first he wants our finest and next he will probably want control of the Great Lakes.

to take advantage of the reverse influx of American retirees from Florida to Whitehorse once the temperature gets warm enough (and enough of Florida is submerged). It's only fair, you had to deal with ours for long enough.

We're going to have to break them in gently though; up here handguns are controlled and Bingo isn't, so it may be a while before everyone makes the adjustment from shooters to dabbers.

_{"The very fundamental issue is, they don't know where the hell they're going," retired Gen. John Sheehan, rejecting war czar post}

thats what I was thinking! Our snowbirds will take of that healthcare system you have....

(see here), tell them they're headed for balmy BC, but one flush and they're in (surprise) Siberia.:-)
_{"The very fundamental issue is, they don't know where the hell they're going," retired Gen. John Sheehan, rejecting war czar post}

I want whichever country won't drain them for drinking water to have control. So far that looks more likely to be Canada (less because of any innate wonderfulness than because we have less people to keep watered.)

So yeah, Ah'm comin' for the lakes! They should be a Canadian sea!

that water ain't for watering people, it's for watering increasing saline soils in the great american welfare project known as "the West".

and rapidly deceasing lake levels[docks on land]they may drain before you can claim them ;) Personally I don't think they should divert the water and that they should just leave the Great Lakes alone.

edited to add, things are looking up

With global warming on the horizon, I believe there's no better place to be than Canada.

Hey IP :)

Folks, IP is my example!

Not true! If you get a job and you're American (or Mexican), you can come over pretty immediately. That's one of the few things NAFTA got right.

Question: Is a job offer required for immigration to Canada under the Skilled Worker/ Professional category

A job offer is not necessary if you can score 67 points or more based on:

Canada Federal Skilled Worker (Professional) immigration applications are assessed on six factors.

These selection factors are designed to indicate which applicants are likely to become economically established upon immigration to Canada.

Each Canada Federal Skilled Worker (Professional) immigration selection factor is allotted a maximum number of points, and applicants must attain at least 67 points in order to qualify for a Canada Immigration (Permanent Resident) Visa.

The selection factors may be summarized as follows:

* Education: Applicants are awarded up to 25 points. (A one-year university degree at the Bachelor's level AND at least 13 years of full-time or full-time equivalent study=15 points or a one-year diploma, trade certificate or apprenticeship AND at least 13 years of full-time or full-time equivalent study)

* Language Skills: Applicants are awarded up to 24 points. (21 for most Americans)

* Experience: Applicants are awarded up to 21 points. (4 years experience = 21 points)

* Age: Applicants are awarded up to 10 points. (21 years to 49 years=10 points)

* Pre- Arranged Employment: Applicants are awarded up to 10 points.

* Adaptability: Applicants are awarded up to 10 points. (Spouse's or common-law partner's education=3-5 points)

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There is no green card to work in Canada, but there is something similar and the Department of Labour would issue a Social Insurance Number (SIN) if you have the qualifications under the skilled worker/professional category.

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Don't have those qualifications...then look to the Province of Alberta that desperately needs workers in many categories!

_{"The very fundamental issue is, they don't know where the hell they're going," retired Gen. John Sheehan, rejecting war czar post}

The Provincial Nominee Program Alberta’s requirements are the most general. Forget the one that states, “The employer must demonstrate that the position cannot be filled by Canadian residents” If you sent an application and were offered a job, it would be because you were the most qualified. Applications are based on qualifications not on nationality.

Not listed at the site was Ontario’s Theirs currently is in the Pilot stage A list of Skilled workers

Nymole, take the test again Skilled worker assessment

You must have funds to support yourself for six months if you don’t have a job officer.

I managed to score 67 and put over 53 as your age. Based on the following:

a diploma or trade certificate of more than two years with 14 years experience (20 points),

high proficiency in English with no second language skills (16 points)

fit one of the NOC categories with 4 years experience (21 points),

with arranged employment (10 points).

It isn't that I couldn't pass the test (I can, just), but I would not be working in Canada

I even have some second-language skills(French though only moderate), but am retired from IT because of cognitive multitasking issues.

Unfortunately other than skilled worker, I also don't qualify as a moneybags who doesn't have to be a skilled worker or a a self-employed person able to make a major contribution in the arts.

I would of course be heading for the milder BC area, before it goes under water:-)

I don't resent countries' trying to keep out older people who have not contributed to their health plan. I regret countries not having transferable health insurance.(such as exists between England and Ireland)

If things get really impossible, other than damp Ireland (where I am a citizen as a result of both parents being born in Ireland but would not qualify for medical help under 70 as I have not been a resident), there is always the ever more expensive Costa Rica, where the overflow from Florida seems to be settling,(and where they will sell you health care for 1,000 a year)

For England I would have to show I have 33,000 pounds(!) a year to qualify as a "no objection you have money" immigrant - That is where I lived two years as a student and one as a worker (and even have some NHS stamps) and where I always thought I would retire.I comfort myself with the reality that The NHS sucks and the next government is likely to be conservative in any case.

