Israeli-Hezbollah Conflict Open Thread VIII

July 31

Team Agonist - This is the Middle East Crisis VI open-thread. Please post all developments, news stories, comments, links, theories, ideas, etc. here in this thread. The earlier threads can be found here and here and here. and here. and here. and here and here.. If you post comments in this thread, please do not post identical news articles in the newsqueue.

Ha'aretz: Three IDF soldiers killed by anti-tank fire in village of Ayta a-Shab

Three IDF soldiers were killed in battles with Hezbollah fighters in Ayta a-Shab on Tuesday. Twenty-five soldiers were also lightly wounded.

IDF paratroopers have been operating in Ayta a-Shab since Monday. The IDF said Tuesday that at least 10 Hezbollah guerillas were killed in the clashes.

IDF commandos conducting raid deep in Lebanon

Witnesses in Baalbek said they saw dozens of IAF helicopters hovering over the city. They said a private hospital in Baalbek, filled with patients and wounded people, was bombed by IAF helicopters late Tuesday. Plumes of burning smoke billowed from the hospital after it was directly hit, they said.

More as it develops. Updated map below.

Lebanon: Fighting West Of Baalbek

Hezbollah forces are fighting Israeli troops on the ground west of Baalbek, Lebanon, Hezbollah's al-Manar television reported Aug. 1.

Lebanon: Israeli Helo Crew Surrounded - Hezbollah

Hezbollah claimed that its forces have surrounded Israel's helicopter crew in the eastern Lebanese city of Baalbek, Naharnet reported Aug. 1.

Lebanon: Israeli Copters Land Soldiers Near Baalbek

Israeli helicopters landed soldiers near the Hezbollah stronghold of Baalbek, Lebanon, on Aug. 1, Lebanese security forces said. Israel Defense Forces has yet to confirm.

Hezbollah's Tactics and Capabilities in Southern Lebanon

With its attack on Hezbollah in southern Lebanon, Israel is fighting on terrain that has been prepared by the Shiite movement for six years since the Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon in 2000. Israeli Defense Force (IDF) soldiers have described finding a network of concrete bunkers with modern communications equipment as deep as 40 meters along the border (Ynet News, July 23). The terrain is already well-suited for ambushes and hidden troop movements, consisting of mountains and woods in the east and scrub-covered hills to the west, all intersected by deep wadis (dry river beds). Broken rocks and numerous caves provide ample cover. Motorized infantry and armor can only cross the region with difficulty. Use of the few winding and unpaved roads invites mines and ambushes by Hezbollah's adaptable force of several thousand guerrillas.

August 1, Israeli Tactical Guidance:

Israeli troops are engaged in four separate locations across southern Lebanon, and have reportedly pushed as deep as several miles past the Lebanese border. IDF units remain in Maroun al-Ras, although the town of Bent Jbail has reportedly been devastated and abandoned. Paratroopers are in Aita el-Shaab to the west, where Hezbollah has said there is house-to-house fighting; four Hezbollah fighters were reportedly killed. The Golani and Nahal brigades continue to battle Hezbollah in the villages of Al Adisa, Kfar Kila and Taibe, with reports of fighting as far north as Marjayoun. Approximately 60 IDF D9 armored Caterpillar bulldozers are flattening abandoned Hezbollah positions across southern Lebanon. An Israeli airstrike targeted a westbound road out of Hermel with five air-to-surface missiles in the northern Bekaa Valley. The main border crossing from Beirut to Damascus at Masnaa was also struck.

Tactical Update:

Israeli troops are engaged in four separate locations across southern Lebanon, and have reportedly pushed as deep as several miles past the Lebanese border. Israel Defense Forces (IDF) units remain in Maroun al-Ras, although the town of Bent Jbail has reportedly been devastated and abandoned. [snip]

Approximately 60 IDF D9 armored Caterpillar bulldozers are flattening abandoned Hezbollah positions across southern Lebanon. The Israeli government intends to clear a one-mile-wide "security zone" by Aug. 2.

Israel: Military Asks For Four Weeks

Israel Defense Forces has asked for a minimum of four weeks to destroy Hezbollah, Israeli Justice Minister Haim Ramon said on Israeli television Aug. 1.

Israel: 300 Hezbollah Killed

About 300 of an estimated 2,000 Hezbollah fighters have been killed during the past three weeks of fighting in Lebanon, Israeli Justice Minister Haim Ramon announced on Israeli TV on Aug. 1.

Lebanon: IAF Strikes In Bekaa Valley

Israeli warplanes struck Hermel in Lebanon's Bekaa Valley on Aug. 1. Five air-to-surface missiles were reportedly fired at a road connecting to western Lebanon. Bekaa Valley is a Hezbollah stronghold. No casualties or damage have yet been reported.

Israel: 3 More Reserve Divisions Called Up

Three Israeli reserve divisions, totaling at least 15,000 reservists, will be called up to support the Israeli security Cabinet's decision to expand ground operations into Lebanon, Israel Radio reported Aug. 1.

Israel and Lebanon Ready for More

The latest lunacy from conservative blogs: Qana was staged. Ho-boy.

Hezbollywood? Frankly, I simply don't know what to say about this, this or this. The conservative blogs have taken to calling it "death porn." They're also pointing to this article, which states the bombing happened hours before the building actually fell. So why the delay in the building collapsing? Read the rest at the link.

Israel: Cabinet Expands Ground War

The security cabinet voted in the early hours of Tuesday morning to expand Israel's ground operation in south Lebanon.

Under the plan, and similar to last week's operation carried out in Bint Jbail, IDF forces will mount raids on villages that have served as Hezbollah bases. The plan was presented to Olmert during meetings held Saturday with Defense Minister Amir Peretz and defense establishment heads.

Tactical Update:

This weekend saw a dramatic shift in Israeli military activity in southern Lebanon. Israel has pulled back from Bent Jbail and begun to deploy into Lebanon the forces massed in the northeast. While Israel Defense Forces (IDF) air strikes were officially halted following the deaths of 54 civilians in Qana, the scale and tempo of ground operations have actually increased. Close air support has also continued. The IDF has begun pushing into the areas west of Bent Jbail and near the Israeli border town of Metulla.

AIPAC's Hold

[I]t's impossible to talk about Congress's relationship to Israel without highlighting AIPAC, the American Jewish community's most important voice on the Hill. The Congressional reaction to Hezbollah's attack on Israel and Israel's retaliatory bombing of Lebanon provide the latest example of why.

Israel: Olmert -- Hezbollah Has Been Hit Hard

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said July 31 that Hezbollah has been dealt a heavy blow during ongoing Israel attacks against its bases and personnel in southern Lebanon, and may never recover.

Israeli Strikes Resume After Brief Lull

Israeli warplanes carried out airstrikes in southern Lebanon on Monday, hours after agreeing to temporarily halt raids while investigating a bombing that killed nearly 60 Lebanese civilians, mostly women and children seeking shelter.

Israel: Hezbollah Leader Killed

Jihad Adiya, Hezbollah's head of logistics in southern Lebanon, was among those killed in clashes with Israeli troops, according to an Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) list of Hezbollah members killed as of July 31. Adiya allegedly was involved in the kidnapping of three IDF soldiers in 2000.

Lebanon: Israeli Troops Push Into New Area

Israeli troops made a new incursion into southern Lebanon on July 31, entering the Aita al-Shaab area, a spokesman said. Hezbollah said its guerrillas are engaging the advancing force.

Lebanon: Missiles Fired At Car

The Israeli air force fired missiles at a car near Tyre, Lebanon, it believed was carrying a senior Hezbollah official July 31. The car, however, contained a Lebanese army officer and two Lebanese soldiers. Israel said that the 48-hour halt in airstrikes did not apply to imminent threats.


Sean Paul Kelley August 1, 2006 - 5:59pm

just carried a live feed of Elmert.

Israel rejects cease-fire. The war goes on.

Same report just said that the IAF hit an ambulance.

Same report also said Israel refused to let a UN convoy through to Qana.

stunster July 31, 2006 - 1:07pm

I think. It is ... graphic, eat before:
http://www.ghaliboun.net/eindex.php

-- Happy fishing in ocean of noise!

Gandalf July 31, 2006 - 1:26pm

20:03 Olmert: We should be ready for pain, tears and blood (Haaretz)

20:02 Olmert: Missiles and rockets will still land in Israel in coming days (Haaretz)

20:01 Olmert: No small number of days of fighting still await us (Haaretz)

20:01 Olmert: We won`t cease offensive until our objectives are accomplished (Haaretz)

19:59 Olmert: This is an opportunity to change `rules of the game` in Lebanon (Haaretz)

19:58 Olmert: We will continue to hunt Hezbollah everywhere (Haaretz)

19:56 Olmert: Hezbollah has suffered a considerable blow (Haaretz)

19:53 PM: We will compensate employers and employees in the north (Haaretz)

19:51 Olmert: I am sorry for the civilian casualties at Qana (Haaretz)

19:50 Olmert: We will not apologize to those who question Israel`s right to exist (Haaretz)

19:49 Olmert: Hezbollah serves the interests of Iran and Syria (Haaretz)

19:48 Olmert: No state would tolerate `murderous attacks` Israel faces (Haaretz)

19:47 Olmert: We are not fighting the Lebanese people; we are fighting terrorism (Haaretz)

19:45 Olmert: We won`t abandon our desire to lead a normal existence (Haaretz)

19:43 Olmert: Israel is `determined to win` the conflict in Lebanon (Haaretz)

19:40 Olmert: We`ll end offensive when northern Israel no longer threatened (Haaretz)

19:39 Olmert: Offensive will end when rockets cease, soldiers are returned (Haaretz)

19:34 Olmert: There is no cease-fire and there won`t be one in coming days (Haaretz)

stunster July 31, 2006 - 1:28pm

Israel: No cease-fire in coming days
Hopes dim for quick end to Mideast crisis

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said Monday there would be no cease-fire in the coming days to fighting between his nation's forces and Lebanon-based Hezbollah militia.

"Israel is continuing to fight," Olmert said during an address in Jerusalem to mayors from northern Israel.

"We will stop the war when the (rocket) threat is removed..., our captive soldiers return home in peace, and you are able to live in safety and security."

Other developments on Monday pointed to a lengthening of the 20-day-old conflict. The United Nations Security Council postponed indefinitely a meeting on setting up a new peacekeeping force for the area.

President Bush said Monday there could be no cease-fire until Hezbollah was reined in and international borders respected, reiterating the U.S. stance on the conflict.

Meanwhile Hezbollah's Al-Manar television station claimed Hezbollah missiles hit an Israeli warship. An Israeli security source said no Israeli vessel had been hit, according to Reuters news service.

Reuters also reported that Hezbollah said the attack was retaliation for Sunday's bombing of Qana, Lebanon, that killed at least 54 civilians. .(Watch why Qana residents said they couldn't get out of harm's way [viewer discretion advised] -- 1:52)

The airstrike -- which killed many children and sparked international outrage -- threatened to derail work toward a resolution in the 20-day conflict between Israel and Lebanon-based Hezbollah guerrillas
U.N. talks on hold
At the United Nations, a Security Council meeting on planning for a new peacekeeping force had been delayed "until there is more political clarity" on the path ahead in the Middle East conflict, Reuters news agency reported

U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan had called the meeting last Friday, but the world's major powers have said no force can be put in place until fighting stops and Israel, Lebanon and Hezbollah agree to its deployment, Reuters reported.

And Israel's defense minister told the nation's parliament it would increase military pressure against Hezbollah in Lebanon.

Despite an agreement to stop airstrikes for 48 hours, Israel dropped bombs in southern Lebanon on Monday....

Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/31/mideast.main/index.html

stunster July 31, 2006 - 1:36pm

20:30 Egypt`s Mubarak warns entire Mideast peace process could collapse (Reuters)

Clash between HA & Israel Army in Kfarkila & Edayse area.

