Toxic Masculinity and Good Masculinity


Terrance writes about the stream of masculinity in which manhood is defined by its hatred of gays. Of course we all know what he's talking about, though I would call it not masculinity, but macho, which is a different thing as far as I'm concerned.

Masculinity isn't necessarily a bad thing. It can mean responsibility and bravery as well. Something we tend to forget in these days where being a man, we're told, means being a sexist violent homophobic pig. But some of the most masculine men I have ever known - loggers, farmers, fishermen - would never, ever, gay bash, and I even recall one of my uncles raining contempt on a kid who made anti-gay remarks. And the uncle in question was one of the toughest guys I ever met - he could pack 500 lbs through the bush all day, had run logging camps, cruised timber for months on end, and so on.

His attitude was that it didn't matter - he didn't care who you were having sex with - all he cared about is if you were reliable and had guts. If you did, you were good by him. And it had nothing to do with your sexual orientation, or even your sex ("hell of a gal", he'd say).

The basic good code of a certain brand of masculinity, as opposed to macho, is that you don't pick fights, and that you never tolerate the strong bullying the weak. Bullying, in fact, is seen as a declaration of weakness - if you were strong, you wouldn't be picking fights with weaklings, now would you? And if you were confident, you wouldn't need to prove anything, would you? Certainly you don't back down from a fight - but you don't go looking for it either.

Maybe that's a model of masculinity that is falling out of favor. I don't know. But I'm loathe to throw out masculinity - the question of what it means to be a man - entirely, because in so many men I've known it has been a force for good; something that made them stand up, be counted and take responsibility - not something that was evil.

(Macho and the model of masculinity I grew up with mix very badly. The macho guy wants posturing and expects much more build up before the fight actually occurs and maybe doesn't even expect a fight, just posturing, while the ethos I grew up with said that if someone uses "fighting words" he obviously wants a fight - and you either walk away or you give him one.)


Ian Welsh April 26, 2007 - 1:58am
( categories: Miscellany )

Bushco portrays itself as the testosterone administration, epitomized by Bush's "top gun" landing on the carrier. The US had to pop Saddam because he was picking a fight, same with Iran. OBL can be dismissed because after all, we've driven him into a spider hole somewhere. The US can't pull back in Iraq or it would be a sign of weakness. The Dems are "girlie men" who have always been weak on defense and now want to surrender instead of upping the ante. By criticizing a strong commander in chief they are acting treasonously and undermining the troops. When they are attacked themselves, they either respond weakly, just whimper, or slink away.

This played well with Joe and Jane Sixpack for awhile, until they lost a couple of their kids in the war. But the rednecks, approximately 30% of the US adult? population, are still eating it up. Bully on, George. You're making a name for yourself as real manly man, a true bad ass not to f*ck with. You sure showed Saddam, didn't you?

tjfxh April 26, 2007 - 8:17am

do with masculinity, machismo or femininity and no one has the right to stick their nose into other people's privacy. If they do violate another person's space, they'll have to be prepared for a fist rammed in their overgrown proboscis.

canuck April 26, 2007 - 8:56am

eom;-)

Gordon April 26, 2007 - 9:13am

But I'm loathe to throw out masculinity - the question of what it means to be a man - entirely, because in so many men I've known it has been a force for good; something that made them stand up, be counted and take responsibility - not something that was evil.

Have you ever known any women that were willing to stand up, be counted and take responsibility? I believe in self-confidence and security in your own identity, and since sexual identity is very much a part of that, I understand that one's own sexuality is experienced as a positive force. However, cleaving that positive force from half the human race and then writing paeans to it is not going to be good for the excluded half, and that raises the insecurity of the included (am I really masculine?) and that gets you very bad things. It always gets you macho.

nihil obstet April 26, 2007 - 9:01am

"His attitude was that it didn't matter - he didn't care who you were having sex with - all he cared about is if you were reliable and had guts. If you did, you were good by him. And it had nothing to do with your sexual orientation, or even your sex ("hell of a gal", he'd say)."

Ian Welsh April 26, 2007 - 12:24pm

If I understand correctly, he didn't talk about masculinity. You do. Did he think that "hell of a gal" embodied masculinity? I'm speaking beyond my knowledge here. Maybe he did.

The whole Republican election strategy has involved male fears of lack of masculinity. The effort to define a reified positive "masculinity" different from a negative machoism has less substance than a butterfly's wing. Any wingnut can tell you that Bush is really masculine and John Edwards, say, isn't.

nihil obstet April 26, 2007 - 1:44pm

"The effort to define a reified positive "masculinity" different from a negative machoism has less substance than a butterfly's wing."

What was that about a hurricane caused by a butterfly?

