...that i am kind of glad someone else has now said.

just that's it's sayable; a viable conclusion one could come to no matter how abstractly and without any real belief in the notion, is so telling on where we are at these days.

... if the Intel services and Pentagon would allow that to happen under false pretenses. Such a move really would signal a immediate collapse of everything - Constitutional law and the economy.

up until the last minute, he remains the Decider. He has circumvented the Pentagon before (WMD, compromised intelligence on Iran) and will do it again. Besides, constitutional law and the economy are already in a state of collapse.

... and risks are much different now, as I see it.

Maybe. eom

... not exactly comforting. Any port in a storm.

...movements are really stupid to hand them an opportunity like this. Tell me, do you think pumping the public discourse full of statements to the effect folks should view it as a sign that the institutions of government aren't to be trusted if you get hit, or even threatened, in a way that could disrupt the elections makes it more likely or less likely that someone'll try to pull off such an op? I mean, man, I would love, absolutely love to have you guys as opponents - don't even have to worry about sowing distrust of the institutions of the state, you're already there. Combine that propensity with the stupidity of the administration, and it's a mind-blowingly fertile environment for an asymmetric strategist.

"A survey data set containing imputed values should not be analyzed uncritically as if all the data were real values." ~ Graham Kalton

look, from a strategic point of view I have no argument. However, unless we accept that we are in fact a militarized society -an idea that I reject in principle- and assume the role of every-one-a-soldier, I just don't see the validity of your point.

_Of course_ people who feel and actually are vulnerable will discuss it amongst themselves. Its also relevant that the threat from our government represents a greater threat to us than that from others.

Our government is supposed to -is sworn to- protect _us_ from the asymmetric strategist. The fact is that it is they who enact asymmetric strategies against _us_. The multi-pronged attack on US citizens by an asserted Unitary Executive presumption and the institutions and factions that support such is not a guess or tinfoil fantasy, its a _fact_.

1) Given that the centre of gravity in an asymmetric struggle of this type rests in the couple pounds of grey matter between everyone's ears, it ain't the government that's going to protect against asymmetric strategy - it's individuals themselves. I don't know about you, but the more I keep the gummint out of my grey matter, the safer I am.

2) I would submit that the greatest threat to you is neither transnational and aligned movements, nor your government. The greatest threat is yourselves. The stupidity of this administration has done much to undermine civil society, but the effect has been greatly magnified by the extreme and quite ahistorical nature of the response. This administration belongs firmly in the "this too shall pass" category - then you can get on with repairing the damage and hewing to your society's traditional impulses. These sorts of dire predictions serve only to prolong the disaster and impede the repair, as does the apparent inability to see that the actions of this administration pale against those of, say, the Nixon administration. The country didn't implode due then, and it won't implode now - provided everyone keeps their heads.

3) Sorry, but I don't see the relevance of your point regarding the US being or not being a militarized society. Please elaborate.

4) I don't want folks to shut up. I want them to think, not just about themselves, but about the "other" - the guys out there that pulling ops. Constantly I see folks resolutely refusing to look at events in any way other than through a narrowly defined, overtly partisan, self-referential prism. It's the blog equivalent of the guys in an ops room watching Fox over al-Jaz.

"A survey data set containing imputed values should not be analyzed uncritically as if all the data were real values." ~ Graham Kalton

1) The type citizen awareness you describe has never existed as far as I know. Perhaps in small enclaves it has.

Grey matter intrusion put another way is education. If the government would spend as much effort educating us as opposed to misinforming and manipulating us perhaps we would obtain the trust necessary for accurately distinguishing who the opponent actually is, and what the threats really are. AQ in Mesopotamia? Color coded threat level? Not so much.

2)"The greatest threat is yourselves." Of course, I agree. Generally, we are neither concerned nor vigilant enough. The over-reaction to 9.11 is an excellent example of another sort.

..."magnified by the extreme and quite ahistorical nature of the response." Really? How so? How has citizen response magnified the subverting of civil society? If inaction and shatting ones bed qualifies as a response, I would concur.

"This administration belongs firmly in the "this too shall pass" category" Perhaps, but its far from certain. Precedence has been set in very troubling areas such as signing statements, ignoring subpoenas, political prosecutions, domestic spying, torturing citizens, etc. To assume these Genies will of their own accord retreat whence they came is more than my imagination can conjure.

The dire predictions are at times over the top. No doubt. But in general can serve to motivate others to think in ways that never occurred to them before. New contexts arise around which discussions can be had. Without civic discussion repair will be left to those who did the original damage. As for prolonging the disaster, I'd say it could hardly have done a better job in sustaining itself. There has been little to no opposition and the damage continues to worsen this very day virtually unabated. As for Nixon, its subjective, but I and others would disagree.

