war in Iraq that many religious leaders condemned as immoral, proclaimed himself a supporter of Mr Obama. "It is an honour to be here, a particular honour to be with you Mr President." Mr Blair said. "The world participated in the celebration of your election. Now the hard work begins. And now, also we should be as steadfast for you in the hard work as in the celebration."

While Mr Blair was plotting strategy for invading Iraq, Mr Obama, then a political unknown, went out on a limb to condemn plans for the war. He famously declared that he was not opposed to war but opposed to "dumb wars" and won the election largely on a promise of bringing the troops home from Iraq.

In his first few days as President, he banned torture and ordered the closure of Guantanamo within a year.

Yesterday Mr Obama listened politely while one of the biggest supporters of the war declared: "You don't need cheerleaders but partners; not spectators but supporters. The truest friends are those still around when the going is toughest. We offer you our friendship today. We will work with you to make your presidency one that shapes our destiny to the credit of America and of the world. Mr President, we salute you and wish you well.'

Mr Blair who received a Presidential Medal of Freedom from Mr Bush just before he left office, did not get an opportunity for a private chat with President Obama yesterday.

_{"Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined." -Henry David Thoreau}

Tina February 6, 2009 - 5:41am

Ugh. He's really into Catholic hypocrisy

Blow up thousands of Iraqis and not a few British soldiers, while all the time prattling on about God's love for us all and our need to have faith "guide our world and its future." What a strange, needy man Tony Blair has turned out to be, clinging now to Obama's reflection just the way he slavered over Clinton and Bush.

I guess I have to place Tony Blair in my list of contemporary narcissistic political leaders. He can join Bill Clinton, George Bush, Sarah Palin, and Joe Ratzinger. I am sure there are quite a few others. What is it about this age that self-obsessed, psychologically inadequate politicians rise to the top? Was it a 90s thing?

Numerian February 6, 2009 - 6:17am

deserve

Societies just get the politicians that they deserve, at least in democracies. No one in your list is using force on their constituents (flocks?), no one is rigging the vote--at least not in an unbelievable way. All is in the power of persuasion, nothing new here. Religion is just among the oldest tools in the box.

Speaking of god, I see a lot of criticisms of Obama on the Agonist these days. I have to say that the thing that worries me the most about the guy is not whom he picked or what he did up to now.
What I think is a very serious warning is the deliberate construction of a cult of personality, based on symbolism and religion.
Who swears on Lincoln's bible?

"Narcissistic political leaders" are the mirror of who we are.

kschl February 6, 2009 - 6:52am

Into the frying pan, in other words?

Are we moving from a generation of self-centered and often incompetent leaders, to a messianic figure who can manipulate crowds? If Obama is that sort of leader, he is the only one. I don't see any others like him on the horizon. Putin, Merkel, Brown, Harper?

Numerian February 6, 2009 - 7:04am

Obama gathers Athiests to his flock er cult ;)

Atheists welcome in Obama's big church
AFP
Published: Friday February 6, 2009

America's perennial culture wars are being fought on a new front as President Barack Obama reaches out to adherents of all religious faiths -- and to atheists too.

Unlike any president of modern times, the Democrat has singled out non-believers as an important part of the nation's demographic mix. Secularists are impressed, the Christian right less so.

"We are pleased that he recognizes that we exist," said Ron Millar, acting director of the Secular Coalition for America.

"So we do see this as an important first step," he said.

"But there's a lot of work to do to reclaim our secular character, after the amount of influence the religious right has had over the last eight years."

Obama on Thursday announced a new White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships, overhauling the former Bush administration's deeply contentious initiatives to bring religious groups into social policy.

Obama, a Christian who has long called for progressive liberals to shed their mistrust of religion, appealed to all worshippers to band together and assist society's most vulnerable at a time of acute economic crisis.

But he also highlighted those who subscribe to no faith at all, as he did in his inaugural address two weeks ago, ironically delivering that message at the annual National Prayer Breakfast.

"The goal of this office will not be to favor one religious group over another -- or even religious groups over secular groups," the president said in a speech.

"It will simply be to work on behalf of those organizations that want to work on behalf of our communities, and to do so without blurring the line that our founders wisely drew between church and state."

