What Happened On FISA


Ok folks, here's what happened plus some perspective.

The word in Washington, what's being sold to Congresscritters, is that levels of intercepted "chatter" are currently at the same level as they were in 2001, just before 9/11. There is one gap which is considered legitimate by both sides - foreign to foreign calls that come through the US. Bush was, effectively, threatening that if another terrorist attack happened he would blame Democrats if they didn't give him authority.

What happened then is this - the House passed a bill which gave the White House that authority but no more - no authority to spy on Americans without a warrant.

The Senate put up two bills, one which was substantially like the House bill, and one that gave Bush authority to spy on Americans overseas and to force telecom companies to comply with spying orders. The first one failed, the second one passed, with 16 Senators voting for it. Why Reid put up both bills and didn't just put up the good bill and force the Repbublicans to filibuster it if they didn't like it (and have to explain that they wanted to spy on Americans and didn't want to give the pres authority to spy on foreigners) is something I haven't heard an explanation for.

Faced with two different bills, the House then considered the Senate bill, and 41 House Demorats voted with the Republicans to pass it.

The bill is awful but it isn't exactly a surprise. Anyone who has been paying attention should know that in the House Pelosi does not have full control over the caucus. The 41 who voted with the Republicans are the same people who usually break ranks and vote with Republicans on these issues.

As for the Senate - well, anyone who's been paying attention knows that they're even more weak when it comes to these things. Reid isn't a progressive, and he isn't in firm control of his caucus either (much less so than Pelosi is of hers, actually) and while he's willing to make symbolic fights he has so far shown no willingness to really go to the matt over any issue - not habeas; not torture; not Alito - and not this.

At the same time the six month expiry date is in the bill. This is a case where, faced with spineless members of Congress, the leadership did do what they could to mitigate the damage. We now know that we have to organize. We know when the deadline is, and there will be another shot at this.

As for Congress - it remains as it ever was - the Democrats don't have working majorities in either chamber. In the Senate there are many Senators who are weak and in the House the Blue Dogs are actually conservatives who probably really believe in this sort of thing (these are mostly the same people who voted for the bankruptcy bill, for example). A good majority of Dems in the House voted the right way - but the margin isn't there. We knew that the day after the election.

This isn't over yet - this is a battle, and not the final one. I think Pelosi is quite sincere in wanting to revisit this as soon as possible (probably before six months are up.) Much as people are angry at the leadership right now, the people who really have to be worked on are the House members and Senators who voted the wrong way.


Ian Welsh August 7, 2007 - 1:47am
( categories: USA: Congress )

Eavesdropping Reforms Empower Spy Chief
By KATHERINE SHRADER, Associated Press Writer

Monday, August 6, 2007

(08-06) 16:41 PDT WASHINGTON (AP) --

For the first time in nearly four decades, a senior intelligence official — not a secretive federal court — will have a decisive voice in whether Americans' communications can be monitored when they talk to foreigners overseas.

The shift came over the weekend as Congress hustled through changes to the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, known as FISA.

The bill provides new powers to the National Security Agency to monitor communications that enter the United States and involve foreigners who are the subjects of a national security investigation.

Apprehensive about what they were doing, Congress specified that the new provisions would expire after six months, unless renewed.

They would give National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales joint authority to approve the monitoring of such calls and e-mails, rather than the 11-member Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.

That means an intelligence official is now empowered to sort through the legalistic, secretive world of FISA, rather than a judge or the nation's highest law enforcement officer.

McConnell was added to the legal decision-making after lawmakers argued that the embattled attorney general shouldn't hold the power alone. The spy chief's experience is largely in military intelligence, not legal matters.

Civil liberties groups and some Democrats call the bill a vast expansion of government power. In the past several days, officials who work for McConnell, the Justice Department and the Republican congressional leadership have argued vehemently that that isn't so.

On Monday, White House spokeswoman Tony Fratto dismissed as "highly misleading" any suggestion that the changes broadly expanded the government's authority to eavesdrop on Americans' communications without court approval.

However, the law's wording — underscored by conversations with administration officials — shows the rules governing when and how Americans' calls and e-mails will be monitored have changed significantly.

Communications that can get caught up in intelligence collection require a spectrum of approvals, depending on the circumstances. Generally, such calls, e-mails, text messages and other electronic exchanges fall into three categories:

_ Purely foreign overseas communications. The NSA can monitor these calls and e-mails without any signoff from a judge or a senior government official.