Source NewTV

وتم تدمير دبابتين للاحتلال حاولتا التوغل من مستعمرة المطلة في اتجاه كفر كلا - العديسة ويترافق ذلك مع قصف مدفعي اسرائيلي يستهدف المنطقة.
المصدر:وكالات ـ "الوكالة الوطنية للاعلام". بتاريخ 31/07/2006 الساعة 10:36

Translation: resistant fighters have blocked the advance of the enemy since 10 am that tried to enter through al-3adsieh and kafarkila. two tanks destroyed .
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Israel air raids on Owayda near Marjayoun despite an Israeli-proclaimed 48-hour suspension of airstrikes

Bodies of 26 people, believed killed in Israeli airstrikes at the beginning of the offensive, are unearth from under the rubble in the village of Srifa

Israeli warships bomb a Lebanese army base in Qasmiyeh, 1 killed and 3 others injured

French FM Douste-Blazy calls for immediate ceasefire and says he wishes the Security Council would have adopted a tougher stance

Source Naharnet

12:33 - Four Lebanese soldiers wounded by Israeli naval fire

12:22 - Villepin says that Israeli bombardment pause "insufficient" first step

11:57 - Peretz says that Israel cannot agree to immediate ceasefire in Lebanon

Source Naharnet

12:38 TYRE (Reuters) - Israeli fire on a Lebanese army post on the main coastal road in south Lebanon on Monday killed one soldier and wounded three, security sources said.

They said it was not immediately clear if Israeli aircraft or warships carried out the attack on the post in Qasmiyeh village north of the port city of Tyre.
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13:27 Hezbollah fires volley of rockets at Upper Galilee; brush fires break out (Haaretz)

13:24 Russia criticizes delays in calling for immediate cease-fire in Lebanon (Reuters)

13:03 Two arrested in Haifa on suspicion of planning terror attack (Channel Two)

13:01 Police tell public to avoid Haifa`s lower city amid terror warnings (Israel Radio)

12:50 Large police forces on alert in Haifa due to terror warning (Israel Radio)

الملخص:المقاومة الإسلامية تدمر خمس دبابات صهيونية وجرافتين وجيب مصفحا في مواجهات كفركلا العديسة

المصدر:المقاومة الاسلامية. بتاريخ 31/07/2006 الساعة 14:45

Translation: brave resistant fighters destroyed 5 tanks and 2 bulldozers and one jeep while trying to enter kafarkala and 3adsieh.
-------------
Israeli military expresses regret for bombing a car carrying Lebanese soldiers today
CNN

(10:04:23) source haaretz
- Senior government source: Despite IAF curbs, there is no cease-fire
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(10:32:29) source ynetnews

- Report: Large explosion takes place in Beirut international airport
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17:33 IDF denies responsibility for bombing near Beirut airport (Haaretz)
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18:11 Gov`t source: IDF has destroyed two thirds of Hezbollah`s long-range missiles (Reuters)

18:08 UN Security Council meeting on int`l force for south Lebanon postponed to Tuesday (Haaretz)
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hizballah just announced the destroy of the second warship 'sa3er' which contains 53 officer and soldier in front of tyr coast
saying this is the first reply to qana massacre

hizbollah destroys an Israeli warship infront of Sour. (Al Manar TV)

Also reported by LBC

18.40:غارتان على نقطة المصنع عند الحدود اللبنانية السورية استهدفت إحداهما شاحنة مدنية

[translation]

two raids over syria lebanese border in masna3 targetted civilian truck
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the israeli warship has 53 israeli soldier on board (manar, new tv, TL, LBC, future)
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19:06 Israeli security sources: No Israeli vessels hit off Lebanon coast (Reuters)

19:04 Hezbollah says fired rocket and hit IDF warship off coast of Tyre (Reuters)

18:56 IAF drone fires rocket at truck on Lebanese crossing point into Syria (Reuters)

18:45 UN extends mandate of peacekeeping force in Lebanon by one month (AP)

18:37 14 Jordanian lawmakers ask their government to end envoy exchange with Israel (AP)

18:11 Gov`t source: IDF has destroyed two thirds of Hezbollah`s long-range missiles (Reuters)

18:08 UN Security Council meeting on int`l force for south Lebanon postponed to Tuesday (Haaretz)

17:34 Bush: Iran, Syria must end their support for Hezbollah (Reuters)

17:33 IDF denies responsibility for bombing near Beirut airport (Haaretz)
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الملخص:التصدي للعدوان على لبنان
حققت المقاومة الإسلامية إنجازاً جديداً يهز هيبة البحرية الإسرائيلية مرة أخرى ، إذا تمكن مجاهدو المقاومة من إصابة وتدمير بارجة جديدة عند شاطىء صور عصر اليوم .وأكدت الشرطة اللبنانية إصابة بارجة إسرائيلية بصواريخ المقاومة . وأصدرت المقاومة الإسلامية البيان الآتي : قال تعالى ...وما رميت إذا رميت ولكن الله رمى...
يقتلون أطفالنا ونساءنا فنقتل جنودهم ، يدمرون بيوتنا ومساجدنا وكنائسنا ، فندمر بوارجهم ودباباتهم ، يقصفوننا بصواريخ أميركية غبية كغباء بوش ، فنقصفهم بصواريخ مسددة من الله القوي العزيز، وهذه بداية الثأر لأطفال قانا .
فعند الساعة الرابعة والنصف من غصر اليوم الإثنين 31/7/2006 ، هاجمت المقاومة الإسلامية بصواريخها المباركة سفينة حربية إسرائلية من نوع ساعر 4.5 ويتكون طاقمها من 53 ضابطاً وجندياً قبالة شواطىء صور وتمكنت من إصابتها وتدميرها .
وقد هرع إلى مكان السفينة الحربية المستهدفة عدد من القطع البحرية ومروحيات العدو لمساعدتها وإغاثتها.
هذا بعض ثأرنا من عدونا الذي يرتكب المجازر بحق أهلنا في قانا ومنطقة صور وكل لبنان المعمد بالدم والمنتصر بالدم .
وما النصر إلا من عند الله العزيز الجبار

Source: Al Jazeera

Translation: The Israeli TV said that an Israeli patrol was hit by an explosion in Golan hights
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المحتل
الملخص:اخبار المقاومة
نقلت قناة الجزيرة عن التلفزيون الاسرائيلي انع عبوة ناسفة استهدفت دورية لجيش العدو في الجولان العربي السوري المحتل
المصدر:تلفزيون العدو. بتاريخ 31/07/2006 الساعة 20:11

the enemy:explosion in a zionist patrol vichicle in the syrian golan heights.
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20:39 IDF: Syrian-made bomb explodes on army patrol road in Golan Heights (Reuters)

stunster July 31, 2006 - 2:05pm

Resistance fighters confront two Israeli elite soldiers near "Taybeh'" and "Odaiseh"; kill eight soldiers and destroy 2 tanks and hammer
31/07/2006

The Islamic Resistance issued a statement saying that after forcing the elite Golani forces out of Bint Jbeil, another unit of this Israeli Brigade infiltrated into the "Taybeh Project" region Sunday morning and were confronted by resistance fighters. The statement added that at least eight Israeli soldiers were killed when resistance fighters brought them around to a bulding and then
destroyed it on them. Helicopters were unable to evacuate the killed soldiers and the surrounding region was subject to heavy artillery fire. Resistance fighters confirmed they are in control of the town and that a group of the fighters are after the fleeing Israeli troops. According to news reports, Israeli war planes have conducted more than 115 air raids in the region since the morning. The Islamic Resistance also announced that its fighters are confronting an infiltrating unit of the Israeli army near the southern town of Odaiseh, and have destroyed a tank there, killing and injuring its crew. And near the "Mtelli" settlement, the Islamic Resistance announced its fighters have destroyed a Merkava tank and a Hammer military vehicle, killing and injuring both crews.

Islamic Resistance destroys five Israeli tanks, 2 bulldozers and an armored military vehicle
31/07/2006

The Islamic Resistance said in a statement that its fighters have destroyed five Israeli tanks, two bulldozers and an armored vehicle Monday afternoon, on the Kafarkila-Odaiseh-Taybeh front, killing and injurig their crews. Earlier, Israeli Maarif daily said that 11 Israeli soldiers were injured in ongoing confrontations between resistance fighters and Israeli forces in the region of "Taybeh." The Islamic Resistance said that after the Israeli defeat in Maroun el-Ras, Bint Jbeil and Taybeh, resistance fighters targeted an infiltrating B-9 bulldozer between the town of Kafakila anf Odaiseh, to open a road for tanks. The tank was destroyed and its crew were killed and injured. And on Monday morning, a convoy of tanks tried to advance between the two Lebanese towns and they were confronted by Islamic Resistance fighters who destroyed two of them while a third one flipped over and crashed on a road in occupied Palestine. The
crews of the three tanks were killed and injured.

http://www.almanar.com.lb/NewsSite/NewsDetails.aspx?id=600

stunster July 31, 2006 - 2:20pm

RAW STORY
Published: Monday July 31, 2006

An advertisement running on Fox News network today, paid for by The International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, is asking viewers to "stand with Israel in its time of need."

The commercial provides a toll free number, inviting viewers to call and declare their support. The narrator explains, "Your call can help someone in Israel whose life has been shattered by the current emergency."

video at link

Escher Sketch July 31, 2006 - 2:36pm

...The bodies of 26 civilians were dug from under the rubble of several houses that had been leveled on July 19 in Israeli airstrikes on the village of Srifa, 20 km northeast of Tyre. Almost 30 more are believed to still be buried under blocks of concrete.

Lebanese Red Cross workers, who were unable to reach the village before, said some bodies have started decomposing....

http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/NewsDesk.nsf/getstory?openform&0D2BD60A20A7DC67C22571BC0060B506

Hizbullah Attacks 2nd Israeli Warship Since the Beginning of the Onslaught as Villagers Flee en Masse

Hizbullah claimed its fighters fired a missile on an Israeli warship off the coast of the southern port city of Tyre on Monday as a lull in raids allowed thousands of villagers to flee the war-ravaged south.
The group's military wing, the Islamic Resistance, claimed in a statement that its fighters had "destroyed a Zionist warship ... off Tyre."

"At 4:30 pm (1330 GMT), the Islamic Resistance attacked with its blessed missiles an Israeli SAAR 4.5 (fast attack missile boat), with a crew of 53 officers and soldiers, off the coast of Tyre," it said.

"It was hit and destroyed.

"This is the beginning of the vengeance for the children of Qana."

http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/NewsDesk.nsf/getstory?openform&0D2BD60A20A7DC67C22571BC0060B506

stunster July 31, 2006 - 2:37pm

Well, 10 actually...

IDF buries 10 Hizbullah terrorists in Israel

Army official says transfer of terrorists’ bodies to Israel for burial not done at random; bodies may be used in future exchange deal for return of kidnapped soldiers
Hanan Greenberg

The Israel Defense Forces buried in Israel the bodies of 10 Hizbullah terrorists killed in fighting in southern Lebanon.

The bodies were buried in a military cemetery for fallen enemy soldiers at the Amiad military base in the north.

An IDF official told Ynet that dozens of terrorists were killed in face-to-face combat with army forces, but added that there is no point in transferring all the bodies to Israeli territory and that the activity itself endangers the soldiers.

The official refused to say how the IDF decided on which bodies would be transferred to Israel, but hinted that it was not done at random.

Army official says transfer of terrorists’ bodies to Israel for burial not done at random; bodies may be used in future exchange deal for return of kidnapped soldiers
Hanan Greenberg

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3284371,00.html

stunster July 31, 2006 - 2:56pm

but the relevant number is naturally not how many are killed but how many are left under arms after the killing.

Killing insurgents is effective when it makes the insurgency smaller. When, in the process of killing ten, one uses methods that make thirty more take up arms, I make that a casualty count of negative twenty for the day.

It's one of those modern technological miracles - bombs that cost their owner tens of thousands of dollars and actually bring twenty new enemies to life.

Escher Sketch July 31, 2006 - 10:23pm

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Corso August 2, 2006 - 5:25am

Link

From this report it does look like IDF tanks were indeed destroyed in the Taibeh fighting.

stunster July 31, 2006 - 3:02pm

which could just mean having a track blown off, or the engine holed. It's hard to destroy tanks, especially with the anti-tank weapons Hezbollah are using - sometimes easier to kill the crew than the tank, in fact (although the Merkavas that are all I've seen in Lebanon, and the Puma APCs reported hit, offer very strong protection to their crews...).

