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Israeli-Hezbollah Conflict Open Thread XIII

Team Agonist - This is the Twelfth Middle East Crisis open-thread. Please post all developments, news stories, comments, links, theories, ideas, etc. . . here in this thread. The earlier threads by number are I - II - III - IV - V - VI - VII - VII - IX - X - XII. If you post comments in this thread, please do not post identical news articles in the newsqueue.

Israel to Put Lebanon Offensive on Hold

Israel will hold back a new ground offensive in Lebanon until the weekend to give cease-fire efforts another chance, senior government officials said Thursday, a day after Israel's Security Cabinet approved a major expansion of the month-long war.

But prospects for a quick cease-fire resolution by the U.N. Security Council were uncertain, with the United States and France still divided over a timetable for an Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon.

France wants Israel to pull out once hostilities end, while the United States backs Israel's insistence on staying in southern Lebanon until a strong international force is deployed, which could take weeks or months

Israel opts to expand ground war in Lebanon

Israel decided on Wednesday to expand its ground offensive in Lebanon, increasing the pressure on major powers struggling to win agreement on a United Nations resolution to end the four-week-old war...

...Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's security cabinet authorised the move to send troops further, possibly to the Litani river, up to 20 km (13 miles) from the border, to strike at Hizbollah and halt its rocket attacks into Israel...

...A senior Israeli political source said the expanded offensive could last 30 days. "The military presented its timetable, saying it needed at least 30 days, and this was endorsed by the cabinet," the source said.

US, France at odds over Lebanon Demand

The United States and France appeared divided over a Lebanon demand for a withdrawal of Israeli forces.

The original draft resolution -- co-sponsored by Paris and Washington -- called for a complete cessation of Israeli-Hezbollah hostilities. But Arab diplomats demanded it also call for a full Israeli withdrawal.

France proposed new language including that demand, but the U.S. said that a complete withdrawal without an international force would create a vacuum in southern Lebanon.

August 8 Updates and map after the jump.

Tactical Update, August 8:

The area around Bent Jbail, Lebanon, has again become the most intractable sector for Israeli operations along the border, although fighting remained intense in a number of other villages Aug. 8. An Israeli Puma combat engineer vehicle was hit by a Hezbollah anti-tank rocket or missile in Dibel. Reports suggest that, in addition to several anti-tank guided missiles, Hezbollah is equipped with the RPG-29 (an advanced version of the rocket-propelled grenade), which has both effective anti-tank and thermobaric anti-personnel rounds.

Israeli Soldiers Find a Tenacious Foe in Hezbollah

Late last week while guarding a house in southern Lebanon that Israeli forces were using as a command post, Cpl. Matan Tyler received an unusual order from his commander: Watch out for guys wearing Israeli uniforms.


Sean Paul Kelley August 9, 2006 - 3:03pm
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( categories: AgonistWire | Arabia | Israel and Palestine | Levant | USA: Foreign Relations )

Israeli minister wants to prolong the war

Minister Ezra: Hizbullah is breaking down

On eve of cabinet meeting, in which ministers are expected to decided whether to expand military operation to Litani River, cabinet member tells Ynet, 'if we stop now, it’s like we didn’t do a thing'
Ronny Sofer

Is Minister Gideon Ezra seeing something new? The cabinet ministers are expected to meet Wednesday morning to decide whether to expand the military campaign to the Litani River.

Several hours before the meeting, one of the cabinet members, Environment Minister Gideo Ezra, told Ynet that "Hizbullah is showing signs of breaking down. The Hizbullah members kidnapped by the IDF in their sleep reveal that the organization is tired."

According to Ezra, "we should wait and continue the fighting. I estimate they can be broken down. Israel cannot belittle even one quarter of a rocket, not to mention hundreds and thousands. Even one rocket a week makes the entire north crazy. If we stop now, it's like we didn’t do a thing."

Many of the government ministers share Ezra's view, and will be required to decide whether to accept Defense Minister Amir Peretz's request and the Israel Defense Forces' demand to expand the operation.

Ezra: "Israel must not agree to the ongoing rocket fire at any cost. The diplomatic activity to stop the rocket fire must be the result of out military activity. The power of the enemy standing in front of us is undoubtedly decreasing."

Minister Ezra believes that the government is doing the right thing and that Prime Minister Ehud Olmert is required to measure his steps between the demands of the Americans, on the one hand, who are working to reach a ceasefire, and the Israeli military activity which is aimed at breaking Hizbullah's rocket launching capabilities.

Like Olmert , Ezra also believes that Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora's proposal to station a force of 15,000 soldiers in southern Lebanon is interesting and should be examined. He expects a multinational force to be stationed in southern Lebanon with the authority to use weapons after Israel's military operation is completed.

According to Ezra, "the rockets must be eliminated and we must leave a fenced and clear area with a border in the south and in the north, into which the multinational force will enter. The border in the north can be the Litani, and in the south it is of course the Blue Line, the international borderline between Israel and Lebanon. Until the force arrives, the military operation must continue."

link

stunster August 8, 2006 - 3:14pm
The fighting and killing continues

.....only because Israel wants it to.

Let's be honest about it. It's obvious that Hizballah and everyone else in Lebanon would welcome a halt to the war right now. Israel is now in full punitive mode however, and this can only lead to more and worse warfare in future. Sadly, I don't think Israel cares. What they really want is war against Iran.

7 IDF soldiers wounded in anti-tank fire in Bint Jbail

Three IDF soldiers killed in heavy fighting in southern Lebanon

By Amos Harel and Eli Ashkenazi, Haaretz Correspondents, and Agencies

Three Israel Defense Forces soldiers were killed and at least 15 wounded in southern Lebanon on Tuesday where heavy battles between IDF troops and Hezbollah have been raging since late Monday.

Seven IDF soldiers were wounded, one moderately when their unit came under anti-tank fire during clashes in Bint Jbail Tuesday evening. Another tank that arrived on the scene was hit by explosives, but there was no word of injuries in that incident.

The IDF said that two reservist soldiers were killed early Tuesday, during fighting in the southwestern Lebanese village of Labouna. Another soldier was moderately wounded and a fourth sustained light wounds.

One of the slain soldiers was identified as Gilad Belachsan, 28, from Carmiel.

Another soldier was killed late Monday when Hezbollah fighters fired an anti-tank missile at an IDF "Puma" armored personnel carrier in the village of Dibel, close to Bint Jbail. He was named as Philip Mosko, 21, of Maaleh Adumim. Five other soldiers were lightly wounded in the battle.

Tuesday morning, two soldiers were seriously wounded in heavy exchanges of fire in the area near Bint Jbail. Two Hezbollah men were killed in the clashes.

IDF troops began battling Hezbollah gunmen in Labouna on Monday night. Overnight, soldiers killed seven Hezbollah fighters, and captured another five Lebanese suspected of belonging to the organization.

Three IDF soldiers were killed and nine others wounded Monday in fierce battles with Hezbollah.

On Tuesday morning, the third soldier killed in the fighting the day before was named as Staff Sergeant Noam Meirson, 23, from Jerusalem.

The two other casualties were named Monday as Major Yotam Lotan, 33, of Kibbutz Beit Hashita and Staff Sergeant Malko Mosha Ambao, 22, of Lod.

An Israel Air Force strike hit the southern Lebanese village of Ghaziyeh on Tuesday, killing 14 people and wounding 24 more while mourners were burying 15 relatives killed in an IAF bombing the previous day.

At least two rockets hit Ghaziyeh during the funeral, though not in the immediate vicinity, a Reuters journalist reported.

Rescue workers said the air strike on two homes had killed one person and wounded five. They were working to save another person trapped under the rubble.

An air strike destroyed a three-storey school building in the village of Maaroub, 15 km east of the southern city of Tyre. Khalil Moussa, the school's janitor, told Reuters that his wife, three children and a teacher were under the rubble.

"I couldn't do anything to help them," he wept. "They might be still alive. We have to remove the rubble quickly."

On Monday evening, the IDF warned residents of south Lebanon that a curfew was to be imposed, saying anyone moving around outside after 10 P.M. (1900 GMT) would be at risk, a military source said.

"Anyone who does travel is taking a high risk. There is no end period," the source said. "This will allow us to track anyone potentially trying to launch rockets."

The source said the restriction on movement applied anywhere south of the Litani river, which is roughly 20 km from Israel's northern border. He did not specify how the warning had been delivered.

General Staff officers believe that the political leadership will approve an expansion of the ground offensive in the near future. Nevertheless, the officers are waiting to see how the new initiative by the Lebanese government to deploy 15,000 soldiers in the south will be welcomed.

link

stunster August 8, 2006 - 3:57pm
Stunster, I don't believe your conclusions are quite true

The Israeli army has always struck fear in Arab countries by winning its wars. This one, however, has not been won by their troops or technology. By Hizbullah resisting successfully, Israel is fearful that its loss will be interpreted by Arab countries as a victory, and there will be nothing to stop other countries and/or terrorists from launching missiles and mortars into Israel.

Sure, Iran is supplying Hizbullah through Syria, but the dominant fear is the psychological advantage of Israel's army not being able to be an intimidating deterrent against future attacks. If that was in place, they probably wouldn't hesitate to agree to the end of hostilities. They keep fighting hoping they will be able to gain the advantage--rather fruitlessly I would surmise. Hizbullah will not be destroyed. Israel deployed the wrong tactics with the air attack and when that became apparent, they launched what for them is a small ground force invasion. That isn't working either and they're desperate for a victory which won't be forthcoming despite their wishful thinking. They would have to incur massive loss of lives for Israeli ground troops and I don't believe their electorate would be able to digest that much of a sacrifice. Underestimation and poor tactics is also their villian.

canuck August 8, 2006 - 4:31pm
No, they want the war to go on

because they see it as a first stage of an ultimate showdown with Iran, as this article makes clear:

....For limited objectives, proportionality may suffice. But when the strategic objectives are far-reaching proportionality will defeat its purpose.

