...is this Blair's revenge?

It was the "it's not my rock any more" smile....

The whole story is weird- finding the explosives because someone tending an ill person saw smoke??????? I don't know what if anything will emerge as an reasonable account.

_{"George Washington did not cross the Delaware for Capitalism," Shmuley Boteach}

Just check all the 5 star hotels in the neighborhood for people having dinners of quail's eggs and caviar with limey tart for dessert.

plus the nature of the "bombs" makes it all pretty suspect.

To make a big kaboom, you need fuel, oxidizer, and a source of ignition. Real explosives pack both fuel and oxidizer in the same compound, hopefully one that isn't too easy to ignite. This is basic stuff that some grade-school kids could probably tell you.

I heard that the "bombs" were based on gasoline and compressed gas cylinders, and that the compressed gas in question was propane... which would make this a bomb with no oxidizer. (There are such things as "fuel-air explosives", but those typically require an initial explosive charge to distribute the fuel in the air.)

So from what I can glean from the news reports, these so-called bombs were constructed and planted either by utter technical incompetents-- which is possible, but would rule out the likes of AQ or anyone who even cared to read up on the matter-- or by someone who wanted to cause a bomb scare without an explosion.

Why would someone want to do that? Why, just after the ascension of a new prime minister who says publically that he recognizes that the people want change (implying "UK out of Iraq and the GWOT")?

I'm doubtful that this is actually terrorism, or rather that it isn't a false flag operation by a presumed friendly state player.

Great conspiracy theories. EOM

but the highly placed conspirators in the worldwide terrorist-bogeyman scare are quite real, and nothing they say can be taken at face value.

A careful reading of these news stories shows that while the MSM is crying islamic terrorism, none of the officials are saying such a thing. I'm holding out my judgements as to who was behind this stuff until some real facts surface.

Independant Media and Politics: www.theseminal.com

the vehicle involved was a Jeep Cherokee? A Jeep Cherokee??? [Stops to scream - "We're all gonna DIE!!!"]

Why does there appear to be this need to hysterically leap to the most extreme causes of an incident, when there are so very many other possibilities - albeit benign ones?

Doesn't anybody realize how many recalls every year of this widow maker is subjected to? Let's look at the six 2001 Jeep Recalls - a slow year by Jeep standards. Usually there are many more.

Why what have we here?

- Loss of brake fluid can lead to a decrease in brake line pressure and an increase in stopping distance, which can result in a vehicle crash. In the presence of an ignition source, a fuel leak could result in a vehicle crash.

- Electrical grommet connectors at the top of the fuel pump module are not compatible with automotive fuels and may degrade causing a fuel leak... that results in a fire.

- Design of the intake and exhaust manifolds could allow debris to accumulate at the #3 cylinder location. This could result in a vehicle fire.

(The 3 remaining recall issues for the 2001 model reference defective amber reflecting lights and baby seat defects.)

Well, let's ditch this turkey and seek out a less incendiary Jeep Cherokee, shall we? Sheesh. No dice. This travelling fire pit is puts out recalls year after year for it's tendancy to burst into flames or its faulty brakes. The 2004 model had several documented cases of the heated seats bursting into flames, before Daimler Chrysler finally bit the bullet and issued a recall. (Anybody with cars equipped with heated seats knows it's very easy to inadverterntly on unknowingly leave them turned on. You forget to switch 'em off or the kids are playing with the switch. (On most vehicles it's just a little rocker switch down between the seats, and not a visible attention getter.) It takes awhile for most seats to warm up and, unless it's already a very warm day, you might not really notice. Obviously, if it was an empty seat left in the on position, it's unlikely you would know it. That wee problem resulted in the recall of 111,000 Jeeps.

Well, you figure Daimler Chrysler may have started to pay attention by now, but noooo. Here's the skinny on the 2007 model:

" December 26, 2006
Chrysler is recalling 62,400 2007 Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep vehicles because the braking system may fail to work. ...n recalled vehicles, instrument panel warning lamps may illuminate and be followed by loss of the anti-lock brake system, traction control and speedometer functions."

Then on July 29, 2006 DaimlerChrysler recalled more than 260,000 Jeep Grand Cherokees because of breaking cooling fan blades and seat fires.