Millar said the new White House faith office was inherently unconstitutional, arguing it would channel federal funds to religious groups that discriminate against non-believers in hiring new workers.

But he said he was pleased to have a seat at the table, after his group joined a coalition of civil rights organizations in meeting Obama transition officials three times leading up to the president's January 20 inauguration.

In response to news of those meetings, the Anglican group In God We Trust said Thursday it was launching a one-million-dollar campaign to oppose Obama's attempts to "whitewash America's religious heritage."

"I doubt that any newly elected president has ever sat down with lobbyists for the American atheist movement to plot legislative strategy," the group's chairman Bishop Council Nedd said in a statement.

"Clearly the administration is planning to push the radical left's vision of a completely secular United States down the throats of ordinary Americans."

_{"Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined." -Henry David Thoreau}

Tina February 6, 2009 - 7:11am

I just love it

The Anglicans are launching a million dollar campaign to thwart Obama's attempt to "whitewash America's religious heritage."

Just how much of America's religious heritage do the Anglicans want to celebrate? How about if we go back to the time when all colonists were forced by the Crown to pay a tithe to the Anglican Church? This, more than anything, angered the Founding Fathers so much that they voted against a state religion.

Okay, I'm going to be a bit snarky here. I've always supported prayer in our schools on principle, just as long as the Holy Father in Rome gets to decide what prayers are uttered. I don't want my children having to recite Anglican or Baptist prayers.

You do see the problem here? Bush's faith based initiatives were overwhelmingly channeled to Baptist, fundamentalist, evangelical, Pentecostal and conservative Catholic congregations. The Unitarians weren't exactly welcome, nor for that matter the Episcopalians or even the Anglicans, because they weren't quite doctrinally pure on theological matters like abortion or homosexuality.

What I'd really like to see is Obama abolishing the whole faith based initiative, but as an alternative, his doctrine of doling out the money also to non-believers (who are a pretty big voting bloc) is a real poke in the eye to the Christianists. So good on him. We are entering an economic time where government will have to exploit as many avenues as possible to get food, shelter, and medical aid to the desperate. If a faith-based initiative is going to be a vehicle for this purpose, let us temper it with those who have a secular faith. Even Jefferson would probably have accepted that solution.

Numerian February 6, 2009 - 7:33am

did you miss this interpretation?

Obama Creates Faith-Based OfficeBy PHILIP ELLIOTT, AP
posted: 14 HOURS 49 MINUTES AGO(Feb. 5) - Declaring that "there is a force for good greater than government," President Barack Obama on Thursday established a White House office of faith-based initiatives with a broader mission than the one overseen by his Republican predecessor.

same as Tina's article, just a different spin

dk February 6, 2009 - 7:41am

Smart move. Instead of removing it altogether...

Which would have irated a bunch of Fundies, he just changed the mission so that the BS religious part will become irrelevant soon. I mean "faith-based" does not imply religion. One can have faith in humankind. Brilliant.

creativelcro February 6, 2009 - 11:12am

LOL - exactly what I was thinking!

Keep it. Just start slowly shifting it into being a general public relief fund and then in a few years change the name; maybe the Office of Community Initiatives.

"The best-informed man is not necessarily the wisest. Indeed there is a danger that precisely in the multiplicity of his knowledge he will lose sight of what is essential."

- Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Escher Sketch February 6, 2009 - 10:01pm

Jumping in where angels fear to tread.

From where i sit God is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow. Human activity at political, cultural, business, international, moral, personal and any other level does not change god.

I think it was tolstoy who wrote about the golden rule that is at the core of all religions.

Leaders, office bearers even the lowly can all fail in their application of the rule.

When anyone loses sight of the importance of comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable, there is a breakdown in humanity.

God's not dead, just some of his followers have got lost in putrefaction!

graham February 6, 2009 - 7:37am

Didn't you know? God's playing...

...Roller Ball on the boardwalk in Atlantic City.

Celsius 233 February 6, 2009 - 7:39am

He also supported the Arizona Cardinals

He was behind every one of their victories this year, at least according to their quarterback. Why he abandoned them at the Super Bowl is anyone's guess, because the quarterback suddenly went very silent about God after the game was over.