.... In order to overcome the Iranian threat, it is vital that the current campaign against its extended arm in Lebanon be decisive as well.

Prof. Uzi Arad is the Founding Head of the Institute for Policy and Strategy at the Lauder School of Government, Diplomacy and Strategy of the Interdisciplinary Center Herzliya

Link

This is why the Bush Administration is working so hard to block a cease-fire. This war is all about securing Israel's northern border in preparation for the coming attack in Iran.

stunster August 9, 2006 - 2:13am
This is what they really want

from the article posted:
"According to Ezra, "the rockets must be eliminated and we must leave a fenced and clear area with a border in the south and in the north, into which the multinational force will enter. The border in the north can be the Litani, and in the south it is of course the Blue Line, the international borderline between Israel and Lebanon. Until the force arrives, the military operation must continue."

So until every village is raze to the ground, every farm wrecked, every indigenous family uprooted and made destitute refugees -from the border to the Litani- this war will continue. And why? So racist pricks from Brooklyn can make "alliyah" to a stolen land that doesn't even have enough water for the present inhabitants, and only makes do by stealing Syria's water from the Golan Heights and Palestinian water from the Westbank. And now the bastards want to finally get the Litani and, ideally, have our soldiers die for them to get it. Sick and depraved.

Them? No, like the old story, what do you expect from a scorpion? They'be been murdering and despoiling Arabs ever since the first Zionists arrived in Palestine - what else is new? I meant us for allowing our governments to aid and abet the same warcrime that our grandfathers hung the Nazis for and we supposedly bombed Serbia to prevent. And now we are helping out. What does that say about us?

"Who controls the past controls the future,ran the Party slogan, Who controls the present controls the past"

ersatzprofessor August 8, 2006 - 5:03pm
ersatzbrain, you are as sharp as spoon

Dear ersatzbrain,

If you think Israel "doesn't even have enough water for the present inhabitants", and that's why it can't support more jews, than surely you are against the "right of return" for "palestinians". After all water shortage is not just an excuse to discriminate jews from coming, is it? That would make you racist, which apperantly an educated and enlightened person such as yourself can not be.

As for the rest of your enlightments,
woa baby are you on to us!

Surely, being the blood thirsty bustards we are we have "been murdering and despoiling Arabs ever since the first Zionists arrived in Palestine". Can you be more specific and give such early examples? All I seem to find are examples for the other way around (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebron). Silly me.

All we want to do is destroy every village and every farm in Lebanon, but statistics is againt us.
Hizballah is something we invented as an excuse to blow Lebanese up just for fun, it doesn't really exist. That is why all the casualties are innocent civilians and none is Hizballah.

Ah yes, the Litani, that's where we allways wanted to be.
"are we there yet?".

Where do you come up with such crap?
Seek help.

Isra123 August 8, 2006 - 7:05pm
From your own politicians

Isra123,

Thanks for the reply. And thanks also for not denying that Israel does have a severe water shortage and that it has indeed been stealing water from the Occupied West Bank and the Golan Heights. It saves me the trouble of providing links.

“If you think Israel "doesn't even have enough water for the present inhabitants", and that's why it can't support more jews, than surely you are against the "right of return" for "palestinians". After all water shortage is not just an excuse to discriminate jews from coming, is it? That would make you racist, which apperantly an educated and enlightened person such as yourself can not be.”

Well, to tell the truth I tend to privilege the return of refugees forced from their homes over the immigration of people who have a purely imaginary connection to it. At the very least, I would prefer it if it was not still happening in the Westbank as we speak. As far as the water shortage goes I would, in any event, probably privilege severely curtailing irrigation over killing other people to steal their water. But maybe that's just me.

"Surely, being the blood thirsty bustards we are we have "been murdering and despoiling Arabs ever since the first Zionists arrived in Palestine". Can you be more specific and give such early examples? All I seem to find are examples for the other way around (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebron). Silly me."

Really? Just what search engine are you using for that? I'm sorry, but what you just said is simply too stupid to bother replying to, and I'm sure you know that yourself.

"All we want to do is destroy every village and every farm in Lebanon, but statistics is againt us."

No, just in that 25 km zone from the blue line to the Litani. And from reports I've read, it seems your boys are off to a good start.

Ah yes, the Litani, that's where we allways wanted to be.
"are we there yet?".

Yes and no. Yes, that is where you've always wanted to be: //www.bintjbeil.com/water/david_paul.html

And no, you're not quite there yet. But that's the plan, isn't it?

"Who controls the past controls the future,ran the Party slogan, Who controls the present controls the past"

ersatzprofessor August 9, 2006 - 12:02am
The plan

Water shortage is a world wide problem.
Yes Israel has water shortage. So does California. Do you think people should not be allowed to move to Califorina?
Desalination is the answer and we have been doing it for years.

As for "murdering and despoiling Arabs ever since the first Zionists", I've looked up the exact phrase you used, and found an essay that quoted one opinion of a jew about mistreating arabs, but said nothing about killing, and that is a big differece. I will spare you the details of the horrible way by which the jews of Hebron were slaughtered for example.
For background on the origins of the conflict see Joan Peters' book "From Time Immemorial".

Have't had time to go over all the details in the bintjbeil doc
you specified, will try to do so soon, but it seems just "a little" one sided, and seeing only one side of the story is not a very clever way to make judgement.

"Destroying" south Lebanon:
Read about Hizbullah's tactics (including what the UN says on the subject), then you will understand why many houses are damaged and many people get killed (the percentage of Hizbullah fighters among them is much higher than Hizbullah admits.)

Litani:
As an Israeli I can promise you we do not want an inch of Lebanse soil over the blue line, and that is not rhetorics.
When there was a dispute between Israel and Egypt after the peace agreement was signed, there was a dispute about the border line near Taba. Both sides agreed on international verdict, they won the case and got it without any trouble.
We will not accept a situation in which a fundamental para-military organization that wants our country destroyed sits on our border aiming over 11,000(!) rockets and long range missile on our cities,
shelling us from time to time (even before the latest kidnapping.)
Would you?
To remove the threat we will go as far as needed.
Once the threat is removed (according to UN resolutions) we will
go back gladly into Israel behind the blue line.
If Lebanon thinks the border mark is incorrect (in the area they call the Shab'a farms) then they should take it to the UN. Israel will
react according to any fair ruling.

Thats the plan.

Isra123 August 9, 2006 - 6:51pm
The UN not a good source to run to

Considering that Isreal has a few resolutions it needs to comply with itself and taking note of how many have been vetoed by the US in the past, often alone in the SC.

I'm sure you are sincere in what you say, about the plan, but the problem is, you're not the one in charge.

Carib

Caribdude August 10, 2006 - 1:47am
UN and Israel + who's running things in Israel

Carib, it's true that I'm not the one in charge.
Still, it is my belief that the overwhelming consensus in Israel about the necessity of this war is the thing that allows our country to push forward despite heavy damages to both Israel and Lebanon.
There will be no such consensus if the government should decide to prolong seizure of Lebanese territory without good reason.
Plus the irony of the situation is that our current government is basicly pragmatic center and left wing: Olmert (one of the fathers of the disengagement from Gaza), Shimon Peres, Amir Peretz.
That is why I'm sure that ersatzprofessor's remark "now the bastards want to finally get the Litani" is false and my answer to his question "that's the plan, isn't it?" is no, it isn't.

As for the UN:

The UN is an important institution. It has it's limits and problems, yet there is no alternative to it and that is why in my opinion Israel should seek it's support.

Israel owes it's birth to the UN, who asserted in resolution 181 that we have rights in our homeland and decided to divide what was left of
Mandatory Palestine (Britain had already given 75% of it to the Arabs - now state of Jordan) between the Jews and Arabs who had been
living there at the time.
It was the Arabs who had rejected this resolution and tried to eliminate us.
Many if not most (they elected Hamas) Palestinians today still want Israel destroyed. Some say it clearly
http://youtube.com/watch?v=aoa0IiEr-2Q&mode=related&search= yet others don't mind if we implement (their interpretation of)242 and 338, then they have other plans: http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28777
Are we expected to comply even if in doing so we endanger our existance?
What would you do in our place?

Our priorities are survival first, compliance second.

One more reason why we do not allways comply prompty/fully/at-all to some UN resolution has to do with the fact that many resolution are one sided or at least biased.

The reasons for unfair and sometimes vicious resolutions:(like 'Zionism is racism' that was canceled later on)

1. There are more than 20 Arab and Muslim countries, and only one Israel (and one U.S.A). Very useful for them when voting.

2. Money talks, and they have loads of petrodollars, so they have many friends.

3. Public opinion in many countries considers Israel to be a superpower bullying the Arabs (in fact the size of Israel is 20,770 sq km, slightly smaller than New Jersey, and is dwarfed compared to the Arab and Muslim countries in terms of both area and population. See the map on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab-Israeli_conflict).
Israel is considered to be armed to the teeth (True. That's what kept us alive.)

4. The Palestinians play the part of the underdog well, presenting their tragedies, both imaginary
http://youtube.com/watch?v=t_B1H-1opys
and real (yes there are real tragedies, most of them partly their fault and partly ours. But at least we don't hand out candies when it happens as they do in our tragedies).

So the Arabs pretty much get their way when voting time arrives. No wonder the US vetos some resolutions.

BTW, are there any UN resolutions dealing with thing like:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Em-MnAYiEWk&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmnpMXOpaM4&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ytX-DI_jwwI&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyue_07owEs&NR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4rb5d5uhq0&mode=related&search=
(partial list)

Didn't think so.

