A Lesser Species - Part III


From a Partnership to a Dominator culture

Part I provided a brief discussion regarding the origin of the downfall of women. This issue will be described in greater detail, focusing on the digression of female status in society that will provide context necessary to understand the visual and verbal content of contemporary Pornography. I will also explain how the ongoing subordinate status of women contributes to the multiple crises facing the world today. In conclusion, I will offer suggestions for a new paradigm - one that leads to improved relations between men and women, a peaceful society, that may yet save our planet.

Due to the wealth of information, I was obliged to divide this essay into two parts. Pornography and the Conclusion therefore, will be covered in "A Lesser Species – Part IV"

Part I can be read here
Part II can be read here

Continue reading after the jump

If you are a male and you are sitting unaccompanied at your computer screen, then take a gander at the image on your right. This is the Venus of Willendorf. Stay focused on her for a while. Do you begin to feel a pleasurable engorgement of a certain part in your loin region? No? I didn’t think you would. Yet some archaeologists, whose genders were determined by the XY chromosome, insist that, despite ample evidence to the contrary, this image is pornographic. Such is the desperation of the dominant culture to prove, against credible and convincing data that indicate otherwise, that the current androcentric structure of society has always been and that it is normal, or, that ‘this is just the way things are’. As a result, it has been suggested that, in future, all archaeological interpretations be carried out jointly by men and women in order to arrive at a reasonable and fair conclusion. To make it even more interesting, lesbian archaeologists also wish to add their unique perspective to the mix. In “The archaeology of woman-woman bonds”, for example, Gabriele Meixner explains that physical bonds between women are as old as human history itself.

Nevertheless, the message imparted by Paleolithic art is that human’s first instinct was to worship a Goddess, as is evident from the statues and cave paintings that have been discovered over the ages. The most famous statue, Venus of Willendorf, represents one of many commonly referred to as the Venus figurines. In most of these statues, the abdomen, breasts, hips, thighs and vulvas are exaggerated while the arms and feet are absent. The heads are small and the faces show no detail. The age of the figurines covers a time span from 27,000 years ago, to 20,000 years ago. From a historical perspective the Venus figurines, and their off shoots, occupy a large expanse of time within human history. The idea of a fertility goddess or mother goddess is found through out most (if not all) cultures of the world.

The immovable art of the Paleolithic era consists of cave paintings some of which lie scattered over a large area of Europe and date back to more than 30.000 years ago. The ancient artists used flints to carve into the rock and utilized other techniques to create their images. For example, use of stump drawing in order to shade the inside of the bodies and provide relief. They also used the main two colors (red and black), fine and deep engraving, finger tracing and stenciling. There is no evidence to suggest that the artists were always male and that only adolescent boys entered the caves as this testosterone-biased archaeologist claims. Since children’s foot prints and hand imprints of very young children were also found it is more likely that the production of cave art was a family activity. In fact, caves were considered sacred sanctuaries judging from the images painted on the walls - it was sacred art, and woman's body and sex were a central motif of the sacred imagery which reflected the life-generating sexual power of women. The image of a vulva is repeated in many caves. Such vulval prehistoric images represent, it is thought, humankind’s first use of symbolism. They are also the oldest view of the vagina. And this primal perspective depicts female genitalia as a symbol of fertility, of the power of creation, of hope for the future, and of a belief that despite disease and death, new life will always come forth – from the female(V pg, 20). The pregnant female is similarly a recurring theme in Paleolithic art. In Cosquer, a painted cave near Marseilles, for example, one of the walls shows the posture of a woman that suggests she may be squatting in childbirth.

Awe and respect for nature’s life giving forces are also evident in how the artists depicted large animals. Geologist Norbert Aujoulat postulates that the triad of “horse-aurochs-stag” links the fertility cycles of important, and perhaps sacred or symbolic, animals to the cosmic cycles, suggesting a great metaphor about creation. Riane Eisler, the author of “Sacred Pleasure”, believes that images such as these would indicate that Paleolithic peoples recognized that both women’s and men’s sexuality played an important part in the great cyclic drama of birth, sex, death, and rebirth. A cave in the French Pyrenees, dating back to 20,000 B.C.E., has an image of a phallus inside a vagina that has a religious as well as a procreative association (Eisler, pg, 61). Also, the fact that many Paleolithic scenes show animals in female-male pairs in conjunction with young plants that reflect the birth of new life in the spring lends further support to Eisler’s assertion that Paleolithic society was aware of paternity. Nevertheless, the preponderance of images that express female sexuality as sacred indicates that the Paleolithic as well as the later Neolithic woman was revered and held in high regard. Furthermore, the absence of battle scenes, weapons, rape and bondage scenes of nude females as well as the nonexistence of depictions of any kind of violence also suggest that the Paleolithic and Neolithic societies consisted of a cooperative, or, using Eisler’s preferred term, a ‘partnership’ rather than a ‘dominator’ culture.

What emerges is an image of Paleolithic artists transmitting their techniques from generation to generation for twenty-five millennia with almost no innovation or revolt. A profound conservatism in art, Curtis notes, is one of the hallmarks of a “classical civilization.” For the conventions of cave painting to have endured four times as long as recorded history, the culture it served, he concludes, must have been “deeply satisfying”—and stable to a degree it is hard for modern humans to imagine. Source

Incidentally, stone carvings connecting the vulva with fecundity can also be found in other more modern societies in North and South America. Ethnographic evidence couples carvings by native Indians with human fertility rites and the concept of ‘Mother Nature’ (V pg, 43). Alas, foreign invaders (you know who they are) massacred most of their erstwhile peaceful societies and then proceeded to call themselves ‘civilized’.

Following are a few more revealing observations from Eisler about our ancient ancestors.

The people of the Paleolithic understood a great deal more than we might think about the biological processes involved in procreation as is supported by their extraordinary system of time-sequenced calculations. Most significantly these include a highly sophisticated lunar calendar with extensive notations on the many phases of the moon which also seem to have been related to women’s menstrual cycles.

There is a remarkable continuity of religious imagery from the Paleolithic to the Neolithic. Here too we find female figures representing the life-giving and sustaining powers of the universe. And here too we find the coupling of the female and male principles.

One of the most fascinating Neolithic works of art excavated at Catal Huyuk, Turkey is a carved relief of a woman and a man embracing and, next to them, the woman with a child in her arms. This may be one of the earliest representations of the hieros gamos, the ‘sacred marriage’. This frieze also represents something akin to what we might today call a lesson in sex education, demonstrating that our Neolithic ancestors understood the connection between sexual intercourse and birth (Eisler, pg, 62).

Incidentally, archaeologists assert that this 6000 year old farmhouse discovered in a Scottish field suggests that Neolithic people were engineers as skilled as our own.

From cave art and the numerous Venus figurines we can thus deduce that in prehistory the vagina was venerated, looked up as a symbol of fertility and a means of averting evil. The belief in the power of female genitalia is found in many cultures and mythologies (V pg, 5). Out of this awe evolved the practice of deliberately flashing the vagina which served a dual purpose – one was to promote fertility, the other was to ward off evil. Occasionally, it might also be used to create laughter in order to dispel a somber mood or static state. As strange as it may seem, the fairy tale of Snow White is suggested to have arisen from an ancient Italian ritual designed to enhance the fecundity of earth itself. A beautiful, noble girl would be sent down a mine which was running low in iron ore in order to expose Mother Earth to her vital female energy or essence (V, pg, 11). Conversely, in his essay “The Bravery of Women”, Roman historian Plutarch describes how Persian women averted a war by exposing their vulvas to the enemy who, as a result, retreated in haste. The historian Herodotus, on his travels to ancient Egypt, attended the Bubastis festival where he witnessed women playfully throwing their clothes over their heads. Women from the Kom and Bakweri tribes in West Cameroon still expose their vulvas today in response to derogatory remarks about female genitalia. It is possibly a quick and effective way of saying: “Respect, remember where you come from” (V, pg, 17). Finally, imagine having a festival in the current U.S. that included a joyful ‘clitoris dance’ to celebrate earth’s bounty as was a tradition in the ancient Marquesan harvest festivals. Evidently, our ancestors were capable of appreciating both aspects of female sexuality - procreation and pleasure. Unfortunately, their awareness of the clitoris is not matched by our society which, as author Joanna Briscoe explains, remains stunningly vaginally ill-informed.

Then there is a divine feminine image called Sheila-na-Gig, the Goddess of fertility in British-Celtic mythology - vulvas were carved on stone thresholds at sacred sites in her honor. Worshippers reverently touched the carving of her yawning vulva when entering the temple for worship( V, pg, 18). The Christian clerics must have fainted the first time their eyes fell on these.

The extensive reading I undertook for this essay has led to a revision of what triggered the downfall of women that I discussed in Part 1. If paternity was known to the Paleolithic and Neolithic peoples, and agriculture first began to be systematically used in the Neolithic era, it stands to reason that the transformation from a partnership to a dominator culture, that began approximately 4000 B.C.E., did not come about as a result of a sudden awareness of paternity and the discovery of agriculture. Indeed, the change did not originate within these civilizations as the theories of geologist James DeMeo and archaeologist Marija Gimbutas demonstrate. On the contrary, the uprooting of these peaceful societies occurred during a time of chaos caused by dramatic climate changes that led to massive migrations across the Eurasian continent. Already in the 1940s, the European prehistorian V. Gordon Childe remarked on the archaeological evidence of a dramatic prehistoric shift, which he termed “the Late Neolithic Crisis” (Eisler, pg, 88) that was later corroborated by geographer, DeMeo. It is during this period that the Indo-Europeans first appeared on the scene.

By far the most detailed documentation of this process is provided by Gimbutas, drawing from her own extensive excavations and the work of many other Indo-European specialists and archaeologists. Gimbutas calls the proto-Indo-European intruders Kurgans – she charts three waves of Kurgan incursions into Europe: the first wave at approximately 4300-4200 B.C.E., the second at approximately 3400-3200 B.C.E., and the third (and most devastating) at around 3000-2800 B.C.E. (Eisler, pg, 89).

Gimbutas’ Kurgan Theory challenges the doctrine of universal male dominance that has functioned as the origin story of Western civilization.

This article: “Inferring Prehistory from Language Genealogy”, discusses Gimbutas’ as well as two opposing theories and determines that The Gimbutas Theory fits the facts like a glove (scroll down to “In search of the Indo-Europeans”).

So who were these Kurgan people that overpowered our peaceful ancestors and created so much havoc? Reading this account of the Kurgan way of life and their belief system was bone-chilling. A central theme in the art of the Kurgans (as of later Indo-Europeans) was the deification of the power to dominate and destroy (Eisler, pg, 89-90). Not only did the Kurgans introduce violence but they brought with them the institution of slavery as well. The first humans to be enslaved were women, a practice that remains one of the hallmarks of our current, modern ‘civilized’ society.