_ Domestic conversations between two Americans. The Fourth Amendment's protection against unreasonable search and seizure requires that the government get approval from a court before eavesdropping on these exchanges.

_ Communications between an American and a foreigner, a more complex, gray area. If the American is the target of the investigation, then a court must approve the surveillance, the White House says. However, if the foreigner is the target, no court approval is necessary under the new law. Instead, Gonzales and McConnell will decide together whether to go ahead with the work.

It's this area — when an American is talking to a foreign suspect — where the Bush administration has acquired powers it didn't have before.

Under government regulations, agencies are supposed to minimize the collection, retention, and dissemination of any information about a U.S. citizen. Often that means names are blacked out, unless the identity is crucial to understanding the conversation.

Lisa Graves of the Center for National Security Studies, which advocates for civil liberties, said the new law will potentially allow the government to intercept millions of Americans' calls and e-mails without warrants — as long as the NSA and other authorities have a foreign suspect in their sights.

"This power that they have obtained is a dramatic expansion," she said.

The Bush administration also fixed an odd quirk of the surveillance law that it said had emerged with the rapid technological growth of the past two decades: The government had to get legal approval to listen in on foreign suspects who are located overseas but whose conversations cross into the extensive U.S. communications network, as millions of international calls and e-mails do each day.

While the law is in effect, that legal approval will no longer be required, officials acknowledged.

The power may last longer than some people expect, Graves noted, thanks to a little-noticed provision of the bill. While the law expires in February unless Congress acts to extend it, any surveillance orders that are in place when it sunsets can last up to a full year, she said.

Without a repeal, lawmakers "weren't just giving them the power for six months. They were giving it to them for the rest of the administration," Graves said.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/08/06/national/w150619D10.DTL

Tina August 7, 2007 - 3:51am

the House passed a bill which gave the White House that authority but no more - no authority to spy on Americans without a warrant.

if you are referring to friday night's vote on hr.3356. that's not what happened. it came to the floor under a suspension of the rules, which requires a 2/3 vote to pass. so while the vote was 218 - 207 in favor, the bill failed. and while this bill still had it's problems, it was far, far superior to what bush demanded.

then saturday night, the house voted on the administration bill, s.1972, under a rule which allowed for passage with a simple majority. it passed 227 - 183.

several commenters over at fdl are working to reconstruct the details of the parlimentary maneuvers used. pow wow will probably write a summary today, once we find out if the house rules committee met on saturday. i will post a link here when that happens.

i spent almost all of friday night and saturday glued to c-span, watching events on the house floor. a very frustrating experience.

selise August 7, 2007 - 6:17am

to be movement progressives. While having a Democratic majority is nice, it is not the same thing as having a progressive majority. Take the list of people who voted against that, that is more or less the largest progressive caucus you can count on with the threats to cut off pork that were made to the TORPS (That Other Republican Party, the 41 who voted for this).

This means that we are currently around 175. We need to flip 40 more seats to being progressives before we can move the key items of our agenda, including universal health care, restoration of constitutional liberties, rebuilding America and ending our carbon dependency. Now think on something, if the elections were held among people under 40, we'd be there already.

This means we have to keep the converts won, and continue to make new ones, both among the young and among older people seeing the light.

Progress, it is the only way to get to the future.

Stirling Newberry August 7, 2007 - 9:25am

hit the nail on the head. If I hear any more about the Democrats are no different from the Republicans and why we need a third party I will wretch.


“I despise idealogues masquerading as objective journalists.” - Bill O'Reilly, March 30, 2007

Mark August 7, 2007 - 9:58am

Democrats are quite different than Republicans. Like heads and tails of the same coin.

Someone else's rant

But for the reasons set forth above (and a full case would fill many volumes), the Democrats are not going to impeach any of these criminals, barring events entirely unforeseeable at present. And they will not for one overwhelmingly significant and determinative reason: always with regard to the underlying principles, and frequently with regard to the specifics, the Democrats are implicated in every single crime with which they would charge the members of the administration. The Republicans' crimes are their crimes.

I did inhale.

Don August 7, 2007 - 10:52am

but this whole story proves to anyone sentient, that the Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans.