Oh, and did I neglect to mention that the 2002-2006 Jeep Cherokees have all been recalled due to corrosion of ball joints in front suspension with potential loss of steering?

As it happens, the Jeep Cherokee is not considered to be either the most dangerous or the most unreliable of automobiles. However, the extreme nature of its flaws make it an extremely hazardous vehicle, imo.

Maybe these evil doers really are smarter than we think. Some of their ilk go to all the trouble of assembling explosive materials and convincing doubtful persons about the afterlife benefits of martyrdom. The more savvy might just hire a couple of guys and tell them to drive a Jeep Cherokee to the airport.

I was reading that the occupants of this Jeep were wearing boiler suits. Do you suppose this vehicle caught on fire before this incident and the occupants were prepared for this possibility?

Quality is going down in every field.

Some eyewitnesses accounts, for what they're worth. I hope this is not all linked to Salman Rushdie's knighthood, or everyone will look truly crazy. Meanwhile people are being killed in Gaza

BBC - One eyewitness at Glasgow Airport said: "I heard the sound of a car's wheels spinning and smoke coming out.

"I saw a Jeep Cherokee apparently as if it was trying to get right through the doors into the terminal building.

"There were flames coming out from underneath then some men appeared from in amongst the flames.

"The police ran over and the people started fighting with the police. I then heard what sounded like an explosion."

Molotov cocktails

Eye-witness Richard Gray told BBC News 24: "A green Jeep was in the middle of the doorway burning.

"There was an Asian guy who was pulled out of the car by two police officers, who he was trying to fight off. They've got him on the ground.

"The car didn't actually explode. There were a few pops and bangs which presumably was the petrol."

Thomas Conroy, a maintenance worker at the airport believes the men deliberately tried to set the car on fire.

"It looked like they had Molotov cocktails with them," he said.

"They sort of burst them round about the flames to make sure the car would go up big style.

"Within minutes it was up and the terminal caught as well."

---

BBC -

Strathclyde Police Chief Constable Willie Rae revealed a suspect taken to the city's Royal Alexandra Hospital was found to have a suspect device on him.

Two men were arrested following the attack at 1515 BST.

_{"George Washington did not cross the Delaware for Capitalism," Shmuley Boteach}

What do they mean? Like a Bic lighter or something?

Forgive my cynicism. I've raised teenagers. It's left me hysteria challenged.

...protection, he was driven to this:

One eyewitness at yesterday’s attack in Glasgow, Jackie Kennedy, 46, a beautician from the city, described how she watched one of the occupants of the car douse himself in petrol and set himself alight.

“He had a big smirk on his face. He lifted up what appeared to be a five-litre drum, which I think had petrol in it, and set himself on fire,” she said. “His clothes were melting in front of my very eyes.

“The police tried to pounce on him but he fought back and was struggling with them. It was only when a member of the public punched him in the face that the police managed to restrain him. The police were trying to spray CS gas in his face but it was not working. I can’t believe what I have just seen. I have no doubt this was a terrorist attack.”

"Integrity does not mean rigidity, let alone singlemindedness; and conscience, every so often, involves an inner struggle within oneself. ~ John Lukacs

Five years or so from now when, and if, charges are laid and a trial takes place.

A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery

...to see what they wish to see, regardless of what they desire be real or not.

"Integrity does not mean rigidity, let alone singlemindedness; and conscience, every so often, involves an inner struggle within oneself. ~ John Lukacs

with lots of fuel and no oxidizer?

To me, when coupled with the reports of self-immolation, it is evidence that the bombers have little to no idea what they are doing. But I bet that whoever put them up to it knew what they were doing.

I keep hearing things from the MSM about "large-scale, coordinated attacks" and "potential for hundreds of casualties", but those things are not borne out by these incendiary devices-- which look like they'd be no more serious than an average RV burning down.

I'd give a buck to know the exact specifics on what the "viable means of detonation" was. It seems to me that there are two boundary conditions: 1) these guys really were rank amateurs and intended simply to ignite the flammables that they are known to have had, and imagined that a suitable Hollywood outcome would ensue, or 2) they actually knew a bit about what they were doing and had initiation/breaching charges that have not yet been described to us in detail set to disperse and [ideally, very shortly after] ignite the flammables. 1) means they're idiots by definition, 2) may mean they were simply unlucky. If it was 2) then the potential for casualties was actually significant (I'd guess up to fatalities into the tens and potentially injuries in the hundreds, but the big determinant would be how many folks were close to the cars when they went).

