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Fascinating.


Here's a link to a DKos diary entitled "Impeachment: you think the world is not watching?" in which Frenchman Jerome a Paris pushes a button by stating "the world will find it unacceptable for America not to impeach Bush" - and inadvertently exposes an issue we discussed previously: the idea that the American political debate has been forever changed by shifting it into a venue that includes non-Americans. One classic statement made by dysfunctional/alcoholic/abusive parents to their children is "never tell anyone what goes on in this family". Some dysfunctions can only thrive behind closed doors; when revealed and exposed as indefensible, they force re-evaluation and change.

The debate is fascinating as it illuminates faultlines between "netroots as Dem political phenomenon" and "netroots as broadbased accountability movement". I find it unsurprising that kos, who frames from the "Dem political phenomenon" POV, is on the defensive and in the minority. I don't think Kos yet has a clear idea of what he's built and unleashed either.

Impeachment: you think the world is not watching?
by Jerome a Paris
Thu Dec 07, 2006 at 12:02:51 PM PST

So it's not politically convenient to try to impeach?

So there will be no price paid for being the worst president ever, apart for the promise of the judgement of history?

So Democrats also think it's okay to go invade another country, to get several hundred thousand of its inhabitants killed, to proudly practice and promote torture around the world, to tear up the Geneva Conventions and a whole load of international treaties, and to go grab random foreigners around the world to put them in Guantanamo and throw away the key?

So not only was Bush reelected with a real majority, but the opposition essentially says that what he did is not so profoundly illegal that it deserves to be duly sanctioned?

Way to go.

The world is watching. And it will not forget...

Excuse my harping on about this, but I think history will view this last few years as a watershed in American political debate.

Jerome is indeed correct, if not in the way he intended; the world is apparently indeed watching, and expressing itself in realtime.


Escher Sketch December 7, 2006 - 6:35pm
Escher Sketch's diary | printer friendly version | digg

Watch and express away.

Parliamentary governments have the "no confidence" vote to force new elections on an unpopular party and/or leader. The U.S. system instead calls for regular elections of its Executive and its Legislature, and instead of "no confidence" has an impeachment/removal process that is difficult and extremely painful.

The process worked the way it was intended to with Nixon, as his crimes and misdemeanors eventually convinced enough legislators of his own party to carry the day for impeachment and conviction. The impeachment proceedings against Clinton were born of purely partisan hatred and a strictly party-line vote prevented the articles from passing.

The creatures elected to the House and Senate seem to be sadly disconnected from the will of their constituents. It has probably been thus for a very long time, but it seems to have hardened since the Baby Boomers took power.



"If you can’t trust a Methodist with absolute power to arrest people and
not have to say why, then whom can you trust?" - Garrison Keillor

Rick December 7, 2006 - 11:50pm
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Baby boomers? More like normalized corruption.

The real problem with America's government is that Republicans and corporatists of both parties have turned corruption into a requirement of office. If you don't take bribes from corporate lobbyists, you can't get re-elected. But once you take the money, they've got you forever, just like the Mafia.

Today it looks like all the Republicans and most Democrats have taken the dirty corporate money, and so the corporate machine owns their souls. That's why we can win an election, then days later watch our new heroes make noises like they're not really going after the worst president ever and his band of crooks.

Of course, maybe it's not that bad. Maybe Pelosi and company are merely playing their hand close to the vest, waiting for various hearings to start revealing the enormous, drooling parasite of corruption that mad King George attached to the blood cow we call America.

We will know our fate within the first few days of Democrats taking over the House and Senate. If our recently elected Democratic majorities fail to act promptly to clean up the messes created by Republicans, fake Democrats and BushCo, we the voters will not be amused.

"Death before being dishonored any more." - Col. Ted Westhusing

Jimbo92107 December 8, 2006 - 1:18am
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And the electorate has no role in this?

Seems to me that it's about more than just "dirty corporate" money owning the souls of elected representatives.

"We declared war on terror, it's not even a noun, so, good luck. After we defeat it, I'm sure we'll take on that bastard ennui." - Jon Stewart.

JustPlainDave December 8, 2006 - 8:46am
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Although I do have opinions on impeachment too,

my interest in pointing this thread out is more in the meta-implications - the effect upon hitherto internal debate when conducted in an international forum instead.

Escher Sketch December 8, 2006 - 2:27am
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Time will tell whether American...

...exceptionalism will survive a multipolar networked age. I'm guessing it's going to take a hell of a beating, at a minimum...

What's the information operations equivalent of the Atlantic (and to a lesser extent the Pacific), anyway?

"We declared war on terror, it's not even a noun, so, good luck. After we defeat it, I'm sure we'll take on that bastard ennui." - Jon Stewart.

JustPlainDave December 8, 2006 - 8:49am
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why do you say

Kos has no idea of what was built and unleashed. do you mean the rise of the netroots. probably not. probably still sees it as a small community of like minded people struggling to be taken seriously.
But, on the other hand, he must know some of it is taken seriously the way the righties now lump him in with Kennedy, moore and all the demons of the left.
The righties are jealous of the left blogs.
As for the war, I have mused on other posts about what happens when it all finally collapses. Which will be very soon. George will go into a permanent fantasyland and someone will have to run things. Pelosi is just coming in and no one trust Cheney. So, what happens.

vwcat December 8, 2006 - 1:55am
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I think Kos sees it as essentially

a grass-roots Democratic Party mobilization, whereas I believe that doesn't accurately characterize the breadth of the vein of discontent he's tapped into.

Escher Sketch December 8, 2006 - 2:22am
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Dear Escher Sketch: Thank

Dear Escher Sketch:

Thank You, this is something I have been thinking about a lot too. I very much hope that the netroots can be more than just a 'Democratic Party' medium, but instead be used to articulate a lot of viewpoints and ideas that currently have absolutely no purchase in the media mainstream. The broadbased, gloabl kind of thing you are theorizing about will be great if it is really happening.

Our virtues are usually only vices in disguise.

Aaron Dellutri December 8, 2006 - 10:16am
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Why doesn't the United States

have such a thing as a non-confidence motion? That way empeachment would not be necessary...the bums would just be tossed out of office and a new election held. And please tell why your elections don't have controls on its financing?

Pelosi did come up with some ideas about reducing the power of lobbyists? Whatever happened to that legislation? Corporations and big business currently runs the United States and not your legislators. The lobbyist industry owns several of your legislators.

canuck December 8, 2006 - 2:01pm
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I don't know.

Why doesn't Canada have a proper recall mechanism for politicians like David Emerson? BC has one but only for provincial pols, and it's so completely stupidly written that it's never once succeeded (assuming you define "success" from the POV of the citizens launching the recall, rather than that of the politicians who gave the public a phony action button to waste their energy pressing).

Escher Sketch December 8, 2006 - 2:58pm
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Wasn't lobbying reform part of

the first 100 hours that the Democrats were talking about for the new Congress in January? We can only hope so.

Flyer Anne December 8, 2006 - 5:35pm
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