A more balanced approach by the UN will be welcomed.

Here is someone who doesn't seem to think we are all that bad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WLoasfOLpQ
Maybe If Mr. Kofi Annan watches it he will give us some more credit...

Isra123 August 10, 2006 - 9:38pm
golly gee

Why in the world would the Israelis want Hezbollah to stop lobbing rockets from across the border ? The sheer nerve of them !

Nice to see you crept back out from underneath your stone. How is Rodong Sinmon reading lately ?

Mad Dog

MadDog August 10, 2006 - 8:16pm
You barking at me?

LOL, sorry MD, but if you are I need to let you know that's all it is to me, barking. Stopped listening to it long ago. I lost hope that one day you might submit something more to this site than sarcasm and juvenile sniping.

Carib

Caribdude August 10, 2006 - 11:47pm
???

I was replying to "ersatzprofessor".

I lost hope that one day you might submit something more to this site than sarcasm and juvenile sniping

This from a guy who called Americans diseased. You.Funny.

Mad Dog

MadDog August 12, 2006 - 12:26pm
IDF's northern commander fired

Israel names new commander for Lebanon offensive

By Allyn Fisher-Ilan

JERUSALEM, Aug 8 (Reuters) - Israel named a new top commander for its Lebanon war effort on Tuesday, effectively demoting another general after criticism of the army's handling of the four-week-old offensive.

The military said in a statement that Maj. Gen. Moshe Kaplinsky, a veteran of previous Lebanon campaigns, was named "to coordinate the Israeli army's operations in Lebanon".

Israeli commentators saw the move as effectively pushing aside Gen. Udi Adam, head of northern command, at a time when some Israelis are asking why the region's mightiest army has failed to halt Hizbollah rocket fire after 28 days of fighting.

Channel Two television said Kaplinsky, the deputy chief of staff and former commander in the occupied West Bank, was named because Adam had angered Prime Minister Ehud Olmert by accusing politicians of limiting the Lebanon campaign.....

via haaretz.com

Interesting that this announcement coincides with Hizballah's latest claim to have killed 12 and wounded 10 IDF troops and disabled a number of tanks and bulldozers in today's fighting.

stunster August 8, 2006 - 6:16pm
Official IDF bio - Moshe Kaplinsky

Major General Moshe Kaplinsky was born in Israel in 1957.

The following is a list of positions Major General Moshe Ya'alon fulfilled during his service in the IDF:

1976: he enlisted into the Golani Brigade.
1982: he was appointed Commander of the Golani Reconnaissance Unit.
1985: he was appointed Commander of the Gideon Battalion in the Golani Brigade.
1990: he was appointed the Commander of the Hermon Regional Brigade.
1991: he was appointed the Commander of the Eastern Brigade on the Lebanese Border.
1993: he was appointed the Commander of the Golani Brigade.
1997: he was appointed a Division Commander.
1999: he was appointed the Commander of the Galilee Formation.
2001: he was appointed Military Secretary to the Prime Minister and promoted to the rank of Major General. Served as Military Secretary until July 2002.
August 2002: Major General Moshe Kaplinsky Appointed as GOC Central Command.
March 2005: Appointed to the position of deputy chief of general staff.

Major General Kaplinsky is a graduate of the Advanced Infantry Officer?s course in the USA, holds a BA in Economics and Business Administration from the University of Bar-Ilan, and an Executive MBA with Honors from the University of Tel Aviv.

Major General Moshe Kaplinsky is married and a father of two.

link

Escher Sketch August 8, 2006 - 6:30pm
IDF shells Palestinian camp in Lebanon

01:46 Report: IDF shells Lebanon`s largest Palestinian refugee camp, causing casualties (AP)

stunster August 8, 2006 - 7:09pm
Israel Is Accused of Sending Poison to Hamas Premier

(not as tangential to thread as title might indicate)

Ashraf Khali | August 8 | GAZA CITY —

LATimes - Hamas on Monday accused Israel of a failed assassination attempt against Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh using a poison-filled letter.

Several employees in the office of Deputy Prime Minister Nasser Shaer in the West Bank city of Ramallah were hospitalized after one of them opened a letter addressed to Haniyeh. The letter contained a tissue that gave off a strange smell, filling the room and overwhelming several employees, Palestinian sources said.

Seven employees were hospitalized, one in serious condition.

An Israeli army spokesman who declined to give his name denied any involvement by Israeli troops or officials.

During a Cabinet meeting in Gaza City, Haniyeh called the incident a "criminal and dangerous act," according to the Ramattan news agency.

He said the letter was sent from Tel Aviv addressed personally to him.

Shaer promised a full investigation, saying the tissue had been sent to a lab for analysis.

In 1997, Israeli agents tried to kill Hamas senior leader Khaled Meshaal in Amman, Jordan, by injecting poison in his ear. The attempt failed, and the agents were captured and later exchanged for jailed Hamas founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin.

Haniyeh, whose Hamas-led government is opposed by Israel, has been unable to leave the Gaza Strip since taking power in late March because of Israeli limitations.

Dozens of Hamas-affiliated ministers and lawmakers have since been detained without charges by Israel, most recently parliament Speaker Aziz Dweik, who was hospitalized by his captors Monday. An Israeli army spokesman said Dweik had complained of dizziness and chest pains and was being kept overnight for observation.

In Gaza City, supporters of Islamic Jihad held a rally in support of Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah. About a thousand protesters marched through Palestine Square downtown, waving black Islamic Jihad banners and yellow Hezbollah flags and chanting, "We are loyal to you, O Nasrallah."

They also harshly criticized the anemic response of Arab governments to the Israeli offensive in Lebanon and to the ongoing siege that has paralyzed the Gaza Strip and killed at least 170 Palestinians.

Islamic Jihad senior leader Khalid Batch condemned what he called "the international silence over Palestine that has given Israel the right to kill and commit massacres."

Nasrallah's popularity has soared throughout the Arab world during the nearly 4-week-old Israeli offensive. Hezbollah flags and posters of Nasrallah are some of the hottest-selling items in Gazan stores.

The Lebanese Shiite Muslim group has long been well regarded among opponents of Israel for its protracted guerrilla war, which helped lead to the withdrawal of Israeli troops from Lebanon in 2000.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Special correspondent Hatem Shurrab contributed to this report.


"at some point I'm hopeful I'll figure out something to put here"

nymole August 8, 2006 - 8:18pm
thanks Nymole

Yes, experts at assasinations are the Israelis: successess, failures and impunity.

this is just the previews. stay tuned for more to come.

************************************
If this were 1700, they'd be saying: "Since civilization began, slavery has existed. It's human nature." I would have believed it. If 1800: "Women will never vote. They are not born rational". I would have believed it.
2006: Make war irrelevant

bernadene August 8, 2006 - 10:07pm
Whether or not this

Whether or not this particular allegation is true, we already know that Israel has a bad, bad record when it comes to respecting human rights and democracy...

In fact, according to international human rights organizations such as Amnesty International, Israel has an atrocious record. A report by Amnesty International two years ago entitled “Israel and the Occupied Territories: Shielded from Scrutiny,” documented the sustained and systematic nature of human right abuses by the Israeli military. The abuses catalogued in the report include, but are not limited to, the following: unlawful killings; torture of prisoners/detainees; intentional destruction of houses (sometimes with the residents still inside); making medicine inaccessible by the use of checkpoints; the denial of humanitarian assistance; using Palestinian civilians as “human shields” during military operations; preventing children from their right to education, and more. Specific events, such as the military invasion of Jenin, in which 4,000 people were displaced by the destruction of their homes, were described. Amnesty stated that, “Up to now the Israeli authorities have failed in their responsibility to bring to justice the perpetrators of serious human rights violations”. The report concluded with the statement that, “there will be no peace or security in the region until human rights are respected. All attempts to end human rights violations and install a system of international protection in Israel and the Occupied Territories, in particular by introducing monitors with a clear human rights mandate, have been undermined by the refusal of the government of Israel. This refusal has been supported by the USA.”

Israel/Palestine Democracy

Israel. A "democracy" that does not offer its citizens civil marriage and divorce. A "democracy" that requires ID cards that do not designate nationality but rather race and ethnicity. Israel. A "democracy" that has placed a major part of her civil society in the hands of the Rabbinate, a medieval theocratic body that once refused DNA evidence in a case involving an Israeli who tried to prove his children were "Jewish." Israel. A "democracy" that openly boasts of segregation as in a June 1999 Barak campaign billboard near Jaffa that stated: "Peace Through Separation: Us Here Them Over There."16 A "democracy" that implements the "Law of Return" patterned on the National Socialists’ Nuremberg Laws. Israel. A "democracy" that establishes exclusionary housing, bypass roads, and shopping centers in illegally occupied territory. Israel. A "democracy" on the verge of electing a longtime, well-known war criminal as Prime Minister, a man who has promised to implement a national political agenda that resembles Italy and Germany several decades ago. Israel. A "democracy" of assassinations17, blockades, checkpoints, curfews, torture, administrative detention, collective punishment, segregated housing, theocratic rule over marriage and divorce, home demolition, arbitrarily administered "entry passes" to Jerusalem, open defiance of international laws and conventions (Hague, Geneva, UN Resolutions 242, 338, 181, 194), and noncompliance with nuclear nonproliferation. A "democracy" in possession of a NATO-caliber Army, Tank Corps, and Air Force, not to mention over two hundred nuclear warheads18 that in turn makes her the Sparta of the Middle East and Mediterranean region.