ScottM July 31, 2006 - 3:22pm

...here:

Three IDF soldiers were lightly wounded when Hezbollah gunmen fired anti-tank rockets at them during efforts to rescue a tank and a Puma vehicle that had been hit by Hezbollah fire during battles in Taibeh."

I think it's a lot more likely that they've scored mobility kills. If they'd actually destroyed the tanks, I'd expect them to be a bit more freaked out - certainly any time I've ever seen them talk about tanks being destroyed, they've been pretty unnerved.

"We declared war on terror, it's not even a noun, so, good luck. After we defeat it, I'm sure we'll take on that bastard ennui." - Jon Stewart.

JustPlainDave July 31, 2006 - 3:25pm

Israeli Army attempted an airdrop on the western range of the Lebanese montains and four Israeli raids targeted Faraya - Ouyoun El Siman road.
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23.39: محاولة إنزال على السلسلة الغربية لجبال لبنان، وأربع غارات على طريق فاريا - عيون السيمان

[Translation]
23:39: Israeli forces attempt ground invasion on the Western Mountain Chains of Lebanon and bombardements on the Faraya-3youn el Simen road.

stunster July 31, 2006 - 6:34pm

I posted this FORBES link before, but because the story has been picked up by sites less credible to agonistas, the baby has been tossed with the bath. In facts its an AP story by Joseph Panossian, published on July 12 by Forbes. Seems to me that it is is of essential importance in the present conflict to know whether the "kidnapped" soldiers were not captured on a Hezbollah foray into Israel, as has been roundly reported, but were, in fact, part of a team of a dozen or so Israeli soldiers who snuck into Lebanon where they were ambushed, two captured, 1 killed (body recently retrieved) and the remaineder hightailed it back across the border. Don't believe it? Then challenge Associated Press. (Incidentally, I notice this incident has of late been referred to as springing from a "cross border raid", which is sort of true, except that the first stories had the raid from Israel into Lebanon, not the other way around.)

The original story was also picked up by ABC NEWS on July 12.

Chickadee July 31, 2006 - 10:09pm

which side of the border they were captured on is that I personally don't think it had anything to do with the decision to attack.

I think the attack plans were in place. Any old excuse would have done.

Escher Sketch July 31, 2006 - 10:11pm

more lovely and pertinent reading from the neocon neonazi playbook
http://www.iasps.org/strat1.htm
[...]
Securing the Northern Border

Syria challenges Israel on Lebanese soil. An effective approach, and one with which American can sympathize, would be if Israel seized the strategic initiative along its northern borders by engaging Hizballah, Syria, and Iran, as the principal agents of aggression in Lebanon, including by:

* striking Syria’s drug-money and counterfeiting infrastructure in Lebanon, all of which focuses on Razi Qanan.

* paralleling Syria’s behavior by establishing the precedent that Syrian territory is not immune to attacks emanating from Lebanon by Israeli proxy forces.

* striking Syrian military targets in Lebanon, and should that prove insufficient, striking at select targets in Syria proper.

Israel also can take this opportunity to remind the world of the nature of the Syrian regime. Syria repeatedly breaks its word. It violated numerous agreements with the Turks, and has betrayed the United States by continuing to occupy Lebanon in violation of the Taef agreement in 1989. Instead, Syria staged a sham election, installed a quisling regime, and forced Lebanon to sign a "Brotherhood Agreement" in 1991, that terminated Lebanese sovereignty. And Syria has begun colonizing Lebanon with hundreds of thousands of Syrians, while killing tens of thousands of its own citizens at a time, as it did in only three days in 1983 in Hama.

Under Syrian tutelage, the Lebanese drug trade, for which local Syrian military officers receive protection payments, flourishes. Syria’s regime supports the terrorist groups operationally and financially in Lebanon and on its soil. Indeed, the Syrian-controlled Bekaa Valley in Lebanon has become for terror what the Silicon Valley has become for computers. The Bekaa Valley has become one of the main distribution sources, if not production points, of the "supernote" — counterfeit US currency so well done that it is impossible to detect.

Text:

Negotiations with repressive regimes like Syria’s require cautious realism. One cannot sensibly assume the other side’s good faith. It is dangerous for Israel to deal naively with a regime murderous of its own people, openly aggressive toward its neighbors, criminally involved with international drug traffickers and counterfeiters, and supportive of the most deadly terrorist organizations.

Given the nature of the regime in Damascus, it is both natural and moral that Israel abandon the slogan "comprehensive peace" and move to contain Syria, drawing attention to its weapons of mass destruction program, and rejecting "land for peace" deals on the Golan Heights.[...]

*************************************************
If this were 1700, they'd be saying: "Since civilization began, slavery has existed. It's human nature." I would have believed it. If 1800: "Women will never vote. They are not born rational". I would have believed it.
2006: Make war irrelevant

bernadene July 31, 2006 - 11:16pm

Well guess what.

Right now on MSNBC the reporter live from the border said something like, 'this all started, you'll remember, when two Israeli soldiers were captured in south Lebanon...'

stunster August 1, 2006 - 1:29pm

Where is the reporting coming from indicating armour, infantry and engineers in Qana? Tell me they're not bonkers enough to put ground forces into that...

While we're on the topic, I suspect that the Nahal and Golani markers are elements of the brigade. It's pretty common IDF practice to do much of the sort of stuff they're doing in these ops with the associated Sayaret and less with the line guys.

"We declared war on terror, it's not even a noun, so, good luck. After we defeat it, I'm sure we'll take on that bastard ennui." - Jon Stewart.

JustPlainDave July 31, 2006 - 10:18pm

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - It may have one of the world's mightiest militaries, but Israel has turned to imported beasts of burden to help troops wage a 20-day-old offensive against Hizbollah guerrillas in Lebanon.

Israeli newspapers carried pictures of South American llamas accompanying commandos out of southern Lebanon, their saddlebags full of fighting gear.

Yedioth Ahronoth daily quoted a senior Israeli military commander as saying the white-furred pack animals could carry up to 60 pounds each over rough terrain, were quiet and required feeding only once every two days.

Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:56 AM ET
http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=13026419

David Bier
CADRE Intel Mgr
http://groups.google.com/group/publicintel

techadvisor July 31, 2006 - 11:13pm

Any old excuse would have done.

Recent election results among Palestinians and Iranians were Israel's 'new Pearl Harbor'.

And so sooner or later they were going to have to 'destroy the village in order to save it'.

Israel is the only Middle Eastern democracy, you see. (Apart from Israel-hating Iraq and Israel-hating Lebanon, of course.)

But at least Iran isn't supplying weapons to nasty freedom-hating undemocratic regimes like Saudi Arabia and Egypt!

The essential purpose of the war is to teach the world that the correct answer to the following short quiz

Israel is willing to kill as many Arabs as it takes to achieve what Israel perceives as good for Israel regardless of how bad it is for Arabs.

True or False?

is, True.

stunster August 1, 2006 - 1:27am

As most of the genocidal talk I hear coming out of the middle east is from radical muslim fundamentalists intent on killing all the jews. I hear the exact opposite from the Israelis, sans a few nutbags. They don't want to kill civillians. They want to defend themselves against an aggressor - Hezbollah that is a proxy for a regional aggressor - Iran. That the Israelis do kill civillians in a hot war is a tragedy, contrary to their (israeli) interests, and enabled by Hezbollah using civillians as human shields.

You clearly have a very strong bias against Israel. Your efforts to bash them would actually be strengthened by even a small portion of objectivity. But who am I to get in the way of another man's perversion.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3284779,00.html

Palestinian protesters in Ramallah urge Hizbullah to fire missiles on central Israel; former Palestinian interior minister calls on Fatah fighters to go on high alert ahead of possibility of escalation in fighting.
...
The demonstrators held up Lebanese and Hizbullah flags, as well as photographs of Hizbullah leader Hassan Nasrallah , and called on him to bomb Tel Aviv.
...

Sully August 1, 2006 - 10:57am

From the weak, words. From the powerful, action.

pihwht August 1, 2006 - 11:28am

that after having decades of missiles tossed at them and "collateral damage" as a result of Israel "defending itself" the Palestinian populace may well have come to regard such as the norm.

As you say a small portion of objectivity is important here, or are the lives of the many hundreds of innocents taken less worthy than those in central Israel

I don't hold with the concept of bombing Tel Aviv or anywhere else, but if you are unable to answer the question "why do they hate us" (and the answer is not hard to see) then you really do have a problem

Asylum August 1, 2006 - 8:43pm

....Cut through the apology, both from Israel and our media, and the aerial strike on Qana looks, at the very best interpretation, recklessly ambivalent about the likely civilian death toll. A cynic might go further. Was the attack meant as a warning to other civilians still in south Lebanon to get out -- and fast? After its clear failure to win a conventional war, does the Israeli army want a freer hand to begin the job of incinerating Hizbullah, using its cluster and incendiary bombs, the Middle East's napalm? Was the answer to be found in the statement of Israel's Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, yesterday that, generously, he was giving civilians 24 hours safe passage to get out of the south.

Or was the massacre crafted as punishment for Qana's villagers, for those living among Hizbullah, for those who are related to Hizbullah, for those who believe that Hizbullah is their best hope of preventing another Israeli occupation? Did Israel's Justice Minister Haim Ramon not make precisely this point last week when he announced in a cabinet meeting: "Everyone in southern Lebanon is a terrorist and is connected to Hizbollah"?

Moshe Marzouk, a former senior Israeli army officer who has turned his hand to being a "counter-terrorism expert" in one of the country's leading academic institutions, told the American Jewish weekly The Forward that one of Israel's goal in this war is to teach Lebanon's Shiite community that it will pay a tremendous price for Hizbullah's actions. Maybe Qana was part of the price he was talking about.

Israel offers a second excuse for the massacre: it says it dropped leaflets on Qana warning civilians to leave the area. Again, our cynic could point out that those leaflets were dropped 10 days ago, as they were across most of south Lebanon. Qana had no reason to expect worse than anywhere else -- and possibly it expected better, assuming that Israel would not dare to stage a war crime here for a second time after it troops massacred more than 100 civilians in 1996.

....Our cynic could also note that Israel has bombed the escape roads from the south and is shooting at anything that moves on what is left of them. And he could point out that many of Qana's families have no cars to leave in, that they can find no petrol to fill the cars that remain after Israel bombed all the petrol stations, and that in any case they have nowhere else to go.

Though these things are all true, they distract us from the real issue: that Israel has no right to empty south Lebanon of its population, to make a million people homeless, just because its leaflets say they must leave. Jim Muir let us and himself down when he observed that south Lebanon is "not an area which can become depopulated overnight". No it isn't, but the deeper question is why should it be depopulated? At what point did the international broadcasters fall unnoticed behind an agenda that demands south Lebanon be ethnically cleansed to satisfy Israel?

Our media are oblivious to the double standards. Did Hizbullah's leader Hassan Nasrallah not publicly warn that he would attack Haifa days before he did so, if Israel continued its aggression and refused to negotiate over a prisoner swap? Were Israelis not warned to leave too? And would we allow Hizbulllah to use that as a justification for its rocket fire on Israel?

On Friday Hizbullah fired its first khaibar missile, packed with 100kg of explosives, close by Nazareth -- we could feel the earth tremble from the impact. The Shiite militia waited more than two weeks before launching a warhead of that size, after it made repeated threats to do so if Israel continued its onslaught. Who will point out that had Hizbullah wanted to, if Israel's destruction was the real aim, it could have fired those khaibar rockets from day one?

And on Saturday Nasrallah promised to strike "beyond Haifa" with even more lethal rockets if Israel refused to countenance a ceasefire. Who on the BBC, or CNN or any of our other channels will quote that warning as justification if Hizbullah extends its fire to Hadera, Netanya or Tel Aviv in the coming days?

