Respiratory Depression. Opiates For Suidicidal Depression ?

Q: I am agnostic to the use of opiates for depression. However, I have no preconceptions that would prevent me from considering their usage. It sure as hell sounds like you do. What is your "beef" against opiates??

A:Opiates ameliorate pain. Depression isn't just metaphorical pain, and it will respond to narcotics. Through numbing and oblivion. But it's tricky, and you walk a fine line between feeling better and feeling strung out. Morphine is the standard narcotic, and it works as follows. There are two distinct pain thresholds, physical and psychological. A plain analgesic dose blocks pain transmission at the physical threshold. This is the lower, more sensitive of the two. What exactly is your personal vendetta against opiates? I've said that this is an area where I think more experimentation should be done. That way some firm conclusions may be drawn about the feasibility of using opiates in *some* cases of depression. I'm not in the position, nor would I be inclined if I were, to substitute opioids for any other successful treatments of depression. I would not have expected such arrogance and biased reporting from anyone but a pusher. Excuse my error. Why do you not lobby the DEA to get the "indications" changed? (I would suggest a tactful approach - and data re the number of sufferers as well as a clinical trial demonstrating the effectiveness of opiates for depression.) Wrong, little one. They and other considerations support my argument. A wiser guy than you has pointed out that there are some intrepid souls who will prescribe opiates for non-terminal chronic pain - more power to them, though I'm not sure how long they sustain this therapy without becoming depressed. (That may be in the articles he posted, which I have not read yet. The articles I HAVE read, say that while tolerance is developed to the pain-relieving aspect, it is not developed to the respiratory depression aspect. There is, unfortunately, in science, much of this sort of disagreement.) Another more, cool-headed type has indicated the difference between using opiates for chronic pain - as opposed to using it for depression, where the temptations to abuse it will be greater. people DO develop tolerance to the respiratory depression from opiates. I had a patient once who was addicted to Dilaudid, and her

*maintenance* dose was 80mg/day! Try giving that to someone not on drugs and see what happens to the respiratory rate...it will quickly become non-existent. I note also, however, that severe pain can cause the respirations to stay to an acceptable level. I once had a patient who was having the grandaddy of all heart attacks, and I recall titrating about 225 mgs of Morphhine IV to him over less than an 8-hour period, and his respirations were still 16 at the end of my shift, surprisingly (and you can betcha I was counting them constantly with every mg I titrated, too, cause I couldn't believe that anybody who was not addicted could take that much and still breathe.)