We've seen many of these elements before. Some accounts of VBIEDs in Iraq have mentioned gas cylinders (and I think one of the big Najaf ones cooked off a tanker) and IIRC the WTC bomb (and maybe even the Bali bomb) used compressed flammable gases as a component. Similarly, the July 14 bombs in London were 4 squibs for 4. From all of this I tend to lean more towards option 1) and I rather suspect that they didn't have extended contact someone that really knows what they're doing - the weak link is the technological. Were there a specialist that really knew their stuff behind it, well, I'd expect it to have gone off - perhaps not the most sophisticated metric, I admit.

I'd also give a buck to know if Glasgow and London are really related, and if so, how. Were I in a Glasgow based support team for a group I'd sent to London with as yet unrevealed assets for an sustained attack, me I'd go for the diversionary to give my London guys more room to work, especially if I knew that it was only a matter of time before the Yard rolled me up off the forensics-rich undetonated devices. May well be the exact same guys that in Glasgow that emplaced the Mercedes, but may not be either.

"Integrity does not mean rigidity, let alone singlemindedness; and conscience, every so often, involves an inner struggle within oneself. ~ John Lukacs

Jury shown footage of havoc caused by terror attack on Glasgow airport

Steve Bird | October 11

The Times - Video footage of the panic when an Islamic terrorist cell said to contain two NHS doctors drove a car bomb into a British airport was shown to a jury yesterday.

Bilal Abdulla and Kafeel Ahmed were said to have shouted “Allahu akbar” – meaning God is great – and hurled petrol bombs as they drove a Jeep packed with gas canisters into Glasgow airport terminal building, Woolwich Crown Court was told.

The closed-circuit television pictures showed it engulfed in flames and billowing black smoke as holidaymakers, many with children, fled. Some of those who had been queueing at check-in desks were trampled in the mayhem on June 30, the airport’s busiest day last year.

Despite being on fire, Ahmed, 28, could be seen punching and kicking police. A passer-by suffered a broken leg and lost a tooth after Dr Abdulla, the 29-year-old passenger, was said to have kicked and punched him.

more

[Comment: Elapsed time: 1 year, 3 months, 11 days. I await eagerly the lemon defence gambit. ~ JPD]

“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.” ~ Sir Ernest Benn

needs to link up with the other eye witness who said these guys were wearing boiler suits.

Also, you'd have thought, would you not, that these wannabe martyrs would have done the dousing in gasoline part BEFORE smashing into the airport?

Thankfully we've again learned something that puts worried minds at rest. Most evil doers, it turns out, are really, really stupid.

eom

_{"George Washington did not cross the Delaware for Capitalism," Shmuley Boteach}

Incompetence seems to be the one factor that links these incidents.

One eyewitness - the one who punched one of the Jeep occupants said that the Cherokee was too wide to fit through the doors leading into the airport.
Surely even the most delusional of would be bombers would have made sure that they were able to get through the doors!?

The lack of oxidising agents in the London attacks also points to the triumph of intent over competence.

I have no doubt that these were meant as serious attacks - thank God the perpetrators were idiots.

coaching the attack, or a very wealthy car dealer as an associate.

_{"George Washington did not cross the Delaware for Capitalism," Shmuley Boteach}

and the subsequent comments: here

_{"George Washington did not cross the Delaware for Capitalism," Shmuley Boteach}

Another question that occurs to me is - Why did the London 'bombers' use cars?
Surely it would have made more sense to use a van of some sort. Something that didn't have quite so many windows.
If you want your 'bomb' to remain undiscovered until such time as you're ready to detonate it, why use a vehicle which allows any passerby to see the components of your bomb and raise the alarm?

Also, why Mercedes? The perverse nature of the London traffic warden would virtually guarantee a Merc being ticketed and then towed if parked illegally. If the perps had just used a white Transit van, then the bomb would not have been visible and there would have been less likelihood of a warden taking any notice of it.

The more I think about those London 'bombs', the more it smacks of publicity stunt.