There is also always France, famous for being so amiable:-) or the Brit ex-pat colony in Spain, or staying put- the most likely outcome.

_{"The very fundamental issue is, they don't know where the hell they're going," retired Gen. John Sheehan, rejecting war czar post}

in Canada without returning to the United States for a period of six months.

It pays to check your policy Blue Cross taken out in Canada covers travel to foreign countries.

US travel insurance for an American citizen taken out in the United States. $3.75/day That premium is for someone over 65 but under 71 years of age, with a $1,000 deductible. Total for 180 days = $675/year.

We have similar insurance when we travel to the United States, but elected to make ours for frequent ten day trips. When Haydn turned 71, the cost doubled from the previous insurance we had for 17 day trips. Cost for the two of us now is $185.00/year for the frequent 10 day trips. Our Ontario health insurance does cover us while in the States, but it pays the fees based on Canadian standards, so that is why we take out extra insurance. Millions of Canadians are snowbirds and have similar insurance coverage.

There are things about BC you should be aware of. Although the weather is mild, it rains a lot--very similar to British weather, which I find depressing. And it really isn't that much warmer in BC than it is in other southern Canadian latitudes and there is so much to see and enjoy in the other provinces. If you drive here from New York, it's less than 900 miles and you get to have the use of your car without having to rent one. All you have to do is call your insurance agent and make sure there is an endorsement added for it while out of the Country. For us, that is no cost.

We keep our RV in North Caroline and it's put in storage when we aren't using it. The cost of storage is $37/month, making trips to southern climes very affordable. If money is a factor, you might think about buying an RV and doing something similar. Storage is cheap and there are lots of beautiful RV's second-hand on the market--trailers are even more affordable and have more space than RV's. Canada is peppered generously with beautiful parks in every province. Private parks would be your best bet for long-term stays.

when you don't drive(!) and have cats, but thanks for the insurance (partly paid by old employer and therefore non-expandable, alas) info and the encouragement. I travel a lot out of the country when
I can. I find staying in a country is very different when you are not a citizen and I haven't felt at home as an American citizen in a long time:-)

_{"The very fundamental issue is, they don't know where the hell they're going," retired Gen. John Sheehan, rejecting war czar post}

'Cause if they don't, I can't stay.

_{Regime Change begins at home.}

when you get it at the liquor store?

JACK DANIEL'S SOUR MASH, LCBO 41384 | 750 mL bottle

Price: $ 28.45

Value Added Promotion:

750 mL bottle comes with FREE Playing Cards until Apr 28, 2007 or while supplies last!

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Hurry up, the deal ends soon to get a deck of cards. Caveat: Be prepared for sticker shock when buying from our liquor stores! L0L And you cannot stock up...there are liquor limits on what you can bring with you--one bottle is the max, so bring a BIG one, but you'll have to decide on one of these:

1.5 litres (53 imperial ounces) of wine;
1.14 litres (40 ounces) of liquor;
a total of 1.14 litres (40 ounces) of wine and liquor; or
24 x 355 millilitre (12 ounces) cans or bottles (maximum of 8.5 litres) of beer or ale.

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It physically hurts to see it poured down the sink, but if you have a nice Canadian immigration officer, he might let you drink some of while you're getting rid of it.

Of course I meant imported for sale in Canada. I know way better than to carry hooch in my car traveling either way :)

_{Regime Change begins at home.}

1700: "Abolish slavery!"
1800: Woman's Suffrage!"
2007:"World Peace!"

send me an e-mail and tell me when you're coming and I'll have refreshments for you. I live in Grand Bend, Ontario by the way if that's the area that you'll be visiting. It would be very happy to meet with you.

Canada has a miserable record for black immigration.

I'm not a black, so I really can't put myself in your shoes. When I was going to school, there was only ONE black family in the school and to me they were an oddity. I have absolutely no friends that are black and I don't know any blacks--there are none in my community.

But it wouldn't bother me if you were black, pink, yellow, red, green or polkadotted, you're welcome to move next door to me. I would understand if you decided to move to a place like Toronto that has a larger black population. To my knowledge there is no discrimination, but how would I really know?

Like you, I'm used to being underpaid and not getting the best job, because I'm a woman--so I do have some idea of the anger and frustration a minority group experiences (not that women are a minority but I am very familiar with inequality! L0L)

Perhaps the person you should be talking to is a Canadian black that would have a better handle on whether Canadians are racists twits! I like to think we aren't, but I could be wrong.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, perhaps another Canadian agonist will. My welcome mat is extended to you and your family. Will that be beer, liquor, wine or coffee that I should get for you?

Where are these gay hunks? I haven't seen any of them either, nor is it my business even if they were. That and religion are private affairs.