Numerian February 6, 2009 - 7:51am

Yep, the ones who shout loudest that god is on their side

are often the ones who wish that god was on their side.

graham February 6, 2009 - 8:16am

Graham you should lend your monkey avatar to Sean Paul

eom:)

Numerian February 6, 2009 - 8:21am

yes and also

inspiring people to bring joy to people in Sudan

opening Sean Pauls eyes to monkey business

getting kids in Lakewood to help an orphanage in Haiti

inspiring Australians to assist the work of Fr Frank Jones in San Francisco in Ecuador.

Then theres aids orphanages and fistual hospitals in Africa, widowed women in East Timor, outreach to the homeless in the major cities of the world. So much good work everyday that never gets seen by the well fed, tv addicts of the western world.

so much good work that does not get much press

graham February 6, 2009 - 8:02am

Don't forget Catholic Charities and the Salvation Army

There is indeed a tremendous amount of good work done by religion and the religious. The evangelical ministries are often found in places with desperate need but unsafe conditions, so help rarely arrives other than what they provide.

The age old question is whether Christianity should follow Christ the healer and comforter, or Christ the militant. I'm afraid we've gone through a decade or two where Christians feel they have to be warriors for Christ. Maybe the pendulum is now swinging the other way.

Numerian February 6, 2009 - 8:09am

true, but I think the militants shout loudly whereas those

who comfort the afflicted are possibly the unknown majority.

graham February 6, 2009 - 8:17am

Megachuches

Look more like Mammon than God.
And they need a Mammoth cram down. (Bad pun intended).

Holy Bankruptcy.

Synoia February 6, 2009 - 11:33am

Ideology vs spirituality

The presumption of religious ideologies is the same: "We've got the ocean in our bucket."

That which unites all religions and wisdom traditions at their mystical core is the spirituality that leads to self-actualization as unfolding full human potential.

Confusing these leads to all kinds of nonsense.* This would all be funny if it weren't so pathetic.

Oh, and yes, you can be an "atheist" and still be spiritual in this sense. In fact, in my observation, there are a lot more spiritual atheists than spiritual ideologues because spirituality has to do with acting on universal values instead of narrow self-interest or ideological norms.

* Meher Baba: "People's ideas about God and spirituality are so farfetched, fantastic, and funny."
in Silent Teachings of Meher Baba
Compiled by N. Anzar
NJ: Beloved Archives, 2000, p. 156

tjfxh February 6, 2009 - 11:52am

Thank you, tjfxh

you explained this beautifully. It feels great to be understood for a change.

Oh, and yes, you can be an "atheist" and still be spiritual in this sense. In fact, in my observation, there are a lot more spiritual atheists than spiritual ideologues because spirituality has to do with acting on universal values instead of narrow self-interest or ideological norms.

In Canada, the organization for atheists is appropriately called "Humanist Canada"

What is Humanism?

Humanism is a dynamic and religion-free way of life that affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical and meaningful lives, aspiring to the greater good of humanity. Humanists are guided by reason and scientific inquiry, inspired by music and art, and motivated by ethics, compassion and fairness.

The earliest written record of Humanist philosophy originated in ancient Greece thousands of years ago. This philosophy turned to human beings rather than gods to solve human problems. Democritus (460-351 BCE), a progressive thinker, atomic theorist, and Greek philosopher, asserted that human beings can set higher standards of personal integrity and social responsibility by guiding their lives by rational, moral, fair and compassionate means, rather than invoking imaginary or mystical sanctions.

Humanists support secular and scientific approaches to addressing the wide range of issues important to us all. This is why Humanists advocate keeping government and religion separate. Secular laws are the fairest and most realistic way that people of all faiths and philosophies can be considered as truly equal under the law.

_{Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.}

adrena February 6, 2009 - 2:24pm

Democritus

With all due respect to Democritus, who, as the father of modern science, was an extraordinary thinker and light years ahead of his time, his legacy also has a dark side, even if unintended. It was Democritus’ atomistic view of reality that provided the foundation for such later scientific ground breakers as Sir Francis Bacon, whose development of empiricism may have unleashed modern science but also brought us, among other things, moral relativism, extreme individualism, and the transformation of the natural world from on object of reverence to one of exploitation (as expressed in Bacon’s declaration that “knowledge is power.”). Ultimately, this world view led to materialism.