This is not a war of two narratives, nor even of two worldviews. It is a war in which we, the West, speak for both sides. Where we define the meaning of suffering and death, and of victory and peace. Where our humanity alone counts because we feel only our own pain as the birth pangs take hold.

The reason they hate us lies buried in Qana

stunster August 1, 2006 - 2:27am

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L01836386.htm



In these times you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning. ~ Carl Sandburg

Tina August 1, 2006 - 6:09am

'Oops, sorry' doesn't let Israel off the hook
By Adam Shatz, ADAM SHATZ is literary editor of the Nation.
August 1, 2006
LA Times

IN THE WEST, Qana, a small Lebanese village southeast of Tyre, is believed by some to be the place where Jesus performed his first miracle, turning water into wine. In Lebanon and throughout the wider Arab and Muslim world, however, the village's name has for the last decade been synonymous with something else: the killing in April 1996 of more than 100 men, women and children who had taken refuge in a U.N. compound, hiding from Israeli shelling directed at Hezbollah. Over time, Qana has been sculpted by Hezbollah into a symbol of martyrdom, a Shiite version of Sabra and Shatila.

The Qana massacre, as it soon became baptized, sparked outrage throughout the Arab and Muslim world and raised the stature of Hezbollah. It also nourished the fury of Al Qaeda. "The horrifying pictures of the massacre of Qana, in Lebanon, are still fresh in our memory," wrote Osama bin Laden in August 1996, in his first fatwa declaring war against the United States.

Although Israel expressed "regret" for its "mistake," it justified the attack as a response to Hezbollah's firing of two Katyusha rockets and eight mortars from areas near the compound. The architect of Israel's "Operation Grapes of Wrath," Prime Minister Shimon Peres, argued that Hezbollah bore responsibility for the Qana disaster, claiming it cynically used civilians as human shields.

History repeated itself Sunday with grisly precision when Israel, in the midst of another war with Hezbollah, bombed a residential apartment building in Qana, killing as many as 56 civilians, 37 of them children. Once again, Israel insisted that it had made a "mistake" for which Hezbollah was ultimately responsible because it was launching rockets toward Israel from the village of Qana.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, in a speech Monday announcing that Israel would not adhere to the 48-hour cease-fire to which it had agreed under American pressure, said, "I am sorry from the bottom of my heart for all deaths of children or women in Qana…. We did not search them out … they were not our enemies, and we did not look for them."

Let us assume, for the sake of argument, that Israel did, in fact, make the same mistake twice in Qana — or, to take another recent example, in Gaza, where a family of eight spending an afternoon on the beach was killed by an errant Israeli shell in June. If Israeli assertions are true that these killings of scores of civilians were unintentional, does that mean that Israel can claim the high ground in its battle with Hezbollah and Hamas? Is Israel's "accidental" violence against civilians somehow better, or more morally acceptable, than that of a Hamas suicide bomber who steps into a pizzeria seeking to kill civilians? Or a Hezbollah guerrilla firing a Katyusha in the direction of a Haifa residential neighborhood? In short, do Israel's declared intentions make a difference?

To the victims in Qana and Gaza, the answer to these questions is obviously no. Nor will Olmert's "condolences" be greeted with anything gentler than sarcasm in the Arab and Muslim world, particularly because Israel barely paused after Qana before resuming airstrikes against Lebanon.

Of course, Israel is not really addressing its "apologies" to the Arab world but to the West, the club of "civilized" democracies in which it proudly claims membership. The argument Israel and its supporters make to this audience is that Hezbollah and Hamas deliberately target civilians, whereas Israel only accidentally kills them in the noble cause of antiterrorism. Israel may be guilty of manslaughter, but not of murder.

But this distinction is meaningful only up to a point, and Israel, consistent with its history of violent raids in refugee camps and crowded cities, passed this point almost as soon as the offensive began.

Rather than limiting its strikes to key Hezbollah positions and pursuing all available diplomatic channels, as might be expected of a mature regional power with nuclear weapons, Israel launched a vengeful war on Lebanon, which, it has since been reported, was planned over a year in advance. It has displayed a callous disregard for human life, for Lebanon's infrastructure (which only in recent years had begun to recover from Israel's 1982 invasion), for the stability of Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora's fragile government and for the country's natural environment, now facing an ecological catastrophe from an oil spill caused by the bombing. An estimated 750 Lebanese, overwhelmingly civilians and many of them children, have died, a dozen times more than the 50-plus Israelis (more than half of them soldiers) killed by Hezbollah.

Israel's "humanitarian intervention," as Defense Minister Amir Peretz risibly characterized the war in Lebanon, has been far more costly of civilian life than Hezbollah's rocket attacks into Israel. Faced with mounting, televised evidence of Israel's behavior, the country's supporters abroad have taken great pains to portray the Israeli Defense Forces as a uniquely moral army, governed by a rigorous moral code yet forced to make tough decisions in a cruel environment. According to Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz, for instance, Israel deserves praise for warning civilians to evacuate areas it has targeted for bombing.

Those who remain may be civilians, he says, but they are less than innocent. This conveniently overlooks the fact that many people, particularly the elderly, are in no position to leave their homes at a moment's notice. Moreover, a number of Lebanese civilians who have followed these warnings have been killed on roads that have come under constant Israeli fire. As a result, many Lebanese, including those in Qana, have chosen to stay put rather than brave the roads.

ANOTHER ARGUMENT made by Israel's defenders is that it cannot be held responsible for killing civilians in militant strongholds.

Michael Walzer, the influential Princeton moral philosopher and author of "Just and Unjust Wars," recently opined in the New Republic that when Arab guerrillas "launch rocket attacks from civilian areas, they are themselves responsible — and no one else is — for the civilian deaths caused by Israeli counterfire." One expects this rationalization of collective punishment from a defense minister; coming from a "just war" theorist it is most odd. (By this criterion, the French Resistance would have been "responsible" if the Nazis had destroyed a village sheltering anti-Fascist partisans.)

In fact, Walzer's logic is explicitly repudiated by human rights groups. They weren't persuaded by this argument in 1996; in its damning report on the first Qana attack, Human Rights Watch concluded that the use in Qana of "deadly anti-personnel shells designed to maximize injuries on the ground — and the sustained firing of such shells, without warning, in close proximity to a large concentration of civilians — violated a key principle of international humanitarian law." And Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch, has rejected it again this time: The most recent strike on Qana "suggests that the Israeli military is treating southern Lebanon as a free-fire zone."

When Israel targets densely populated areas in hopes of killing one or a handful of militants, knowing that it may end up killing dozens of civilians, it can hardly claim to be showing concern for humanitarian law or civilian life. And by asking that we judge it by its professed intentions, rather than by its actions, Israel is asking too much of us and far too little of itself.



In these times you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning. ~ Carl Sandburg

Tina August 1, 2006 - 6:20am

Last update - 16:01 01/08/2006

Livni: Qana attack led to turning point in support for Israel

By Yoav Stern, Yuval Yoaz and Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondents

The deaths of dozens of civilians in an Israel Air Force attack on the southern Lebanese village of Qana marked a significant diplomatic turning point against Israel, Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said Tuesday.

The foreign minister said that following the events in Qana, Israel's scope for political maneuvering had been reduced, as was the amount of European support Israel is receiving for its operation in Lebanese soil.

The Association for Civil Rights in Israel on Tuesday urged Prime Minister Ehud Olmert to establish a state commission of inquiry into the killings.

Advertisement

As the Israel Air Force continues to investigate the air strike, questions have been raised over military accounts of the incident.

It now appears that the military had no information on rockets launched from the site of the building, or the presence of Hezbollah men at the time.

The Israel Defense Forces had said after the deadly air-strike that many rockets had been launched from Qana. However, it changed its version on Monday.

The site was included in an IAF plan to strike at several buildings in proximity to a previous launching site. Similar strikes were carried out in the past. However, there were no rocket launches from Qana on the day of the strike.

Meanwhile, the Lebanese Red Cross workers reported on Monday that 28 bodies, 19 of them children, were removed from the rubble.

The count is lower than the some 60 bodies reported by news agencies, quoting Lebanese security officials. Survivors say 60 people were in the building at the time of the strike.

Additional bodies are expected to be found in rescue operations.

Elsewhere in southern Lebanon, 49 bodies were removed Monday from the ruins of buildings in ten villages. Medical sources in Lebanon say dozens more are buried in the rubble.

IDF sources said the warning pamphlets the IAF disseminated to residents, calling on them to leave the area, were dropped several days before the strike, and not over the weekend.

The IAF does not have a way to verify whether villages have been vacated, or whether civilians remain hidden in bomb-shelters in locations otherwise believed to have been vacated, the sources said.

Paratroopers who fought in Bint Jbail last week said they noticed civilians hiding in the rubble while the fierce battle with Hezbollah militants was taking place.

The IDF account and those of survivors present contradictory versions of the Qana deaths. The IDF said that there is an unexplained gap of about seven hours between the IAF strike and the first report that the building had collapsed. Residents' accounts say only 10 minutes went by between the strike and the collapse.

The survivors say rescue teams arrived only in the morning, as night conditions made the rescue mission difficult. The Red Cross in Tyre received a call for help only in the morning, explaining their late arrival.

Sami Yazbek, chief of the Tyre department of the Red Cross, said his office received a call only at 7 A.M. The ambulances were further slowed by the bombed roads leading to Qana.

The media first heard of the bombing at 8 A.M. The foreign press quoted Lebanese sources explaining the late announcement, saying the electricity and phones in the village of Qana were almost entirely cut-off by IAF attacks.

An IAF investigation into the bombing is underway.

The IAF admits the village was struck three times between Saturday night and Sunday morning. Two bombs were dropped on the building in the first strike. Channel 10, however, said on Monday that the initial investigation shows the bombs did not immediately explode, and an explosion in the early morning caused the casualties.

The IDF provided no explanation for the second explosion, and it is not clear whether the bomb was moved, or whether Hezbollah ammunition stored in the building caused the explosion.

Civilians continued to leave their homes en masse in southern Lebanon on Monday, taking advantage of the temporary slow-down in the fighting, imposed by the IAF after the Qana attack.

The United Nations and the Red Cross delivered emergency assistance to villages in the south on Monday. The UN also delivered food and medical equipment to Qana residents.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/745185.html



In these times you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning. ~ Carl Sandburg

Tina August 1, 2006 - 9:30am

World body struggles to create peace force for Lebanon
`There's no ceasefire, so nobody wants to go in:' Diplomat

Aug. 1, 2006
OLIVIA WARD

Details at the Toronto Star

-----

In Afghanistan where currently NATO troops are stationed, I know Canada has written agreements between Afghanistan and ourselves. The agreements provide the framework for making and keeping the peace. It’s a very detailed agreement and covers things like civilians accidentally being killed and not being able for them to hold Canada responsible in a civil suit for damages.

The MNF the UN are attempting to hobble together for the Midddle East is complicated because all the combatants aren't at the table. Some are included, others aren't. Mission Impossible indeed!

For example: Canadian Prime Minister Harper believes there should be a MNF, but wouldn’t approve Canadian troops being sent there. The risk to the lives of MNF troops is very high. Middle Eastern countries including Israel disdain the UN.

canuck August 1, 2006 - 9:56am

Will Qana horror spur truce as in '96?
Also provides lesson about modern war
Aug. 1, 2006
TIM HARPER, WASHINGTON BUREAU

WASHINGTON—History is repeating itself in the Middle East with tragic and bloody precision.

More at the Toronto Star

canuck August 1, 2006 - 9:59am

David Robertson | August 1

The Times - ISRAEL has more than $4 billion (£2.1 billion) in outstanding credit and undelivered orders with American defence contractors.

Since 2001 the Israeli Armed Forces have been allocated $10.5 billion in military aid from the US Government, but they have received only $6.3 billion-worth of arms.

The remaining $4.2 billion of weaponry will be purchased or delivered over the next few years, although with Israel engaged in attacks on southern Lebanon a number of these orders are being expedited.