Although Gimbutas does not speculate on the origin of the Kurgans it definitely was a question that occupied my mind. While DeMeo provided an answer, his interpretation of events still left me in a state of puzzlement. On the topic of dominator origins, DeMeo suggests that:

The primary focus for subsistence in most pastoralist economies is on domesticating animals from babyhood to adulthood in order to eventually kill them for food. This would also help explain the psychological armoring (or deadening of “soft” emotions) that characterized the origins of patrist or dominator societies (Eisler, pg, 96).

Add to this the fact that the system of nomadic pastoralism depletes the earth leading to arid and inhospitable environments that requires engaging neighboring herdsman in a battle for new land.

DeMeo further proposes that:

The making of patrist or dominator social institutions was the outcome of traumatic experiences and practices that evolved during severe climatic and environmental changes. Once established, these patterns of social and sexual organization were exported into more fertile regions ….. and he repeatedly brings out how the institutionalized distortion of human sexuality – particularly severe and cruel controls over female sexuality – have been primarily mechanisms for the maintenance of dominator societies (Eisler, pg, 93)

DeMeo believes there were actually two homelands from whence came the first known dominator or androcentric societies. The first is, in what is today the Arabian Desert; the second is very close to where Gimbutas places the Kurgan homeland in Eurasia (pg, 92).

It is in those areas that were rich in vegetation where the prehistoric, peaceful and egalitarian societies lived and thrived. But with the tragic turn of events, our ancestors where eventually conquered by the violent pastoralist Kurgans who, as Gimbutas notes, used domesticated horses as their vehicle of transportation to overrun Old Europe (Eisler, pg, 92). However, some managed to escape to caves and islands where they continued to live with their own traditions. One of these egalitarian civilizations inhabited the Greek island of Crete - these were the Minoans (more on the Minoans later). Others fled to Etruria across the Adriatic Sea from Greece. Peaceful egalitarian populations also existed on the islands of Melos and Samos that were eventually devastated by the Athenians which viewed them as a threat to their rule of the Mediterranean. The Celts, who came out of the Caucasus into Europe as early as 2000 B.C.E managed, despite their pastoral way of life, to maintain equality between men and women. I suspect that their brilliance in warfare originally grew out of the necessity to defend themselves against invaders. Ironically, the Romans eventually conquered the Celts by using weaponry designed by the Celts themselves. The only pre-Indo-European language to survive in Europe is Basque, supposed to descend from mesolithic (Solutrean) people – and with that a matrilineal society that lasted well into the middle ages. However, the high status of women and the issue of lingering pagan beliefs enraged the leaders of the Spanish Inquisition that led to one of its most savage witch-burnings in the Basque town of Logrono in 1610. I am not certain where the legendary army of female warriors, the Amazons, fit in. The origin of these warriors had always belonged to the realm of mythology until recent archaeological excavations discovered hard evidence of their existence in the Altai mountain range of Mongolia. The Scythians, a tribe to which the Amazons belonged, originated from this mountain region in Eurasia.

As is well known, no one on this earth, whether human or animal enjoys being dominated. The strict and cruel Sumerian and Babylonian laws that controlled women’s behavior therefore, offer compelling evidence that women, for a long time, have resisted their domination. It is the infliction of severe pain or the threat of severe pain in private and public that controlled women’s natural urge to be free in mind and spirit and to cherish their sexuality. During the slow but steady march towards a dominator society, occasional attempts to return to a partnership model failed. Nevertheless, for a considerable time, people held on to their old beliefs and myths of fertility goddesses until eventually, these goddesses were kidnapped by the dominator culture to be made wives and consorts of their male gods. Although a few powerful female deities remained, they were made subservient to Zeus. In addition, partnership myths were altered and new myths created to reflect women’s inferior status. In many myths and legends, an entire group of women called witches, are considered evil, dishonest, or dangerous. The power of myth indeed – invented and reinvented by powerful males and delivered to society to provide back up for their philosophy of the inferiority of women and to justify violence, in the private as well as in the public sphere.

eros-n-psyche-2-big.jpg

But even in this dominator world, the old yearning for connection, for a harmonious union between woman and man, for a sense of the universe as cyclic and orderly rather than chaotic and violent – in short, for Eros rather than Thanatos – continues to struggle for reassertion in both myth and reality. Thus, in the “reformed” Dionysian myth – the myth of Orpheus – we also find remnants of the older world view in a conception of both masculinity and female-male relations that reaffirms Eros rather than Thanatos.

Social psychologist David Loye points out that Orpheus’s yearning for reconnection with Euridice is symbolic of man’s yearning for reconnection with woman in a society in which the loving sexual bonding between woman and man is considered a threat to the domination of man over woman (Eisler, pg, 140-141).

If the new and revised myths validated the dominator culture, the new religions were its lynchpin. The subordination of women was now by divine design and who could argue with God? Women were left to worship a woman whose sexuality was dead. Mary the Virgin may be holy but a goddess of love and sexuality she is not. The feminine principle was banished from the universe. Men would embark on journeys of Enlightenment and seek ‘wholeness’ while their feminine half was literally getting stoned to death. The sacred and pleasurable sexuality of our ancient ancestors was being replaced with sexuality synonymous with pain and suffering. The venerated vagina became a mere piece of cunt. The former strong, equal, and loving connection between men and women disappeared further and further into our distant memory until it was snuffed out altogether. Darwin, a gifted scientist, but a product of the dominator culture interpreted evolution in terms of competition. He failed to take into account the cooperative element of 30.000 years of human civilization that predated recorded history.

The religions generated by the dominator cultures have both dominator and partnership elements - the former enforces it while the latter maintains it. The religions are in effect faithful servants of the God of Hypocrisy – they were tailor-made for the dominator philosophy that utterly despised, strong, independent, sexual, and free-spirited women.

So at the same time that the Church continued to mouth Jesus’ message of peace and love, it could command the institution of the brutal Inquisition and Crusades. It could continue to preach that we are all “brothers” through Jesus Christ, and at the same time condone the virtual enslavement of women to their husbands, along with the enslavement of men by men and nation by nation.

It was the Christian Church’s hierarchy that declared, that “the locus par excellence of sin is sex,” that proclaimed woman a constant danger to man, and that enacted edict after edict to “protect” men from women’s sexuality through the most incredibly repressive and brutal means. It was the church that, as its ultimate “protection” of men from the ‘danger’ of women, launched the Christian witch-hunts - which left some towns almost without any female population, killed millions of women so accused, and deprived Western medicine of invaluable herbal and other healing knowledge that had until then been passed on by pagan priestesses and healers from generation to generation (Eisler, pg, 204-205).

The church pornographers’ appetite for inflicting pain on women is well demonstrated in the following church-commissioned religious ‘works of art’. Saint Barbara, a fifteenth-century painting by Master Francke hangs in the National museum of Finland. She is nude and tied to a post and you can see that her torturers are a burly executioner who beats the Saint with a knotted cord while another slices of her breast. Images of nude, bound women abound in religious art. Then there is this grotesque work of art called Inferno, painted in 1396 that can still be viewed in Gimigniano, Italy. A masked devil is shoving a sharp pole into a bound woman’s vagina.

One can almost imagine the cries of our ancient prehistoric ancestors. “What have you done to my sacred woman?” For the Paleolithic peoples, erotic rites would have been rituals of alignment with the life-giving female and male powers of the cosmos often represented in their art. So for them, partaking in the pleasures of sex would not have been sinful but, on the contrary, a way of coming closer to their Goddess (Eisler, pg, 57).

The RC church’s continued insensitivity to women and its willful blindness to women’s suffering was evident in the Pope’s recent absurd proclamation that the washing machine helped liberate women while completely ignoring the plight of millions of women enslaved worldwide specifically for the sexual gratification of men.

The Church’s constant association of sex not with pleasure but with eternal punishment and pain was not only a way of alienating men from women, and thus justifying and maintaining male dominance, it also served to alienate men from their own bodies, their own emotions, and above all, from their human need for loving connection (Eisler, pg, 205).

Buddhism is no less disdainful of women as it considers female sexuality as a corrupting force. Rather than defining sex as sin, sex is tied to the natural world, the world of suffering and ignorance. The activation of sexual desire is considered to be caused by women, and sexual relations are considered incompatible with religious attainments. (The Prostitution of Sexuality, pg, 182). Seeking Enlightenment is, of course, the prerogative of men only.

Men’s centuries’ long attempt to control women therefore, not only distorted female sexuality but also their own. In Greece, the so-called cradle of Western democracy, women were held in such great contempt that male homosexuality was promoted as a better alternative that thrived alongside sex with several classes of prostitutes. Although the homosexual relationship mimicked the dominant and subservient role – the manly man was powerful while the feminine role was always played by a slave. Athens was notorious for its lax attitudes regarding sexuality but ‘free love’ was only free for men. In fact, an adulterous wife could be thrown out of her house naked or be killed. Athens even had an official woman’s police, the gynaikonomoi, which served to restrict the movements of women in order to “protect their chastity.” (Eisler, pg, 106). Many Greek writers exhibited hysterical, pathological misogyny that was matched by its philosophers. Aristotle held that women were merely incomplete or maimed males – beings of a naturally inferior or not fully human order to be, again naturally, controlled by men. The practice of marrying girls off at a young age also served to maintain male control, as Socrates makes clear when he asks Ischomachus, “Didn’t you marry her as young as possible so that she would have been seen and heard as little as possible?” (Eisler, pg, 111).

Here again we witness resistance from women as there are indications that there may have been an underground of partnership revolt. A play like Aristophanes’ "Lysistrata" offers similarities to our contemporary feminist and women’s peace movements. But the most remarkable event was the breaking and mutilation of the phalluses of the Hermes in 415 BC (the statues guarding free men’s houses and public places all over Athens), that were a reflection of men’s admiration for and obsession with their penises (sounds familiar?). Although this ‘devastating’ (for men) crime was never solved, Eva C. Keuls, a professor of Classics, who challenges the idealized images of Athens, strongly suspects that the perpetrators of this symbolic act were the long-suffering women of Athens (Keuls, pg, 13).

The examples of Athens and the medieval holocaust of women deemed too independent offer but a glimpse into the extreme control of female behavior and sexuality that overtook the cultures that had been conquered by the Indo Europeans. The religions and myths were instrumental in brainwashing society into believing that women are ‘naturally’ inferior to men. Although the institutions it build had to inculcate the male defined (revised) nature of women through violence or the fear of violence and through shaming practices. The ancient sacred woman was transformed by force into a lesser species - an object that could be used and abused as men saw fit.