Israel could have established herself as a secular, pluralistic, liberal democracy. An Israeli Nation as opposed to an exclusivist Jewish State. What makes this so tragic and reprehensible is the fact that Israel remains the last European colonizer of non-Europeans. And worse, this occurred in 1948, after the calamities of two World Wars dispelled the legitimacy of colonialism. True, France, Great Britain, and even the United States dabbled in colonial adventures in Indochina, North Africa, Asia, and the Caribbean shortly after World War Two. However, a combination of Third World resistance and morally outraged citizenries in the respective countries put an end to those misadventures. The prospects for a similar moral awakening in Israel are dim. Until such a movement emerges in the "Jewish State" there will be no fulfillment of any democratic promise for all the inhabitants of Israel-Palestine. We return to the wisdom of the ancient Chinese. Let us call Israel’s political system by its proper name: Israel is not a democracy; it is an Apartheid Garrison-State, a modern-day Sparta.

Israeli Democracy

stunster August 8, 2006 - 11:14pm
war

Read this one!
http://www.antiwar.com/roberts/?articleid=9381

repressive governments mix administrative clumsiness & inefficiency with authoritarian tendencies.

kimmy August 8, 2006 - 11:53pm
Hezbollah strengthens with every bombed Beirut building

Support for Hezbollah strengthens with every bombed Beirut building

From Daniel McGrory in Beirut
And once again the Arab League has shown itself to be completely worthless. Would they be sitting on their hands if this were Cairo instead? I think not.


TimesOnline(UK) - AYYAD AMMAR moved among the rescuers clawing through the ruins of a Beirut apartment block yesterday morning, holding up a photograph of his 14-year-old grandson and asking if anyone had seen the boy.
Ahmed Kanj had gone to play computer war games in the internet café at the foot of the seven-storey building minutes before an Israeli missile struck.

A fireman told the old man finally that he had found the teenager’s broken body at daybreak. Mr Ammar bowed his head and began to weep as the crowd around him swore vengeance against Israel for the massacre on Hajjaj Street. The walking wounded and families searching for missing relatives began chanting the name of Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, the Hezbollah leader, even though most who live here support Amal, a rival Shia group.

Diaa el-Husseini, 34, a market trader, who lived in the adjoining tower block, said: “We thought we were safe here so we stayed. We are not fighters. We are families who only want a peaceful life, but Israel wants to terrorise us all into leaving the southern suburbs of Beirut. Today we all feel part of the Hezbollah resistance.”

If Israel thought that by slowly strangling the life out of the Lebanese capital, by blockading it from land, sea and air, it would turn Christians against their Muslim neighbours it appears to have miscalculated. The tragedy on Hajjaj Street, which killed at least 31 and wounded 60, was Beirut’s single biggest loss of life since the war began, bringing the total to more than 1,000. It hardened the public mood. Even those in the Christian half of the capital, who were beginning to call for a ceasefire at any price, spoke yesterday of their disgust at what Israeli warplanes were doing to their city.

George Serrin, 42, a businessman, has no love for Sheikh Nasrallah and his militia, but said: “Of course I care for my family’s safety and want this war over now. But I am sickened at the needless ruination done to my city, our city.”

The blockades, fuel rationing, rising prices, power cuts and shortages in the shops affect all Beirut’s citizens.

There is a conviction shared by every community that Israel’s agenda is not solely to crush Hezbollah but to dismantle Lebanon, and particularly Beirut, just as the capital was starting to enjoy an economic and political renaissance. The criticisms of Fouad Siniora, the Lebanese Prime Minister, and of Hezbollah’s behaviour in the first days of the war by opposition figures such as Samir Geagea, the veteran Christian leader of the Lebanese Forces group, and the Druze chieftain Walid Jumblatt, are muted now as the Lebanese stage a deliberate show of unity.

The priority instead is to prevent Beirut’s frustration and anger developing into another civil war. This is a city that had spent millions marketing itself as this summer’s new Mediterranean playground, but now it feels more like a prison camp.

The damage inflicted on it is colossal. More than 70 bridges and 60 big factories have been destroyed. Fishing fleets have been sunk. Hospitals turn away patients for want of fuel, beaches are deserted and scarred by oil slicks from bombed fuel tanks. There is a pervasive sense of isolation.

With most nightclubs, bars, shops and cinemas closed and with few other distractions left to them, increasing numbers are turning to the internet to express their misery, hopes and worries. Contributors work by candlelight, their computers powered by batteries because much of the city is fortunate if it gets two hours of electricity.

One site, called Electronic Lebanon, has had 2.5 million hits. Antiwar petitions and cartoons are exchanged by e-mail, along with photographs of Lebanon’s dead and injured.

The bloggers also swap their black humour about how it feels to be Beiruti today. Khalid Fouwaz, 26, a US-educated computer analyst, who watched Condoleezza Rice at a press conference on President Bush’s Texas ranch tell Beirutis what they should do, said:

“Perhaps, if she can’t get us a ceasefire, maybe she can get some hay from George W. for our donkeys, as they will be the only way we will be able to move around our capital soon.”


"at some point I'm hopeful I'll figure out something to put here"

nymole August 9, 2006 - 1:12am
Iran: The Next War

Iran: The Next War

stunster August 9, 2006 - 1:51am
Once again US blocks cease-fire

08:28 U.S. rejects French-proposed amendments to UN cease-fire resolution (AP)

stunster August 9, 2006 - 1:52am
Haaretz editorial

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/747483.html

stunster August 9, 2006 - 2:34am
The Litani River

Can someone fill me in on the 'strategic importance' of the Litani?

From what I've been reading, Israel wants to extend its ground operations to reach the Litani. They say that it's to stop Hizbollah rockets from being fired from there.

If this is true, then what I don't understand is why Hizbollah would be firing short range rockets from so far away. In the case of Katyushas,if they were fired from the Litani surely most of them wouldn't even make it over the border.

I'm by no means a military strategist, but it seems to me that the IDF should be concentrating, as they say they are at the moment, on the border areas where the rockets are actually being fired from.

Pushing deeper into the country will not stop the rockets, all it will do is give the IDF an easy ride to the Litani (and some good PR), once they get past the immediate border area that is, leaving a vacuum behind them that Hizbollah will fill.

stonehouse August 9, 2006 - 3:13am
"Short range" and the Litani River

The vast majority of the thousands of rockets hitting Israel comes from the areas between the border and the Litani.
We hope that controlling the area up to the Litani will stop them.
If this does the the job, fine.
If not, (like if start raining longer range missiles) I think the next river is the Zahrani.
If things get really "interesting" (I truely hope they don't, for the sake of Isrealis and Lebanese) we will all be learning the names of more rivers in Lebanon...

To get idea of what 'short range' means see the map at:
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts+About+Israel/Israel+in+Maps/Kassam+and+Katyusha+Threat.htm

Isra123 August 12, 2006 - 4:45pm
There will be abundant learning opportunities for all.

As in so many past learning opportunities, they will largely be misunderstood.

Escher Sketch August 12, 2006 - 5:16pm
Google Earth animation of South Lebanon

Hey all, using the Stratfor map here I put together a sweet Google Earth flyover animation of the South Lebanon/Israel area. The link is at:

http://www.hongpong.com/Israel-Lebanon-conflict-August-8.kmz (2.3 MB)

I posted about it on my site with screenshots. I was going to post it here too but I didn't see how to get offsite image tags to work. Regards...
--
Hongpong.com

HongPong August 9, 2006 - 3:15am
Ambassador to Venezuela recalled in protest

Aug. 9, 2006 5:30
Ambassador to Venezuela recalled in protest
By HERB KEINON
[JPost ePaper]

Ambassador to Venezuela Shlomo Cohen flew back to Tel Aviv Tuesday, after being temporarily recalled to protest what the Foreign Ministry called Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez's "wild slander" against Israel.

Chavez, in an Al-Jazeera interview Friday, called Israel's operation in Lebanon an "unjustified aggression that is being carried out in the style of Hitler, in a Fascist fashion."

He said Israel was "doing what Hitler did against the Jews. They are killing innocent children and whole families."

On Thursday Chavez recalled his country's charge d'affaires, who was acting ambassador, from Israel to protest the war against Hizbullah.

Anti-Defamation League national director Abraham Foxman blasted Chavez in a statement, saying he needed a "reality check when it comes to the Middle East conflict."

"It is outrageous for him to suggest that Israel, the home of the Jewish people, is behaving like Nazis," Foxman said. "Need we remind Mr. Chavez that the State of Israel, which arose out of the ashes of the Holocaust, once again is fighting to defend itself against an implacable enemy whose goal is the destruction of the Jewish state?"

The ADL sent a letter to Chavez saying it was concerned that "statements demonizing Israel and anti-Semitism cloaked in anti-Zionist terms may be used by others to justify violence against Jews, wherever they l

link to JPost


In these times you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning. ~ Carl Sandburg

Tina August 9, 2006 - 8:47am
Venezuela 'to sever Israel ties'

Venezuela 'to sever Israel ties'

The President of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez, has said his country is likely to sever ties with Israel in protest at its military offensive in Lebanon.

Mr Chavez said he had "no interest" in maintaining relations with Israel, whom he has accused of committing genocide.

Venezuela recalled its charge d'affaires to Israel last week, prompting Israel to withdraw its ambassador to Caracas on Monday.

Mr Chavez recently expressed his support for Israel's arch-foe, Iran.

In a televised speech, Mr Chavez said he had "no interest in maintaining diplomatic relations, or offices, or businesses, or anything with a state like Israel".

Mr Chavez rounded on Israel at the weekend, accusing the Jewish state of committing a "new Holocaust".

"Israel has gone mad. It's attacking, doing the same thing to the Palestinian and Lebanese people that they have criticised - and with reason - the Holocaust. But this is a new Holocaust."

The Venezuelan president has also angered Israel by showing support for Iran, which backs Hezbollah and has said the answer to the crisis in Lebanon is the elimination of Israel.