I like to think that an equally inspiring figure for modern times is Democritus’ contemporary, Plato. While not overtly religious, Socrates laid the groundwork for positive religion in his faith in the transcendent “Good,” and Plato’s works at least led people to explore unifying, universal values that challenged both Athens’s religious orthodoxy and self-serving popular opinions. I know that Plato’s “dark side” is his allegedly totalitarian “Republic” (Stirling Newberry has written about this), although some believe it was more ironic than a serious proposal in light of his other works, but I think Plato’s dialogues show that an implicit religious faith in no way contradicts true self-examination.

As much as I respect secular humanists with good values, I think people like Christopher Hitchens are missing the point to conflate belief in God with religious orthodoxy. The many hypocrisies and injustices of institutionalized religion shouldn’t blind us to considering that belief in the transcendent is in fact at the root of such messages of Jesus as, “Turn the other cheek,” “Sooner shall a rich man get to heaven, etc.,” ”Let he who is without sin cast the first stone,” and so on. For an outlook, by the way, that I feel embodies everything that religion SHOULD be as opposed to the oppressive forms it’s assumed over the ages, I would recommend reading the books of Ram Dass, who’s spent his life in pursuit of wisdom that unifies rather than fragments belief

Aguilar February 7, 2009 - 8:56am

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Adrena and tjfxh's point is that one can be a materialist and still believe things like the sayings of Jesus you quoted.

One doesn't postpone judgement ("let he who is without sin...") because of a belief in "the transcendent", but because of a recognition of the other's humanity.

Belief in the transcendent is no sure cure against immorality.

_{They sicken of the calm, who knew the storm.}

Raja February 7, 2009 - 11:37am

My point

is neither that belief in the transcendent guarantees ethical virtue (witness John Hagee) nor that secularism is incompatible with positive values, and, while I passionately disagree with materialism, I was wrong to imply that it was, as you say, a bad thing. My main point was that belief in the transcendent (i.e. God) in what I would consider its truest capacity certainly includes all of the positive values that secularists advocate and at the same time does not necessarily stand for the negative aspects of organized religions against which people like Hitchens rail.

Aguilar February 7, 2009 - 12:28pm

Morality

has to break the historical apron strings connecting it to religion, just as science ("natural philosophy") did in its day. We need to see the two concepts as they are - fundamentally separate and distinct, albeit not unrelated.

The "urge to move towards God" should be, but currently is not, synonymous with the "urge to be a good person".

"The best-informed man is not necessarily the wisest. Indeed there is a danger that precisely in the multiplicity of his knowledge he will lose sight of what is essential."

- Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Escher Sketch February 7, 2009 - 12:36pm

Absolutely.

I'm surprised that you felt you had to make the argument...

_{They sicken of the calm, who knew the storm.}

Raja February 7, 2009 - 12:48pm

Let's concentrate on the good side

_{Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.}

adrena February 7, 2009 - 4:06pm

Religious belief can, in fact, actively stunt this process...

Ken Burns, in discussing Huckleberry Finn, observed that Huck had a "moral awakening" when defending his African-American friend Jim against the slavery-supporting disseminated-from-the-local-churches mores of the time when he said, "All right, I'll go to hell, then!", when making his decision to help his friend escape.

It's fiction - but illustrative of the idea.

_{They sicken of the calm, who knew the storm.}

Raja February 6, 2009 - 2:40pm

The Family

...from cryptogon:

Tony Blair: World Needs More Religion
February 6th, 2009

If you haven’t read the one about The Family, don’t miss it. (Also, The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power by Jeff Sharlet.)

They’re the people behind the National Prayer Breakfast.

Via: Independent:

Zuma February 6, 2009 - 1:03pm

The Family has come up here before and it's scary

Here's the Rolling Stone interview with Jeff Sharlet. Short.

Inside "The Family"

Here's the Harper's article by Sharlet. Long but detailed and fascinating.