Let it be said that throughout history including today, there have been many men that have resisted the enforced dominator culture. Men that supported the free-spirited medieval women were also burnt at the stake. Furthermore, there exist many historical art images that portray women with dignity and respect.

Also, there are surviving fragments of poems idealizing rather than vilifying women and celebrating love between women and men. In fact, there is even in one late-fourth-century B.C.E. play a young man who expresses his remorse at having adopted a ‘dual standard’ in his sexual relations with his wife. So from both art and literature we have evidence that even in a society where laws and myths placed such formidable obstacles in the way of anything other than male dominance and female subservience, both women and men hungered for relations based on mutual respect and caring (Eisler, pg, 113-114).

However, those that resisted the dominator culture were greatly outnumbered by those that approved of it.

There are some who say that the dominator system is necessary to achieve an advanced and complex society. This is by far the most absurd and most illogical assertion I have ever heard. Not to belittle the truly great inventions of men but one cannot deny that we live in a world of violence, scarce natural resources, imminent food shortages etc., that can hardly be called great achievements. Instead of beating themselves on the chest with pride, men ought to ask themselves what kind of world we would live in today, if women had been able, throughout history, to contribute fully in all aspects of society. Let’s take a closer look at the Minoan culture (2700-1450 BC) on the island of Crete to determine what might have been.

Because Minoan society was so socially complex and technologically advanced, cultural historians call it a high civilization. What is extraordinary is how the Minoan system was egalitarian in all aspects – men and women were considered equal and there is a good deal of data indicating that life in Minoan towns was very different from that in most other civilizations of the time. There are here neither pyramids nor ziggurats towering over the much poorer dwellings of the “common people.” Most tellingly, Minoan towns display what scholars describe as a remarkably high general standard of living, with none of the sharp differences between haves and have-nots we have learned to associate with “advanced” civilizations (Eisler, pg, 79).

How many articles and comments on the Agonist have been devoted to analyzing our culture of entitlement and to agonizing over the stark inequities between our citizens? Is there not an inkling of a desire to be able to roll back the tape to the end of the Neolithic era and to start all over again knowing what we know now?

Another interesting anecdote about the Minoans is that one of their most popular sports was the highly dangerous practice of “bull leaping.” which involved jumping over a charging bull. Interestingly, cheerleading was not part of the Minoan women’s repertoire as they were too busy leaping over the bulls themselves. And to top it off, the sports outfit of both men and women consisted of a loin cloth. What a sight that must have been.

The Minoan culture clearly shows us that equality is a value that is crucial if one wants to achieve and maintain a peaceful and well-functioning society. Sadly, the Minoan civilization was weakened by severe earthquakes and was eventually crushed by the dominators of Greece, the Myceneans.

In the opening paragraph I insinuated that the ongoing inferior status of women is the root cause of all violence. In other words, the continued subordination of women is the fire that heats the cauldron of all violence. What this means is that the tears shed for Omar Khadr are wasted, that the outrage over greedy bankers is wasted, that the disgust over U.S. involvement in torture is wasted if there is no parallel discussion taking place about ways to eliminate the inequality between men and women. Because gender inequality produces families that breed an unending supply of warmongers, fraudsters, rapists, torturers that are required for the Guantanamo Bays of the future, the wars of the future, and new elitist authoritarians to rule over the sheeple. Violent or fraudulent power of a few over many begins with controlling women. The new severe restrictions on women that are imposed by the Taliban are one example - see the new law in Afghanistan and the Shari law in the Swat region of Pakistan. And let us not forget the renewed pressure by the Christian Right to make abortion illegal and the demand by some to legalize polygamy. What we are witnessing is a severe dominator pushback.

The other more devastating scenario, now that nuclear technology is in the hands of many, is that our planet blows up first. However, that might not be such a bad thing considering the abject misery endured by billions of people worldwide. I will discuss this and how the current pornographic images of women perpetuate inequality in greater detail in the fourth installment. But for now, let’s kidnap the story of Adam and Eve and give it a different ending.

New Adam and the New Eve by David Loye

I had a terrible dream, she said.
You’re safe, he murmured, cradling her.
No, it was terrible, she said, I cannot sleep.
I still see that glorious garden, the birds,
the fruits, the clear streams with pebbles of
agate and the trancelike wandering of green fish,
and you were there, and for a time it was good,
but then this terrifying old man came and told me
I must not think for myself. And soon a snake
came and said – He laughed. A talking snake!
Don’t laugh, please don’t laugh! She shuddered.
This was so real, more real than now, much more.
The snake offered me a brain and mind and when
I took them the old man came rushing in, his eyes
exploding, his mouth aghast, and cursing with
hurricane force he threw us from the garden.
And you blamed me, she cried, and in a world
of misery we fought for five thousand years.

The sun touched the window sill, touched
her hair: he touched the gold along her neck
and back and sighing she rolled over and for
a long time they held each other, then she rose.
Come see she called joyous beside the window.
In poured the full glory of the morning, the
copper-gold of sky, the far-off crowing, the
clear, muted laughter along the river, the
light, cool fragrance in from the fields.
It will be a good day, he said, smiling.
And night, she said. For years, they
both thought. For years and years.

Adam and Eve

Partnership is Adam and Eve with a happy ending


adrena April 5, 2009 - 6:16pm
( categories: Human Rights )

Seriously, all male-dominant and aggressive behavior stems from the Kurgans? Because the environment dried and they killed goats? That is the basis of all male-dominant behavior on earth?

takaratiki April 5, 2009 - 11:10pm

On the right is a little boy playing lovingly with a doll. I took the pic when he gently covered the baby with a blanket.

BoyWithDoll
Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.

adrena April 5, 2009 - 11:47pm

can you please explain what you mean by posting this photo in response?
its unclear.
maybe explain in relation to the arccallev's post below too?
thanks!

hapkido April 6, 2009 - 12:50am

There is a blogging tradition where the community will post recipes as responses to "troll" postings. Here Adrena responds with something non-violent and generally tone changing. A good tactic especially following a first comment.

Jeff Wegerson April 6, 2009 - 10:34am

Let me clarify, I was a bit too agog last night to properly enunciate my thoughts. The author has come up with a theory that essentially states that there existed a shangri-la like existence for humanity until the coming of patriarchal invaders from 1) the Arab Northern Desert (Hijaz) and 2) central asia, in the form of Nomadic Pastoralist Kurgan. There was also the statement that North and South America were relatively free of violence, "Alas, foreign invaders (you know who they are) massacred most of their erstwhile peaceful societies and then proceeded to call themselves ‘civilized’."

The first premise of patriarchal invaders from the Arab peninsula does not fly at all with current archaeological evidence and is primarily put forth by someone working with little understanding and tattered, archaic data (DeMeo), coming up with assumptions based, ostensibly, on modern racial stereotypes. The argument is so flawed that it is not even worth wasting breath upon.

The second premise, that environment destroying pastoralists fueled by a lack of sympathy from having slaughtered goats since an early age came raining down on the peaceful folk and inflicted their anti-female agenda upon them and thus the world also has a few problems with it. First off, the last time I checked, the people occupying the fertile plains were killing a lot of animals, of both the domesticated and wild variety, for a long, long time before the spread of the Indo-European language. Unsympathetic approaches to animals does not fly as a cause of patriarchy. Second off, there is a evidence of intra-species violence amongst humans in the pre-4000 BCE period from these supposed peaceful matriarchies (mass burial of projectile point and blunt force trauma damaged skeletons of all sexes and ages, Sudan 13,000-14,000 BCE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cemetery_117)). Third, the spread of a language set (Indo-European) does not necessarily indicate expansion by the sword, that is an inference that needs to survive evidential testing. It is not a fact and there are many arguments against it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan_hypothesis). Fourth, modern pastoralists have worked the same summer/winter grounds for millennia in numerous cultures without the widespread environmental destruction posited by the author. If masses of ungulates munching across the plains in regular migration patterns was so damaging, then sub-Saharan Africa would long ago have resembled the Sahara.

As to North and South America, a place we will assume was free of Kurgan domination in prehistory, any suggestion that the cultures present were "erstwhile peaceful societies" is completely askew. Make that statement stick to the Aztec, the Mayan, the Andean empires, the Woodland Natives of North American, and I will buy you and everyone else in the bar a round. It is ludicrous and smacks of a Western exceptionalist view of "the other".

Which brings us back to square one, the point I was making in my comments to the first part of this article series: Nothing is gained by putting forth a monochromatic view of human history in the cause of making us better(us vs. them, good vs. evil). All that can occur from that is to plant your foundation on a bog of misunderstanding so that everything that comes of it is slanted, inhuman, and destined to failure. If we want to get beyond the patriarchal and matriarchal mindsets and proceed to a human mindset, then we need to know who we are, to the best of our ability, design a path based on the inherent limitations of the human animal and our construct culture, and proceed to value each other and our world as people.

takaratiki April 6, 2009 - 3:00pm

Open-mouthed disbelief is not the same as trollism. My apologies.

Thanks very much for the expanded comment. It strikes me as reasonable.

Jeff Wegerson April 6, 2009 - 10:14pm

The first premise of patriarchal invaders from the Arab peninsula does not fly at all with current archaeological evidence and is primarily put forth by someone working with little understanding and tattered, archaic data (DeMeo)

My essay is not about the invaders from the Arab peninsula. Re: DeMeo, please read my response to arckelley's post.

There was also the statement that North and South America were relatively free of violence

I should have been more specific as I was referring to the Five Civilized tribes of North America - the Creeks, Seminoles, Chickasaws, Choctaws and the Cherokees. The Philadelphian naturalist, William Bartram had this to say about them: "They already had the refinements of true civilization, which cannot in the least degree, be attributed to the good examples of the white people." He also noted the Indians' genial character, orderly towns, lack of domestic violence and strict laws against alcohol ("What is America?" by Ronald Wright pg, 113). I remember reading about the violent tribes you mentioned and wondering why they were violent. That would be another study that I'm not willing to undertake. That said, I understand your comment based on what I wrote but maybe you are willing to revise your point of view?

Unsympathetic approaches to animals does not fly as a cause of patriarchy. So what's your theory?

Second off, there is a evidence of intra-species violence amongst humans in the pre-4000 BCE period from these supposed peaceful matriarchies (mass burial of projectile point and blunt force trauma damaged skeletons of all sexes and ages, Sudan 13,000-14,000 BCE

My essay was not about Sudan. My research concentrated on one specific area and peoples, THE INDO-EUROPEANS. Please produce evidence of prehistoric violence from this area.

