oops

Nov. 08, 2007

As military balks, Chinese public pushes for aircraft carriers

By Tim Johnson
McClatchy Newspapers
(MCT)

TIANJIN, China - On a windswept pier at the Binhai theme park, tourists board an aged Russian aircraft carrier, the Kiev, and imagine what it would be like if China had such a symbol of maritime might.

Along dimly lit passageways, they peer into compartments to see mannequins of Russian sailors loading rockets into firing tubes, manning radars and even entering a sauna.

On deck, simulated jet fighters rest on the rolling tarmac along a runway.

China remains the only major global power without aircraft carriers in its fleet. For years, military leaders have weighed the pride that such vessels would bring the nation with the costs and complexity of operating the giant ships, continually postponing a decision. But now public sentiment is running strongly in favor of launching a program to build aircraft carriers, and some military experts say construction may be inevitable.

"Actually it has almost been decided that the Chinese navy will build carriers," said Xu Guangyu, an analyst and the director of the government-backed China Arms Control and Disarmament Association.

China's military has grown at double-digit rates for nearly two decades and now wields supersonic missiles and nuclear submarines. When it comes to aircraft carriers, though, it's not so much military leaders voicing an operational need as an impatient public demanding construction, experts said.

"There's a feeling among the Chinese public that their nation is a great power, and great powers have aircraft carriers," said Andrew S. Erickson, a civilian scholar at the China Maritime Studies Institute of the Naval War College in Rhode Island. "We've seen grass-roots campaigns that say, `Everyone contribute some money so we can have an aircraft carrier.'"

Top People's Liberation Army officers voiced interest in building aircraft carriers to visiting senior U.S. military commanders this year, peppering them with questions.

"We said to them, essentially, `Knock yourselves out. It ain't as easy as it looks,'" Adm. Timothy J. Keating, the head of the U.S. Pacific Command, said in July. "They acknowledged that and said, `We reserve the right to develop aircraft carriers if we so choose.' They said to us there is no more prominent and visible signal of a nation's resolve and might than an aircraft carrier coming into a port."

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You can almost smell the "ginning up" of this episode into a major outcry for more spending for the pentagon. Hilary and St. John are probably already summoning their speech writers to take advantage of yet another attempt to broaden the empire.

Another lesson in humility for America.
Ahem!!, China with stealth technology, I wonder where it got it?
But aren't they just supposed to produce those cheap things that we find at Wal-Mart?
Their subs aren't really working on baking soda???
And as usual with BushCo, sleeping on the switch, not the "nucular" one but every others.

Didn't we already see this movie?

“It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change.”

Charles Darwin

The only mentions I can find of this story all link back to the same Daily Mail article, and the Daily Mail is a decidedly tabloidy, sensationalist rag--I can't see any reason why they should have news of this when no other source does. I'm inclined to doubt their account.

The Chinese sub was later recalled because it contained dangerous amounts of lead.
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"Adapt or perish." Murphy's Law? Nope, Darwin's Guarantee.

I too have been searching for a second source for this story. Try as I might I can't find one.

I could speculate all day whether this is a case of planted mis-information or actually an embarassing SNAFU by the navy.

In the end, I agree with the earlier poster that it's probably just a ploy by the Daily Mail to sell papers. They've done it before.

The Chinese are real smart people. But you don't have to be that smart to outsmart the Bushites.

That makes it congenitally incapable of seeing the Flip Side?

A more valid headline would be, "Chinese Admirals truly pissed off when stealth sub surfaces bang in middle of US Naval exercise. Heads Roll."

Ah well, I really like this report.... It means two sets of military idiots are worried, angry and upset... which always pleases me. :-)

There is only ever one enemy, and that is the military. It doesn't matter which side they purport to be on.

As told in a mess hall a few years ago...

So a Canadian sub was sitting off the west coast, doing whatever it is Canadian subs do, (which we suspect most days ain't much) when SONAR reported a big contact, which turned out to be a carrier group. So HMCS Name Omitted just hung out being a quiet little hole in the water and took photographs a few hundred yards from the carrier through the periscope. Then, Canadians being known for a sense of humour and all, faxed off to the Pentagon.

Apparently the Pentagon was not amused... :)

"holes in the water into which you pour money."

Umm, I heard "Taking a cold shower in a gale while tearing up $100 bills"...

Old news. I thought I had read about this last year. Here's GSO's take on it. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/song.htm

Just remember, there are two types of warships, submarines and targets.

Diesel-electrics are quiet. On electric drive, most are quieter than the quietest nuc boat which must continue to run various reactor-critical systems (coolant, etc.). I'd be curious to know what the BG was doing when the Song popped up. Was it in transit? If so, then likely the Song did the smart thing and managed to get in front of the group and make like a hole. If it wasn't in transit but was doing ops, what state was the ASW in? We have heard that ASW practices have taken a terrible beating post-GW I, this could be another indicator of it.

It sounds like the real surprise is that the PLAN would operate a diesel-electric in blue water - they're usually dismissed as coastal defense assets.

Carrier BG penetration was the game of the day during the Cold War. We never could completely prevent it by the Sovs when they were in (louder) (possibly crappier) nuc boats, so it looks like the Chinese racked up a point on the board. Tip the hat and go tear a strip off your ASW operators.

I sent an email the other day to the editor but have yet to get a reply..go figure