British Elections: The Leaders' Debate - Foreign Affairs


Michael Collins

I enjoyed Sterling Newberry's excellent article of April 19, Liberal Democrats on the Verge of Historic Takedown. The numbers were certainly there for a Nick Clegg - Liberal Democrat stampede if only Clegg had the ability to finish off the old parties, as he refers to Labour and the Conservatives.

Last night's party leaders debate was a must win. Clegg had to differentiate himself by showing that he was more than just another of the hallow men who occupy so many positions of power in the new millennium.

He had the momentum but did he have the substance and skill to close the door on Labour and the Conservatives?

I watched the entire debate. Before I began that ordeal, I saw this quote form Adam Price, Member of Parliament from Plaid Cymru, the independence party in Wales.

I'd engaged in about 36 hours of self indulgent hope after reading the Newberry piece. I actually thought that Clegg might represent some sort of shift in the way things are done. But that's not the case, it seems.

The topic of this debate was foreign affairs. The candidates spent nearly as much time on immigration policy. During that exchange, real alternatives were explored to a degree. But on foreign affairs, there was a virtual consensus.

Liberal Democrat Nick Clegg endorsed the Afghanistan invasion. It was essential to prevent "more terrorist attacks in Britain." His timing is off. The terrorist attacks in Britain came after the invasion. He made a point that the government had to provide better equipment and support for the troops. His main point was on execution: "Time is running out for the mission in Afghanistan. Unless we change direction, failure is inevitable." We've heard all of this before. It's a bit old.

Prime Minister Gordon Brown said the effort was necessary to break the "chain of terror that links these terrorists to actions in the United Kingdom." "To keep the streets safe in Britain," he argued, "we have to take on al Qaeda wherever it is." Conservative Cameron argued more of the same. Did Richard Holbrooke write this dialog?.

As the United States General in charge of Afghanistan laments the death of too many innocents, these three are cheer leading for more war. I wonder if any of them read that news and, if so, what effect did it have on them?

Since the focus was on Clegg tonight, it should be noted clearly that he had nothing original to say about sustaining an effort that delivered so much pain and engendered so much hostility toward the United States and Great Britain.

The other foreign policy issues raised were the renewal of the British Trident nuclear deterrent and relationships with the European Union. Brown jumped on Clegg for his willingness to simply review the Trident program. Clegg indicated, yet again, that he had nothing much new to say as he nearly apologized for questioning Trident.

There were some interesting points in the debate. Each candidate was concerned about securing retirement programs, support for those who cared for their elderly relatives, and taking personal responsibility for curbing environmental excesses.

An audience member asked the candidates to comment on the upcoming visit of Pope Benedict II in the context the Church's failure to prevent child abuse. Brown's least guarded moment came at this point. He showed a real depth of understanding:

"I’ve met some of the people who have rightly complained about the abuse that they were subject to when young and it never leaves them, it’s something that is with them always and no matter what you can try to do to help, there is always this problem that they have to face up to every day that they were abused, cruelly abused, by people in whom they placed their faith and trust."

Brown Wins the Debate

Brown's comparison of the two male model look-alikes, Clegg and Cameron, to his two "young boys squabbling" set the tone early on (and perhaps for the remainder of the campaign). Brown positioned himself as the éminence grise: "I've had to take the country through the most difficult crisis," he said gravely. He sealed the deal by making this point several times: "The priority at the moment is that we continue to have an economic recovery," making clear who was in charge of righting the ship of state.

Brown was the clear winner based on his poise, rhetorical technique, and willingness to go for the throat on several occasions. He presented as the adult who had lead Great Britain from near collapse to very modest but positive economic growth according to figures released just before the debate. By doing that, he created the impression that he was the clear choice to lead in the future.

My judgment on the debate is based on the style and skill of the candidates, not any agreement with their positions. On substance, I favor the regional parties in Wales and Scotland that seek independence and then membership in the European Union. Maybe that would end the infection of imperial fantasies that arrived during the Norman invasion, caused so much pain around the world, and continue to live (albeit without potency) in these three candidates.

As for Clegg, his very real surge has a strong basis in the numbers that Newberry presented. But his presence and programs lack the daring to accomplish a true sea-change in politics. He needs to work on a few original ideas.

END

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Michael Collins April 23, 2010 - 4:43am
( categories: United Kingdom )

had Clegg as the ultimate winner. One new twist is that the ultimate coalition out of this election could be a Tory - Liberal Dem coalition, leaving Labour out of power entirely.

I have heard that Cameron and Clegg have been in some discussion. I can't possibly imagine how that would work. Except that Brown has managed to piss them both off. Recall that whoever wins is going to need one of the other parties to govern.