The Democrats want to talk as if they oppose the Republicans. Then they roll over and comply with the most outrageous, totally-obviously-criminal demand of a completely discredited Executive Branch.

mmeo August 7, 2007 - 4:34pm

and as Stirling points out, we need more and better Democrats. The Democrats who voted for this bill need to be replaced with Democrats like the ones who voted against it so this type of thing doesn't happen. The argument that there is no difference between the two parties is willfully ignorant and responsible for the election of Bush in the first place.


“I despise idealogues masquerading as objective journalists.” - Bill O'Reilly, March 30, 2007

Mark August 7, 2007 - 4:46pm

usually has a pretty good point on how close the policies of the Dems and Reps actually are, I think in this *particular case* that the numbers do not fully support him. If the bill passed by 227-183, there are 233 Dems and 202 Reps in the House, and 41 Dems voted for the bill... then:

41/233 Dems voted for the bill = 17.5%
(227-41)/202 Reps voted for the bill = 92%

That's actually a staggering difference across party lines. However, in the larger picture, the fact that this bill passed in the first place and that the Dems aren't going full throttle to attack all the bad legislation and crap the Bush admin and Republicans have put in place does support Arthur's thesis--that, at some level, the Dems don't really care as much as we all want to think they do.

In fact, from this perspective, whether or not there is a difference between the two parties comes down to what you think the Dems should be doing: Should they wait for proper elections to (possibly) get a genuine majority that will repeal all these monstrous laws, or should they damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead! and use all means within their grasp to halt the slide immediately? The former think that there is a difference and that it can only be fully expressed in the next election by replacing the "bad" Dems. The latter think that there is no difference and the lack of significant friction in the legislature is indicative of some deep-down agreement--or, at least, lack of disagreement.

Bolo August 7, 2007 - 5:16pm

voted against that bill will face attack ads in 2008 alleging that they voted against giving the President the tools he needed to fight the war on terror. Of course it's bullshit. Not all of them have the requisite intestinal fortitude for the job and those who don't should be replaced.


“I despise idealogues masquerading as objective journalists.” - Bill O'Reilly, March 30, 2007

Mark August 7, 2007 - 9:13pm

will face precisely the same amount of attack ads in 2008 no matter what they do.


"The best-informed man is not necessarily the wisest. Indeed there is a danger that precisely in the multiplicity of his knowledge he will lose sight of what is essential."

- Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Escher Sketch August 8, 2007 - 2:46am

because it takes him so long to say anything. So I went and looked at this one carefully.

Now I believe the wordiness is a deliberate technique, so that you'll scan instead of read, so you'll mistake the long, boring parts as being careful argumentation in suppport of the assertive and strongly worded positions that open nearly every paragraph.

I finally found the key when the quote he used to criticize FDR, after listing internment of the Japanese, got really upset that he instituted economic controls and raised taxes.

But when you're trying to claim that the subject of a coup / assissination plot was really on the side of those plotting against him, you have to go pretty far afield.

Gordon August 8, 2007 - 10:50am

ideas re: FDR and the New Deal. His libertarianism, while more rational than most because he actually takes context into account, still leads him to some bizarre conclusions from time to time.

But with that in mind, he does have a lot of very interesting things to say. I've found his writings to be very informative--particularly on the "get a thicker skin" argument, the casual mistreatment and marginalization of children, the role of story and myth in popular conception of current events, what it means to be gay in a heteronormative society, and a fair amount of his historical analysis. His only major problem is that his ideology tends to channel and control his thoughts on history and current events.

And even with the warping that his libertarianism creates, I think he still makes some very cogent points.

Bolo August 8, 2007 - 8:37pm

1. Using a little patented "Abu Gonzales legal reasoning," any email or electronic communication can be interpreted as "foreign," because of the nature of the intertubes. Your packets go all over the globe.
2a. Do you really believe that given their creative and colorful "respect" for the law, their interpretation of this bill will fall on the side of the Constitution? Or, when has Bush et al ever shown the slightest hesistation to break a law when they want to, for who has presumed to stop them?
2b. I'm tired of being Charlie Brown/Lucy with the football re: the Dems. Six months from now they'll pass this crap, probably with enhanced powers for the executive, permanently.

chicago dyke August 7, 2007 - 9:28am

Away all that power that President Cheney has consolidated? Too tempting, all that juice. The whole deal will need the next Prez to repudiate all that has gone on. Fat chance with the rich getting richer and able to break the law with impunity/blessings of AbuGonzales and hire private armies like Blackwater with fully automatic weapons to guard their stuff. The corporations will not allow any reasonable level of repudiation without a huge war, like were not in one now.