Since Israel started to bomb Hezbollah targets in Lebanon last month, it has asked for faster delivery of JP8 jet fuel and guided bomb units (GBU28s). The jet fuel order could be worth up to $210 million and the 100 GBU28s, which are better-known as bunker busters, could cost $30 million. Other outstanding deliveries include F16 fighter jets and armoured troop carriers.

[Comment: I'm having a tough time believing that the JP-8 is an immediate operational need. As much as anything, I rather suspect that this is a means of politically tying the US even more closely to the Lebanon offensive. ~ JPD]

"We declared war on terror, it's not even a noun, so, good luck. After we defeat it, I'm sure we'll take on that bastard ennui." - Jon Stewart.

JustPlainDave August 1, 2006 - 10:00am

09:52 Hezbollah reports clashes with IDF forces in Aita al-Shaab, Kafr Kila (Reuters)

10:09 IDF troops operating in several villages north of Metula (Israel Radio)

الملخص:التصدي للعدوان الإسرائيلي على لبنان
تدور مواجهات عنيفة قرب عيتا الشعب والمقاومة الإسلامية تدمر دباية وجرافة والعدو يعترف بإصابة جنديين
المصدر:تلفزيونات. بتاريخ 01/08/2006 الساعة

Translation: Heavy Fighting close to Eita alsha3b, resistant fighters destroy a tank and a bulldozer, enemy recognizes 2 wounded

12.37: مصدر: اسرائيل تخطط لاجتياح لبنان بعمق 6 الى 7 كيلومترات
12.36: غضب الجنرالات علق هدنة الـ 48 ساعة الجوية . هآرتس: اسرائيل مستعدة لمبادلة الاسرى مع حزب الله

[translation]

Israel is planning a 6 to 7 Km invasion inside lebanon

Haaretz: Israel is ready for prisoners exchange

Tayyar.org
three Israeli Soldiers Killed In South Lebanon Clashes - Arabiya Tv
__________________

الاشتباكات لا تزال دائرة بعنف في منطقة عيتا الشعب ووقوع أكثر من عشرين إصابة للعدو بين قتيل وجريح

المصدر:. بتاريخ 01/08/2006 الساعة 13:40

Translation: Fighting continues in 3eta elsha3b area, around 20 israeli down among wounded and dead
__________________

المقاومة الإسلامية تؤكد أن العدو لم يتمكن من سحب جنوده المصابين في عيتا الشعب
المصدر:"المنار ". بتاريخ 01/08/2006 الساعة 13:48

Translation: Enemy can't pull out their injured from Eita el sha3ab according to resistance informaiton.

12:32 Hezbollah confirm four guerillas die in near border clashes with IDF (AP)

12:09 Heavy clashes between IDF troops and Hezbollah in southern Lebanon (Haaretz)
__________________

We will sue Israel in Hague (Ynetnews)

Lebanon is planning to file a lawsuit against Israel in the International Criminal Court. Tuesday, Lebanese Minister of Justice Charles Rizk made a written petition to the Lebanese Prime Minister, Fouad Siniora, asking him to bring up the issue in the next meeting of the Lebanese cabinet, so that the prime minister will be able to collect witnesses in preparation before filing of the complaint...
__________________

Translation: Al-Manar tv just mentioned that around 20 israeli aggressor have been wounded or died in 3eta el Sha3b
__________________

14:56 EU draft statement includes call for immediate cease-fire in Lebanon (Reuters)

14:55 Lahoud: If IDF invades, Lebanese army will join Hezbollah in fighting (Itim)

14:53 FM: Int`l force could enter south Lebanon if Hezbollah is not uprooted (Israel Radio)

(Reuters)SNAPSHOT-Latest developments in the Middle East

Here are developments on the 21st day of the Middle East crisis.

* Israel punches into southern Lebanon and pounds towns and villages in two other areas, meeting fierce resistance from Hizbollah guerrillas who reportedly killed three soldiers.

* Israel's armed forces are not capable of destroying all of Hizbollah's missile capabilities, according to an Israeli cabinet minister.

* EU foreign ministers set to call for immediate ceasefire after emergency talks in Brussels, a draft statement shows.

* Israel Security Cabinet approves expanded ground operations in southern Lebanon. Offensive will include a ground sweep 6-7 km (4 miles) into Lebanon, political source says.

* Israeli army calls up at least 15,000 more reservists to support the ground operations, Israel Radio says.

* Israeli Infrastructure Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer says army needs up to two weeks to complete its objectives.

* At least 605 people have been killed in Lebanon, although the health minister puts toll at 750 including bodies still buried under rubble. Fifty-one Israelis have been killed.
__________________

LBC:

Hizbollah announce 35 casualties in the Israeli army in Aita el Cha3b only.

hezbollah fighters Makes a Trap for Israeli soldiers in 3aita shaab school , and they kill and injure 15 of them in that school only !

Al Manar TV

Hezbollah are using USA made bombs.

Source: Al Hurra TV
__________________

Israel Officers admit that many Israeli soldiers have been killed and injured in 3aita el shaab (without giving numbers) !

Al Manar TV

16.37: بريطانيا ترفض المسودة الاوروبية الداعية الى وقف فوري لإطلاق النار

source tayyar.org

britian refuse european nation request of immediate cease-fire
__________________

BBC: Officials deny Britain rejects EU draft on immediate Mid-East truce.
__________________

Israeli Minister Ramon: IDF asked for a minimum 4 weeks to finish Hezbollah off.
__________________

Britain and Germany rejected a draft EU statement Tuesday calling for an immediate cease-fire in the fighting between Israel and Hizbullah, diplomats said.

Britain "can't accept" the draft under any circumstances, a senior British official said.

The two nations, at emergency EU foreign ministers' talks, offered an alternative draft calling for an eventual "cessation of hostilities" - with no time frame given.

source: jpost

stunster August 1, 2006 - 10:49am

is running at more than 10 to 1, dead Arabs to dead Israelis.

Historically Israelis have killed, kidnapped, tortured and imprisoned far more Arabs than vice versa.

Being accused of bias by you is like being told to sit up straight by the Hunchback of Notre Dame.

stunster August 1, 2006 - 11:31am

and who are you talking too?



In these times you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning. ~ Carl Sandburg

Tina August 1, 2006 - 11:37am

He's talking to Sully who thinks because Stunster see's Isreal as being wrong in it's actions that he has a bias against Isreal. I think if you take away religion, nationality and the actions, and just look at the result of those actions instead then stunsters arguments and points would be supported quite well.

Meanwhile, the US has been flying planes of bombs and hazardous material through UK civilian airports. Great friends huh?

Airport curb on US 'bomb flights' BBC - August 1

Caribdude August 1, 2006 - 11:46am

Are you staying dry carib?



In these times you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning. ~ Carl Sandburg

Tina August 1, 2006 - 12:02pm

Gotta post about TS Chris on the news queue.

While I'm here though. How long is the border between Isreal and Lebanon. I'm curious because clearing a 1sq mile security zone along it seems like alot of sq miles.

Carib

Caribdude August 1, 2006 - 1:50pm

Are you saying that Hezbollah is not trying to kill Israelis with their missles? I got the distinct feeling they were hoping to hit them and kill them. They are just not very efficient, although not for lack of trying. Maybe the next time one of Hezbollah's missles hits an Israeli hospital it will kill a few hundred patients and staff. That way your kill ratio will be a lot more even.

Remember - Hezbollah has been hoping to hit civillian targets with their missles. The Israelis are trying to avoid hitting them while hitting Hezbollah.

Borrowing a line from Galloway is fitting.

Sully August 1, 2006 - 2:11pm

?? They're not trying very hard.

ScottM August 1, 2006 - 2:41pm

and Afghanistan?
Compare with Russia in Chechnya? Iraq v. Iran? USA v. Viet Nam? US v. Somali Ganglords?

I'm genuinely curious. I believe there were over 800 civillian deaths in the battle on Fallujah.
I agree that it seems like they have made a decision that while they wish to avoid civillian deaths they value hitting Hezbollah even more. Not sure if they are acting any differently than any other military would in the circumstance.
While two wrongs don't make a right, some context is important here.

Sully August 1, 2006 - 3:59pm

and I think that Israel and the USA are _comparatively_ trying to avoid inflicting casualties, compared to, say, the Russians in Grozny (well, Fallujah might compare there...) or Iran and Iraq during their rocket exchanges. That itself doesn't imply that America or Israel try to avoid civilian casualties in any way that might might significantly change the way they fight, though.

This leads us to the repeated paradox of 'Wars on Terror': the terrorists kill a certain number of innocent people, and then the targetted, precise, highly technologised response of freedom-loving nations, with its panoply of ground-breaking innovations that ensure that weapons hit only where they are supposed to... kills ten or a hundred times as many innocent bystanders as did the original terrorist outrage. And it is entirely predictable that this will take place.

In general, I'd say that one main difference between the examples you give is rhetorical. For Russia, Iran and Iraq, killing civilians was no big deal and was not recognised as such. For the USA and Israel, killing civilians is no big deal in itself, but it can have political consequences, leading to the rhetorics that we see applied in Lebanon now.

"We killed civilians? Sorry!"
"We killed civilians? Sorry!"
"We killed civilians? Sorry!"
[repeat]

ScottM August 1, 2006 - 4:43pm

Last update - 16:01 01/08/2006

Livni: Qana attack led to turning point in support for Israel

By Yoav Stern, Yuval Yoaz and Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondents

The deaths of dozens of civilians in an Israel Air Force attack on the southern Lebanese village of Qana marked a significant diplomatic turning point against Israel, Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said Tuesday.

The foreign minister said that following the events in Qana, Israel's scope for political maneuvering had been reduced, as was the amount of European support Israel is receiving for its operation in Lebanese soil.

The Association for Civil Rights in Israel on Tuesday urged Prime Minister Ehud Olmert to establish a state commission of inquiry into the killings.

As the Israel Air Force continues to investigate the air strike, questions have been raised over military accounts of the incident.

It now appears that the military had no information on rockets launched from the site of the building, or the presence of Hezbollah men at the time.
.
The Israel Defense Forces had said after the deadly air-strike that many rockets had been launched from Qana. However, it changed its version on Monday.
.
The site was included in an IAF plan to strike at several buildings in proximity to a previous launching site. Similar strikes were carried out in the past. However, there were no rocket launches from Qana on the day of the strike.

Meanwhile, the Lebanese Red Cross workers reported on Monday that 28 bodies, 19 of them children, were removed from the rubble.

The count is lower than the some 60 bodies reported by news agencies, quoting Lebanese security officials. Survivors say 60 people were in the building at the time of the strike.

Additional bodies are expected to be found in rescue operations.

Elsewhere in southern Lebanon, 49 bodies were removed Monday from the ruins of buildings in ten villages. Medical sources in Lebanon say dozens more are buried in the rubble.

IDF sources said the warning pamphlets the IAF disseminated to residents, calling on them to leave the area, were dropped several days before the strike, and not over the weekend.
.
The IAF does not have a way to verify whether villages have been vacated, or whether civilians remain hidden in bomb-shelters in locations otherwise believed to have been vacated, the sources said.
.
Paratroopers who fought in Bint Jbail last week said they noticed civilians hiding in the rubble while the fierce battle with Hezbollah militants was taking place.

The IDF account and those of survivors present contradictory versions of the Qana deaths. The IDF said that there is an unexplained gap of about seven hours between the IAF strike and the first report that the building had collapsed. Residents' accounts say only 10 minutes went by between the strike and the collapse.

The survivors say rescue teams arrived only in the morning, as night conditions made the rescue mission difficult. The Red Cross in Tyre received a call for help only in the morning, explaining their late arrival.

Sami Yazbek, chief of the Tyre department of the Red Cross, said his office received a call only at 7 A.M. The ambulances were further slowed by the bombed roads leading to Qana.

The media first heard of the bombing at 8 A.M. The foreign press quoted Lebanese sources explaining the late announcement, saying the electricity and phones in the village of Qana were almost entirely cut-off by IAF attacks.

An IAF investigation into the bombing is underway.

The IAF admits the village was struck three times between Saturday night and Sunday morning. Two bombs were dropped on the building in the first strike. Channel 10, however, said on Monday that the initial investigation shows the bombs did not immediately explode, and an explosion in the early morning caused the casualties.