...and the target is ringed by the most comprehensive road monitoring camera network in the world, I can sure see going with something less conspicuous and less likely to get stopped. I rather suspect there's a fairly rich vein of "driving a large vehicle while Asian" [i.e., while south asian/muslim] stories in the UK. The determining factor would be whether the vehicle fit in with the ingress route and the area where it had to remain prior to detonation. If the period between emplacement and detonation was brief, the level of scrutiny the device'd have to withstand could be pretty minimal.

"Integrity does not mean rigidity, let alone singlemindedness; and conscience, every so often, involves an inner struggle within oneself. ~ John Lukacs

here

_{"George Washington did not cross the Delaware for Capitalism," Shmuley Boteach}

...if it was me ancestor's ability to toss telephone poles, or their tendency to wear their kilts Paris Hilton style, but I can assure ye we're a fearsome bread.

Aye, that ye are, McMillan, even if ye are a cursed Lowlander. :) But I've learned something here today. I've long been awed by the taber tossing capabilities of the brawny lads, but I didn't know they practiced with telephone poles. Maybe that explains the lousy phone service in many parts of Scotland. Heh.

But among the first to be evicted. (Now my maternal grandfather was a Wishard, and they were lowlanders.)

the lad at the airport will have wrestled a nuke to the ground and dim Londoners almost done in by a couple of hard-as-nails molls called Mercedes...

Or is that Irish jealousy in me speaking?

---

Nonetheless, if there'd been dead travellers in Scotland, we couldn't be writing this

_{"George Washington did not cross the Delaware for Capitalism," Shmuley Boteach}

if you seriously wanted to strike fear and trembling into the hearts of Brits everywhere, why would you choose to carry out a dastardly deed in Glasgow? Uhm, like duh! And if you did, for some bizarre reason decide that misfortune befalling Glasgow would resonate further than a few miles down the road, why the airport? Glasgow is a major seaport. I dunno. I don't get it with the current crop of "tearists".

you can go to Conspiracy Planet to learn:

London Bomb 'Not Scary Enough,' Brown Tells MI5

or its opposite : The Counterrerorism Blog

alas, real info is not in the unfolding stage......

The Queen was in Scotland today, George Brown is Scots, however not the work of the Scottish Independence Movement, I think.....

_{"George Washington did not cross the Delaware for Capitalism," Shmuley Boteach}

says ABC's The Blotter - the comments:

I would be more impressed if you told me of a threat two weeks from now that came true.

and

Two weeks ago?
Fat lot of good that did anyone.
If there had been a properly constructed bomb in the vehicle at Glasgow, it doesn't appear anything was put in place to stop it!

_{"George Washington did not cross the Delaware for Capitalism," Shmuley Boteach}

"now, don'tcha worry Tony, we'll take *good* care ofya. We'll have yer buddies running like scared rats, won't even take a week..."

-5.75,-4.05 "I am in earnest; I will not equivocate; I will not excuse; I will not retreat a single inch; and I will be heard."
William Lloyd Garrison
US abolitionist & editor (1805 - 1879)

One eyewitness at yesterday’s attack in Glasgow, Jackie Kennedy, 46, a beautician from the city...

Jackie Kennedy? Wow. Now there's a story!

pretty clearly indicate that as of Sunday the vehicle was intact:

They would not have gone from that to a controlled demolition.

"Integrity does not mean rigidity, let alone singlemindedness; and conscience, every so often, involves an inner struggle within oneself. ~ John Lukacs

2 More Men Arrested in Glasgow Probe

Rob Harris | July 2 | Glasgow

AP - Police said Monday they had arrested two more men as suspects in the car bomb attack on Glasgow airport as details emerged that authorities had been close on the trail of the suspects, one of whom may have been a local doctor.

Rental agent Daniel Gardiner, whose company leased a Glasgow-area home searched by police, said authorities contacted his firm just ahead of Saturday's airport attack.

Strathclyde police said two men, ages 25 and 28, had been detained under the Prevention of Terrorism Act, correcting an earlier report one suspect was 20 years old.

``This continues to be a fast-moving investigation and I am grateful to the public for their perseverance and support during these difficult times,'' Assistant Chief Constable John Malcolm said.

[snip]

He said the man was seen leaving the house wearing a stethoscope and was thought to be a doctor at the Royal Alexandra Hospital in Paisley on the outskirts of Glasgow. A controlled explosion was carried out Sunday on a car left at the hospital. Police said it was linked to the airport attack.