During a visit to Tehran at the end of last month, Mr Chavez said Venezuela would "stand by Iran at any time and under any condition".

Israel said it had withdrawn its ambassador to Venezuela "as an act of protest against the one-sided policy of the president of Venezuela.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5258722.stm


In these times you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning. ~ Carl Sandburg

Tina August 9, 2006 - 8:49am
HAH!, LET THE BOYCOTTING BEGIN!

http://www.counterpunch.org/tilley08052006.html

thanks Candy!

Hey Hugo, stay out of small aircraft, willya?
------------------------------------------------
"Israel Has Made Itself the Least Safe Place in the World for a Jew to Live"

Into the Valley of Death

By TIM LLEWELLYN

I am in blood
stepp'd in so far that,
should I wade no more,
returning were as tedious
as go o'er."

Macbeth
http://www.counterpunch.org/

*************************************************
If this were 1700, they'd be saying: "Since civilization began, slavery has existed. It's human nature." I would have believed it. If 1800: "Women will never vote. They are not born rational". I would have believed it.
2006: Make war irrelevant

bernadene August 9, 2006 - 12:46pm
Boycott Hezbollah?

How does one boycott a non-state entity like Hezbollah in order to pressure them to stop firing missles at civillian targets?

Sully August 9, 2006 - 3:37pm
11 Israeli Soldiers Reportedly Killed

11 Israeli Soldiers Reportedly Killed
By KARIN LAUB , 08.09.2006, 09:15 AM

AP - Arab satellite TV Al-Jazeera reported that 11 Israeli soldiers were killed Wednesday in heavy fighting with Hezbollah guerrillas near the border in south Lebanon. Meanwhile, Israel's Security Cabinet debated a proposal to vastly expand its ground offensive in Lebanon, with key ministers arguing the military must deal more blows to Hezbollah and score quick battlefield victories before a cease-fire is imposed.

More Hezbollah rockets were fired at northern Israeli towns Wednesday - including several medium-range missiles that landed near the West Bank town of Jenin and south of the Israeli city of Afula - bringing the total during the conflict to 3,333, police said.

By mid-afternoon, the guerrillas had fired 132 rockets, but no casualties were immediately reported, said police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld.

Five of the rockets landed near a Palestinian town in the West Bank on Wednesday, Palestinian security officials said. There were no casualties.

The rockets landed near the village of Arabani, on the Israel-West Bank frontier, the officials said. Clouds of smoke from the rockets could be seen 12 miles away in the town of Jenin, witnesses said.

The Israeli army declined to comment on reports about the 11 soldiers' deaths but said earlier that 15 soldiers were wounded in overnight clashes.

more


In these times you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning. ~ Carl Sandburg

Tina August 9, 2006 - 9:53am
Security cabinet okays decision to expand ground operation in Le

Halutz: Major ground operation needed 'to end this war differently'

Security cabinet okays decision to expand ground operation in Lebanon

By Aluf Benn, Shmuel Rosner and Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondents

The security cabinet approved Wednesday a broader ground offensive by the Israel Defense Forces in Lebanon, authorizing troops to push to the Litani River some 30
kilometers from the Israel-Lebanon border.

Nine of the 12 ministers in the cabinet voted in favor of the move, while the other three abstained. There were no votes against.

Advertisement

Some ministers had argued that the military must deal more blows to Hezbollah before a Middle East cease-fire is imposed.

Industry and Trade Minister Eli Yishai (Shas) said after the meeting that the proposed new ground offensive in Lebanon was expected to take 30 days.

"The assessment is it will last 30 days. I think it is wrong to make this assessment. I think it will take a lot longer," he said.

However, a decision to send troops deeper into Lebanon was fraught with considerable risk. Israel would set itself up for new criticism that it is sabotaging diplomatic efforts. Also, a wider ground offensive might do little to stop Hezbollah rocket fire on Israel, while sharply increasing the number of casualties among Israeli troops.

The security cabinet met as the IDF reported casualties in battles with Hezbollah guerillas in the southern Lebanon villages of Ayta al-Shaab and Dibel.

Ahead of the meeting, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert was still debating whether to approve the proposed expansion of the IDF ground operation in south Lebanon.

Olmert was concerned that the plan presented by the defense establishment will result in hundreds of casualties, and therefore, wanted to subject it to a careful cost-benefit analysis. In Tuesday's fighting in Lebanon, five soldiers were killed and 23 others wounded, two of them seriously.

According to a government source, Olmert had also asked the army to present him with several different options for a ground operation.

While most of the cabinet was expected to back whatever Olmert decides, sources in the Prime Minister's Office said that three to four ministers were likely to oppose a large-scale ground operation regardless of Olmert's position.

The IDF's proposal is for a two-week ground operation that would involve conquering the entire area south of the Litani River, and even a few areas north of it, with the goal of significantly reducing Hezbollah's short-range rocket launching capabilities. Most Katyusha rocket launches take place from within this area.

IDF Chief of Staff Dan Halutz said Tuesday that such an operation is necessary "in order to end this war differently."People who participated in discussions of the plan with him said they had never heard him speak as forcefully in favor of anything as he did in favor of the proposed ground operation

more


In these times you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning. ~ Carl Sandburg

Tina August 9, 2006 - 10:03am
30 days

That probably means Bush hides in Crawford for the entire month of August.

Tim August 9, 2006 - 12:54pm
UK Sky News Interview with

MP George Galloway, video.

What a match he would make at the UN for Bolton. Would they drive each other to take off their shoes and pound them on the desk as Nikita Khruschev did in 1960? Nikita had up 'til that time used his fists.

canuck August 9, 2006 - 11:58am
lol Bolton would do as well as Coleman eom


In these times you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning. ~ Carl Sandburg

Tina August 9, 2006 - 12:07pm
OMG that was hilarious

thanks, canuck. Galloway is one fine truth teller. boy does he let her have it, and her listeners, too. no one in American MSM has enough nerve to invite anyone remotely this honest on to speak. I give Sky-news credit for that anyway.
****************************************************
If this were 1700, they'd be saying: "Since civilization began, slavery has existed. It's human nature." I would have believed it. If 1800: "Women will never vote. They are not born rational". I would have believed it.
2006: Make war irrelevant

bernadene August 9, 2006 - 10:35pm
No exemptions for humanitarian convoys says military

Israel isolates Tyre with threat to bomb all traffic

No exemptions for humanitarian convoys says military

Jonathan Steele in Tyre and Conal Urquhart in Metulla
Wednesday August 9, 2006
The Guardian

Israeli aircraft dropped leaflets over Tyre yesterday morning, warning people not to use vehicles south of the Litani river, heightening the city's sense of isolation.

All roads north and south of the port city have been cut by bombing in the last few days and Israeli authorities have refused permission for any ships to dock.

The travel ban had no time limit and mentioned no exceptions, even for ambulances and humanitarian convoys. Addressed to "Lebanese civilians south of the Litani River", it said: "Read this carefully and follow its instructions. The Israeli Defence Forces will escalate their operations and will strike with force against terrorist elements who are using you as human shields and firing rockets from inside your homes against Israel..." All vehicles would be bombed the letter said. It was signed "State of Israel".

The warning had an immediate effect. The city's streets virtually emptied yesterday. Most shops were shuttered, and there were few pedestrians on the pavements along the main roads. Only in the alleys of the medieval quarter was there an occasional group of people on chairs outside their front doors.

"I don't have any food for customers," said Abu Ali, a cafe owner. "My wife and children have gone to Beirut. No one's sleeping. They're constantly planning what to do if anything happens". He hinted that if the Israelis entered the town, he would fight them. "I'm a civilian who's ready for anything, day or night," he said. Asked if he had a gun, he repeated his comment.

Standing by his sandwich shop, Houssam Nasser said: "We normally get supplies of bread and meat every day. Now they've stopped. I'll keep my shop open but won't have anything to sell." But he was not planning to leave in spite of the siege.

At the police station, a detective said staff had not been able to move. The government had ordered all police to stay on their jobs, even if they sent their families away, but with the travel ban they could not work properly. "I don't how long this will last. It's the Israelis who decide," he said.

Local and international humanitarian organisations tried to get exemption from the travel ban by applying to the Israeli authorities for permission to go out on urgent missions. Yusuf Khairalla, Tyre's civil defence supervisor, said the city was isolated. "This is the first time this has happened," he said.

His team was denied permission to travel to Maroub, about 10 miles outside the city, to rescue five people from under the rubble of a bombed house.

At the clinic staffed by Médecins sans Frontières Dr Martial Ledecq, a surgeon, was sterilising equipment brought in from Beirut on Monday. The boxes had to be carried along a footbridge across the Litani river by volunteers because Israel destroyed the causeway on Sunday night, cutting Tyre off from road traffic.

"If there is fighting in town, we will be ready for operations. You will have noticed that the main hospitals are all on the eastern edge of town. We are the only one in the centre", Dr Ledecq said.

Jakob Kellenberger, the president of the International Committee of the Red Cross, was forced to walk across the footbridge on a visit to Tyre yesterday. Access for civilians was his major concern, he said, a point he would emphasise during meetings in Israel today.

With southern Lebanon now a virtual prison, the most fortunate people are the region's official prisoners. "We evacuated all 80 of them from Tibnin prison a week ago. They are safe now in Beirut," said a detective at the police station.

