Afghan Bombing Kills 4 Canadian Troops

Kandahar | April 22

AP - A roadside bomb exploded Saturday as a Canadian armored vehicle drove by, killing four soldiers, the Canadian military said.

The attack occurred at about 7:30 a.m. as Canadian forces patrolled the Shah-Wali-Kot district village of Gomboth, about 25 miles north of Kandahar, Canadian military spokesman Lt. Mark MacIntyre said.

Most of Canada's 2,200 troops in Afghanistan are based in Kandahar, where they have taken over security from U.S. forces.


Tina April 22, 2006 - 8:31am
( categories: News | Afghanistan | Canada )

Four Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan
Updated Sat. Apr. 22 2006 9:29 AM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

Four Canadian soldiers have been killed in an attack in the Gumbad region of Afghanistan.

The men were travelling in a G-wagon about 75 kilometres north of Kandahar Saturday morning when their vehicle was struck by an improvised explosive device, said CTV's Sarah Galashan, reporting from Kandahar.

Three of the men were killed instantly. The fourth was airlifted to hospital but died before he arrived.

Three of the men have been identified as Cpl. Matthew Dinning, Bombardier Myles Mansell, and Lieut. William Turner.

Dinning was born in Richmond Hill, Ont., and was stationed in Petawawa, Marshall was born in Victoria B.C. where he was also stationed, and Turner was from Toronto but was stationed in Edmonton.

At the request of family the military has not released the identity of the fourth victim.

The men were part of a mixed convoy of light armoured vehicles and G-wagons returning to Kandahar from Gumbad, where they had been stationed, Galashan said.

Brig.-Gen. David Fraser held a press conference Saturday morning. He said he knew two of the soldiers personally, and praised their efforts in the region.

"Those soldiers were conducting operations to enhance the security of the area," Fraser said. "I had actually been in the area yesterday myself, talking with the local leaders. (They) had indicated that security had improved since we arrived in the area.

"They were exceptionally pleased and satisfied with the support given to them by the international community and the Canadians who were part of that community."

Fraser said an investigation into the attack is underway.

Just one day earlier Galashan had also visited the region where the four soldiers had been stationed.

"When we were visiting just yesterday they thought their operations were going quite well, that they had really made an impact on that community," she told CTV Newsnet, adding: "Certainly they were aware there were these dangers."

Sixteen Canadians, including diplomat Glyn Berry, have now lost their lives in Afghanistan since 2002.

more

Tina April 22, 2006 - 8:39am

as Harper decided to raise the profile of Canadian contribution to pacification efforts round the Kandahar district by directing commanders to "aggressively engage the insurgents/Taliban", and that "we won't cut and run" bluster. His stance doesn't particularly resonate with the majority of Canadians, and as the inevitable body-bag count rises,and more "friendly fire" incidents are reported, sentiment will swing decidedly against his government's posture, count on it.

barrisj redux April 22, 2006 - 4:56pm

Harper's statement has significance only to the vast majority that haven't been paying attention to actual events (again). This one's been cast in stone for over 18 months - "agressive engagement" is a) the entire frigging point of going to Kandahar, a decision that was taken a long, long, long time ago, and b) as natural to the Canadian Army as breathing. Same shit we were doing in Yugo - oddly it didn't "resonate" with that same "majority of Canadians" then, either (i.e., the Canadian public didn't pay attention, again). We buried a lot more guys during Yugo than we have during Afghanistan thusfar and they were in missions that were a boatload more ambiguous than this one. The Canadian public took it then, and they'll take it now - so long as they have that vague notion that we might be doing good and the death toll stays in the dribs and drabs (i.e., nothing like the BLT in Beirut). They'll say they aren't comfortable with it but it'll make no real difference to their voting patterns whatsoever.

The Canadian public knows exactly jack shit about the military and it has exactly zero effect on their voting behaviour. They'll hop up and down to tell you how much they care when you ask, but frankly they don't.

"We declared war on terror, it's not even a noun, so, good luck. After we defeat it, I'm sure we'll take on that bastard ennui." - Jon Stewart.

JustPlainDave April 22, 2006 - 7:06pm

Bercuson Report at forces.gc.ca. It sounds like the Department of National Defence (DND) makes the decision that is rubber stamped by the House of Commons. Could you please clarify where the responsibility for deploying the troops rests? It isn’t with parliament, but where is it and how are the decisions reached?

Sadly, I have lost track since my step-father who served in many branches of the military starting in WWII, Korea, then as a career soldier, and enduring ‘til Alzheimer’s ended most of his outside interests. He did keep me informed ‘til he became ill. He is no longer alive, but I should keep myself better informed about the Canadian military. Could you direct me to sites or books where I can attempt to catch up? Thanks.

---

I did see Hillier's comments that no vehicle would have survived the blast. That is somewhat comforting to know.

By the way, I do care as do thousands, perhaps millions of Canadians. But am limited to speaking only for myself.

canuck April 23, 2006 - 12:07am

...with Cabinet. As a practical matter this means that the power resides with PMO (as with pretty much everything else these days, it seems). Practice has been to debate the issue, but that frequently takes the form of "take note" debates. A good summary of the issue (and its history) can be found here.