May 6!!

Scotjen61 April 23, 2010 - 2:35pm

Just from watching how they handled the encounter, I would vote for Brown. I see how the polls went for Clegg (although they were not overwhelming, as I recall). But on the campaign theme point - the chiding by Brown with these other two as children at bath time - may just stick. It was fascinating.

Michael Collins April 23, 2010 - 3:09pm

whether he makes sense or not.....

especially as final economic "test" paints bleak picture for UK


The origin of the universe has not as yet been shown to be a conspiracy theory

nymole April 23, 2010 - 9:11pm

Thank you.

In a forced choice situation, I'd trust Brown much more than Clegg and Cameron. Unlike, Bush-Cheney, Brown actually addressed the economic collapse. Who knows. But here are some more #'s:

YouGov Latest voter intention

  • Conservative 34%
  • Labour 29%
  • Liberal Democrat 29%
  • Others 8%

Michael Collins April 24, 2010 - 3:05am

in prince's clothing- ( but my Brit relatives don't care what I think:-)


The origin of the universe has not as yet been shown to be a conspiracy theory

nymole April 24, 2010 - 8:17am

He's comes off as insincere, in appearance to me anyway. He's got an Eddy Haskell sort of vibe;)

My mother in law is a British citizen and has been since coming here in 1946. She's come a long way. Now that I've studied up a bit on the race, I'm thinking of approaching her. I suspect she likes Brown but you never know. She still subscribes to those British royalty magazines and thinks the institution of the monarchy makes sense. Delightful woman but can't cook at all; there's a profound hostility to food. Her response, "you should have taken us out to dinner."

Michael Collins April 24, 2010 - 1:10pm

In a daze (woke up from an hour dozing) I watched the first 35 minutes on FoxNews (SKY is their EU wing). I didn't realize Clegg was a professional globalist negotiator under Thatcher, but that explains why he's part of the controlled agenda :)

They did grouse a lot about the EU and Brown accused Clegg of being antiamerican and Cameron of being antieuropean whatever that means. Kind of interesting, and marginally better than an American debate. With their short election seasons they can't get those stupid three-word buzzphrases going fortunately.

Did anyone discuss the surveillance state insanity in the tail half?
--
Hongpong.com

HongPong April 23, 2010 - 3:43pm

It was endorsed indirectly, I'd say. It wasn't mentioned at all, not even in audience questions. In addition, Clegg and Brown were one dimensional on terrorism - fighting in Afghanistan to prevent attacks in London even though the subway bombing was in July, 2005, well after the invasion of Afghanistan. Clegg used this attack as justification for the war. Sloppy and transparent but he wasn't called on it.

The moderator was, imho, a slug. He added nothing. I thought of how good Bob Shiefer was in one of our presidential debates. I expected more.

Michael Collins April 23, 2010 - 4:14pm

Michael Collins April 24, 2010 - 10:09pm

Brown aides had worried that his reputation for volatility might torpedo Labour's hopes of re-election, but recent internal polls suggest that, on the contrary, stories of Brown's testosterone-fuelled eruptions have been almost entirely responsible for a recent recovery in the party's popularity. As a result, the aide said, Labour was "going all in", staking the election on the hope that voters will be drawn to an alpha-male personality who "is prepared to pummel, punch or even headbutt the British economy into a new era of jobs and prosperity". Guardian April 1

Michael Collins April 24, 2010 - 3:50am

From a colleague and good friend in the UK. Excellent analysis:

paulbecke

18 Apr 2010, 10:32PM

The plangent, increasingly agitated whining of Cameron and Clegg made Brown's measured, thoughtful tone seem positively magisterial.

It seems bizarre that their spin-doctors didn't warn them to try to control the desperation in their voices, as, to borrow an Americanism, they came across as 'sore loser-men' even before the election. "It's my turn! You're a rotten bully, and I'm going to tell my Mummy you won't let me play!' Brown came across as the only heavy-weight, to their paper weights.

The people are treating it all very rationally, as the infotainment it is designed to be by the media people - like local government elections. Remember Peter Snow raising the excitement level with his breathless, stop-press announcements, about results that had just come in; as someone pointed out: 3/4 of an hour earlier. And apparently he'd been holding back the results, all the time, doubtless with similar time-lags! Maybe my memory is playing me false on the detail, but I don't think so.

And now we have the 'usual suspects' in the Guardian buying the right-wing media hologram for all they're worth. 'It's a funny, old world', as the Sage of Grantham once mused.

Michael Collins April 27, 2010 - 12:55am

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