MORE

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1840140,00.html


In these times you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning. ~ Carl Sandburg

Tina August 9, 2006 - 11:59am
Muslim countries must be armed to match Israel's war machine

Commentary
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Muslim countries must be armed to match Israel's war machine
By
Wed, 9 Aug 2006, 11:06:00
The New Nation - Bangladesh

The Muslim countries of the Middle East must not remain helplessly at the receiving end of the brutalities of Israel's war machine. Admittedly, the US government has a larger plan of its own for implementation in Middle East. The devastating war machine of Israel is being maintained for attaining this objective. The Muslim countries' eagerness to maintain friendly relations with the USA is of no consideration in the mind of the present US administration. The reality is that the US administration considers Muslim power as a threat to US's hegemonistic design of an unipolar world. Assisting Hezbollah or sending peace keeping forces is not enough.

The United States blocked a quick cease-fire only to allow Israel to destroy Lebanon and kill Lebanese men, women and children in huge numbers.

Many Western observers find it difficult to reconcile bombing of Beirut's international airport, petroleum supplies, power plants and fishing fleets with combating Hezbollah guerrillas. The attacks on Lebanon's military is specially odd when Israel wants Lebanese government to rein in Hezbollah.

Fierce battles between Israeli army and Hezbollah resistance forces raged Tuesday across southern Lebanon as diplomats at the United Nations were struggling to keep a peace plan from collapsing. Arab countries including Lebanon are insisting that the peace plan must include provision for withdrawal of Israel from Lebanon. It is common sense that there cannot be any peace when parts of Lebanon remain under Israeli occupation. It is the occupation by Israel of parts of Lebanon, Syria and Palestine that is at the heart of the guerrilla resistance against Israel.

It is a gigantic lie that Muslim countries of the Middle East do not accept Israel state. Expressions of anger and terrorism are directed to restrain Israel occupying the Muslim countries

more


In these times you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning. ~ Carl Sandburg

Tina August 9, 2006 - 2:17pm
How To Fly a Drone..like playstation

explainer: Answers to your questions about the news.

How To Fly a Drone
Just pretend like you're playing PlayStation.

By Dan Kois
Posted Wednesday, Aug. 9, 2006, at 1:34 PM ET

On Monday, the Israeli air force shot down a Hezbollah drone over Israeli airspace. According to media reports in Israel, the unmanned craft was preparing to drop explosives. How do you pilot an unmanned drone?

Depending on the drone, it's either like playing a video game, flying a remote-controlled plane, or doing data entry. Drones, also known as unmanned aerial vehicles, are pilotless airplanes used for reconnaissance and surgical attacks. The U.S. Army's drone of choice, the Raven, is a 3-foot-long, camera-equipped miniplane that's "launched" when a soldier winds it up and throws it. Once in the air, the Raven is controlled by a book-sized console that looks something like a 1980s-era Coleco football game. The screen at the top displays one of the drone's three video feeds, and the joysticks and buttons at the bottom pilot the craft. Operators can use the sticks to pilot the Raven like a model plane or just preprogram GPS coordinates for the drone to follow. There's even a button that automatically returns the Raven to its launch site.

More with lotsa links at Slate


In these times you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning. ~ Carl Sandburg

Tina August 9, 2006 - 2:29pm
Why yes, "surgical".

Drones, also known as unmanned aerial vehicles, are pilotless airplanes used for reconnaissance and surgical attacks.

And of course in the absence of good intel it's performing surgery with incredibly precise tools without first being 100% certain that what you're removing is a tumor, a kidney, a cyst or a heart.

Escher Sketch August 9, 2006 - 3:09pm
It's time

for the world to follow Venezuela's example, and indeed go further.

Much further.

In the last five years the US and Israel between them have bombed, devastated, invaded and occupied three countries, bringing death and misery to tens of thousands of people: Afghanistan, Iraq, and Lebanon. They have their evil eyes on a fourth, Iran. North Korea might be a fifth, Cuba a sixth, and Venezuela a seventh.

The US and Israel are belligerent, monstrous, terrorist rogue states. The international community ought to treat them as pariahs, severing all diplomatic ties, setting up a global economic blockade and boycott against them, freezing US and Israeli physical and financial assets in their territory, forbidding US and Israeli planes from using their airspace and airports and US and Israeli ships from using their ports, and banning most US and Israeli citizens from travel to their countries, until the neocon and neolikudnik bastards are driven from power and handed over, along with Britain's Tony Blair, to stand trial before the International Criminal Court.

We basically have three alternatives: 1) perpetual conventional warfare waged by a horrifyingly entrenched neocon-neolikudnik alliance, combined with perpetual terrorism/guerilla warfare waged by Islamic and other extremist resistance movements; or 2) full-scale global warfare among several state actors, involving the use of long range missiles and at least some tactical nuclear nuclear weapons; or 3) the political destruction of the neocon-neolikudnik alliance due to its extreme isolation by the international community, as per the above.

While 3 is the least probable, it is by far the most preferable. And for those who believe that the Dems will take back Congress in November, please, spare me. Even if they did, it wouldn't make much difference given the Dems' cowardly need to be as warlike as the neocon, neolikudnik bastards when it comes to dealing with the latter's international opponents.

stunster August 9, 2006 - 2:46pm
How strange

Last I checked Likud had been voted out of office and replaced by a party that was dedicated to giving land back to the Palestinians not occupying it.

But don't let that little detail get in the way of you master theory there Stunster..

Sully August 9, 2006 - 3:31pm
That's why

I used the term 'neolikudniks' and indeed didn't mention the Likud Party.

So your post is really rather stupid and pathetic.

stunster August 9, 2006 - 5:35pm
It would be wise for the

It would be wise for the rest of the world to think about how much war it wants. So far as I can tell, we Americans dearly love war and will continue launching them until something stops us. Maybe other countries should sell their treasuries.

pihwht August 9, 2006 - 6:39pm
drugs are bad.

In the last five years the US and Israel between them have bombed, devastated, invaded and occupied three countries, bringing death and misery to tens of thousands of people: Afghanistan, Iraq, and Lebanon. They have their evil eyes on a fourth, Iran. North Korea might be a fifth, Cuba a sixth, and Venezuela a seventh

Stop posting while high on whatever paint fumes you sniff. Please. If you actually believe in an invasion of Iran, North Korea, Cuba or Venezuala, you have been listening to Radio Chavez (tm) or ANSWER for way too long.

Mad Dog

MadDog August 10, 2006 - 8:22pm
Listen, MD.

You're entitled to your opinions. But knock off the gratuitious personal attacks, okay?

Escher Sketch August 10, 2006 - 9:02pm
you get what you deserve

ES, if soneone is going to turn the forum into a vomitorium by a near-endless stream of poorly thought out babble, then I call it like I see it.

Stunster has a very tenous grip on reality as shown by his posts. Do you really think anyone is going to invade, lets say, Venezuala ? Stunster seems to think so. Its so laughable I have to make fun of him.

Mad Dog

MadDog August 12, 2006 - 12:31pm
Not half as tenuous

as your grip on reading comprehension.

Nowhere did I state that the US was going to invade Venezuela. You simply made that up.

So keep your trollish drivel where it belongs, inside your own rabid canine imagination.

stunster August 12, 2006 - 12:45pm
Not half as tenuous as your

Not half as tenuous as your grip on reading comprehension. Nowhere did I state that the US was going to invade Venezuela. You simply made that up.

Quote from Stunster:

"In the last five years the US and Israel between them have bombed, devastated, invaded and occupied three countries, bringing death and misery to tens of thousands of people: Afghanistan, Iraq, and Lebanon. They have their evil eyes on a fourth, Iran. North Korea might be a fifth, Cuba a sixth, and Venezuela a seventh."

Venezuela the seventh, what , exactly ? If you want to come off sounding like a loon, try editing your posts.

Mad Dog

MadDog August 17, 2006 - 9:17pm
Stunster

contributes a variety of different kinds of posts.

1) Straight links with no emphasis or comment

2) Links with opinion or opinion with links

3) Straight personal opinion

In the first category, the category that is most important on the Agonist, stunster's contributions outstrip your own and mine together by a full order of magnitude. Certainly more than sufficient to justify stunsters indulgence in a relatively small volume of posts in the third category which in fact forms the vast numerical bulk of your own posts.

Stunster has a very tenous grip on reality as shown by his posts.

Subjective, personal, gratuitous and false. Stunster has a bias, as do you. You disagree with that bias. Saying people that you disagree with have a "tenuous grip on reality" is stupid, childish and unhelpful.

Its so laughable I have to make fun of him.

Then you're leaving the ranks of "contrarian" and crossing the line into "troll". If you continue that tactic I will support your removal as such.

Escher Sketch August 12, 2006 - 1:36pm
Nasrallah speaks again on TV

Nasrallah: We'll turn Lebanon into graveyard for IDF

Hizbullah leader says Israeli attacked had not weakened organization's capabilities, calls on Israeli Arabs to leave Haifa to avoid being hurt by rocket fire. Nasrallah says UN draft resolution gives Israel 'more than it wanted and more than it was looking for.'
News Agencies

Hizbullah chief Hassan Nasrallah said on Wednesday that Israeli attacks had not weakened its rocket capabilities and its fighters would turn south Lebanon into a "graveyard" for invading Israeli troops.

In a televised speech, Nasrallah called on the Arab residents of Haifa to quit the Israeli city to avoid being hurt by Hizbullah rocket fire.

Nasrallah also said Wednesday that the US-French draft ceasefire plan was "unfair and unjust." In his first comments since the draft UN Resolution was unveiled on Sunday, the Shiite cleric gave a deeply negative assessment of the plan.

In his first comments since the draft U.N. Resolution was unveiled on Sunday, the Shiite cleric gave a deeply negative assessment of the plan

"The least we can describe this (draft resolution) is as unfair and unjust. It has given Israel more than it wanted and more than it was looking for," he said.

In a major shift in the Hizbullah position, Nasrallah said the organization was solidly behind a Lebanese government plan to deploy 15,000 soldiers in south Lebanon once a ceasefire is reached and Israel pulls out its forces.