This is from the site you referenced"The Kurgan model is the most widely accepted scenario of Indo-European origins, although alternate theories such as the Anatolian urheimat also have some support". The Anatolian theory was discredited on the basis of language geneology in the article I posted in my response to arckelley. But more importantly, Gimbutas widened the scope of descriptive archaeology to include linguistics, mythology, comparative religions and the study of historical records. She called this interdisciplinary approach archaeomythology.

During the last few years of his life, Joseph Campbell spoke frequently of Marija Gimbutas, profoundly regretting that her research on the Neolithic cultures of Europe was not available during the 1960's when he was writing The Masks of God. Otherwise, he would have "revised everything." Campbell compared the importance of Marija's work to Champollion's decipherment of Egyptian hieroglyphics. He was not alone in this appreciation. According to anthropologist Ashley Montagu, "Marija Gimbutas has given us a veritable Rosetta Stone of the greatest heuristic value for future work in the hermeneutics of archaeology and anthropology." Source

And here is the view of Indo Europeanists themselves.

In the 1970s, a mainstream consensus had emerged among Indo-Europeanists in favour of the "Kurgan hypothesis" placing the Indo-European homeland in the Pontic steppe of the Chalcolithic. This was not least due to the influence of the Journal of Indo-European Studies, edited by JP Mallory, that focused on the ideas of Marija Gimbutas, and offered some improvements. Source

But then again, archaeology wouldn't be archaeology if a theory did not include criticisms and qualifications. Apparently, Indo-Europeanists and archaeologists don't always see eye to eye.

Finally, Eisler, whom I cite frequently in my essay, believes that humankind offers a possibility for both cultures to emerge originally: dominator or partnership. In other words, not all dominator cultures may have been preceded by a partnership culture. However, there are very few considering the existence of ancient Goddess-worshipping societies in most parts of the world. My area of interest is discovering the origin of our very own culture.

I will respond later to another comment you made.


Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.

adrena April 9, 2009 - 12:12pm

"My essay is not about the invaders from the Arab peninsula. Re: DeMeo, please read my response to arckelley's post."

Fair enough.

"I should have been more specific as I was referring to the Five Civilized tribes of North America - the Creeks, Seminoles, Chickasaws, Choctaws and the Cherokees. The Philadelphian naturalist, William Bartram had this to say about them: "They already had the refinements of true civilization, which cannot in the least degree, be attributed to the good examples of the white people." He also noted the Indians' genial character, orderly towns, lack of domestic violence and strict laws against alcohol ("What is America?" by Ronald Wright pg, 113). I remember reading about the violent tribes you mentioned and wondering why they were violent. That would be another study that I'm not willing to undertake. That said, I understand your comment based on what I wrote but maybe you are willing to revise your point of view?"

The five civilized tribes of North America? Umm, I think the Iroquois would take umbrage with that. Or the Huron. The Sioux. The Mississippian Culture. The Hopi. Hell, the Neutral-Wenro, why not? Cherry-picking several tribes based on their sorta-suitability to this peaceful ideal and giving them a high place doesn't really work out very well. Particularly when a more problematic culture (the Iroquois) give a very well documented, clear template of women in a matrilineal, closer to egalitarian society. Women in that society wielded tremendous influence even in comparison to Modern American culture. Of course, they also happened to engage in some serious violence.

"So what's your theory?"

Goats, obviously. When little Ugg killed his precious baby goat, it lit off an extreme wave of inexplicably anti-female violence that reverberates to this day. Which might work, if it wasn't for all of that Paleolithic cave art showing people hunting down bleeding game. Also the fact that human tool sets are practically defined by their ubiquitous projectile points. Killing animals isn't the issue. Early settlements went hand in hand with domestication and animal butchering, prior to the Indo-European period.

"Please produce evidence of prehistoric violence from this area."

"In Europe, for example, there is another small handful of cases of skeletal trauma and individuals killed by projectile points coming from Mesolithic sites dating from between 20,000 to 10,000 years ago (Vencl 1991)

- Archaeology at the Millenium, Feinman & Price p.333

"The Kurgan model is the most widely accepted scenario of Indo-European origins,"

Yep, of a language set with an itinerant material culture. First off, what has an Indo-Europeanist to do with patriarchical domination? They are language specialists, they track the flow of language which does not necessarily track the flow of people or of violent conquest. The Indo-European tongue spread far, this is well recorded and well supported. That it came with fire and blood on horseback is a whole different issue and what I and most Archaeologists have a problem with. Secondly, Gimbutas was instrumental in linking a material culture to the spread of Indo-European. That has some good material evidence behind it. She also went off to-starboard with the idea of the mother goddess, an antiquated 19th-Century idea that was initially used to demonstrate how primitive and inferior women were to men.

I'll let another Archaeologist some it up as she does a better job than I. "The style of argument adopted by Gimbutas adopts the form of an assumption that the goddess hypothesis is correct, with all the evidence interpreted as supporting it. Within this framework, for instance, all the nonfemale figures are ignored or assumed to represent the goddess or the consort of the goddess. Such argumentation not only lacks adequate linkage to the evidence but also is impossible to refute: either one believes or does not.The goddess hypothesis also lacks plausibility on several fronts: it is unlikely that prehistoric societies over large areas and many thousands of years would have shared a single religion; it is anachronistic to think in terms of a more or less monotheistic religion for prehistory; there is no a priori reason that even the definitely female figurines represent goddesses, let alone a single goddess, rather than mortal women; and, equally, there is no necessary connection between the assumed worship of a mother goddess and social organization based on female power and female values."

-Handbook of Gender in Archaeology, Sarah M. Nelson, p.757

To whether "dominator" or "partnership" cultures arose first in the human experience, if I understand it correctly, seems near impossible to prove either archaeologically, biologically, or otherwise, much less validly test for. There is precious little evidence of humans as such from the time when we split off from h. erectus (always a question mark on the exact species, physical anthropologists and biologists will be sorting that out for years). Seems rather chicken or egg-ish.

takaratiki April 14, 2009 - 12:10am

First, I was very tired and didn't have time to properly respond.
Second, the way Takaratiki worded his question was rather sarcastic.
Third, from his comments to my previous essay I remembered that his focus was on defending male aggression. In one of my responses I mentioned that I wished I had a better camera so I could show him pics of the three little boys I saw playing lovingly with baby dolls.
Fourth, when my lovely daughter came home for a visit she miraculously transferred the pics from my inexpensive cellphone to her pc using blue tooth, or is it blue ray? Something like that.

So, to wrap it up, the reason I posted the pic was because I was hopeful Takaratiki would remember our previous exchange, I was tired, and his response to my essay was sarcastic.

What could be more peaceful than an image of a boy and a girl playing side by side with baby dolls. It was a nice thought that helped put me to sleep.

Finally, it was exactly what Jeff Wegerson said. I have an even better pic of a little boy playing lovingly with a doll. So watch out, I may strike again with a peaceful comment.


Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.

adrena April 6, 2009 - 6:59pm

If what you got out of my previous response was a defense of male aggression, then you were mistaken.The only thing I'm defending is an honest attempt to understand the nature of humanity, something I've spent a significant hunk of my life trying to do. When my daughter comes home and we play and I marvel at her, it is always with the sadness of knowledge that she will come of age at a time of enforced cultural ignorance, a time when so many possibilities are open for her and yet our concept of a woman's worth has retreated to either a diva or a whore, when boys are taught about sexuality solely from what their self-centered parents absent-mindedly leave for them to find on the internet. This is crap. That being said, we feel that it is our duty to raise her with a sense of why it is that we have come to this juncture, how to use her mind to filter through the b.s. spewed by all sides (us included), and to strive to understand the world as it is and how to make it as we would like it to be. Our nature is what it is biologically, we can change ourselves culturally but only if we know what it is that we are fixing. It is the first principle: Know thyself.

takaratiki April 6, 2009 - 8:45pm

Thank you. Now I have a clearer picture. So what's our biological nature?


Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.

adrena April 6, 2009 - 8:53pm

That's one of the things that the social and biological sciences focuses on. There's no simple answer that I can give you. Some things seem fairly clear: we evolved from a last common ancestor with the current ape species, our closest relationship appears to be with the current chimpanzees, we are social, we are generalists, we are sexually dimorphic.There are solid biological causes for male physical aggression which are informed by cultural constructs. That being said, cross-culturally males are generally more physically aggressive than females, leading to a greater propensity for physical and verbal violence from males in nearly all cultures. How great the differentiation and intensity and where it tends to be directed seems to lean more to cultural predilection and environmental, social, and physical stress. Roughly speaking.

takaratiki April 6, 2009 - 11:22pm

I might as well join in.

WARNING: Reading this article may be an opinion-altering experience

The behavior of a close relative challenges assumptions about male supremacy in human evolution

At a juncture in history during which women are seeking equality with men, science arrives with a belated gift to the feminist movement. Male-biased evolutionary scenarios-- Man the Hunter, Man the Toolmaker and so on--are being challenged by the discovery that females play a central, perhaps even dominant, role in the social life of one of our nearest relatives. In the past few years many strands of knowledge have come together concerning a relatively unknown ape with an unorthodox repertoire of behavior: the bonobo.

The bonobo is one of the last large mammals to be found by science. The creature was discovered in 1929 in a Belgian colonial museum, far from its lush African habitat. A German anatomist, Ernst Schwarz, was scrutinizing a skull that had been ascribed to a juvenile chimpanzee because of its small size, when he realized that it belonged to an adult. Schwarz declared that he had stumbled on a new subspecies of chimpanzee. But soon the animal was assigned the status of an entirely distinct species within the same genus as the chimpanzee, Pan.

The bonobo was officially classified as Pan paniscus, or the diminutive Pan. But I believe a different label might have been selected had the discoverers known then what we know now. The old taxonomic name of the chimpanzee, P. satyrus-- which refers to the myth of apes as lustful satyrs--would have been perfect for the bonobo.

The species is best characterized as female-centered and egalitarian and as one that substitutes sex for aggression. Whereas in most other species sexual behavior is a fairly distinct category, in the bonobo it is part and parcel of social relations--and not just between males and females. Bonobos engage in sex in virtually every partner combination (although such contact among close family members may be suppressed). And sexual interactions occur more often among bonobos than among other primates. Despite the frequency of sex, the bonobo's rate of reproduction in the wild is about the same as that of the chimpanzee. A female gives birth to a single infant at intervals of between five and six years. So bonobos share at least one very important characteristic with our own species, namely, a partial separation between sex and reproduction.

