How Bad Will the Housing Bubble Hangover Be?


Well, if you want to know, you could do a lot worse than to read this post which compares the bubble to the Japanese bubble. The graph to the left starts off the article, but the really interesting ones are those that compare California (as a proxy for the top real estate market, other major markets like DC and NYC show similiar patterns) and the Tokyo market.

Now when you take a look at just this chart you'd figure that the bubble would play itself out in two to three years, then the market will start rising again. But this bubble, as the chart shows, has gone on a lot longer and a lot higher than prior bubbles. Even if you decide to ignore the 95 to 2001 period and concentrate on the 01 to 07, well, it's way up and it took longer to get there. Other bubbles have taken about as much time to crash as they took to inflate. So you're looking at... 6 years - till 2012 or 2013. If you want to count the entire runnup - you're looking at, oh, 14 years or so. 2021. Ouch.

More After the Jump

But as Ben notes in his article, perhaps the better model to look at is shown by the next two charts. The first, of course, shows what happened in the Japanese runnup. Pretty scary, eh...

Their runnup took 4 years... and took 4 to 5 years to unwind. Looking at the third chart makes one think that if this pattern is applicable, the real runnup did indeed begin around 2001, so we're looking at a 6 to 7 year unwinding period - with the worst of the pain still to come. We've just gone over the lip.


And note this very carefully - Japan's central bank loosened very agressively, eventually going down to 0%. It didn't stop the deflation and in fact Japan, ever since then, has been in the economic doldrums, sputtering along, never quite getting a good economic cycle going - ever again, despite all the monetary stimulus in the world.

Now the third chart, as noted, is for California rather than the six largest cities, but it still looks a lot like the runnup. Ben is promising an updated chart showing the six largest US cities, and I'm betting it'll show an even steeper climb, since it won't be averaging in rural California areas.

Bottom line: at least six or seven years of pain by either bubble model bases on past experience. And if this is comparable to the Japanese bubble, the fallout from this (and from overleveraged speculation in general) could be a generational economic malaise.

If you haven't read Ben's article, head on over.


Ian Welsh August 23, 2007 - 12:31pm
( categories: Miscellany )

Interesting. I'd love to hear your take on what's going on in the Edmonton and Calgary markets--or just Alberta in general--in light of this.

idealisticpragmatist.blogspot.com

Idealistic Prag... August 23, 2007 - 1:06pm

that at all, but off the top of my head - resource boom. Resource booms /always/ end badly. Always. The question is when.

Ian Welsh August 23, 2007 - 1:28pm

I meant the housing market specifically, but if you haven't been following, then never mind. :-)

idealisticpragmatist.blogspot.com

Idealistic Prag... August 23, 2007 - 1:36pm

was that when the resource boom goes under, so will the housing market. Alberta may be trying to diversify, but at the end of the day, the economy is so driven by resources that everything else is secondary. I would examine the internal immigration numbers in particular, actually.

Ian Welsh August 23, 2007 - 1:44pm

Oh, it's clear to me that when the resource boom goes under, everything else will collapse as well. But I was wondering whether you thought it would actually manage to hold out until then even though the bubble is bursting everywhere else. That would potentially create some difficult disparities between Alberta and the surrounding jurisdictions presuming there are at least a few more years until the bust.

idealisticpragmatist.blogspot.com

Idealistic Prag... August 24, 2007 - 10:03am

Famed bond fund manager Bill Gross said the White House should bail out the millions of American homeowners who face the dreaded prospect of foreclosure this year.

"If we can bail out Chrysler, why can't we support the American homeowner?" Gross wrote in his monthly investment outlook on PIMCO's Web site.

With nearly 2 million homeowners at risk of losing their homes this year and with housing prices rapidly receding, Gross said President Bush, not the Federal Reserve, is the best hope for "almost homeless homeowners."

"This rescue, which admittedly might bail out speculators who deserve much worse, would support millions of hard-working Americans whose recent hours have become ones of frantic desperation," said Gross, a founder of the fixed-income investment firm PIMCO and a columnist for Fortune.

"Write some checks, bail 'em out, prevent a destructive housing deflation that (Fed Chairman) Ben Bernanke is unable to do. After all 'W', you're 'the Decider,' aren't you?" Gross wrote.

Many have called on the Federal Reserve for help with the worsening state of the housing market, including cutting short-term interest rates. While the central bank has been reluctant to do so, Gross warned that such a move would not necessarily guarantee that adjustable-rate mortgages would not keep climbing or that mortgage lenders would relax their lending standards.

More and more troubling news has emerged from the already battered housing market recently as foreclosures nearly doubled during the month of July from last year, RealtyTrac reported earlier this week.

Home prices have also been hard hit recently, falling 1.5 percent during the second quarter, according to the National Association of Realtors. While falling home prices "might be healthy", the decline could represent an asset depreciation not seen since the Great Depression, warned Gross.

The bond manager noted a homeowner bailout wouldn't be the first time the U.S. government has come to the rescue when the economy has faced a crisis.

In the 1990s, the government rescued the savings and loan industry by absorbing its bad debt and late in that decade the Federal Reserve stepped in to restore calm after the collapse of a hedge fund, Long Term Capital Management.