The IDF provided no explanation for the second explosion, and it is not clear whether the bomb was moved, or whether Hezbollah ammunition stored in the building caused the explosion.

Civilians continued to leave their homes en masse in southern Lebanon on Monday, taking advantage of the temporary slow-down in the fighting, imposed by the IAF after the Qana attack.

The United Nations and the Red Cross delivered emergency assistance to villages in the south on Monday. The UN also delivered food and medical equipment to Qana residents.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/745185.html



In these times you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning. ~ Carl Sandburg

Tina August 1, 2006 - 4:11pm

...enough. Bill Arkin has made the point, cogently I think, that by historical standards (and to my mind even recent ones) the civilian casualty toll has been very low. That said, if the accounts of the decision process for hitting that structure in Qana are accurate, they didn't try hard enough - lack of an immediate threat springs to mind here. Part of this I suspect is that they are getting to the point a la some stages in the Kosovo campaign where it's hard to find significant looking enough targets that they haven't struck, and so they start hitting the "could be" targets rather than the "definitely are" targets.

"We declared war on terror, it's not even a noun, so, good luck. After we defeat it, I'm sure we'll take on that bastard ennui." - Jon Stewart.

JustPlainDave August 1, 2006 - 4:47pm

Escher Sketch August 1, 2006 - 3:45pm

IDF casualties in south Lebanon

Cleared for publication: Army suffers a number of casualties during battles in Aita al-Shaab in south Lebanon. Paratroopers operating in village since pre-dawn Tuesday; at least six Hizbullah members killed in fighting
Hanan Greenberg

It was released for publication Tuesday that the IDF suffered a number of casualties during battles in Aita al-Shaab in south Lebanon.

Paratroopers have been operating in the village since pre-dawn Tuesday, with air force and tank brigade backup.

A military official described the difficult battles: “At every moment, a terrorist pops up. The shooting here doesn’t let up for a minute. Terrorists are operating from within posts, within houses and between them.”

YNETnews.com

stunster August 1, 2006 - 2:07pm

Al Jazeera reporting that Hizb'allah now giving a tally of 43 dead fighters since the start of the war.

Israel confirms 3 IDF fatalities (haaretz.com)

stunster August 1, 2006 - 4:05pm

Approximately 60 IDF D9 armored Caterpillar bulldozers are flattening abandoned Hezbollah positions across southern Lebanon.

Sixty bulldozers are flattening "abandoned Hezbollah positions".

What does this imply for the villages these "abandoned Hezbollah positions" were located in?

Escher Sketch August 1, 2006 - 3:40pm

that those villages ARE the 'abandoned Hezbollah positions' to the IDF.

stonehouse August 1, 2006 - 4:39pm

It might be hard to flatten an underground bunker with a bulldozer.

pihwht August 1, 2006 - 7:21pm

to find the bunkers, and then the IAF can destroy them with 'bunker-busting' bombs.

I'm not an engineer, but my guess is that within 5 years, Hizballah will have built even more and better bunkers.

I don't think that what Israel does militarily now makes much difference except in terms of finances and time.

All HA fighters still in the field could go home or lie low right now, knowing that they have resisted one of the world's best-ever equipped, and most ruthless, military forces, for over three weeks in a small area with only a few hundred casualties, while inflicting scores of Israeli casualties, and striking some Israeli armor, aircraft, and naval vessels.

This will go down in Shia history as one of the greatest feats of valour they have ever recorded.

stunster August 1, 2006 - 8:09pm

What's fitting is the Galloway line as I applied it to you. What's perverse is your appeal to objectivity given how blatantly unobjective you are about Israel.

Now, it's simply a fact that Israel has killed far more Arab civilians than Arabs have killed Israeli civilians, both in this war, and in the various Palestinian-Israeli and other Arab-Israeli conflicts.

As for Hizb'allah's tactics, they are typical of modern asymmetric warfare (cf. Iraq, Sri Lanka, Chechnya). 'Civilized' warfare is simply 'terrorism with a bigger budget'.

You seem to think that HA fighters should stand in large groups in an open field so that the IAF can mow them down more easily. You seem to think that because HA (or Hamas) has vastly inferior military capability, they should simply surrender, as if the fact of Israel's massive conventional warfare advantage proves just by itself that Israel's political stance and cause is right, and that of HA and Hamas is wrong and wholly lacking in legitimacy.

I guess I just find that kind of thinking, not to put too fine a point on it, ludicrous.

The Maccabees, the Masada Jews, and the Warsaw Ghetto Jews should just have said, hey, we should give in because our enemies have much greater military might, should they?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maccabees

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_rebellion

People everywhere at every time will fight with the tactics and methods that seem to them to be the most effective. Terrorism is a tactic, as Trotsky (himself a Jew) pointed out:
http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1920/dictatorvs/index.htm

Far more Lebanese civilians have experienced real up-close-and-personal terror from Israeli airstrikes and shelling in this conflict than have Israeli civilians from HA's rocket fire. As I said in a previous post, if Hizballah was given $3 billion a year by the US government they'd have less hazardous weapons storage capability and more accurate weaponry.

But again, this is simply to state the obvious, which is that the only reason Israel conducts warfare in a supposedly more 'civilized' and 'humane' way is because of Israel's much superior military resource set. If America was anti-Israeli for some reason and funded and supplied HA like it funded, say, the anti-Russian Afghan mujahedin, then Israelis would be engaged in terrorist activities (as they did in the 1940s with the likes of Begin, Shamir & Co.)

Getting back to the current situation, you might want to read or re-read these two posts:

http://agonist.org/node/32976/93185#comment-93185

http://agonist.org/node/32976/93170#comment-93170

It seems the Israelis, even with their far greater military power, are less than pure.

"Everyone in southern Lebanon is a terrorist and is connected to Hizbollah"

---Israel's Justice Minister Haim Ramon, /7/27/06

stunster August 1, 2006 - 3:49pm

You seem to think that HA fighters should stand in large groups in an open field so that the IAF can mow them down more easily. You seem to think that because HA (or Hamas) has vastly inferior military capability, they should simply surrender, as if the fact of Israel's massive conventional warfare advantage proves just by itself that Israel's political stance and cause is right, and that of HA and Hamas is wrong and wholly lacking in legitimacy.

I guess I just find that kind of thinking, not to put too fine a point on it, ludicrous.

Yes Stunster - Totally Ludicrous. What was I thinking. Of course Hezbollah should use Lebanese civillians as human shields. I am a racist for even questioning it. Thank you for so generously helping me see the light.

"I lived until 2002 in a small southern village near Mardshajund that is inhabited by a majority of Shias like me. After Israel left Lebanon, it did not take long for Hezbollah to take have its say in other towns. Received as successful resistance fighters and armed to the teeth, they stored rockets in bunkers in our town as well. The social work of the Party of God consisted in building a school and a residence over these bunkers! A local sheikh explained to me laughing that the Jews would lose in any event because the rockets would either be fired at them or if they attacked the rockets depots, they would be condemned by world opinion on account of the dead civilians. These people do not care about the Lebanese population, they use them as shields, and, once dead, as propaganda. As long as they continue existing there, there will be no tranquility and peace."

Dr. Mounir Herzallah
Berlin-Wedding

(translated from the German by David Ouellette)

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/archiv/30.07.2006/2660279.asp

Sully August 1, 2006 - 4:13pm

of like military bases surrounded by towns and germ warfare facilities w/i an hour of the capitol. But hey our administration has pure motives. hehe



In these times you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning. ~ Carl Sandburg

Tina August 1, 2006 - 4:26pm

eom

"Round and round, round we go." - Tupac

Samsara August 1, 2006 - 9:41pm

and the Warsaw Ghetto Jews..."

One might add to this the people who planned the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem... a former Prime Minster of Israel among them. That's the irony of this: Israel was born as a state through military operations and structures that bear a pretty striking resemblance to those of Hezbollah and Hamas, although with different ideologies, of course.

ScottM August 1, 2006 - 4:50pm

It's worth pointing out, however, that jewish terrorists in pre-1948 Palestine were more like the IRA in that they called ahead to warn that a bomb was going to go off.

Sully August 1, 2006 - 6:21pm

it turned out that it was just being disseminated when the bomb went off.

Interestingly enough, July was the 60th anniversary of the bombing, and the Menachem Begin Heritage Center (!) was commemorating it with a conference... because, of course, it ain't terrorism when the victors say so. Binyamin Netanyahu spoke, which was appropriate at such an event, I guess. There's an interesting column by Tom Segev in Ha'aretz on it, at http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/741434.html. It ends this way:

"...And now tens of thousands of Lebanese villagers are being forced to abandon their homes, and air force pilots are once again bombing Beirut and other cities. Hundreds of civilians have been killed. Regrettably. It's all in the spirit of the King David Hotel. One can always say there was a mishap."

ScottM August 1, 2006 - 7:10pm

But they unveiled a blue commemorative plaque as well.

The British government were said to be severely pissed off about the plaque, but judging by Tony Blair's reaction to Israel's activities in the last few weeks, it was probably the heinous grammatical sin of putting a capital letter in the middle of a sentence that really got their goat.

I mean "For reasons Known only to the British..."

The heartless swine!

stonehouse August 2, 2006 - 1:38am

20:47 EU will not brand Hezbollah a terrorist organization (AP)

stunster August 1, 2006 - 3:55pm

3 IDF soldiers killed in Lebanon

Cleared for publication: Three troops killed during battles in Aita al-Shaab in south Lebanon; paratroopers operating in village since pre-dawn Tuesday; at least six Hizbullah members killed in fighting
Hanan Greenberg

Another day of fierce fighting in Lebanon: Three IDF soldiers were killed Tuesday in two confrontations with Hizbullah in the village of Aita al-Shaab about one kilometer from the Israeli border.

Twenty-five more soldiers, among them one IDF officer, were lightly wounded
haaretz

4 soldiers injured from mortar on northern border

Two IDF soldiers were moderately injured and two more sustained light injuries from mortar fire.

Hizbullah operatives launched the mortar at an IDF force positioned on the border, adjacent to the Israeli town of Zarit, on the western side of the border. (Hanan Greenberg)

(08.01.06, 22:38)

ynet

Source ( Tayaar )
23.11
مصادر أمنية لبنانية : مروحيات إسرائيلية تنزل جنوداً قرب معقل لحزب الله في بعلبك
[translation]
23.11 : Lebanese security sources : Israeli helicopters unload troops near the stronghold of Hizbullah in Baalbek

23.07
العربية: ارتفاع عدد ضحايا الهجوم الاسرائيلي الى اكثر من 830 شخصأ
[translation 23.07 : Al Arabiyya: the total number of Lebanese civilian victims of the Israeli attack more than 830 people

stunster August 1, 2006 - 4:54pm

الملخص:عاجل: قناة المنار تعرض غنائم جديدة
عاجل: قناة المنار تعرض غنائم جديدة
المصدر:قناة المنار. بتاريخ 01/08/2006 الساعة 23:33

Translation: 11.33pm Lebanon time (= Eastern + 5)

Al Manar TV live, showing the remains of the cowardly Israeli army

stunster August 1, 2006 - 5:10pm

شبعا
هاجمت المقاومة الاسلامية عند الساعة التاسعة من مساء اليوم مواقع العدو في مزارع شبعا اللبنانية المحتلة

المصدر:بيانات. بتاريخ 01/08/2006 الساعة 23:44

Translation: newsflash 23.44: resistance fighters attacked sheb3a farm at 9:00 pm
__________________

stunster August 1, 2006 - 5:14pm

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/744877.html

Hezbollah's leadership is under increasing pressure, well-informed Lebanese sources reported a few days ago. "They only pretend that they are successful, in control, and that everything is going according to plan."

This assessment was correct up to the day the Israel Air Force accidentally bombed a building in Qana and caused the deaths of dozens of people. Although the bombing somewhat boosted support for Hezbollah in Lebanon or, more to the point, somewhat reduced hostility to it, the basic feeling of those in Lebanon who have had enough of Hezbollah remained unchanged.