[emphasis added]

[Comment: Interesting that a number of the suspects are thought to be physicians. I'm reminded of Marc Sageman's comments to the effect that al-Q players have commonly been pretty well educated, but almost always in fields other than the social sciences. Ambiguity's a bitch for zealotry. ~ JPD]

"Integrity does not mean rigidity, let alone singlemindedness; and conscience, every so often, involves an inner struggle within oneself. ~ John Lukacs

It looks like they went to the hospital and blew up somebody else's car. The article I read didn't make that clear. Skoozie.

"He said the man was seen leaving the house wearing a stethoscope".

Not only terrifying, but apparently shameless, too.

http://www.juancole.com/2007/07/jordanian-iraqi-physicians-behind-uk.html

Australian police quiz second doctor

and a snip from

Second doctor quizzed
(snip)The Independent newspaper reports that a suspected militant cell linked to al-Qa'eda has been using British hospitals as cover.

Britan's Muslim News reported that a 26-year-old doctor arrested at the weekend in the UK over the bomb plots may have been mistaken by authorities for a doctor who moved to Australia.

The man arrested in the UK was using a mobile phone chip and internet account that had previously belonged to the doctor that moved to Australia, it said, adding that the two doctors worked at Halton Hospital, in north-west England.

--------------------------------------------------
It
still as yet makes no sense to me. Ideologies or medical oaths aside, doctors are not technologically stupid.

_{"George Washington did not cross the Delaware for Capitalism," Shmuley Boteach}

Ideologies or medical oaths aside, doctors are not technologically stupid.

But maybe everyone is on the wrong track in digging for an Al Kyeeeda connection here. Maybe what we're looking at here is the dawning of a world wide association of violent physicians who hate our freedoms, and all headed up by a small, select cadre of evil neurologists. Yes. It's all starting to become crystal clear. (Note to self. Must ask Dave about this.)

here

_{"George Washington did not cross the Delaware for Capitalism," Shmuley Boteach}

...training and I didn't note them receiving much training in explosives. And given that I actually regularly discussed improvised explosives around the dinner table, I think it would have come up. ;)

Knowing a lot of physicians I have to say they're about as technically adept as the rest of the population. Now, if you ask them they may well tell you that they're more technically adept than the population but, having had to rescue a number of them from various of their foibles, I'm skeptical.

"Integrity does not mean rigidity, let alone singlemindedness; and conscience, every so often, involves an inner struggle within oneself. ~ John Lukacs

where I discussed improvised explosives, I grant you this one, JPD.

But I have had to sit in a dentist chair, unable to speak, while my excellent dentist talked complete rubbish about Iraqi politics:-)

_{"George Washington did not cross the Delaware for Capitalism," Shmuley Boteach}

...complete rubbish about their politics, he can certainly be excused. ;)

Semi-seriously, I listened to a podcast with the Iraqi foreign minister the other day and it was truly alarming. The interviewer was trying to get across to him that the American public was in the process of pulling the plug on his government and his country and he was remarkably resistant to that reality...

"Integrity does not mean rigidity, let alone singlemindedness; and conscience, every so often, involves an inner struggle within oneself. ~ John Lukacs

Psst, Dave. I heard there were some guys wearing trench coats and fedoras around here looking for you. I can't remember who told me. Apparently they want to know the names of those physicians and the nature of your interesting discussions.

With the myriad of "speculations" posted, it will be interesting to see how all this pans out. I'll wait patiently.

I really think he meant physicists.....as in Abdul Qadeer Khan. He is sneaky that way. ;)

...none of them retained much. Seemed to mostly get squeezed out by things like the role of potassium ions in the heartbeat and equally practical things for them to know.

"Integrity does not mean rigidity, let alone singlemindedness; and conscience, every so often, involves an inner struggle within oneself. ~ John Lukacs

The last appearance for some of them was May 7 over the conditions under which they are being held (they're being held in the special protection unit). My impression is that they are proceeding against the accused young offenders first (they had a preliminary hearing back in mid-January) and will then go after the adults. Dunno whether they've yet set a trial date for the young offenders.