3)To me a citizenry combating outside asymmetrical threats involves a mindset involving training, organization, and diligence on par with military thinking. If, say, we had compulsory service, then responsibility could be passed on through proper training and education. We are, afterall, talking about observing and diffusing threats to the country. Such doesn't normally fall under the purview of citizens in our present culture. It would need to be more 'militarized' to accomplish it. Everyone a soldier.

Perhaps I misunderstand you.

4)I can't speak for everyone, natch. But our government actively seeks to keep us in the dark about ops, whether theirs or ours. Overtly partisan, self-referential prisms are a natural affinity exploited for the purpose of keeping us divided and ignorant for their own ends. Its only natural to chafe against the most immediate bindings.

"It's the blog equivalent of the guys in an ops room watching Fox over al-Jaz." Excusable in one case, not the other.

I agree that we should all seek to think more, react less. But while we can all be certain that we have enemies out their plotting our ruin and will at some point make an attempt to do so, again, we can see with our own eyes that there are those here at home who actively work to deprive us of codified and natural rights, of personal sovereignty, and gladly sacrifice our security for personal gain. Cheney is a greater and far more immediate threat to my kids than UBL will ever be. Blowback isn't just a buzzword, either.

were made during nixon of our coming to this present state of circumstances unless lessons learned were heeded -but were ignored as nixon's escapades too were placed in the 'this too shall pass' category. these sort of dire predictions do not impede repair at all but rather serve them. the country has already imploded, and continues to. it seems to me that it seems to many it hasn't yet because it's continuing to! -there may not *be* a bottom to hit. undeniable catastrophe may finally be defined by some as their own stilled tongues.

while this 'this too may pass' for the living, it doesn't for the dead and maimed or the ill-treated veterans or the wretchedness of the children of the working poor or those whom suffer at the hands of this exacerbated orgy of incarceration, torture, violence, pain, and domination. just being here means you are seated at a computer, probably not malnourished, warm, and with electricity. how very many in this country, more than ever at ever accelerated rate, have none of that. incompetence is one thing but this forceful militarization of our country drives the worst aspects and the worst results. our vets are now spat on by those in power to boot -it's insane.

in even our comic books it's reflected -captain america is dead now -and his replacement carries a sidearm. no, things as usual is not the status quo and the message is 'this too is worsening'. (seen the last james bond movie? now try picturing roger moore in the role, strapped naked to a bottomless chair with his balls getting pulverized.)

who is seen as the culprit? us? the citizenry? the culture mavens? the 'government'? no, the passive and the conformists and the enablers and the outright cheerleaders of discord and paranoia and corporatism and militarism within our citizenry and military. ask those of ward 9 in new orleans if that too has passed yet. ask those who have lost their homes to foreclosure. ask the troops and vets and those who cannot even aspire to *those* states of adverse circumstances. ask others of other countries about their realities and what effects by america drive them here in the first place. ask those seeking secession why they are driven to violence now. ask old time pols of any ideology if 'this too shall pass' save but to yet to worsen further. ask NATO commanders what they think of proposed policy changes. ask any careerist of conscience in the military or politics if things as they are will recede to a previous civility or normalcy or status quo. ask mental health professionals if they forecast better days ahead. or any health officials at all for that matter. ask the CDC. or the HIV/AIDS community.

yes, there are better days ahead for those in the prison industry, the law enforcement and security industries, and all the cottage industries surrounding poverty. it's a good time to open a pawn shop or thrift store or church pantry or bail bond agency or dollar store or gun shop or taser boutique -all with credibly secure future prospects of sustained thriving. no worries.

ain't such a bad idea after all!
and i thought it was tongue in cheek when i made it up a coupla years back...

We'll see through that asymmetric BS the same way we see through what's throw at us now.

The ones discussing it here and now are not the ones being fooled.

...I'd say that your certainty is misplaced. Until folks start looking consistently at the "other" in its own terms, the only things they "see through" are phantasms of their own imagination.

"A survey data set containing imputed values should not be analyzed uncritically as if all the data were real values." ~ Graham Kalton

Generalities fail. Whose track record is a definition problem. But since we are talking about a community as a whole the only correct answer is yes, and no.

There are many examples of Liberals, for instance, being exactly right about many things that have turned out rather badly. And examples of over-reach by me that appear to have been wrong headed.

Here at the Agonist there were those who were right about the war, about renditions, torture, various lies told the nation etc. Not all, of course, and not in every instance. You've been around long enough to know what I mean here. I proudly count myself among those who didn't swallow the BS being flung in our general direction, and take no credit for enlightening others. Quite the opposite. I remember when calling BS in the early days of this administration was a lonely place to occupy. Hell, its CW now.

It's a given. No paranoia required. eom