Jesus plus nothing: Undercover among America's secret theocrats

This is not about a bunch of harmless nut cases. These people are serious, focused, and networked.

tjfxh February 6, 2009 - 2:21pm

New World Ordery Heebie Jeebies

One angle to this - glad zuma flagged the cryptogon post - is the sneeky intersection of neo-humanism (or perhaps trans-humanism) as the official religious component of the whole New World Order thingy. By which I mean, i guess, synthetic new religions that are mainly about getting people to be subservient to a cruel and all-encompassing global elite power structure. Or perhaps its the sense that New Age religious stuff encourages people to play with crystals instead of challenging Wall Street.

Lucis Trust, there's an example of a mysterious foundation-financed 'harmony' kinda outfit with all these UN ties and stuff. Likewise Tony Blair's creepy Power Catholicism. I don't really know what it all means, but it is definitely a 'mode of stuff' out in the mix. Overall i find cryptogon.com to be appropriately skeptical of modern new weirdo religions as agendas.

A really good example of elite religious engineering is "Changing Images of Man" by the Stanford Research Institute (which at that time were also carrying out "remote viewing" ie telepathy research for the CIA under operation STARGATE - really!!). That whole book is up on skilluminatiresearch.com - its basically like "what if elite scientists dropped acid to see about how to control people en masse". Interesting stuff about 'electromagnetic pollution' in there too.

And Alex Jones is yobbing on about how pastors are secretly getting bankrolled by FEMA to condition people to accept emergency government powers or something. see prisonplanet.com if you like... All this old timey tele-preacha stuff is starting to look dated, but we'll see if Obama or anyone else gets their new synth power-religio-morphic NWO Weirdness on. The Moonies and their friends at the CIA (and Bush fam) are the closest example i know of (Korean CIA links (KCIA) too), but decidedly 1970s in implementation.

--
Hongpong.com

HongPong February 6, 2009 - 3:54pm

Something the left lacks - but around which organizing principle

can it be done? "The greater good" hasn't seemed to cut it - but perhaps when the choice is very stark.

_{They sicken of the calm, who knew the storm.}

Raja February 6, 2009 - 6:09pm

fwiw. Sharlets book has sold a few copies in my store eom

n/t

graham February 7, 2009 - 5:17am

Something you forgot to mention about Archbishop Williamson is

his outrageously absurd views on women. His sermon on women and trousers is hilarious. A comment to this: Excellency, this time really you have flipped your lid!

If the pope doesn't know this man is a complete idiot then he is an idiot himself.

_{Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.}

adrena February 6, 2009 - 2:01pm

eewww Adrena, that is just so wrong

I don't know if you saw the link I and Tina posted about women not teaching men, but your post tops that. shudder, time for another shower.

graham February 6, 2009 - 5:16pm

I missed that link

Please lead me to it. Thanks.

_{Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.}

adrena February 6, 2009 - 8:14pm

if you really want to feel ill:

any woman set up in public view is liable to arouse unclean desire in men.

graham February 7, 2009 - 2:42am

a friend sent me this which has me gagging:

on Julie Andrews and the Sound of Music ...all the elements of pornography are there, just waiting to break out.

graham February 7, 2009 - 2:48am

quotable quotes #7813

Dr Shimon Samuels, the Simon Wisenthal centres' director of international relations, described Williamson as

"the Borat of the schismatic Catholic far-Right" and said that he was "a clown, but a dangerous clown".

graham February 7, 2009 - 2:52am

Recessions Are New...

...Its just a word, really. Coined in the last generation to describe a situation where the lines don't point directly up, all of the time. To that point in history, under the new post war economic system, everything was rosy as the US economy sailed into the 70's - where it hit a wall. To describe this unfortunate situation, the "cosy" word recession was invented, describing a simple anomoly in an otherwise upwards and onwards future. Its a marketing term, kinda like "rollback" is.

So now it gets applied in every insance a Politician has to account for a slip in the system.

BUT - make no mistake. This is NOT a recession. Its something else with a great deal of historical precedent. It's called "Economic Collapse", which is word historians use to describe the catostrophic economic change that always preceeds a major social one. I'd Use "Financial Implosion" myself, as there is no particular precident in this current Economic system for a crisis of this kind, and hey, if it's gonna get a label why not mine LOL.