A Near Relative

This finding commands attention because the bonobo shares more than 98 percent of our genetic profile, making it as close to a human as, say, a fox is to a dog. The split between the human line of ancestry and the line of the chimpanzee and the bonobo is believed to have occurred a mere eight million years ago. The subsequent divergence of the chimpanzee and the bonobo lines came much later, perhaps prompted by the chimpanzee's need to adapt to relatively open, dry habitats Does this sound familiar? [see "East Side Story: The Origin of Humankind," by Yves Coppens; SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, May 1994].

Much more


Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.

adrena April 7, 2009 - 8:00pm

A bit of advice though. It's not happiness you want, so much as truth. The fact is that it's impossible to have the good without the bad. They are as much two sides of the same coin as left and right, up and down, past and future. In fact, the root of much, if not most true evil, has been the quest for happiness, security, etc. by some, at the expense of others. The ends justifying the means. We need nuance, not contentment.

As you point out, the last few thousand years have been a relatively short period of time. A time though in which humanity has tried to rocket to the stars and only finds it has created another Tower of Babel. So we are going to have to turn around and look inward to find what we have missed. For some, it will be an examination. For others, it will be a healing process. The fact is though, that life bootstraps itself upward by consuming what came before, in order to create what comes next. So it will continue to be messy, chaotic and confusing, but that's part of the process. Hopefully we can transition from being the top predator of the planetary ecosystem to central nervous system of the planetary organism, because the alternative is to just continue fighting over what remains.

brodix April 5, 2009 - 11:18pm

sounds great, but what am I going to do w/ these clumsy hands and feet? let alone my, um, how did adrena put it?.....my, um, (cough) CUNT?

great piece adrena, I really liked the historical parts. I too would like to see more evidence of the Kurgan hypothesis, beyond Eisler. I'm sure it's just waiting to be dug up. Things seem to have progressed much further since the time that I read "When God was a Woman". definitely a line of inquiry worth exploring.


albatross

dk April 6, 2009 - 6:51am

Much appreciated.


Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.

adrena April 6, 2009 - 7:41pm

functions as a network of individual neurons, just as society functions as a network of individual people. Sometimes we are part of a larger whole and sometimes we have an entire universe within.

How you network is, um, a matter of personal preference.

brodix April 6, 2009 - 8:19pm

that settles everything :-)


Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.

adrena April 6, 2009 - 8:31pm

I'm not quite sure how you get to this transition or through this transition as a human animal.
I follow your reasoning re: networks, neural systems, etc.
but I am truly stymied by as to how one can enforce a biological evolution away from hunger, sex drive, and a desire to provide for progeny. YOUR OWN progeny.
first principle, right? how do you get around it? ...ESP? :)

I kid around, but seriously, w/o narrative, how do you teach it?
I'm stopping by Esalan next week, maybe I'll learn something, like how to spell it :)

dk April 8, 2009 - 9:24am

of the Kurgan Hypothesis - with arguments pro and con.


Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.

adrena April 7, 2009 - 6:56pm

I missed the link on the first read through. and congratulations again on stirring up controversy/conversation.
I like that DNA research is being used in this field. It seems it screws up everybody's timelines, but like the combination of archeology and linguistics, the addition of another tool of knowledge adds clarity to the picture.

and hoo-ray for the internet, which allows people in their various ivory towers to connect w/ people digging through the sands of time and people digging foxholes and people digging ditches.

Merlin Stone became interested in archaeology and ancient religions from her study of ancient art. She taught at the State University of New York at Buffalo. From 1958 to 1967 she worked as a sculptor, exhibiting widely and executing numerous commissions.

She spent a decade on research before writing the book published in the UK as The Paradise Papers and then in the U.S. as When God Was a Woman (1976). It describes her theory of how the Hebrews suppressed allegedly goddess-based religions practiced in Canaan and how their reaction to what she asserts as being the existing matriarchial and matrilineal societal structures shaped Judaism and, thus, Christianity. Her other major work, Ancient Mirrors of Womanhood (ISBN# 0-8070-6751-2) collects stories, myths, and prayers involving goddess-figures from a wide variety of world religions, ancient and otherwise. Stone's hypotheses are radical and challenging to the accepted views of antiquity, and as such they remain controversial. She is the author of numerous short stories, book reviews, and essays, including "3,000 Years of Racism."

Stone's book When God Was a Woman had a profound effect on the emerging Goddess Culture of the 1970s and 80s in the US. It spoke clearly and simply to women raised in traditional Judeo-Christian traditions, and made the concept of a female deity accessible.

now I obviously ain't got no advanced degrees, but the suppression of female dieties by the Hebrew tribes is written right there in the Bible for anybody to read. Fertility cults, fetishes, etc are all commonly accepted in the historical record as well. Really, I just don't see why everyone gets hung up on the minutiae.(territorial pissing matches?) Something did change, something made us go from being pastoral to being agrarian,
from worshipping female goddesses and a whole pantheon of gods, to being monotheistic and worshipping mannon, ...but I digress :>

I have no idea of what this "emerging Goddess culture of the 70's and 80's" is about. Is it over already? I think the kids have swallowed it, moved on and regurgitated it back into social Darwinism; back into bitches and ho's; back into gold diggers, back into there's only madonna's and whores. (for example, Madonna was the boy toy, a whore; who became very rich, even married a rich guy, Guy Ritchie, and returned to being a madonna. but she's another k-k-krazy bitch. boy, I can't wait for Madonna to lead my generation through menopause, that's gonna be fun. )

well, I have to do this now. being a fellow Uof M dropout and growing up in Catholic neighborhoods of Detroit, I can see where she's coming from , though at the time of its release I only remeber the outcry of blasphemy:

there's only one goddess in the whole thing though , 2 if you include Madonna herself :)

dk April 8, 2009 - 6:37am

About black and white, good and evil, etc., that's a topic that could use an essay of its own. Coming back to my essay though, I believe it is very important that we rewrite the story of Adam and Eve. Especially since, on this very site, two myths were used recently - one about female bondage, and another about a witch - that I found disturbing. Since many books have been written about "The Power of Myth", I believe that positive myths about women are essential if humankind is to move forward.


Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.

adrena April 6, 2009 - 7:37pm

Or just file it away? You don't want to rewrite the myths of the past, because it just puts you on shaky ground.
Myths are just object lessons from people who want to say something, but are not quite sure what to say, so they make up a story. The fact is that we are currently drowning in narrative, so more stories do more to obscure than illuminate. That's why I think it more important to understand the foundation these edifices rest on, than it is to attack them directly. While the battle of the sexes rages on in many parts of the world, I think they are signs of deeper malaise, than cause of the malaise. Quite simply the sexes have different, but complimentary roles. Women tend to be the core of the social unit, while men are the perimeter. What you want to focus on is creating a more communitarian social unit, than the current nuclear family, which does tend to make individual males the guardians of their castle and women captive to it.

brodix April 6, 2009 - 8:47pm

Quite simply the sexes have different, but complimentary roles

One could write a book about this. I was looking for a quote but damn, I can't find it. I still must respond to the archaeologist's comment so I'll leave this for another time.


Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.

adrena April 6, 2009 - 9:22pm

that the sexes have different, but complimentary roles is true enough however, both actual (minor) and alleged (major) differences between the sexes have been used to justify inequities and constraints which harm women emotionally, financially and physically.

And you must agree that men consider their roles to be far more important than those of women.

Also, I believe that as society evolves, our roles will become less polarized which is a good thing.


Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.

adrena April 7, 2009 - 6:40pm

What you want to focus on is creating a more communitarian social unit, than the current nuclear family, which does tend to make individual males the guardians of their castle and women captive to it.

I agree w/ your assesment of the problem, but I'm unclear on your solution. can you expand on this?

dk April 8, 2009 - 8:46am

Some links didn't work for me. I found the previous parts
here
http://agonist.org/adrena/20081203/thoughts_on_human_heterosexuality_part_1

and here
http://agonist.org/adrena/20090107/a_lesser_species_part_11

But haven't read them yet.

"All I know is just what I read in the newspapers." - Will Rogers

readr satx April 5, 2009 - 11:35pm


"Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined." -Henry David Thoreau

Tina April 5, 2009 - 11:43pm

Disclaimer - I am a young, female, archaeologist whose research focuses in Southwest Asia during the period from about 4500 to 3500 BCE. My comments here are regarding the armchair archaeology that is being practiced in your pieces with disregard for the complexity of the data and the theoretical understanding necessary to handle said data. A wise (and old male) professor once told me that you can find anything you want to find and see anything you want to see in the archaeological record (it is, after all, incomplete by its nature and yearns to have a story told). You have to train yourself to see what is truly there in the evidence and what is mere hope or conjecture. Yes, many archaeologists, many male, have looked at the Venus figurines of Europe and declared them pornographic images, toted around by the male hunters like a WWII pin-up girl. You, and Gimbutas, and many others, look at the same figures and see fertility figurines, mother goddesses, and female power. Is there truly any evidence for either position? Are they not both valid possibilities? Could there be others? We do not have enough information to definitively tell us. Yes, we can analyze, and discuss, and debate, but it is not possible to form the entire framework for a civilization off of a handful of representational figurines. Imagine that you knew nothing of our own civilization but found a few scattered Barbie dolls in a couple of lucky excavations? Do you think you could reconstruct even the basics of our male/female relationships from that? Or our societal structure? You go on to say that "caves were considered sacred sanctuaries judging from the images painted on the walls - it was sacred art". Again, on what are you basing this? Do you truly have evidence for their religious practices? What they considered sacred? Is your wallpaper sacred? Maybe they just thought it was pretty.

Rather than nitpick every occurrence of this type of thinking in your essays, I would like to highlight your reliance on James De Meo's work on "Saharasia" in backing up your claims that a "dominator culture" emerged around 4000 BCE. Please see this essay by Max Dashu discussing the severe flaws in both De Meo's data set and argument: http://www.suppressedhistories.net/saharasia.html

The following is a paragraph taken from that essay that highlights the basics:

"The distinguished anthropologist Peggy Reeves Sanday called the theory “reductionist and dangerous.” She was shocked that De Meo was relying on a discredited data set, “the most flawed data-base I can imagine.” Its “data” was collected before 1956, Sanday explained, by white men “who had no idea what was going on” in the cultures they were studying. Much of it was collected in the 30’s, when ethnology was riddled with racial and gender bias."

Also, please note that Gimbutas' work is severely dated. If you are interested in more recent scholarship on Çatal Höyük, please read Ian Hodder, who, incidently, is very concerned with integrating different communities into the interpretation of archaeological data.

