Two Worlds...


The West in general, and America in specific live in a world where different facts are emphasized than the ones Muslims see.

We think the Lebanon mess was started by Hezbollah - they think that Israel regularly raided across the border as well, and it was just part of a routine tit-for-tat that Israel chose to use to start a war they'd been planning for years.

In Palestine we think it started with Hamas kidnapping an Israeli soldier, they think it started with Israel shelling a beach and killing a family.

We think that you never negotiate with terrorists. They know that Israel has negotiated prisoner exchanges with Hezbollah before.

We think Iran and Syria are making things worse by supplying Hezbollah with military equiptment. They think the US is making things worse by supplying Israel with its military equiptment.

We think there is a need for a Jewish state because of what happened during the Holocaust. They wonder why if Germans tried to commit genocide against the Jews, it's Muslims who had to give up their land.

We think the UN resolution saying Hezbollah must be disarmed should be enforced. They wonder why the UN resolution giving Palestinians the right of return isn't enforced...

We think that we want Democracy in the Middle East. They notice that when elections produce results we don't like, such as Hamas winning, we punish the population for voting the wrong way.

We think we stand for human rights. They think we torture when we feel like it, just like their leaders do.

We think we value human lives. They think Madeline Albright was quite serious when she said that half a million Iraqi children dying was acceptable to keep Saddamn Hussein in check - but when 2,000 Americans died we freaked out and therefore we really only think our lives matter, not theirs.


Ian Welsh July 27, 2006 - 12:43pm

They wonder why if Germans tried to commit genocide against the Jews, it's Muslims who had to give up their land.

The usual Israeli rebuttal is that: a) they paid for much of the land to the rightful landowners anyways b) several hundred thousand Jews were expelled from North Africa and such after Israel was set-up. I am not a scholar, so myself I am ignorant.

lpetrazickis July 27, 2006 - 4:27pm

Ian,
I came across this list of Hezbollah/Palestinian incursions into Israel.

LINK

However, I haven't found a resource that attempts to catalog Israeli incursions into lebanon since 2000.

any ideas?

JRose July 27, 2006 - 7:48pm

Whose 'Moral Clarity'?

By Robert Parry
July 27, 2006

George W. Bush is polishing up his “moral clarity” argument as he and his chief diplomat, Condoleezza Rice, signal to the Israelis that they should press ahead in crushing “terrorist” organizations like Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Gaza.

Yet if there is any place in the world that lacks “moral clarity,” it is the Middle East – which is why Bush’s vision of the region has proved so dangerous. Rather than perceiving shades of gray and finding areas of compromise, Bush insists that everything is black and white – and thus justifies the use of overwhelming force to destroy evil wherever Bush sees it.

But even on issues where U.S. government officials and leading pundits speak in unison – denouncing “terrorist” groups like Hezbollah, for instance – there is far more ambiguity than Americans are being told.

Take, for instance, the widespread agreement that Hezbollah earned the opprobrium as “terrorist” because one of its suicide bombers destroyed the U.S. Marine barracks in 1983 killing 241 American servicemen in Beirut.

While this incident is routinely cited as the indisputable evidence that Hezbollah is an evil “terrorist” organization, the reality is much murkier. Indeed, under any objective definition of “terrorism,” the Beirut bombing would not qualify as a “terrorist” act.

“Terrorism” is classically defined as violence against civilians to achieve a political goal. In the case of the Marines, however, their status had changed from an original peacekeeping mission in the midst of Lebanon’s civil war into the role of combatant as the Reagan administration allowed “mission creep” to affect the assignment.

Heeding the advice of then-national security adviser Robert McFarlane, President Ronald Reagan authorized the USS New Jersey to fire long-distance shells into Muslim villages in the Bekaa Valley, killing civilians and convincing Shiite militants that the United States had joined the conflict.

On Oct. 23, 1983, Shiite militants struck back, sending a suicide truck bomber through U.S. security positions and demolishing the high-rise Marine barracks. “When the shells started falling on the Shiites, they assumed the American ‘referee’ had taken sides,” Gen. Colin Powell wrote about the incident in his memoirs, My American Journey.

In other words, even Colin Powell, who was then military adviser to Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger, recognized that the U.S. military intervention had altered the status of the Marines in the eyes of the Shiites.

False History

Yet, more than two decades later, senior U.S. officials continue to cite the Beirut bombing as Exhibit A on a list of past “terrorist” incidents that didn’t elicit a sufficiently harsh U.S. retaliation.

“Over the last several decades, Americans have seen how the terrorists pursue their objectives,” Vice President Dick Cheney said in a March 6, 2006, speech to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). “Simply stated, they would hit us, but we would not hit back hard enough. In Beirut in 1983, terrorists killed 241 Americans, and afterward U.S. forces withdrew from Beirut.”

But, in reality, the tit-for-tat violence in Beirut continued. Then-CIA director William Casey ordered secret counterterrorism operations against Islamic radicals. As retaliation, the Shiites targeted more Americans. Another bomb destroyed the U.S. Embassy and killed most of the CIA station.

Casey dispatched veteran CIA officer William Buckley to fill the void. But on March 14, 1984, Buckley was spirited off the streets of Beirut to face torture and death.

In 1985, Casey targeted Hezbollah leader Sheikh Fadlallah in an operation that included hiring operatives who detonated a car bomb outside the Beirut apartment building where Fadlallah lived.

As described by Bob Woodward in Veil, “the car exploded, killing 80 people and wounding 200, leaving devastation, fires and collapsed buildings. Anyone who had happened to be in the immediate neighborhood was killed, hurt or terrorized, but Fadlallah escaped without injury. His followers strung a huge ‘Made in the USA’ banner in front of a building that had been blown out.”

more

Tina July 27, 2006 - 9:14pm

When it was a cowardly act of terror carried out by a group of militant Palestian Jews, the Irgun, historically known as the King David Hotel Bombing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

Read it and weep.

johnnyyenagain July 28, 2006 - 10:07pm

...history beyond Irgun or various of the radical Islamist groups. The first recorded suicide bombing in the west dates to the end of the 1800's, and the first "car" (actually a horse drawn carriage) bomb dates to the 1920's. Terror has a long history.

"We declared war on terror, it's not even a noun, so, good luck. After we defeat it, I'm sure we'll take on that bastard ennui." - Jon Stewart.

JustPlainDave July 28, 2006 - 10:22pm

Well said, myself, I'd define terrorism as much more than using bombs, and say it's about as old as warfare. But either way, clearly, neither the Israelis nor Islamic groups invented it, though both have practiced.

Ian Welsh July 29, 2006 - 12:22am

"If we punish a person who killed an American soldier, who is an occupier, we should punish the American soldiers who killed an Iraqi who fought against occupation. In my view, a person who killed Americans in defense of his country, in other countries, they would build a statue to him."

-- Iraqi parliament Speaker Mahmoud al-Mashhandani, July 22, 2006

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=49917

stunster July 28, 2006 - 11:01pm

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