Gross made a handful of policy recommendations for the White House, including creating an agency to coordinate bailouts or aid for homeowners and making adjustments in the government's Federal Housing Authority program.

http://biz.yahoo.com/cnnm/070823/082307_gross_homeowners.html?.v=1

http://mauberly.blogspot.com/

mauberly August 23, 2007 - 1:07pm

During his famous rant two weeks ago begging for a Fed rate cut, he let slip a one sentence observation about the amount of money we are spending in Iraq. Even the commentariat for the business world is beginning to make this connection, if Bill Gross hasn't already.

Are we up to $3.0 billion a week yet in Iraq? The total bill so far comes to $17,000+ for each Iraqi, not that they've seen any benefits from that expense. I know the Democrats are terrified of appearing weak on defense, but they are also supposed to be the party that knows something about managing the public purse. Why is it so hard to say there is simply no more money left for the Iraq War?

Numerian August 23, 2007 - 2:15pm

Before these stupid homeowners are bailed out, the government should bail out all the people who are hit with huge and unexpected medical expenses they cannot pay. The homeowners DECIDED to buy a home, nobody made them. Why should the taxes of somebody who may have not bought a home because they realized they could not afford it subsidize the purchase by somebody who instead went ahead and bought a house they could not afford. Profoundly injust.

creativelcro August 23, 2007 - 1:32pm

we get that's what you think.

Tell ya what, reform the bankruptcy laws back to the old standard so people can easily go bankrupt and leave the poeple who should have never loaned them the money in the first place (I used to work in an underwriting department, it's called due diligence and I have no sympathy for lenders who don't do it because unlike ordinary people they are finance professionals who are trained to understand cash flow) get stuck with it, and themselves go bankrupt, and while I'm still not sure that the macro picture supports it, I'll at least consider it.

Until then, these people were stupid, but they were also preyed on, and it's very hard for them to get out from under. And while I don't believe in a full bailout, I do believe that when millions of people "make the same mistake" it was, by definition, because of systemic problems. In a properly operating system, those people should never, ever, have been offered loans they obviously could never pay back. That's malpractice by the lenders even more than the borrowers.

Ian Welsh August 23, 2007 - 1:43pm

Put the bankrupty laws back to what they were, or even make it easier for individuals to default then let the chips fall where they may the next year or so. No one wants to go bankrupt, people don;t do it on a whim. So there is pain there. But the companies that practice predatory lending should be standing in the ch. 11 line with all those folks, they need to own their mistakes as well.

It's not that the market doesn't work, it's that we no longer let it work. Bailouts are last resorts, let's keep them that way.

zot23 August 23, 2007 - 3:27pm

Really, because the blasted things have passed through so many hands, no one has a clear right to renegotiate loan terms. A bit of legislation might fix that.

Loans can be restructured a number of ways--the term can be extended; payment schedules can be escalated at a future date, etc.

No need for a handout, just the light of cool reason.

Petronius August 23, 2007 - 3:23pm

The Interest Rates in the prior decades have all tended to be at or above 9% on home mortgages, with the current mortgages still hovering in the realm of 6%. That is a 33% savings on interest expense with the near term principal at a relatively negligable level.

That means that a person, even with similar median wage, can afford 33% more house. Not quite beause insurance and property taxes are higher. So a long term median $150,000 can go to about $200,000 (33% higher). Now that is still below the bubble number that looks like it is hitting $230,000, so the bubble should fall something like 10% to 15% from current average levels.

This does not consider the added tax advantage that was put onto homes in the late 1990's (allowing two homes for interest deductions, and higher non capital gain sales, etc.) But the 10% to 15% correction should hold. In California housing bubbles have corrected as much as 20%. So some markets would be more, though they also get skewed by international markets more.

Scotjen61 August 23, 2007 - 4:04pm

Bill Gross is being compassionate, which is the right thing to do. But then, so is universal health care and a bunch of other things. Where's the money for this, and why this over other pressing needs. How to determine who is losing their home and who is a flipper getting burned. Sometimes they are the same people. I know of many people in CA who bought homes to live in but didn't expect to keep them more than a couple years, till the reset was to kick in. The idea was to sell the place and take the cash to get something affordable. Bad bet for thsoe who got in too late to get out in time.

Moreover, his idea that a bailout will be able to prevent deflation in housing prices is flat wrong...unless the Fed unleashes inflation, which it may well do. Housing prices are way too high to be affordable for most people in the absence of way low rates and miniscule downpayments, not too many questions on the loan app, and little checking of the numbers. If the prices are propped up with a bailout, most people will still not be able to afford a home without a corresponding increase in take home, which is highly unlikely. In fact, odds of a severe recession are increasing daily.

Moreover, the boomers are set to retire or pass on, and there will be surplus of homes on the market in the coming years as this economically influential generation enters the final rite of passage.

tjfxh August 23, 2007 - 6:48pm

I thought we lived forever.

Numerian August 23, 2007 - 8:20pm

I intend to trade bonds for a millennium. Present values mean nothing to me; I want to see God on the bond again. And I want my coupons to have Him, as well. The corpus of my bond is a great secret. Usw(Etc.).

http://mauberly.blogspot.com/

mauberly August 23, 2007 - 10:14pm

God Clips My Coupons.

When Would Jesus Flip?

Forget it, Jake - it's AmnesiaTown

Tonsure Wimple August 25, 2007 - 3:28am

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