"Integrity does not mean rigidity, let alone singlemindedness; and conscience, every so often, involves an inner struggle within oneself. ~ John Lukacs

...turned up from the cellphones and then followed into other streams of inquiry. There are media accounts to the effect that one of the guys snatched up is perhaps not the guy the police should really be seeking, but was using a SIM originally registered to another gentleman (the guy detained in Australia, IIRC).

"Integrity does not mean rigidity, let alone singlemindedness; and conscience, every so often, involves an inner struggle within oneself. ~ John Lukacs

which speculates:

It is possible that many of those involved in the weekend's attempted attacks are known to the police and MI5, but have not been arrested as there was insufficient evidence.

_{"George Washington did not cross the Delaware for Capitalism," Shmuley Boteach}

I know I'm getting anal on this, so I'm logging out to take a walk in the sun.(and (no connection) after running a virus check, as something weird is happening with my laptop).....

from The Independent:
The failed car bomb attacks in London early on Friday morning involved two Mercedes saloons. They had been packed with gas cylinders, petrol and nails with two mobile telephones acting as detonators. The bombers had, according to a security source, tried to detonate the car outside Tiger Tiger bar with four phone calls. Two calls had been made to the car in Cockspur Street, which was later towed away to a car pound. The bombs failed because of a technical mistake.

_{"George Washington did not cross the Delaware for Capitalism," Shmuley Boteach}

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see contact with al-Qa`eda in Iraq, but I'm not at all certain that one should really label that al-Qa`eda in the truest sense.

"Integrity does not mean rigidity, let alone singlemindedness; and conscience, every so often, involves an inner struggle within oneself. ~ John Lukacs

Though MI5 insists none of the suspects arrested in connection with the plot were under surveillance, the mobile phones detectives recovered from the would-be car bombs contained details that matched material on the security service database. Counter-terrorism officials say data from the phones and email traffic was checked on the database used by MI5, MI6 and GCHQ, the government's eavesdropping centre. Connections were found linking that information and communications abroad, which enabled the police and security services to speed up their investigations in Britain.

One wonders how big that database is and what the criteria are for collection, exactly.

"Integrity does not mean rigidity, let alone singlemindedness; and conscience, every so often, involves an inner struggle within oneself. ~ John Lukacs

Police link suspects held over failed attacks

The Independent. - Dr Asha was included in MI5's "watch list" after posting a message on the internet condemning the Danish cartoons of Mohammed, according to security sources. Dr Bilal Abdulla is also said to have come to the notice of the security service, after visiting Islamist websites.

---

also noteworthy in the article:
Dr Abdulla was born in Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire. His father, Talal, a Sunni, studied as a rheumatologist in Britain and ran a private clinic in Baghdad until two years ago. He then fled to Arbil, in the north of the country, after being intimidated by Mahdi Army militiamen of the radical Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr. Around the same time a close friend of Bilal was killed by a Shia death squad, adding to his bitterness, according to Shiraz Maher, who met him while studying in Cambridge.

It was reported in the US media that Dr Abdulla may have been recruited to carry out the British attacks by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the now dead leader of the group al-Qa'ida in Iraq.

_{"George Washington did not cross the Delaware for Capitalism," Shmuley Boteach}

...and the evidence is a poorly written article from a news aggregator (apparent motto "All the News that's Fit to Garble in the Rewrite").

Three points:

a) Clearly the author can't quite distinguish between flammables and explosives, give that they also believe the London cars to have been similarly "packed with explosives".

b) You'd be amazed at what percentage of badly burned corpses are actually identified from identification papers carried inside their wallets.

c) Yeah, of course clearly the what was it, "wily ky-ee-das" would have gone to all the trouble of putting someone through med school in order to infiltrate them into the NHS. Or they could have pursued the more direct alternative of finding physicians that had a beef with UK policy.

"When intelligence producers realize that there is no sense in forwarding to a consumer knowledge which does not correspond to his preconceptions, then intelligence is through." ~ Sherman Kent

Also, I remain very puzzled as to why those wily ky-ee-das would devote vast amounts of time and money educating doctors and placing them in western hospitals

---

I am not sure which source alleges that the physicians were trained as doctors by Al-Q. I haven't seen any.