The issues that you are addressing are important and a discussion on how the overwhelming pattern of male-dominated human societies came to be is fascinating, deep, and complex. Your essay, however, strips the complexity away from the data and seeks to provide a comfortable, black and white answer where one doesn't exist.

arccallev April 6, 2009 - 12:17am

for the clear, informed and sophisticated critique.

Given Sean-Paul Kelley's globetrotting and arccallev's smarts, surely there's room for an archaeology columnist?!?!?
the most fascinating of the human/social sciences in some ways.

hapkido April 6, 2009 - 12:48am

yes, like many things, one can read into the record what one believes they perceive. thank you for your reply for many reasons, but that was a pivotal notion.

it is terence mckenna's own weakest link as well. i believe him though. that's just my own gut belief though, nothing completely publicly defendable.

adrena's focus is appropriate for her topic, which, however, for me is but a subtopic to my own interest of entheogens and the dominator culture. i love the work she's put into this -and i imagine it's condensed yet still for what she may do with time and volumes more space -and like her, appreciate the dialogue it initiated. i can't see how adrena's topic could have been done justice for it's own sake from any broader a perspective.

...but while you're here...

are you familiar with 'food of the gods' by terence mckenna? or any of the 'entheogen' hypotheses? do they not underscore and affirm adrena's view from that [albeit] broader perspective?

FOTG Excerpt:

Food Of The Gods, by Terence Mckenna,
Chapter 8: Twilight In Eden

Minoan Crete And The Eleusinian Mystery

In the absence of a partnership community and with the
loss of the psychoactive plants that catalyze and
maintain partnership, nolstalgia for paradise appears
quite naturally in a dominator society. The abandonment
of the original catalyst for the emergence of self-
reflection and language, the Stropharia cubensis
psilocybin-containing mushroom, has been a process with
four distinct stages. Each stage represents a further
dilution of awareness of the power and the numinous
meaning resident in the mystery.
    The first step away from the symbiosis human-fungal
partnership that characterized the early pastoralist
societies was the introduction of other psychoactive
plant substitutes for the original mushroom. This
psychoactivity can range from being equal in the depths
of it's profundity to the Stropheria cubensis psilocybin
intoxication, as in the case with the classical
hallucinogens of the New World tropics, to being
relatively trivial. Examples of the latter are the use
of Ephedra, a stimulant, and fermented honey as Soma
substitutes.

Abandonment Of The Mystery
In the case of Stropharia cubensis in Africa, a gradual
trivialization scenario is reasonable: With changes in
climate, frequent, if not continual, low levels of
mushroom ingestion gradually gave way to use that was
merely seasonal. Conscious ceremonial use of mushrooms
must have been at it's apex during this seasonal
availability phase, which may have lasted thousands of
years. Gradually, as mushrooms and mushroom ecologies
grew more rare, there may have been efforts to preserve
mushrooms by drying and preserving them in honey. As
honey easily ferments into an alcoholic intoxicant, it is
possible that over time, a practice of mixing fewer and
fewermushrooms in more and more honey may have
encouraged replacement of the mushroom cult with a cult
of mead. No greater shift of social values is possible
to imagine than that which would accompany the gradual
changeover of a psilocybin cult to an alcohol cult.
    Such gradual profanation of a psychoactive plant
sacrament merges easily into the second step in the
abandonment of the original psychosymbiotic mystery; the
second step is the substitution of completely inactive
materials for active ones. In this situation, the
substitutes, though usually still plants, are really no
more than symbols of the former power of the mystery to
authentically move initiates.
    And in the third stage of the process, symbols are
all that is left. Not only are psychoactive plants now
out of the picture, but plants of any sort have
disappeared, and in their place are esoteric teachings
and dogma, rituals, stress on lineages, gestures, and
cosmogonic diagrams. Today's world religions are typical
of this stage.
    The third stage leads into yet another stage. This
other stage is, of course, the complete abandonment of
even the pretense of remembering the felt experience of
the mystery. This last stagee is typified by secular
scientism as perfected in the twentieth century.
    We could perhaps posit a further aspect of this
fourth stage in the process of abandonmeent: the
rediscovery of the mystery and its interpretation as
evil and threatening to social values. The current
suppression of psychedelic research and the hysteria
fanned by pharmaphobic media is an obvious case in
point.
    The discussion of Minoan civilization and the
mystery cults it spawned and sheltered takes to the
domain of the plant substitutes for Stropharia cubensis
psilocybin. These were powerful cults with powerful
plants to aid in the formulation of a religious
ontology -but in all likelihood they were not directly
dependent on sources of psilocybin for the attainment
of ecstasy. In Minoan Crete and still later at Eleusis
on the Greek mainland, hallucinogenic indoles of other
types were admitted as techniques of ecstasy. Cultural
and climatic conditions made the original source of the
boundary-dissolving psilocybin ecstasy no more than a
memory and its image no more than a symbol.

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Zuma April 6, 2009 - 1:51am


a regression:
Horses, Guns, Alcohol. These were the three most detrimental things Europeans introduced to Native Americans according to Kit Carson and His Three Wives: A Family History

I found it a totally fascinating book. Kit Carson was the facilitator and leader of The Longest Walk, yet had had three indian wives and had been thoroughly inculcated to indian culture. The dominator culture was simply overwhelmingly powerful -it's nature. According to the book, indian society theretofore had been matrilineal and run by it's women, even if not necessarily 'led' by them. I need to reread the book to rediscern the distinction.

Carson was a major pivotal figure. An illiterate uneducated man, he had been a trapper in the early 19th century and had gone 'native' as far as east coast civilization was concerned. When the fur trade died off, he went south, settling in New Mexico.

a further regression:
One of the main Two Peaks communities is Carson Estates. (more guns and alcohol, but without cops -the justice there is best meted out by the women.) I wouldn't want to live in Two Peaks, but would like to visit Taos and it's outskirts.

Zuma April 8, 2009 - 9:00pm

if we could just create our own mythologies based on the shit we dig up in our yards? I find all kinds of things when I till my garden and I conjecture about the lives of the people that left these things. but I will never know them, I will never know the joys that broke their hearts or the griefs that made them sigh w/ relief. there are no means to prove what is in another's mind. even words fail the endeavor.

but digging is fun, ain't it?


albatross

dk April 6, 2009 - 7:20am

Thanks for your lengthy reply and the topics you raised. I was aware of the dissenting views regarding DeMeo's theory (Did you read DeMeo's response to some of the criticism?). What I understand from the article you posted is that the disagreement was mainly about his assertion that one of the nomadic, patriarchal tribes came from Africa. However, since the location of the other tribe (the Kurgans) tied in with Gimbutas' theory as well as with "The Neolithic Crisis" that was mentioned by the European historian, Gordon Childe, I decided, as an armchair archaeologist, that it was reasonable to reference DeMeo in my essay.

As for the following examples, please understand that I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I just wish to explain how I reached my conclusions.

As I discoverd when reading articles about archaeology, one should never rely on one method of investigation. It's always better to explore several and then put two and two together. So let's enter a cave. When one sees only vulvas on a wall and never a penis (until much later) and one compares that with a pornsite where one sees an abundance of penises with vaginas, it is reasonable to assume that the cave vulvas are not pornographic.

Also, the Neolithic work of art excavated at Catal Huyuk, Turkey that shows a carved relief of a woman and a man embracing and, next to them, the woman with a child in her arms leaves a very positive impression about the Neolithic man. Definitely not the type who spends time alone in a cave staring at vulvas.

Then there is the practice of deliberately flashing the vagina, implying that the vagina is powerful and revered by all. Traditions usually originate from beliefs of an earlier time.

Last but not least, there are those divine feminine images called Sheila-na-Gig, that had vulvas carved on stone thresholds at sacred sites. That, likewise, was a tradition passed on from a distant past.

Sorry arccelley, with all due respect, I feel very comfortable saying that the Venus figurines came from a Goddess worshipping, woman respecting society. Sacredness and pornographic are mutually exclusive.

As for DeMeo's theory, I cannot argue with you about that.

But Gimbutas I trust. I believe James Allen makes a powerful argument for her Kurgan theory.

The issues that you are addressing are important and a discussion on how the overwhelming pattern of male-dominated human societies came to be is fascinating, deep, and complex. Your essay, however, strips the complexity away from the data and seeks to provide a comfortable, black and white answer where one doesn't exist.

Do you have a theory?

A wise (and old male) professor once told me that you can find anything you want to find and see anything you want to see in the archaeological record (it is, after all, incomplete by its nature and yearns to have a story told).

I always thought this was common knowledge.

Thanks very much for taking the time to reply to my essay. The next essay will not contain any archaeological references.


Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.

adrena April 7, 2009 - 1:14am

But, on the other hand, maybe it isn't,

"Guthrie's thesis draws its main impetus … from the surprisingly limited themes dealt with by the art. Although Palaeolithic art is a readily recognisable style, unified in its elasticity and freedom, it concerns a few subject matters only. It is dominated by large mammals, many bleeding and wounded, and complemented by images of voluptuous women, isolated vulva triangles and ochre hand prints. To Guthrie, the art smacks of themes of power relevant to a specific age and sex distortion, namely, adolescent boys akin to modern graffiti artists."

More here (http://pressblog.uchicago.edu/2006/08/25/review_guthrie_the_nature_of_p.html)

The point isn't that this is a better interpretation or a truer one. It is that 10-100 millenia ago is so far away, the conditions of human existence so different from our comparatively cozy frame of being, that attempting to interpret symbolism and meaning and extrapolating an entire culture from it is fraught with peril and extremely susceptible to our own frame of reference, to borrow from post-processionalism.

takaratiki April 7, 2009 - 12:24pm

It is that 10-100 millenia ago is so far away, the conditions of human existence so different from our comparatively cozy frame of being, that attempting to interpret symbolism and meaning and extrapolating an entire culture from it is fraught with peril and extremely susceptible to our own frame of reference, to borrow from post-processionalism.

You're making an excellent case for doing away with the discipline of Archaeology altogether :-)


Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.

adrena April 7, 2009 - 6:12pm

"Symbolism" and "Meaning" of cave art, extrapolating an entire culture from it. Not material remains, not tool use patterns, not cultural trait markers, not architectural style, not skeletal markings, not contextual relationships of remains, not transmission of material knowledge over time and space, not trade diaspora, not the linkages between the material and their use. Not a mass grave with arrow heads embedded in bone during your great mother goddess period, not a Mayan city ripped apart and rearranged into overlapping, ad hoc defensive rings before being burnt, not the trappings and differentiation of sexes in their burials. Not the evidences of matriarchal and patriarchal societies and the more likely overall patterns of sedentary living as one of the keys in the transition to patriarchy. Feminist archaeology has made clear contributions to the discipline, clarifying and informing our understanding of the human heritage. The discipline did not end with Childe and Gimbutas. If you feel such an antipathy for a discipline that, like all sciences, is moving forward, discarding that which doesn't jive with the evidence for that which does, feel free to stop using archaeological assertions in your ideas of how things once were. You'll not hear a peep of counter-evidence from me again.

takaratiki April 8, 2009 - 7:48pm

Relax! My comment was only meant tongue in cheek.


Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.

adrena April 8, 2009 - 7:56pm

Did you read this article I posted in my essay? If you didn't you should. It was published in the New Yorker. The expert opinions of "Cave art specialists" are a real eye opener.

I still have to respond to two other comments you made a while ago. Despite our differences I appreciate the discussions.


Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.

adrena April 8, 2009 - 8:10pm

...one of the tier one journals [can't recall which one - if there's interest I'll dredge up my old biblio files] that makes the case that the Venus figurine was a self-representation during late stage pregnancy - quite an interesting little argument. My view, I would caution that one wants to be real cautious on the interpretation of ritual in early societies - the gap between what people say and what can be established archaeologically is pretty significant. (Early ritual in the Levantine littoral used to be one of my major research areas.)

“The absence of any US-Iran bilateral channel...may have the perverse effect of reinforcing Iranian interest in progressing in the nuclear realm so that the US will be forced to take it seriously and engage it directly." ~ Richard Haass

JustPlainDave April 6, 2009 - 12:22am

oh right, who came up w/ that one?

I can just see my cave sisters sitting around with swollen ankles and breasts, experiencng the hormonal ups and downs of pregnancy, and carving stone images of just how fat they feel.

and in case your man forgot how fat you got while pregnant, then "here's a depiction to carry around w/ you, honey, while your out hunting wooly mammoths or something. just a little something to remember me by"

I guess we've come a long way, baby. I can think of lots of depictions of mother and child, but not so many of mother and child pre-birth. w/ the exception of these figurines and Annie Liebovitz's shot of a very pregnant and nude Demi Moore that caused such an up roar. (very talented that Annie, able to take celeb shots and cause an uproar w/ them)

it is a beautiful photo, though

and vulvas as pornographic? ok, I guess there's a market for wide open beaver shots, but we don't usually go putting them out there for the children to revere. something has obviously changed.

my goofball theory, is that men tried fucking each other and realized they couldn't make a baby, so there must be something magical about women. (and there is: can't live with 'em/can't live without 'em))
why wouldn't a people worship the magical state of new life? I can see "pre-birth" as just as mystical as "after-death", but then I'm probably closer to a Cro-Magnon than most ;>

(hey Dave, what's littoral mean? webster's says seashore. but I'm thinking liturgy,prolly because you said ritual. what did you study?
better yet, what did you learn? (being Passover tomorrow and all))

dk April 7, 2009 - 6:00am

...is the eastern part of the Med, running from Turkey down to Egypt. There may be other definitions, given the generic nature of the term, but this is the one we used to use.

The point of the venus figurine self-representation theory was that the characteristics that tend to be so extremely over-represented are somewhat similar to how one might view oneself in isolation without a mirror. As I hazily recall it the notion was that these were some sort of votive figurine or some such. The notions of pron and being "too fat" are our cultural constructs - there's pretty much no guarantee that the folks that produced these things thought about such things at all.

“The absence of any US-Iran bilateral channel...may have the perverse effect of reinforcing Iranian interest in progressing in the nuclear realm so that the US will be forced to take it seriously and engage it directly." ~ Richard Haass

JustPlainDave April 7, 2009 - 6:38pm

When I was in college, I was taught there are many different, often conflicting, strands of feminist perspective - it has even been said that there are as many kinds of feminism as there are feminists. And many are worth reading as they provoke interesting lines of thought and discussion which can make much sense.

I do hope that noone reading adrena's writing comes away with the idea that she represents a good example of all feminism or consensus feminist thought.
I don't think this is a very common consideration by feminists for instance:

"The other more devastating scenario, now that nuclear technology is in the hands of many, is that our planet blows up first. However, that might not be such a bad thing considering the abject misery endured by billions of people worldwide.I will discuss this and how the current pornographic images of women perpetuate inequality in greater detail in the fourth installment."

I genuinely look forward to reading about adrena's fantasy global nuclear apocalypse dream world (though, ahem, isn't planet-wide nuclear holocaust less likely now?) and its roots in porn in more detail!

hapkido April 6, 2009 - 1:02am

no one's worst case scenario is their 'dream world'.

the ties between porn and objectification of people needs be defended?
the ties between annihilation and objectification of people needs be defended?
the ties between the two needs be defended? further?

how about those between ego, power, and subjugation?
and those to obsessive desire, compulsion, addiction?

Zuma April 6, 2009 - 2:37am

well, its pretty easy to make those kinds of supposedly "obvious" and "unchallengeable" links for all kinds of ideas if we're just going to stick to to broad-as-a-whole-barn-door-brushstroke simplistic terms of discussion.

One could state as "self-evident", "undeniable" "truth" for instance:

do the ties between porn and the objectification of people need to be defended?
do the ties between modern mass science and technology and the objectification of people need to be defended?
do the ties between modern mass science and technology and the historically unprecedented alleviation and even eradication of many diseases and illnesses and the suffering they cause that have plagued humanity since the dawn of history need to be defended?

do those between ego, power, and the improvement of quality of life need to be defended? etc. etc. etc.

I'm sure I will be misinterpreted, so let me make clear I am NOT making an argument here to state that porn has directly led to the eradication of many diseases through mass science and technology. I am making this argument to emphasize how lazy this kind of thinking and argument is.

reality is complicated and strange. being defiantly certain of yourself and in denial of the twisted complexity of things and then breaking everything down to plucky little universal home truths without much solid grounding but stil;, that "feel right" in your gut and make you feel you're on the "good" side... this gives you a nice glowy feeling, I'm sure, but its' not very interesting or truthful really.

hapkido April 7, 2009 - 1:46am

ok.

Zuma April 7, 2009 - 3:09am

oops


albatross

dk April 7, 2009 - 6:29am

work, I don't take her work as an attempt to inform feminism. That is to say, I don't believe Adrena is identifying this as a feminist essay nor an essay on feminism. imho

Jeff Wegerson April 6, 2009 - 10:40am

Yeah, that looks kind of weird together now that I look at it again. "Blowing up the planet and pornography" hehehe

I'm pleased that Zuma was able to put it into proper perspective.

My dreams? I hope that the significant others of my two girls will always treat them with respect... that they will cherish them for who they are ... that they will have great wholesome sex that's mutually satisfying. I'm fighting for their future world.


Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.

adrena April 6, 2009 - 8:26pm

This word has been tossed around, used and abused, and is generally employed in an accusatory kind of manner, although often in a sublte way so as not to make it too obvious. Women that seek to please men, dread to be called feminists. And dominators love it when prostitutes call themselves feminists. The sex world is a landscape littered with oxymorons. pain is pleasure; submission is empowering; objectified sex is liberating etc. It's the language of the modern man. And sadly, some women have adopted it too, to please men.

What Jeff Wegerson said is right. I carry no labels.


Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.

adrena April 7, 2009 - 7:24pm

Our tour guide, Wil a Maori who grew up in Te pitowhenua, the birthplace of the modern NZ nations showed great sensitivity in his dicussions of the history of New Zealand, the interactions between the english and other europeans, and the interaction of all "newcomer" groups with the Maori people.

One of the highlights was a look inside the meeting hall which is a memorial of most of the tribes that signed the original treaty.

The entrance however is a bit too confronting for some christians according to Wil, and some tourists will not enter the exhibit. This vulva carving no doubt will strike chords with people familiar with Hawain culture. I wish I had written down Wils words when he spoke about the sacredness of women, and his obvious christian faith that was well integrated with his native culture. He truly was a modern man, more so than the ignorant tourists!

Thanks again for another riveting read, Adrena. Apart from bringing back memories of my NZ trip, it has sparked an interest in revisiting the whole goddess topic. I must go looking for my copy of Goddess that I have not read for twenty years or so.... g-man runs from DK as he tries to decide which book to read

graham April 6, 2009 - 8:27am

Wow, Graham! You made me blush. Thank you.


Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.

adrena April 6, 2009 - 8:10pm

Notes as I read:

Darwin: Darwin's theories are more about the ability to adapt to environmental changes rather than the ability to compete (in my current haphazardly educated view.) Humans with technologies from fire through weaving and stone work to wheels etc made adaptation independent of bodily change.

Polygamy: It would serve them well if polygamy were legalized, along with polyandry and any other desired variant, but with various equality rights guaranteed.

Jeff Wegerson April 6, 2009 - 10:30am

I can't see this happening in my lifetime. You realize that this could never work in a dominator society. We would first have to breed out the "jealousy" gene ... and that might take a few generations.

What about serial monogamy? Isn't that what's already happening now?

And what about the kids?


Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.

adrena April 6, 2009 - 8:07pm

will have lots to figure out.

brodix April 6, 2009 - 9:05pm

Like Cheerios and spaghetti? Spaghetti is the best cereal monogamy stand in I can think of for the male half of a heterosexual coupling of processed grains.

As for legalizing polymorphous marriages, well if you had told me 30 years ago that same-sex couples would marry in my lifetime I would have doubted it. So if you are still under 60 then you have a decent shot at it I would say.

What? The jealousy gene that causes folks that could never handle various simultaneous intimate relationship to be jealous of those that could. And then that jealousy causing them to keep it illegal? Maybe. But only a small minority would try it even if it were immediately legal but that's enough in my book to make it worth it to make them legal.

Actually marriage is an institution designed to foster long-termed-ness whereas likely polymorphous relationships would tend to be naturally fluid with individuals combining and breaking off of long term groupings. So a group that started today might not have any of the original members thirty years later. The group would continue but not necessarily the same individuals. Sort of like corporations in a way.

But I digress into science fiction/fantasy.

Jeff Wegerson April 6, 2009 - 10:48pm

for any cereous sexual coupling. :D

even when it's done "to the teeth"

Wheaties are good fro strength and stamina, but they might be a little "flakey". Cap'n Crunch? now there's a man. flavorful peanut butter balls that never go soggy. being somewhat Bohemian, I tend to go for the Chex Mix, myself.


albatross

dk April 7, 2009 - 6:44am

Don't forget ole Count Chocula.

