Wonder what the value of having a trade certificate is - like a plumber? That's what I'd consider advising my kid to do, if he or she had the talent and stomach.

I also wonder if these figures are really accurate going forward - ie. is the value of Bachelors degree earned now, really going to be as good as the value of one earned in 1950?

For various reasons, I doubt it.

Past performance is no gaurantor of future performance, and I think we're getting "credentialed out".

There are a number of arguments here...

One is the economic argument. It is tricky deciding whether to include costs of "room and board and incidentals" in the incremental cost of college, unless the alternative for the student in question is to cease living indoors and eating altogether. In reality, a person chooses to live at college, generally, if the college is good enough that the degree from the college can reasonably expected to defray the incremental costs of no longer living with mom and dad. In other words, if all college educations created equal opportunities, there would be a lot more people attending community college and living at home. But just as a license to practice plumbing puts one in a limited group with power to command elevated pay rates, so too does graduating from Yale provide one with a chance to charge incrementally over the guy who went to community college. In the marketplace, the degrees are frequently considered to be different products. So if one were to treat the topic rigorously one would have to find the rate of return on the community college degree, and the incremental rate of return for other colleges. And one would have to subtract out the costs that would occur anyway. Like beer and condoms.

The second argument is the question of what goods accrue to society. If one were to assume that degree holders create more wealth for society than they realize as income, then that portion of the gain that accrues to society rightly ought to be paid for by society. In other words, if the public realizes 80% of the economic benefits of college education, then it is reasonable that something like that be the amount of cost borne by the public. My guess is 80% is not far off.

So far, however, we have been treating all schooling as if it is nothing but vocational training. This is a mistake unique to Americans. And it is ironic because the whole reason the founders of our nation made education manditory was so that we might learn how to be good citizens. I remember my father talking about it in the early 1970's. It made him sound like a dinosaur. But if we fail to educate twenty or forty percent of America's most promising youth along the lines of liberal education of the sort that the British did through the seventeenth and eighteenth century, then democracy as we have enjoyed it stands on shaky legs. And it is almost impossible to put a price tag on this benefit.

In the end, I advocate very generous funding of college. It can profoundly change who we are, or at least give us some power to choose. Especially if we get out of the house to do it.

I spent 6 years between HS and college working as a carpenter, then cabinet maker. I went back to school because (1) I was bored and (2) as a CA resident, UCB cost about $250 / quarter back then.

I'm glad I did - it opened up so many intellectual avenues (and taught me enough intellectual discipline) that I haven't been bored since, (I just go to the library, randomly pick books until I find one well written and interesting). OTOH, I'm sorry that after graduation I didn't open up a cabinet shop. I'd be better off now, and would have avoided 25 years of trying to be a round peg in a square (white collar) hole. Gack. Every day was like the Calvin and Hobbes cartoon of trying to get Calvin to wear a tie.

Young folks: whether or not you go to school, get yourself an electrician's license. It pays well, can't be outsourced, and you won't be taking work home on weekends because you had to spend all week avoiding be a pawn in someone else's fight for a corner office.

drillers make in Alberta? L0L In addition to their hourly pays, they get preferential housing treatment, and get to fly home to various parts of North America. Alberta desperately needs skilled workers and are paying fantastic, premium wages. University graduates who will not get their hands dirty need not apply.

But if we fail to educate twenty or forty percent of America's most promising youth along the lines of liberal education of the sort that the British did through the seventeenth and eighteenth century, then democracy as we have enjoyed it stands on shaky legs.

Oy. My Scottish grandfather got free schooling from Queen Elizabeth until 4th grade, at which point everyone went down into the coal mines.

My personal rant is that student loans have created inflation in college costs by providing free money. Free money to teenagers funding a major in waittressing I mean English Literature. I would switch to free college for the masses, like Mexico. Failing that a grant system, demanding an education majoring in something that earns a living.

The US economy, like all economies, needs more and more gold-collar laborers. Churning out an overabundance of marine biologists in debt for $50k is no way to run a country.

"1.06 times the average high schooler’s annual pay"

should read "1.6 times the average high schooler’s annual pay"

The 1.6 ratio is that from which I derived the IRR.

There was a period of time in which the minimum wage was higher in relation to tuition; for example, in 1976 the wage was $2.30/hr. Public college tuition averaged $600/ year. Until recently the ratio was 5.15 to 4700.

It has to be much harder to work your way through school for this reason alone.

http://mauberly.blogspot.com/

From a CNN article

"The latest sweetener was announced this week by Davidson College. The highly ranked liberal arts school near Charlotte, N.C., will eliminate student loans from its financial aid packages. Instead, it will provide all its student aid in the form of grants and work study.

Davidson's move is not the first of its kind. But it is a small college with an endowment of just $422 million. The Ivy Leagues and big public universities that have made similar moves have endowments well into the billions, said Jacqueline King, director of the Center for Policy Analysis at the American Council on Education.

Princeton got the ball rolling a few years ago when it announced it would replace all student loans with grants and said it would not ask low-income families to contribute much, if anything, to their children's education.

Not long after, Harvard, Yale and Columbia announced they would eliminate student loans for low-income students, as did the University of Virginia, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and the University of Minnesota. In addition, Harvard does not ask families with incomes under $60,000 to contribute anything toward their child's education, and reduces the expected family contribution (EFC) for families making $60,000 to $80,000.

Stanford also reduces or eliminates the EFC for families making less than $60,000. And last month, it said it would reduce the cap on the annual amount of student loans that an undergraduate is expected to borrow -- from $3,500 to $2,000."

http://finance.yahoo.com/college-education/article/102699/top-colleges-get-more-affordable

http://mauberly.blogspot.com/