However, the Independent's point on Dr Abdulla, which (whether or not it's correct is being ignored by most Al-Q proponents), does state in the current lead above:

Dr Abdulla was born in Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire. His father, Talal, a Sunni, studied as a rheumatologist in Britain and ran a private clinic in Baghdad until two years ago. He then fled to Arbil, in the north of the country, after being intimidated by Mahdi Army militiamen of the radical Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr. Around the same time a close friend of Bilal was killed by a Shia death squad, adding to his bitterness, according to Shiraz Maher, who met him while studying in Cambridge.

This scenario fits in quite nicely with the 'Iraq invasion increased terrorism potential' thought, denied by many governmental types.

_{"George Washington did not cross the Delaware for Capitalism," Shmuley Boteach}

So a bunch of guys with similar ethno/cultural backgrounds and similar interests worked at the same place and knew each other.

Well, duh.

How do we get from there to blowing up Mercedes and trying to kill themselves?

Hey,maybe it's true. Maybe they're guilty as can be. Maybe crazy, dusky skinned, non-Christian, mad scientists .... er, make that mad neurosurgeons.. really are plotting the overthrow of the world as we know it, one Mercedes at a time. I just prefer to wait for the charges and the trial, thanks.

but I don't put a lid on posting interesting,detailed speculations about x degrees of separation;-) so long as I think they have some additional information as well.

I doubt that mention in the Agonist of a story already printed and cited elsewhere is going to ruin the reputation either of the Agonist or of any of those involved.

Getting picked up by the police and then released, on the other hand, is much more likely to have a permanent effect.

And I don't post every idiot story on meetings of dusky-skinned individuals. Right now, there are no further articles I see that do anything more than add to the emotion without information. At least the London papers can concentrate on their Tube outage from yesterday.

I am not too happy with one of the convictions today on cyberterrorism in London- the one involving "hoarding terrorist documents" - the money laundering part is a different story.

_{"George Washington did not cross the Delaware for Capitalism," Shmuley Boteach}

Unknot yer knickers, nymole. My "Duh" was definitely not directed to you but to the Cambridge writers of the terrorist social column. I absolutely agree with you - posting viewpoints gleaned from credible sources, including idiotic and/or conflicting views, is part of the reason the Agonist is such a great site. They make you think. They make you question. For instance, since I very much doubt the editorial staff of a local UK newspaper has the resources to independently seek out all this top secret stuff, I presume they have regurgitated much of it from a source they themselves considered credible. Which department that might be is a pretty easy guess. Incidentally, in another peek behind the screen, a spokesman for UK security was on telly (BBC) yesterday making a pitch for keeping terrorism suspects in the dungeon for an unlimited period of time. One might be forgiven for perceiving that either relevant hard evidence is hard to assemble in this case, or neurosurgeons are more resistant to interrogation "techniques" than your average dusky skinned bloke.

cause in this case I also don't know there wasn't a terrorist plot:-)

_{"George Washington did not cross the Delaware for Capitalism," Shmuley Boteach}

Me too.

By the way, did you notice? Though it's been obliquely mentioned in earlier reports, we have this, just in from the "When is a doctor not a doctor" department - regarding Ahmed, the guy badly burned at the Glasgow airport. Turns out he's from Bangalore, India,
Doctor

and "It was initially thought that Mr Ahmed was a medical doctor. However, it was reported today that he has a doctorate in aeronautical engineering and has studied at Queen's University in Belfast and Anglia Polytechnic University in Cambridge.

So now that the crack investigators of Britain's terrorism force have figured out that there is such a thing as a non-medical doctor, hopefully they can provide guidance to the citizenry about why an engineer would have been performing hospital surgeries? (Twisted enough for yez, nymole?)

Anyway I presume the investigation has now expanded to track down a world wide cell of evil neurowurgeons and aeronautical engineers. What a task. They'll definitely need to hire lots more staff.

Five will get you 10 that sonebody with a doctorate in aeronautical engineering, even if he barely squeaked through, probably

1. has the ability to judge how wide a space is relative to the width of a thing you're trying to push through it.

and

2. possesses a good deal of knowledge about what is needed for explosions to occur.

Anybody know what his thesis subject was? It must be out there somewhere.

Queens"

to prepare yourself for self-immolation 5 years later?

Hey. It could happen. Maybe it did.

so that point, while reasonable, is not particularly convincing to me.
If it were two weeks after graduation- yes.

_{"George Washington did not cross the Delaware for Capitalism," Shmuley Boteach}