The real sentiments of the majority of Lebanese do not get appropriate coverage in Lebanon, the international media or, to their disappointment, in Israel, said the sources. Fearing for their safety, they asked to remain anonymous. They said that morale among Hezbollah's leadership is low:

"The IAF bombing of the Dahiya neighborhood was a hard and humiliating blow to the Hezbollah leadership," the sources stated. "This is not only because the offices were destroyed. The offices were equipped with command, control and computer systems and valuable intelligence. But the psychological blow was just as important. They were surprised by the attack and by the precise information Israel possessed. The headquarters was their pride and joy. Its destruction served as a painful reminder of the gap, one that no Lebanese can miss, between their pretension of power and the truth."

The sources added that Hezbollah makes use of its security apparatus to terrorize opposing leaders and political activists. In fact, the sources claim, close to 70 percent of the Lebanese opposes Hezbollah and the escapade into which it dragged the country.

The Shi'ites, the source of Hezbollah's authority and power, constitute 40 percent to 53 percent of the Lebanese population. But the sources estimate that among them a third does not support the organization, and some even oppose it.

"But Hezbollah threatens people. Their security men wander armed in the streets of Beirut and, in fact, have control over the capital. The opposition ? Saad Hariri's party and other parties ? oppose Hezbollah, and they privately rejoice at the blows Israel gives the organization. But they are afraid to speak out. Only Druze leader Walid Jumblatt has no fear of publicly expressing his opinion."

According to the sources, Hezbollah almost openly promises that after the war it will settle scores with its opposition. This was confirmed in a Saturday article in "The Guardian," whose reporter talked to Hezbollah fighters. "The real battle will be after the conclusion of this war. We will have a score to settle with Lebanese politicians," they said. "We have the best intelligence bodies in the country, and we can reach anyone who opposes. Let us finish with the Israelis, then we will settle the rest of the scores."

Sully August 1, 2006 - 5:47pm

... The real sentiments of the majority of Lebanese do not get appropriate coverage in Lebanon, the international media or, to their disappointment, in Israel, said the sources. Fearing for their safety, they asked to remain anonymous...

According to the sources, Hezbollah almost openly promises that after the war it will settle scores with its opposition. This was confirmed in a Saturday article in "The Guardian," whose reporter talked to Hezbollah fighters. "The real battle will be after the conclusion of this war. We will have a score to settle with Lebanese politicians," they said. "We have the best intelligence bodies in the country, and we can reach anyone who opposes. Let us finish with the Israelis, then we will settle the rest of the scores."

Would you happen to have a link to that Guardian article cited? I'm having a hard time finding it.

Google Search Results - Tip: Try removing quotes from your search to get more results. Your search - "We will have a score to settle with Lebanese politicians" - did not match any documents.

Guardian - Search all sites: "score to settle with Lebanese politicians" - Your search produced no results.

Escher Sketch August 1, 2006 - 6:21pm

borrowed from the USA's wars:

"the mainstream media is not telling the good news from Iraq"

. The real sentiments of the majority of Lebanese do not get appropriate coverage in Lebanon, the international media or, to their disappointment, in Israel, said the sources. Fearing for their safety, they asked to remain anonymous...

Asylum August 1, 2006 - 9:11pm

At least there, they show actual suffering. All we get is patriotic music and silence coupled with nice pictures of our soldiers when they were alive. Then again, al Jazeera is the Fox of the M.E. What would that make al Manar?

"Round and round, round we go." - Tupac

Samsara August 1, 2006 - 9:45pm

00:30 Lebanese army official: Israeli air presence over Baalbek `unprecedented` (AP)

00:26 HELICOPTERS PUT DOWN IDF COMMANDOS NEAR BAALBEK (Haaretz)
__________________

israeli soldiers still inside the Dar El HEKMA hospital, and surrounded by hizbollah.
aljazeera.

al-arabiyya

nurse from inside the hospital, many injuries and many dead.
Fighting inside the hospital are still going on.

Israel's wants to kidnap Cheikh Mhammad Yazbeck (Hezbollah) from the hospital (LBCI)

the israeli commandos in their operation to Dar elHekme Hospitat, were supposed to kidnap Sheikh Mhamad Yazbek .
lbc

stunster August 1, 2006 - 6:59pm

if this is related to the Baalbekk fight, but it seems the Lebanese armed forces may be involved as well...

Huge clashes between the IDF and Hezbollah in Al Hekma Hospital in Baalbeck

Israeli soldiers claim that they need to Kidnap Cheik Mohammad Yazbek, an important man in Hezbollah

Clashes are still on, huge fires in the hospital...

Hezbollah's surrounding the building and the israeli soldiers inside...

01.47: الجيش اللبناني يحبط محاولة انزال في منطقة عين بورضاي قرب بعلبك
the lebanese army foiled a landing attempt by the israelies
source: tayyar.org
__________________

01.50: حزب الله : الكومندس الاسرائيلي وقع في الفخ في مستشفى الحكمة

Hezbollah : Israeli Commandos are trapped inside Baalbeck Hospital

source : tayyar.org

stunster August 1, 2006 - 7:17pm
stunster August 1, 2006 - 7:40pm

Hezbollah surrounds Israeli paratroopers in eastern Lebanon
Aug 1, 2006, 23:25 GMT

Beirut - A unit of Israeli paratroopers were surrounded Tuesday as they tried to land their helicopters in an area west of the ancient city of Baalbeck, a hotbed of militant group Hezbollah, Hezbollah and Lebanese security sources said.

'The units have been surrounded by Hezbollah fighters and heavy fire is covering the area,' a Hezbollah source said late Tuesday.

'They (the Israelis) are firing everywhere and trying to get out of the area' the source said.

A Lebanese security source said the troops had attempted to land near Dar al-Himkeh hospital west of Ballbeck.

'The battles are fierce..there are casualties among the civilians who live in the area,' the security source said.

The incursion marks the furthest north Israeli troops have attempted to land in the three-week old offensive, begun after Hezbollah killed eight Israeli soldiers and captured two others in a cross-border raid.

Earlier, helicopters landed in an area east of Baalbeck but were confronted by heavy machinegun fire from Hezbollah fighters, the sources said, adding that the Israeli army was carrying out a 'widescale operation' in the area.

Meanwhile, Israeli jets carried out at least 12 raids on areas 2 kilometres east of Baalbeck, where Hezbollah is believed to have bases, the sources said. The security sources said that jets struck near a Lebanese army base in Shilfa, also east of Baalbeck.

Israeli jets also flew at low altitude over Beirut's southern suburbs.

Israel has said that it will restart its airstrikes on Hezbollah Wednesday, after announcing two days ago that it would suspended its airstrikes for 48 hours, but continued to use its ground and sea artillery.

© 2006 dpa - Deutsche Presse-Agentur



In these times you have to be an optimist to open your eyes when you awake in the morning. ~ Carl Sandburg

Tina August 1, 2006 - 8:16pm

The IDF went in 80 miles to this town to raid a hospital and capture a hezzbol leader. They appear to have been trapped and are now surrounded with IAF firing missiles to break up the attack. The hospital, which I think we can assume had quite a few patients in it considering the past few weeks is now in flames.

I guess they thought the guy was worth it eh?

Caribdude August 1, 2006 - 8:19pm

and tomorrow we can hear about the re-bombed victims and Israel will have some more publicity to deal with. I am sure that they did not mean to hurt anyone.

pihwht August 1, 2006 - 8:42pm

- EOM

Escher Sketch August 1, 2006 - 9:28pm

Amos Harel and Yoav Stern | August 2

Ha'aretz - Israel Defense Forces commandos completed a raid of the Hezbollah stronghold of Baalbek in east Lebanon at daybreak Wednesday, in what Lebanese security sources described as a major operation against suspected Hezbollah positions.

In Baalbek, the commandos captured five Hezbollah militants and killed at least 10 others before completing the operation and safely returning to Israel, IDF Chief of Staff Dan Halutz said.

The IDF confirmed that its troops returned from the operation to their base in Israel unharmed and that several militants were captured by the raiding forces and taken back to Israel.

None of those seized were high-ranking Hezbollah officials, however, as the IDF had hoped. Halutz said Wednesday that the soldiers had not aimed to take any individuals in particular, but rather to demonstrate that the IDF could reach any part of Lebanon.

"We declared war on terror, it's not even a noun, so, good luck. After we defeat it, I'm sure we'll take on that bastard ennui." - Jon Stewart.

JustPlainDave August 2, 2006 - 7:56am

Dar Al-Hikma Hospital: After Open Heart Surgery, Transplant of Corneas and Artificial Joints

Summary:

Dar Al-Hikma Hospital in Baalbeck continues its course of constant progression in order to offer more services to its patients in Baalbeck-Hirmil area to minimize their suffering. The hospital, an affiliate of Imam Khomeini Charitable Organization, fought its way steadily to ease the pains of the weakened patients in Baalbeck-Hirmil area. Over time, it gained great experience in management and in the development of doctors' skills. It employs the most modern equipment and recruits the crème of doctors of different specialties. This qualified it to begin complicated surgical procedures, which are being witnessed for the first time by the Baalbeck area. Among the surgeries are open heart, cornea transplant, and artificial joint replacement.

A few years earlier, after its success in open heart surgery, the hospital managed at this stage to take a new quantum leap via transplanting corneas for patients suffering corneal deviation and other diseases that prohibit their vision.

The medical cadre in the hospital managed to transplant a donor cornea. These operations were performed on several persons and were all successful, where the patients regained their vision and returned to perform their duties after the procedure.

Further progression pertains to the field of bone and joints. This began with hip joint and knee replacement, knee probing in cases of ruptured ligaments and cartilages as well as sport injuries. There are also sophisticated surgeries to fix fractures of the tibia through the skin without the need for incision and at affordable costs.

Dr. Fadi Nasr Al-Dean confirmed that the operations of bone surgery are sophisticated and unprecedented in Al-Biqaa, especially that joint replacement surgery (transplant of artificial joints) and the fixation of fractures are being conducted in a developed manner in fitting with the economic circumstances of the patients.

Source:Al-Intiqad, 2006-06-30. Date: 03/07/2006 Time 10:32

Escher Sketch August 1, 2006 - 9:48pm

won't work in the longer term.

Only last week, Israeli sources were ruling out a big ground campaign. Within days they have changed course drastically. Why?

They realized that the air war was not doing enough to damage the Hizballah bunkers and tunnel networks. With the Katyusha campaign not subsiding, the Israelis realized that their intel was deficient.

You need ground forces to find the bunkers, and then the IAF can destroy them with 'bunker-busting' bombs, or they can be dynamited on the ground. Olmert was told initially by the IAF that it thought the air campaign alone would do the trick, but when over 150 Katyushas were launched following Qana, and even before then, they realized it wasn't going to work.

But even the ground war won't quite cut it either. I'm not an engineer, but my guess is that within 5 years, Hizballah will have built even more and better bunkers. That's all they needed to ratchet up their strength following the Israeli withdrawal in 2000, and this time there will be a ton of 'reconstruction' money flowing into Lebanon from many sources, some of which will for certain be siphoned off by Hizballah-minded people.

I don't think that what Israel does militarily now makes much difference except in terms of finances and time.

All Hizballah fighters still in the field could go home or lie low right now, knowing that they have resisted one of the world's best-ever equipped, and most ruthless, military forces, for over three weeks in a small area with only a few hundred casualties, while inflicting scores of Israeli casualties, and striking some Israeli armor, aircraft, and naval vessels.

This will go down in Shia history as one of the greatest feats of valour they have ever recorded.

This is why Israel is flailing about so furiously now, and desperately wants a 'regime-changing' operation to be launched against Teheran.

stunster August 1, 2006 - 8:43pm

Report: IDF, Hizbullah fighting in Baalbek hospital
By JPOST STAFF AND AP

The IDF would not comment Wednesday morning on a report by Lebanese sources that IDF forces were fighting fierce clashes with Hizbullah fighters in a Baalbek hospital in southern Lebanon.