And, for the record, there is no historical precedent where God stepped in and fixed everything. I'm not sayin'...I'm just sayin'

AetiusRomulous February 6, 2009 - 2:24pm

Since "Dont go in the forest alone or the demon will eat you up"

an admonition that cave dwellers almost certainly told their children, religion has always been, is, and will always be at the very center of the strategy for control over the many by the "chosen" few.

Once in a while this results in a good thing (such as preventing lost children wandering around primeval forests) but mostly it's a very, very bad thing (see Crusades, Salem Witch Trials, the Holocaust, Gaza, the Inquisition and omigawd a miles long blood drenched herstory of other terrible things.)

Irresponsible governments always embrace religion and religion always reliably attempts to exert influence on governments, especially in regard to the laws of a nation.

But, like the law, God is an ass. Otherwise, who can possibly explain Her choices at the annual County Music Awards?

Anyway, I like Hitchins - and not just because he's a very distant relative on the husband's side - and Campbell, of course, and other braniacs who bring uncommon sense to the subject.

Chickadee February 6, 2009 - 5:29pm

It is Alanis Morissette's fault

I always envision her as God for some reason - I think a movie I once saw cast her in that capacity - so obviously she has some twisted taste in country music.

Numerian February 7, 2009 - 5:20am

I can relate to that, when I think back over the past

10 years her music marked the beginning of a new era.
She quotes David Shnarch on her website

marriage always holds your partner's happiness hostage and the price of ransom is always your development

graham February 7, 2009 - 5:43am

Yes, a wonderful movie...

...Dogma; Matt Damon, Alanis Morissette, Chris Rock, George Carlin, etc.

Celsius 233 February 7, 2009 - 8:39am

Covering all bases

In Japan, as everybody knows, people are "born Shinto, married Christian, and buried Buddhist". Works very well. Has the added advantage that there are scores more holidays and gift giving opportunities throughout the year. Gifts are a good thing.

Chickadee February 7, 2009 - 2:57pm

More arguments for God

Causation and design are both invoked as evidence for the existence of a deity. Does this reasoning hold water?

Comments (122)
o Jonathan West
o guardian.co.uk, Thursday 5 February 2009 15.00 GMT
o Article history

Two weeks ago, I started to explore the reasons people give for believing in God. In this blog, I'll look at some of the more complex ones.

One important class of arguments offered in favour of God are what I call the "origin" arguments, which try to describe why we are here at all and how everything started.

The argument from first causes

As far as I'm aware, the argument from first causes was first written down by Aquinas. Briefly stated, the argument is as follows: all events in the universe have a prior cause, and those causes in turn have other prior causes, until we reach the original uncaused first cause of everything, and we call that first cause God.

There are two problems with this argument. The first is that while Aquinas assumed it, we don't actually know that all events have a cause. For instance, it is not known whether the radioactive decay of an individual atomic nucleus has a cause. Although we can statistically predict what proportion of nuclei of a particular element will decay over a specific period of time, we do not know if there is any circumstance which will induce a specific nucleus to undergo decay at a particular moment, or whether the decay is random and uncaused.

The second problem is that even if all events are traceable in principle to an original cause, is it really appropriate to call that cause God? Remember we are talking of a Christian argument here and therefore of the Christian God, with all the attributes we traditionally ascribe to him (performing miracles, reading innermost thoughts, answering prayers etc).

There seem to be rather a lot of unrelated attributes getting assigned to this first cause. It is one thing to deduce that there was a first cause, it is quite another to make such assumptions about its characteristics, unless you can support them with other evidence.

_{"Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined." -Henry David Thoreau}

Tina February 8, 2009 - 10:52am

Next up: "how many faeries can dance on the head of a pin?"

The Tao that can be spoken of is not the Tao.

(Fittingly, the link features myriad translations ranging from the turgid to the cryptic and from the esoteric to the flat and bald.)

"The best-informed man is not necessarily the wisest. Indeed there is a danger that precisely in the multiplicity of his knowledge he will lose sight of what is essential."

- Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Escher Sketch February 8, 2009 - 3:20pm

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