"In the past we used to oppose or not agree on deployment of the army at the borders ... Because we were concerned about the army. ... We agree on deployment of the army, but do not hide our fear for it," Nasrallah said.

(08.09.06, 20:52)

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3288947,00.html

stunster August 9, 2006 - 3:03pm
Hezbollah

In the past we used to oppose or not agree on deployment of the army at the borders ... Because we were concerned about the army. ... We agree on deployment of the army, but do not hide our fear for it," Nasrallah said.

Odd, I thought the Lebanese governement was voted into power, not Hezbollah. Hmmmm.

Mad Dog

MadDog August 10, 2006 - 8:23pm
Nasrallah warns Arab residents of Haifa to leave their homes

Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah on Wednesday warned all Israeli Arabs to leave the port city of Haifa so his guerrilla organization could step up attacks without fear of shedding the blood of fellow Muslims.
"I have a special message to the Arabs of Haifa, to your martyrs and to your wounded. I call you to leave this city. I hope you do this. ... Please leave so we don't shed your blood, which is our blood."

More at the source:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/748424.html

Comment:
Why would they start a more powerful attack now and by using what weapons? To attract the Israelis faster inside southern Lebanon?

-- Happy fishing in ocean of noise!

Gandalf August 9, 2006 - 3:11pm
Quite the ethnic chauvanist, isn't he?

I guess Muslim lives are more valuable than non-Muslims lives, huh?

Sully August 9, 2006 - 3:27pm
A kind person

He doesn't deny non-Muslims to leave the city, but I suspect that local Israelis might prevent it. There are no public shelters in Arab areas in Israel?

-- Happy fishing in ocean of noise!

Gandalf August 9, 2006 - 3:37pm
You're right

He's a great guy.

A real humanitarian.

On October 22, 2002, Hassan Nasrallah told Lebanon’s Daily Star, “If they [the Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them world wide.”

http://terrapin.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=306611

Sully August 9, 2006 - 3:47pm
Nasrallah's tourism

But if we count, as you kindly suggested, that a killed Israeli equals to a killed Lebanese, isn't Nasrallah lagging badly?

Are Israelis giving their helping hand?
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3288355,00.html (link from The Agonist).

I'm sure the Jewish community in Iran is still safe.

-- Happy fishing in ocean of noise!

Gandalf August 9, 2006 - 5:34pm
Isn't this how it went down in '48 and '67

Arab leaders tell the Palestinians to evacuate the area so they can come in and slaughter the Jews. Palestinians leave and find they aren't allowed back in to their villages and the fierce Arab leaders who had instructed them to leave in the first place now keep them in refugee camps with awful living conditions.

If I were a Haifa Israeli Arab I would think twice about following that advice again.

Sully August 9, 2006 - 9:23pm
C'mon, man! In both 1948 and 1967...

both Arab and Israeli actions contributed to the evacuation (which was far less significant in the latter case). Benny Morris, among others, wrote about the very significant role of the Israelis in this in 1948. There was that wee demographic problem, first off (how to make a Jewish state with all those nasty aboriginals still in place), plus the confiscations of property and land (sometimes involving people who'd only left for a few days) were quite convenient.

Not exactly like the situation south of the Litani now, of course: Israel only wants that land cleared of inhabitants to minimise the embarassing civilian deaths in the new free-fire zone.

ScottM August 9, 2006 - 11:47pm
C'mon Scott!

Better they should just kill a lot of civillians while battling Hezbollah, huh Scott?
Given that they are not seeking to occupy this area and annex it, evacuating civillians, who will be able to return to their villages as soon as the fighting ceases, seems to be a rather humane path. I realize it seriously inconveniences Hezbollah, which relies on the cover that civillians provide them, but such is war.

Hezbollah is seeking two high body counts: Isreali (military and civillian) and Lebanese civillians. Israel seems to be trying to deny them both, but is willing to give them both if the alternative is losing.

Sully August 10, 2006 - 12:34am
I would say the

the people of Qana and the other 1000 odd civilians who have died as Israel wantonly exercises its self-righteous wrath may feel it's a little late for this faux concern

Better they should just kill a lot of civillians while battling Hezbollah, huh Scott?

and if any indication is needed that an Arab life is seen in Israel as less worthy than that of its own people:

but is willing to give them both if the alternative is losing.

.

I don't have words for a statement like that...

Asylum August 10, 2006 - 7:05am
You disagree?

You don't think the Israelis are willing to sacrifice hundreds or thousands of their own soldiers and incur significant collateral damage in order to defeat Hezbollah and protect their own citizens? Maybe you're right Asylum. I'm just reporting it as I see it.

"the people of Qana and the other 1000 odd civilians who have died as Israel wantonly exercises its self-righteous wrath may feel it's a little late for this faux concern"

Actually - I believe the Israelis dropped multiple leaflets warning that they were going to be bombing Qana and instructing civilians to leave. Perhaps someone with a better knowledge of combat history can inform us if this has ever been done before. I'm not excusing their actions in Qana, I'm just trying to help you describe what actually happened since you seem to be having trouble finding the right words.

Sully August 10, 2006 - 9:23am
leaflet dropping

big deal, it would mean a hell of a lot more if after they dropped their leaflets they would have let people leave before bombing their exit points. It might make the Israeli feel better to say they warned them, but their follow up action make the droppings useless.


In these times you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning. ~ Carl Sandburg

Tina August 10, 2006 - 10:06am
point well taken

I don't know how they go about making their decisions on these matters. The Israelis seem to have two competing interests:
1) Cut off access for new missles to be brought in to the zone. Syria is continually resupplying Hezbollah with rockets and the Israelis want to make sure these weapons don't make it down to the border and eventually into Israel

2) Minimize civilian casualties for moral and strategic reasons. The Israelis at the very least want to contain the number of civilian casualties so they are not constrained by international pressure in pursuing Hezbollah targets.

How you get the civillians out of the battle area, while at the same time keep Hezbollah from transporting missles seems like a tall order to me. Not everyone can walk, and not everyone has a small car. Trucks are considered targets so they are not an option.

Now one can try to make the argument that the Israelis actually do want to kill civilians, and this is all an elaborate set up to do just that, but I'm more inclined to see this as another poorly executed component of the war for Israel. They certainly have shown themselves capable of being less than competent in executing aspects of the battle.

Sully August 10, 2006 - 10:45am
Solving the evacuation problem

How you get the civilians out of the battle area, while at the same time keep Hezbollah from transporting missles seems like a tall order to me. Not everyone can walk, and not everyone has a small car. Trucks are considered targets so they are not an option.

How about giving them all free gasoline at the gas stations you've just bombed? No, wait, that won't work...

I know. Instead of dropping leaflets, how about droping large piles of money for the hiring of taxis which can't get across the Litani because all the bridges have been bombed? No, wait, that won't work either....

Wait, how about telling people the location of numerous landing/pick-up points in southern Lebanon where they can board IAF helicopters to get a ride out of the war zone provided they don't share this information with Hizballah out of anger at having their country's infrastructure destroyed? No, wait, that won't work....

Hmmm. Tough one.

Wait! I've got it! How about stopping the war, agreeing to the Siniora government's 7-Point Plan for ending the crisis, fully withdrawing from all Occupied Territories, becoming a fully non-confessional/non-discriminatory state, signing a peace and mutual aid deal with Syria and selling nuclear power technology to Iran in return for cheaper oil? Then you wouldn't have to evacuate civilians from south Lebanon!

Hey, that might work, if Israel could be bothered to put a few of its supposedly brilliant minds to work on it.

stunster August 10, 2006 - 1:54pm
brilliant ?

Wait! I've got it! How about stopping the war, agreeing to the Siniora government's 7-Point Plan for ending the crisis, fully withdrawing from all Occupied Territories, becoming a fully non-confessional/non-discriminatory state, signing a peace and mutual aid deal with Syria and selling nuclear power technology to Iran in return for cheaper oil? Then you wouldn't have to evacuate civilians from south Lebanon!
Hey, that might work, if Israel could be bothered to put a few of its supposedly brilliant minds to work on it.

If you think Syria or Iran would roll over and play nice, you arent half as brilliant as you think you are. Iran sell oil to Israel ? Come back to reality, please.

Mad Dog

MadDog August 10, 2006 - 8:27pm
Absolutely not

the Israelis are willing to sacrifice hundreds or thousands of their own soldiers and incur significant collateral damage in order to defeat Hezbollah and protect their own citizens?

The Israelis are already evacuating themselves to safer countries.

OK, it started earlier because of internal racism between Jews in Israel.

-- Happy fishing in ocean of noise!

Gandalf August 10, 2006 - 1:05pm
'Evacuating civilians'...

Really? How much 'evacuation' of Lebanese civilians has Israel done in this war. That translates as giving them orders to get out, because Israel is interested in creating a free-fire zone in the area, and then firing on their vehicles when they try to leave.

But in any case, this tactic is contrary to international law: there's a good, accessible account of this at
http://www.crimesofwar.org/thebook/free-fire-zones.html and
http://www.crimesofwar.org/thebook/civilian-illegal-target.html. (The latter notes Israel's use of this tactic repeatedly in southern Lebanon over the last 15 years.)

But who knows? Now that Israel is paying so much attention to UN resolutions concerning southern Lebanon, perhaps (pie-in-the-sky, maybe...) they'll turn their attention to similar resolutions on the Occupied Territories... and maybe even theh Geneva conventions.

ScottM August 10, 2006 - 11:52am
Telling civilians to "evacuate war zones

or they will be targetable" is what happens when you give DumFux a little information like "insurgents swim in civilian populations; drain the lake" and then give them the muscle to enact strategy from it.