Of course you are right - he isn't the sort of guy who would use the word masculine, or masculinity. Nonetheless I understood what it meant to be an adult from him. And perhaps adult is a better word, but there is a willingness to physically fight (which also includes the knowledge of when it's better to walk away) that he would expect from a guy, and much less willingness from a woman (though not completely).

I don't know, I'm not sure you can just throw out "becoming a man" - I think it's too ingrained. Maybe you can modify it to becoming an adult, but kids coming out adolesence, out of the shadow of their parents and other adults, need some model.

Ian Welsh April 26, 2007 - 4:11pm

No, I don't think you can throw out "becoming a man". But this is a dispiriting week for egalitarians. Those of the masculine persuasion still get tribute in the workplace. The real-man/true-woman games play on in pundits' witticism on Edwards and Clinton particularly. In France, as I understand it, Segolene Royale got treated in the press as a hapless woman whenever any of the inevitable campaign missteps occurred in a way that the leading male rivals did not. The Supreme Court issued a ruling in which one of the judges (Kennedy) said that it was necessary to protect women from harming themselves. Bad time for me to start ruminating on the virtues of genderized value.

Any system that depends on falsification of reality (don't they all?) will carefully construct mental idols to call forth the idealism of its subjects. What do you think is good? This idol embodies it! It's a true virtue. The system isn't wrong. Those who fail the system have misrepresented the virtue. So you get the distinctions between good and toxic versions of the virtue.

The power of the idols is that we can't just change them anyway we want. We can't convert masculinity/femininity into "adulthood". You might or might not repress "masculine". And generally there would be among the losers of privilege lots of resentment about "political correctness". It would just produce fearless warriors who dare to embrace their masculinity. More Republicans, in other words.

I don't know what to do about it, but this week as I've said, the paeans to genderized virtue are getting me down. Besides, I can't pack but probably 20 lbs for any distance, so I'd very soon just have to admire your uncle from afar.

nihil obstet April 27, 2007 - 8:33am

...(and have no desire to move back) was that it's a whole lot easier to tell what's real. A multi-day power failure in a suburban setting can be truly frightening. Here, it's no big deal at all.

I suspect Ian's uncle wouldn't have lasted 2 weeks in a city.

Gordon April 27, 2007 - 8:49am

...was Canadian , was he not?

Gordon April 26, 2007 - 11:43am

Masculinity is a social construct and has to do with how a man is expected to behave in a society. It's heavily dependent on context. As a consequence preferred sexual practice and sexual orientation can certainly be a part it. Pretending otherwise is naive. (Of course, there's nothing that says that, for example, male homosexuality is necessarily feminine (or anti-masculine), and there are (or were) societies where homosexual practices are (or were) considered masculine. Similarly, there are plenty of homosexual men who are ultra-masculine independently of their sexual orientation.)

It's somehow both disappointing and inevitable that someone will pick a tragedy to provoke an unreasonable reaction, and spout some pet theory. This is no worse and no better than the people who talk about how gun control or ubiquitous concealed carry or whatever would have somehow ameliorated things at Virginia Tech, or Columbine.

NateTG April 26, 2007 - 2:30pm

At some point attempts to understand what happened are reasonable and not disappointing in the least, in my mind. Wars are much bigger tragedies and we spend even more time trying to figure them out.

Ian Welsh April 26, 2007 - 4:12pm

"Have you ever known any women that were willing to stand up, be counted and take responsibility?"
I married one and proud of it!
As for the other subject of M or M.
My father told me that "violence was the primitive method of settling an argument".
As for Gays; He said, "judge people for who they are, not what they are".
He is 89 years old. Old enough to be from the old school who hate everyone who is not conforming to old standards.
All I can say is "sit back and listen to everyone". You don't have to agree. You just have to listen and understand.

repressive governments mix administrative clumsiness & inefficiency with authoritarian tendencies.

kimmy April 26, 2007 - 5:56pm

Perhaps the difference is has to do with which virtues are mandatory, and which are 'extras'?

So to be masculine it is mandatory that one have the physical strength, reliability, courage, responsibility, and confidence to stand up, be counted, and not pick fights or tolerate bullies. If you can be sweet to babies and orphans, so much the better, but not necessary.

And to be feminine it is not mandatory to have these things, as nice as they might be on top of such traditionally feminine virtues as sweetness, nurturing, and sensitivity.

Seems right: you might disapprove of a woman who backs down from fights, or is irresponsible on the job, but couldn't she still count as feminine? Similarly, you might disapprove a man who doesn't care about the handicapped or orphans, but couldn't he still count as masculine?

egampel April 27, 2007 - 12:23pm

Somebody please explain to me why one's sexuality is threatening to any body unless that body is unsure of own. Am I off topic? Do men really think about their identity in terms other men's sexuality? Men have real problems.

sona April 28, 2007 - 1:26am

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.