Just wait for privileged corporate data to be stolen and given to the competition by somebody’s frat buddy using these new wiretapping/breaking and entering approved methods.

"The president's job is to think not only about today, but tomorrow"
george bush delivers deep insights in a speach given on
April 19, 2007
Tipp City High School
Tipp City, Ohio

Peter C August 7, 2007 - 12:52pm

...for lying in the run-up to the Iraq invasion, Bush has perfected his technique. He tells the lies only to the House & Senate Intelligence Committees which are, of course, sworn to such dire levels of Addington devised secrecy rules that expressing skepticism or asking impertinent questions lands you in Gitmo. When other Dems see the committee members looking ashen and terrified, they think the threat must be serious. Which it is, but it's a completely different threat.

Gordon August 7, 2007 - 9:30am

Evidence from reliable sources suggests that spying on American citizens has and continues to exceed the parameters allowed by law. Democrats, perhaps unwittingly, just became co-conspirators. Once compromised, they'll be less likely to raise hell in the future.

I've said it before and I say it again. Every phone call, every stroke on a computer in the United States of America is subject to surveillance without warrant, probable cause or judge's order.

Being against war is now a crime in the eyes of those in power.

I did inhale.

Don August 7, 2007 - 9:53am

of the entire US communication system in near real-time? I think you are overestimating the capabilities. All they can do is store information. Retrieving it and making sense of it in near-real-time is another story. The real danger is if you are a victim of a mistake or of targeted politically motivated harassment: It is not clear what recourse you'd have, which is pretty disturbing and certainly does not make one feel like one is living in a free country.

creativelcro August 7, 2007 - 1:26pm

"But how many people do you need to have surveillance of the entire US communication system in near real-time?"

Far fewer than sit in Congress, methinks.

Think boolean. And watch Spying On The Homefront at Frontline.

I think you dangerously underestimate the extent to which you are being ruled, not governed.

ww August 7, 2007 - 3:47pm

Sit down and read the bill. There are some real nuggets that leave you scratching your head. Here's one:

`(c) If the court concludes that the determination is not clearly erroneous, it shall enter an order approving the continued use of such procedures. If the court concludes that the determination is clearly erroneous, it shall issue an order directing the Government to submit new procedures within 30 days or cease any acquisitions under section 105B that are implicated by the court's order.

Nowhere does the bill state what's to be done with the erroneously-acquired intelligence. As in "Oh, let's do it anyway; if the court gives a thumbs-down, we've already got what we want."

Any use of this bill that does not provide for destruction of erroneously-obtained information is a joke. Intelligence is power, as J. Edgar Hoover demonstrated. Just because ill-gotten intelligence can't be used in criminal proceeding means nothing. Blackmail is always a possibility.

Further, there are no criminal penalties for abuse of this law. Why not? Where are the provisions for criminal prosecution for "leaking" or otherwise abusing information obtained under this statute?

Petronius August 7, 2007 - 1:22pm

Which, most people agree, provided for a bill far less intrusive and with more oversight than the POS that "President Bush" got through. Odds are that - yet again - we have the OVP and Bigtime all over this, as the Gellman-Becker series last month in the WaPo make clear, Cheney pressed for warrantless surveillance early after 9-11, and it's been his baby ever since.
And, why did Congress allow a bill allegedly aimed at "terrorists" to in fact include all "foreign intelligence matters" as material fit for warrantless surveillance? If I (living in the States) email someone running a website out of Beirut that is virulently opposed to the Siniora regime in order to congratulate him on a piece he wrote, it appears likely that I may become "a person of interest" to the NSA in time. I may even stand accused of "intimidating the Lebanese government" and risk prosecution under a recent Executive Order enjoining such actions. Or, at the very least, be hauled out of a boarding line on a domestic or international flight for "additional enquiries regarding security issues", or something to that effect. Paranoic...well, with "oversight" left with Abu Gonzo and Mike McConnell, wouldn't YOU be?



“les Etats-unis, c’est le seul pays à être passé de la préhistoire à la décadence sans jamais connaitre la civilisation…”...Georges Clemenceau

barrisj redux August 7, 2007 - 7:23pm
ww August 7, 2007 - 8:53pm

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.