Naturally it's supposed to mean "drain their support", not "evacuate or kill the civilians".

Done like this it provokes the exact contrary results to that which the maxim was designed to produce - hardened and uprooted new insurgent supporters with grudges.

If they were ten IQ points dumber, they'd be physically draining actual lakes and trawling them with nets trying to catch the last wriggling terrorists.

Escher Sketch August 10, 2006 - 12:31pm
Hey

it worked in Fallujah...tell them to leave, prevent them from going and then declare them complicit to terror. Then you kill the evil bastards right?

As a nation partially born out of a reaction to a great evil in Europe, Israel and its citzens surely seems able to find a way to justify an unjustifiable litany of great evils perpetrated in its name...

Asylum August 10, 2006 - 8:00pm
We are shovelling the sh*t so high

for our grandchildren right now.

Escher Sketch August 10, 2006 - 8:12pm
As opposed...

to the other way around.

ScottM August 9, 2006 - 4:05pm
Scuse me?

Didn't they only recently start counting the dead in Iraq? They weren't important to the US military, it was the Iraqi govt that started counting.

Seeing as the Isreali's are quite to content to take muslim lives in about a 20-1 ratio of Isreali lives, I think it's quite clear what they consider the value of a muslim live to be.

Carib

Caribdude August 9, 2006 - 5:26pm
after

decades of actions and words from Israel indicating that an Israeli life is worth more than a Palestinian or Lebanese life, I guess you may well get that reaction.

Asylum August 9, 2006 - 7:20pm
Ethnic chauvinism

is Israel's raison d'etre.

As originally and presently constituted.

stunster August 9, 2006 - 8:01pm
Zionism is a type of nazism

I think they had no other easy political alternative.

National socialism as such was not applicable because they arrived from different nations. Thus they developed religious socialism.

Later their Muslim fellow neighbours adapted it. It is called fundamentalism.

Often Muslim leaders demand the end of Zionistic state. European political elite agrees with the idea seeing the constitution of Israel as a relic from 19th century.

-- Happy fishing in ocean of noise!

Gandalf August 10, 2006 - 1:13pm
I think that there are far better models...

for the Zionist project that don't involve invoking the Nazis.

The attempts (most recently by Alan Dershowitz, for example) to declare Palestine terra nullius before that establishment of the state of Israel come out of the playbook of settler societies like that in Australia. The tension between religious fundamentalists who believe in a God-given right to land and politicians trying to put the boots to an insurgency is similar to South Africa during the 1980s, as is the rationalisation for land acquisitions in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Another similarity to the latter cases is the existence of considerable resistance to these projects among the dominant (Jewish) population of the country (who are, among other things, difficult to label 'anti-semitic...').

Israel isn't much like Nazi Germany... but what was that other, recent comparison? "Serbia with nuclear weapons." That works better, from my point of view.

ScottM August 10, 2006 - 2:16pm
Imagine

if Nasrallah had said that every vehicle moving on the roads of northern Israel would be considered a legitimate target, and that the Israeli tanks and troop carriers and artillery pieces clogging the roads of northern Israeli villages would be targeted even though there were many Israeli civilians living nearby.

Would that be ok with everyone?

I'd just hate to think the US media might adopt double standards, or anything.

stunster August 9, 2006 - 9:10pm
on the subject of water...

I don't know if the strategic value of Litani IS potable and/or irrigable water (for agriculture) though it may be.

However it MUST be said that water IS an essential issue in the Israel/Palestine conflict.

A quick look at hydrology maps of Israel/Palestine (and Golan area) tells the story. See
http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/pdf/water_israel_palestine.pdf

Notice in particular the "sweet water sources" that surround - surprise! - the hotly contested Shebaa Farms area.

Suggest looking at the location of the natural, fresh water acquifiers of the "high pumping potential" with an overlay of:
1) jewish settlement activity in the West Bank.
2) Israel's security "barrier" (wall ruled illegal by by the israeli supreme court AND the international court of justice)

It's about surival. That means water.

Note bene: I am informed by reliable sources (my brother, who lives in the northern Galilee region currently under daily rocket barrage)that Israel has completely polluted and over-used the nearly neglibible water resources it already has: e.g. the Hayarkon River is so polluted as to be a hazard to any living thing that should come into contact with it -- including any naturally occuring aquatic life.

dwgelbman August 9, 2006 - 4:53pm
U.S. Directs Criticism at Israel

By NEDRA PICKLER
Associated Press Writer
Aug 9, 4:20 PM EDT

CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) -- The White House said Wednesday neither Israel nor Hezbollah should escalate their month-old war, a pointed comment after Israel decided to widen its ground invasion of southern Lebanon.

Although White House press secretary Tony Snow said the message was for both sides, his remarks came as Israel's Security Cabinet voted to expand the war effort in an attempt to deal further blows to Hezbollah. The criticism was among the administration's strongest concerning longtime ally Israel since the fighting began.

link

Escher Sketch August 9, 2006 - 5:34pm
so I guess

GWB has hurridly cancelled all those munitions flights to Israel, going via Scotland? I mean, he's a man of his word right?

Asylum August 9, 2006 - 7:24pm
IDF confirms 15 Israeli fatalities

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/1,7340,L-3289000,00.html

More details:

15 reservists killed in Lebanon battles

Nine elite unit troops killed after missile fired by Hizbullah causes building they were in to collapse. More than 20 soldiers injured in incident. Forces on the ground report of difficulties in rescuing wounded. Six more soldiers killed in three other incidents
Hanan Greenberg

Nine elite IDF unit soldiers were killed, seven troops have been seriously injured, and 10 sustained light to moderate wounds after a building they were staying in collapsed as a result of a missile strike in the Lebanese village of Dibel.

Shortly after 1 p.m. Hizbullah gunmen fired several missiles at a structure in which the soldiers were staying. One missile hit the building, causing an arms cache to explode. Several soldiers were hurt as a result. A short while later, the structure partially collapsed, and a few other troops were hurt as well.

The forces on the ground reported of difficulties in rescuing the soldiers that have been buried underneat5h the rubble. Home Front Command units stationed in northern Israel have also been placed on high alert in case they need to enter Lebanon and assist with the rescue efforts. .

Throughout Tuesday night, reserve forces have entered different areas in southern Lebanon, mainly in the eastern and central sector. Some of the units are due to operate in regions where the IDF has not operated thus far.

The recent incident joins a series of difficult clashes in which soldiers were hurt after various types of missiles were fired at structures they were using as shelter.

http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1,2506,L-3288870,00.html

stunster August 9, 2006 - 5:45pm
What's interesting about this

is that Al-Jazeera was reporting it for at least an hour before the Israeli media did.

That, and the fact that the deaths occurred in Ayta al-Shaab and Debel and Marjayoun, all just north of the border, 30 days into this war, with Israel enjoying complete air supremacy.

And the fact that Hizballah launched more than 160 rockets into Israel today (according to Haaretz), including several of their longer range ones, while Nasrallah manages to tell the US to get lost on TV.

Doubtless, Israel will keep at it and prevail in some kind of conventional sense eventually. But in a larger strategic sense, this war is an astonishing triumph for the ideology of radical Shia Islam. And there are well over 80 million Shia in the region.

Israel now really has no long term option but to topple the regime in Teheran and hope that a US-controlled puppet replacement one will last indefinitely.

Actually there is another option. And that is to allow Israel to cease to be the 'Jewish State', and instead become a secularized multi-ethnic, multi-religious demilitarized democracy. Rather similar, ironically, to the aspirations of the Cedar revolutionaries for Lebanon, whose dreams Israel is now destroying.

stunster August 9, 2006 - 6:44pm
Actually, Al-Jazeera was

Actually, Al-Jazeera was reporting 11 IDF fatalities 3 hours before the official Israeli announcement, before upping the figure to 'at least 15' about an hour or so before the IDF put out its statement.

In this case, as in a good number of others in this war, al-Jazeera was well ahead of the Western media which sucks almost solely at the tit of the IDF media office.

stunster August 9, 2006 - 7:11pm
AP reported Al Jazeera this morning

11 Israeli Soldiers Reportedly Killed
By KARIN LAUB , 08.09.2006, 09:15 AM

AP - Arab satellite TV Al-Jazeera reported that 11 Israeli soldiers were killed Wednesday in heavy fighting with Hezbollah guerrillas near the border in south Lebanon. Meanwhile, Israel's Security Cabinet debated a proposal to vastly expand its ground offensive in Lebanon, with key ministers arguing the military must deal more blows to Hezbollah and score quick battlefield victories before a cease-fire is imposed.

More Hezbollah rockets were fired at northern Israeli towns Wednesday - including several medium-range missiles that landed near the West Bank town of Jenin and south of the Israeli city of Afula - bringing the total during the conflict to 3,333, police said.

By mid-afternoon, the guerrillas had fired 132 rockets, but no casualties were immediately reported, said police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld.

Five of the rockets landed near a Palestinian town in the West Bank on Wednesday, Palestinian security officials said. There were no casualties.

The rockets landed near the village of Arabani, on the Israel-West Bank frontier, the officials said. Clouds of smoke from the rockets could be seen 12 miles away in the town of Jenin, witnesses said.

The Israeli army declined to comment on reports about the 11 soldiers' deaths but said earlier that 15 soldiers were wounded in overnight clashes.

more


In these times you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning. ~ Carl Sandburg

In these times you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning. ~ Carl Sandburg

Tina August 9, 2006 - 7:23pm
Well, good for AP

that they realized Al-Jazeera had the scoop.

Btw, within the last hour:

Breaking News Al Jazeera:
Galile team Commander and Golani commander (Israel army) have been hit
__________________

stunster August 9, 2006 - 8:15pm

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