It all depends. I saw hardly any blacks out west, however in Toronto there are tons. They are not, however, American blacks.

We stopped our slave trade before the US, and were the end of the underground railway. It's not considered an issue in Canada, because there were so few slaves even when we had slaves, and thus there isn't a population descended from them.

In terms of blacks in Canada; one of my best friends is married to a black woman. His comment, travelling in the US and Canada, is that no one in Toronto seems to particularly notice or care; but in the US they both always know they are an interracial couple.

Canadians are more liberal than Americans by far, but we have are own conservative problems, exacerbated by the fact that we have 4 major parties and a first past the post system, so the Conservatives are currently in charge. However, while they're scum, they aren't Bush level scum.

the settlements that black slaves made is well documented.

Perhaps this gentleman would be interested in reading about them? As you say there weren't that many that came.

But I do have a suspicion that the Canadian government didn't encourage their immigration. Why else wouldn't they have come? Everyone else did. Chinese and oriental labourers helped to build the railroad, but there wasn't an equal representation of blacks?

Hmmm...look what Google turned up!

It wasn’t until 1962 that Canada dropped its racist immigration policies.

If it’s any consolation to this gentleman, I know that my grandmother and some of the members of her family were discriminated against and she was from Britain. She told me there were places that had signs, “No English need apply.”

We’re not as egalitarian as you think we are!

Canada encouraged white immigration. Chinese came as indentured laborers.

No consolation at all. Discrimination sucks. Period.

and I can tell you that if you learn French well, you'd be quite happy in and around Montreal. I think it's the most cosmopolitan city on the continent. Matheiu, if he were ever to post here again, would probably confirm that the society there is very accepting of people of any nationality and culture. But crank up your French first!

_{Regime Change begins at home.}

...is the nicest city in N America. And as long as you begin every exchange with "en englais, s'il vous plait", they are friendly, polite and helpful. But do *not* forget the magic words. I met up there with some Dutch friends. The wife spoke only english (heavily accented) and dutch. She did not have an easy time. Her husband, though fluent in french, had to use english (after the magic words) because canadian french is so different (it's almost 18th century french).

_{Regime Change begins at home.}

When the French watch a French-Canadian movie, they use subtitles. The Quebecois French has evolved into a language of its own, almost.

It's a beautiful place to live. Not as expensive as Toronto and Vancouver. Low crime rate. Lots of winter and summer festivals. Cross country and downhill skiing in the Gatineau Hills nearby. Access to numerous lakes. The Museum of Civilization and the National Art Gallery are architectural gems etc, etc.......

good for you but everyone secretly wishes they could afford somewhere else:-)

_{"The very fundamental issue is, they don't know where the hell they're going," retired Gen. John Sheehan, rejecting war czar post}

Lived in Ottawa for a number of years. Hated the place, I must admit. Too hot in the summer, too cold in the winter (or it was, I understand the canal doesn't even ice over any more.) Filled with civil servants who hate their jobs and everyone else.

But I had a lousy time in Ottawa, so I'm probably biased. Certainly there are plenty of people who love it.

(when they're speaking to each other on cellphones) in New York and Boston-

they do a lot of patois so you can't get everything even if you're fluent but for the really basic stuff you can kind of get by.

Everywhere I've been that's French speaking (as opposed to Italian, say), there's a polite test- they address you, or you address them first in French even though it seems obvious that
you don't look like you are local, and then when you say how little French you really know, they change over to excellent English
(especially in stores in the south of France with lots of tourists).

I kind of like it as a custom.

_{"The very fundamental issue is, they don't know where the hell they're going," retired Gen. John Sheehan, rejecting war czar post}

is still icing over. At least, it was frozen when I skated on it this winter. And the Beavertails were yummy!

I'm pretty sure it hasn't iced over for a number of winterludes. whcih used to be unheard of.

was the name of a humorous skit put on by the Canadian comedy show "Royal Air Farce" immediately after Bush was elected a 2nd time. At the time, many frustrated Americans were openly musing, with amusement, about emigrating to Canada. Maybe this was not such a joke after all.

As I have. Let's again look at what we are talking about here. An egregious loss of liberty and freedom that causes one to emigrate to another country - FROM THE UNITED STATES. Everyone should stop and think about that for minute. Look at what we are seriously discussing! Another possible decision - freedom or death/freedom or flee.

...some Republican use the "you have no civil rights when you're dead" canard in New Hampshire, where the license plates read "Live Free Or Die". Nope, no cognitive dissonance here.

If you're willing to learn French, and you want a cosmopolitan atmosphere, I'd go to Montreal - it's also cheap, cheap, cheap. Both Toronto and Vancouver are very expensive. If you want the Lower Mainland climate, I'd look into some place on Vancouver Island - they aren't cheap, but cheaper than Vancouver.

As rural places go, I really can't say.