Jeff Wegerson April 7, 2009 - 7:22am

frightfully de-licious
the eroticism of Dracula is a whole nother ball of wax museums, I'm afrayed.

ok, that's enough from me ;>

wait, the only good use of uncooked spaghetti
ok, I'm done


albatross

dk April 7, 2009 - 7:46am

with my own kids threading spag onto wool..
even have some hanging up on the kids art work display in my dining room..

but HEY great photo, i loved it...

graham April 8, 2009 - 8:41am

in the Globe and Mail about
about Polygamy titled, “A marriage of fear and xenophobia."

Her conclusion that eliminating female discrimination is enhanced by funded day care seemed odd.

Feminism isn't a topic that holds appeal for neither myself nor my daughter who was encouraged to seek an education. She did and became a bank manager. Yes, she did occasionally experience the old boy's network, but chose to ignore it and just got on with her job. I expect both genders recognize prejudice, but don't allow it to affect their development or the professions they choose. It wouldn't make any difference to our lives whether there was or was not a dominator culture.

From an genealogical viewpoint, a matriarchal society would make it easier to trace one's ancestors. I believe there are modern native peoples who retained that structure.

Fascinating thread to read. Thanks Adrena and all those who contributed to it.

canuck April 8, 2009 - 10:57am

You always come across to me as a caring person so I'm really surprised about your "I'm alright, Jack" attitude. Don't you care about the millions of women and children trafficked worldwide for the sex trade? Don't you care about the violence committed against millions of women globally? Don't you care about the hypersexualisation of women and even children in the media etc., etc? I also live a very comfortable life but that doesn't prevent me from caring about others. On the contrary, it makes me care even more. Sorry, Canuck but I really don't understand how you can say what you said.

Thanks for the article. Interesting to know what the legal position is but legalizing polygamy will open many cans of worms including the continuation of gender inequality not to mention an unfulfilled sex life for the women since polygamous men have a lower testosterone level (Can't find the article as I'm not on my own computer but I've posted it before). Why do they always talk about polygamy and never about polyandry? How would the men like that? Considering sex is usually better when it's spontaneous what is a wife in a polygamous marriage to do if he's busy with someone else? Take a number and wait her turn? Last year, an Iranian coalition of women helped stop legislation that would have made polygamy easier in their country. Iran women say no to polygamy

Thanks for the compliment re my essay - it's much appreciated

adrena April 8, 2009 - 7:37pm

only one link provided, my reply is based only on personal experience as to the roots of not being attracted to feminism:

I’m a child of the 40s raised by my grandmother. There were no adult males in the house when I grew up and didn’t begin drawing differences between genders until grade five in a class where for the first time, the teacher was male. His voice was deep, loud and scary; he was also much taller and bigger than what I had encountered close up. One day a female classmate challenged his authority by kicking him in the shins when he attempted to administer corporal punishment using a wicked-looking, leather strap for misbehaviour. It hadn’t dawned on me until she fought back that a much smaller person was capable of defending herself. My fear receded. (Never, ever was I physically punished during my childhood.)

My models during childhood were limited solely to women who were capable, hard-working, strong (both physically and emotionally), intelligent, independent, and managed to get along quite nicely throughout their lives without a male presence.

Never did during my growing years experience a need to compare myself with males even though I had a brother because he was just as well-looked after as me. My 18-month, older brother was the favoured child, but never attributed it to his gender.

The effect of favouritism toward my brother just made me try harder. Never considered myself a victim, which, I believe rightly or wrongly, is present in the feminist movement.

Male authoritism is possible to defeat by not being servile and just doing the best job one can, for the maximum amount it’s possible to get from an employer. Only once, for a short period, joined a union—made it my practice to ask for a higher salary when I felt my case was strong enough to be deserving.

The two genders are different from each. But each needs the other to fill personality vacuums. Biologically men are more muscular and better suited for jobs requiring strength. The field is wide open for any other job/profession except physicality. Estrogen does not promote the same type of personality that testosterone does. Societal values also makes adult males more aggressive and adult females more passive. Doesn't mean as adults, once understood, the learned part of undesirable behaviour can't be modified (but eliminated, IMHO, doubtful.) As adults, we become complex mixes of nature/nurture.

Yes, there are statistics that prove negative, wage disequilibrium as well as poorer working conditions, and women such as me during the 50s and 60s gradually refused to make coffee as well as deliver it. Women who weren’t attracted to the movement, like myself, did get promotions and by returning to school did manage to get entry into professions that paid very well. In the 70s, working conditions had changed for the betterment of women and believed my modest achievements did contribute to that progress.

What disparity there is between genders won’t be cured by continual gender comparison. It will be won by women seeking higher education, entering professions and politics, and not by achieving entry into the old boys clubs. Neanderthals need ignoring...women are just as capable and shouldn't strive to be part of such rank discrimination. Instead, they should just do everything in their power to be the very person they can be. Cream rises to the top.

A great deal has already been achieved, but there remains much more work that needs doing.

The present civilization wasn’t created overnight--it's taken thousands of years. Democratic countries granted women the vote less than one hundred years ago. Believe I would have got along splendidly with Nellie McClung; her wit served her well, plus she wasn't flawless. Progress has been slow, but inroads are being made.

Adrena, don’t dismiss women who aren’t attracted to feminism. It doesn’t mean they don’t feel their sister’s pain. Time is a woman's ally and needs using judiciously. There's more than one approach to skinning cats. Your way suits your personality and life experiences, my way suits mine and seems to be the route my daughter adopted. No, I won't see gender equality during my lifetime on this planet, but likely my great, great granddaughter will.

canuck April 10, 2009 - 1:58am

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Like you, I also come from a family of strong, independent women. I told my story before so there is no need to repeat it again.

Re: feminism, every group and organization has its extreme members that reside on the fringes - there are feminists that are truly anti-men, in every sense of the word. However, one should not diminish the accomplishments of the many great pioneering feminists that worked tirelessly to improve the lives, not only of women, but those of men and children as well.

They lobbied for the repeal of oppressive family laws and access for women to higher education; they worked for more humane treatment of the mentally ill and for public education; they actively worked together with men in the antislavery movement; they also worked with men in the development of the modern labor movement, particularly to outlaw child labor; they brought attention to the exploitation of women and children in the sex trade. And for more than seventy five years they defied ridicule and even threats of violence to argue that half the population should no longer be denied the most basic of political rights: the right to vote. At the time, many men and also women ridiculed this demand as unnatural and unfeminine (Eisler, pg, 250).

Contemporary feminists continue to work on humanitarian issues for the benefit of everyone. However, even today we are conditioned by the mainstream press to view feminism as negative and dangerous. Women’s issues continue to be trivialized. Not surprising then that feminism is even shunned by women who are reaping the benefits from all the hard work done by feminists without whom they still would not have had the right to vote. Feminists do not consider themselves victims and do not wish to be viewed as such. Just as Numerian does not describe himself as a victim because he points out what’s wrong with the financial system and would like to see changes that will benefit everyone. I look at feminists as crusaders - to call them victims is condescending and demeaning.

Although I draw from the work of feminists, the feminist movement alone is not what drives me. My net of compassion is cast wide and embraces all of humanity. I care as much about men as I do about women although it does not always appear that way. To challenge the status quo may appear as an attack when it really is the first step in a process that seeks to heal and redefine what it is that will help men and women value each other.

Finally, there is something else I should mention. Did you ever notice how people who have had a traumatic experience do everything in their power to prevent others from suffering the same fate? Well, something happened to me when I was young that I wouldn’t wish on any woman.

Although I was never physically or psychologically abused at home, I did experience two incidents of violence. The first time was at the boarding school. I’m sure that one of the nuns had all her sexual frustration pent up in her nails. At age 8 when we received our weekly bath, this nun would wash everyone’s hair. While bending me over the bathtub she would rub my head with her nails planted in my scalp so deep that it almost bled. This happened several times. She was a very violent woman.

The second incident was far worse. I do not wish to go into too many details but when I was enrolled into the nursing program in London, England, I had my very first relationship with a man. It started out beautiful but after about approximately 4 months he began to beat me for the slightest infraction. I managed to break free and moved permanently into my room in the hospital residence. Then one day he dropped of a large suitcase filled with gifts. Some of the presents I returned to the store and exchanged them for Christmas gifts for my family. The rest I divided with my girlfriend. I never contacted him. But then he came back again and requested to see me at the reception desk. I naively went to meet him. He took me by the arm and gently motioned me to go outside. As he was sweet talking he guided me to a quiet residential area. Suddenly, all hell broke loose. He grabbed my arm, squeezed tightly, and started yelling before hitting me right in my face giving me several huge blows with the flat of his hand against my right ear, blowing out the eardrum. I was suddenly almost completely deaf since I was already hearing impaired in my lt ear because of a childhood illness. I was also bleeding profusely. At this point, I realized that only one thing could save me. I knew he had a bad knee and that he would never be able to outrun me. I waited for my moment. It came when he saw a water tap at the side of a house and ordered me to go and wash my face. I immediately bolted and ran for my life, too afraid to look back until I reached a very busy main avenue. Huffing and puffing, bleeding and crying I stopped a guy on the street and asked him if he could walk me to the hospital. He refused so I asked him if he could give me directions instead. I followed his arm gestures and figured out I had to make only one turn to get back.

So that is how I became hard of hearing and have had to wear a hearing aid from a very early age. In retrospect, I wish he had beaten me black and blue; at least the bruises would have healed. Instead, I received a life sentence. I was severely traumatized by my hearing loss and have shed many tears. Having to go through life hard of hearing has been and remains an incredibly difficult and trying experience. Over the years I have managed to cope. I am able to hear enough of the world around me with my hearing aid so that I can function. Sometimes I enjoy the ability to temporarily be in a world of total silence when I leave out the aid on purpose.

The boarding school had not prepared me for the real world. I learned my lesson the hard way and as a result became more discriminating in my choices of men I was willing to associate with. I have never been beaten since.

Regarding gender roles, you and I have fundamentally different views. Shortly before he was assassinated, John Lennon publicly announced:

“I like it to be known that, yes, I looked after the baby and I made bread and I was a househusband and I am proud of it”

Men that care for babies tend to respect women, their fellow men and have far less propensity for violence and aggression.


Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.

adrena April 13, 2009 - 9:30am

I'm curious to know why you are so keen on disproving my thesis. Why do you desperately want to be right? What do you hope to achieve by saying that the male aggression and violence that we see today is natural and that it has a biological basis? What is your motive?


Tolerating prostitution is tolerating abuse and torture of women and children.

adrena April 9, 2009 - 12:28pm

there's nothing else to say here.

but thank you for sharing your story above. I imagine it's never an easy thing to remember, and an impossible thing to forget. my congratulations on making lemonade from it; and on now standing your ground in an intellectual pissing match . brava!

dk April 14, 2009 - 9:14am

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