"A group of Israeli commandos was brought to the hospital by a helicopter. They entered the hospital and are trapped inside as our fighters opened fire on them and fierce fighting is still raging," Hizbullah spokesman Hussein Rahal told AP.

jerusalem post

03.10: غارات إسرائيلية على قرية الجمالية قرب مستشفى دار الحكمة في بعلبك وأنباء عن إصابات
source: tayyar.org

03:10 Israeli raids on the town of Jammalie close to the Dar el Hekme hospital in baalbeck and news of casualties.
__________________
04.00: قال مراسل <السفير> ان المروحيات كانت لا تزال تشن غارات على المنطقة المحيطة بمستشفى الحكمة في بعلبك الى ما بعد الساعة الثالثة فجرا، فيما كانت المقاتلات الجوية تشن غارات وهمية. وبعد اربع ساعات على بدء العملية كانت اصوات الانفجارات لا تزال تسمع في المنطقة. ونفى مسؤول في حزب الله ان يكون عضو شورى الحزب الشيخ محمد يزبك قد استهدف في محاولة الانزال.
tayyar.org

He correspondent reports that helicopters were still carrying out raids in the area surrounding the Wisdom hospital in Baalbek until after 3 am, while air fighters waging covering attacks. After four hours since the start of the process the sound of the explosions are still heard in the area. He denied official Sheik Yazbeck, the intended target of the landing is a member of Hizballah.

03.45: مصادر لبنانية: وحدة قتالية اسرائيلية ثانية تتوغل في محيط بعلبك
tayyar.org

Translation

3.45 Lebanese sources: another Israelie Commando on the ground around baalback
__________________

stunster August 1, 2006 - 9:35pm

Reuters

August 2

AALBEK, Lebanon (Reuters) - Israeli commandos snatched at least three suspected Hizbollah members from the ancient city of Baalbek, deep inside Lebanon, on Wednesday in a raid backed by air strikes that killed at least 12 civilians.

Israeli soldiers landed from helicopters near a Hizbollah-run hospital near Baalbek in the eastern Bekaa Valley, captured several Hizbollah members and took them to Israel, the Israeli army said.

"During the night, (Israeli) forces operated in the town of Baalbek," an Israeli army spokeswoman said. "A number of terrorists were also arrested and taken to Israel."

She said the troops had returned safely to Israel. It was the first helicopter-borne assault far from the border since Israel's war with Hizbollah began three weeks ago.

Lebanese security sources said at least three low-ranking members of the Shi'ite Islamist group were seized in the raid. But Hizbollah denied they belonged to the group.

At least 11 civilians were killed when Israeli air strikes hit the village of Jammaliyeh near Baalbek. Security sources said five family members were found dead in the rubble of their house. Six other villagers were killed and two wounded. One civilian was killed by an air strike in Hermel to the north.

Israel's security cabinet has also ordered a ground sweep up to seven km (four miles) into Lebanon, a political source said.

Israel is seeking to damage Hizbollah as much as it can before diplomacy can end the war sparked when Hizbollah captured two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid on July 12. At least 636 people in Lebanon and 54 Israelis have been killed.

"THE BEGINNING OF THE END"

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said a ceasefire could be reached within days. "This week is entirely possible. Certainly we are talking about days not weeks," she said.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert also spoke of a political process that would lead to a ceasefire "under entirely different conditions than before" now that Hizbollah had suffered what he said were heavy losses. He did not mention any time-frame.

Israel says it will not stop fighting until an international force is in place in southern Lebanon. Israeli leaders believe they have at least another week to attack Hizbollah before major powers settle terms for a ceasefire and stabilisation force.

Security sources said Israeli troops attacked al-Hikmah hospital just south of Baalbek. One source said senior Hizbollah official Mohammad Yazbik could have been the target of the raid.

Another unit dropped in the outskirts of Baalbek.

Fierce fighting with assault rifles, grenade-launchers and machineguns raged around the hospital for four hours, witnesses said. Israeli helicopters rained rockets and heavy machinegun fire at targets near the hospital and other spots in the city.

After the commandos withdrew, warplanes destroyed the three-storey hospital, which had been evacuated of wounded Hizbollah and civilian patients before the Israeli raid.

Israeli aircraft also wrecked at least three bridges in the northern tip of the Bekaa and in northern Lebanon.

stonehouse August 2, 2006 - 1:49am

They just casually report "warplanes destroyed the three-story hospital?"

Why?

Escher Sketch August 2, 2006 - 2:23am

The 3 people that Israel captured claiming that they are from hezbollah fighters are actually civilians all more than 40 years old , one is 60 years old.

ANB

Hizballah spokesperson quoted as saying the IDF will soon discover that they kidnapped innocent civilians.

11:24 PM Olmert: Hezbollah`s infrastructure is entirely destroyed (Reuters)
__________________

More than 200 rockets fired at north of Israel since morning.

Source NewTV
__________________

stunster August 2, 2006 - 4:48am

...become "the Israelis"? Particularly when the story's bylined from Lebanon?

"We declared war on terror, it's not even a noun, so, good luck. After we defeat it, I'm sure we'll take on that bastard ennui." - Jon Stewart.

JustPlainDave August 2, 2006 - 9:43am

Interesting to note that Israeli news sources are now referring to "cleared for publication" when reporting any Israeli casualties.

It's quite obvious that after the initial poor reaction to heavy casualties by the Israeli public, the IDF is very heavily censoring reporting.

My sense is that when Israeli special forces are involved, nothing is said publicly and their families are sternly requested not to speak to the media.

The booby-trapped house operation which I posted about I think may have cost a number of deaths among such forces.

As for the reported anti-ship missile from Tyre the other day, my guess is it was launched but perhaps without adequate radar guidance to ensure a direct hit, or else it did hit but failed to do much damage.

The IDF's Baalbekk special forces raid disaster wouldn't have made the Israeli media at all, I suspect, were it not being trumpeted live by the Lebanese media.

stunster August 1, 2006 - 9:53pm

Yes, there's an IDF censor - has been for decades. Everyone that knows anything about Israeli reporting in this domain knows it; same as everyone that knows anything about British reporting on int and military operations knows about what a D-notice is.

And no, the raid wouldn't have been suppressed - if it's reported in foreign media, it can be reported in Israel sourced as a foreign media account, that's why back in the day one used to see a lot of "foreign media report that" stuff in Israeli reporting. Suppressing something like this is pretty tough in a small, politically contested place like Israel - look what happened when Sayaret Matkal had their blue on blue incident, that came out too. Today, when there's such debate over the course of the war, the estimated time something like this would last would be less than a minute.

Here's what purports to be the current guidelines via israel indymedia and here's a decent summary from JPost. Personally, I agree with them - based on many years of reading Israeli reporting and summary stuff dealing with int and SF, the current situation with the IDF censor is notably better than it used to be.

"We declared war on terror, it's not even a noun, so, good luck. After we defeat it, I'm sure we'll take on that bastard ennui." - Jon Stewart.

JustPlainDave August 2, 2006 - 8:16am

The US punditocracy and ruling elite is fixated on Hizbullah as a "terrorist group" even though the organization hasn't engaged in international terror against American civilians in many years. What they forget about Hizbullah is that it is also a Shiite religious party, and that that is how it is perceived for the most part by Iraqi Shiites. Some 45 percent of Lebanese are probably Shiites.

The other thing to remember is that the United States is now a Shiite Power in part, insofar as it semi-rules a Shiite-majority country, Iraq.

The Associated Press is carrying the story that Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani has demanded an immediate ceasefire in Israel's war on Lebanon, in the wake of the Qana massacre:

' `Islamic nations will not forgive the entities that hinder a cease-fire,'' al-Sistani said in a clear reference to the United States.

``It is not possible to stand helpless in front of this Israeli aggression on Lebanon,'' he added. ``If an immediate cease-fire in this Israeli aggression is not imposed, dire consequences will befall the region.''

Sistani had earlier condemned Israeli air raids on Lebanon but had confined himself to ordering the Iraqi Shiite religious establishment to provide aid to victims of the war in Lebanon.

Sistani's statements of early Monday morning (which are not yet reflected at his website in Arabic) go substantially beyond his earlier statement.

Several questions arise: 1) Why is Sistani speaking like this? 2) What can he do about it all? and 3) What are the possible consequences if he turns anti-American in practice, not just in rhetoric, as in the past?

Sistani is taking such a hard line on this issue not only because he feels strongly about it (his fatwa against the Jenin operation of 2002 was vehement) but also because he is in danger of being outflanked by Muqtada al-Sadr. Sadr's Mahdi Army is said to be "boiling" over the Israeli war on Hizbullah, since after all the Sadrists are also fundamentalist Shiites and they identify with the Lebanese Hizbullah. There have already been big demonstrations in Baghdad against the Israeli attacks, to which Sadrists flocked but probably also other Shiites.

Sistani cannot allow Muqtada to monopolize this issue, or the young cleric's legitimacy will grow among the angry Shiite masses at the expense of Sistani's.

Sistani is not linked to Hizbullah, which is strongly Khomeinist in orientation. Sistani largely rejects Khomeinism. He told an Iraqi acquaintance of mine, "Even if I must be wiped out, I will not allow Iraq to repeat the Iranian experience." When Sistani had his heart problems in summer, 2004, he flew to London via Beirut. He stopped in Beirut several hours, and Nabih Berri came out to the airport to consult with him. Berri is the speaker of the Lebanese parliament and the leader of the Amal Party. Amal is the party of the secularizing, moderate Lebanese Shiites. It was more militant in the 1980s but it mellowed.

So Sistani's political ties in Lebanon go to Amal much more than to Hizbullah. Sistani has many followers or "emulators" (muqallidun) among the Lebanese Shiites, though the hard core Hizbullahis tend to follow Supreme Jurisprudent Ali Khamenei of Iran instead. Some Lebanese Shiites follow the Lebanese grand ayatollah, Husain Fadlullah.

Note that Amal is allied with Hizbullah in parliament, and some Amal fighters have been killed in clashes with Israelis in the deep south. Amal abandoned its paramilitary during the 1990s, but seems to have kept some units active down near the Israeli border.

So Berri would have been in a position to implore Sistani to intervene. Sistani is hoping for something like a moderate Amal party to coalesce in Iraq and would want to help Berri any way he could.

Sistani has issued a warning to the United States. He wants Bush to intervene to arrange a ceasefire, i.e. the cessation of israeli air raids on Lebanon in general.

What could he do if he were ignored? Sistani could call massive anti-US and anti-Israel demonstrations. Given Iraq's profound political instability, this development could be extremely dangerous. US troops in Baghdad and elsewhere are planning offensives against Shiite paramilitary groups, so tensions are likely to rise in the Shiite areas anyway. But big demonstrations could easily boil over into actual attacks on US and British troops. Both depend heavily on fuel that is transported through the Shiite south. Were the Shiites actively to turn on the US for its wholehearted support of continued Israeli air raids, the US military could be cut off from fuel and supplies. The British only have around 8,000 troops in Iraq, and they would be in profound danger if Iraq's Shiites became militantly anti-occupation.

Since the Israeli treatment of Arabs is an issue on which Sunnis and Shiites agree, there is also a possibility that Sistani could finally get some respect from the Sunni community if he led such a compaign. That development would be more dangerous to the continued US military presence in Iraq than any other I can think of.

The US is already not winning against a Sunni Arab insurgency, backed by around 5 million Iraqis. If 16 million Shiites turned on the US because of its wholehearted support for Israel's actions in Lebanon, the US military mission in Iraq could quickly become completely and urgently untenable. In this case, the British troops in particular would be lucky to escape the country with their lives.

Sistani does not issue threats lightly, and he has repeatedly shown a willingness to back them up with action. Bush and US ambassador to Iraq Zalmay Khalilzad will ignore him to their peril.

Juan Cole
posted by Juan @ 7/31/2006 06:34:00 AM
http://www.juancole.com/2006/07/sistani-threatens-us-over-israeli-war.html

David Bier
CADRE Intel Mgr
http://groups.google.com/group/publicintel

techadvisor August 1, 2006 - 10:31pm

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