As a matter of Canadian constitutional law, the situation is clear. The federal Cabinet can, without parliamentary approval or consultation, commit Canadian Forces to action abroad, whether in the form of a specific current operation or future contingencies resulting from international treaty obligations.

Under the Canadian Constitution (Constitution Act, 1867, sections 15 and 19), command of the armed forces – like other traditional executive powers – is vested in the Queen and exercised in her name by the federal Cabinet acting under the leadership of the Prime Minister. As far as the Constitution is concerned, Parliament has little direct role in such matters.

Of course, Parliament, especially the House of Commons, plays an indispensable though indirect role by voting or withholding funds and by retaining or withdrawing confidence in the government of the day. Moreover, short of an actual vote, there are other mechanisms that enable parliamentarians to hold the government accountable for its decisions and to register their own views. These include questions to ministers, debates on the Estimates, and take‑note debates.(2)(3)

Although Parliament has a specific statutory role in some national emergencies under the Emergencies Act and with respect to the active status of the Canadian Forces under the National Defence Act, Cabinet is required to seek parliamentary approval only in the event of conscription or specific states of emergency. Without consulting Parliament, Cabinet can deploy troops by an order in council.(4) Section 32 of the National Defence Act only “requires that Parliament (unless it is dissolved at the time) be sitting whenever any element of the Canadian Forces is placed on ‘active service’ by the Governor in Council, or within ten days thereafter.(5) Although the Act does not specifically give Parliament any say in the matter,(6) the requirement may reinforce Cabinet’s accountability to Parliament at such times by ensuring that parliamentarians are on hand to question and challenge the government.”(7)

It's important to note that one of the specific states of emergency that requires Parliamentary approval is a declaration of war, but that's something that is going to be exceedingly rare in any future Canadian deployments. The notion that we'd be committed to hot war without an extant authorizing framework like NATO or the UN is pretty improbable. As I understand it, in those contexts we wouldn't be declaring war, we'd be authorizing the use of force to honour extant treaty obligations.

"We declared war on terror, it's not even a noun, so, good luck. After we defeat it, I'm sure we'll take on that bastard ennui." - Jon Stewart.

JustPlainDave April 23, 2006 - 8:42am

...that I've found is army.ca - note that this is not an official Canadian Forces site; it's a public discussion board frequented almost exclusively by CF members. It's a bit odd (a considerable understatement) and it tolerates fools not at all, but if one wants to know what the guys (and gals) are thinking, that's where to go. I don't find it a good place to discuss general things, but if one has the background to understand what they're saying, it's a very useful place to listen.

"We declared war on terror, it's not even a noun, so, good luck. After we defeat it, I'm sure we'll take on that bastard ennui." - Jon Stewart.

JustPlainDave April 23, 2006 - 8:54am

Now if you could, please tell me why the Canadian troops are fighting the Taliban with jeeps Surely they need a more heavily armoured vehicle than a jeep?

The Taliban are now shelling the troops in what should be a secure area--similar to the green zone in Iraq which also is now coming under fire by insurgency forces? If they have the capability of killing the troops in areas such as those, they will win and the troops shouldn't be in Afghanistan.

I will lurk at army.ca and won't comment.

canuck April 23, 2006 - 4:38pm

...than a jeep. The G-wagon that was hit by the IED was, in fact, the armoured variant (and I've been told that the CDS has publicly stated that even a LAV-III, were it to have been struck by that specific IED, would have been destroyed). I don't know how the armoured G-wagon compares to an armoured HUMVEE, but I would expect it to be in the same category. In addition to the armoured G-wagons, they have LAV-IIIs, Bisons, and a few "interesting" highly specialized vehicles used for route-proving - in brief, there's no shortage of armoured vehicles of various sorts. Any sensibly designed military formation/unit is going to have a mix of heavier and lighter vehicles - each brings different things to the table, things that may be essential to some curcumstances may be deadly liabilities in others. For instance, the G-wagons can go places that the LAVs, even though they are much heavily armoured and armed simply can't go.

The Taliban aren't "shelling" the Canadians by any reasonable definition of shelling. If they hang around to correct fire, they get obliterated by Canadian gunners and their shiny new M777s or engaged from the air. What the Taliban are doing is taking rockets (107 mm of late) and rigging them for delayed fire -- this means that they take the rockets, aim them very crudely towards something that they want to hit (usually using a bipod) and rig them with a delayed firing circuit (a float in a water filled can is traditional, but with the ready availability if time delay circuits in consumer electronics I suspect they're using more sophisticated firing devices). Some hours (or even days) after the rocket is laid and the Taliban leave the scene, it goes off and heads vaguely towards its target. As a tactic it's harassment, nothing more. The military utility of this sort of thing is so close to zero as to be indistinguishable - it sounds important to the civvies, and it really sucks if you happen to be underneath where it lands, but it's pretty much like getting hit by lightning. The fact that the Taliban is reduced to tactics like this and IEDs is a sign of their weakness, not their strength.

Our bases at Kandahar and elsewhere are pretty much nothing like the Green Zone. For one thing, a much higher percentage of our people actually come out of our bases and conduct operations.

"We declared war on terror, it's not even a noun, so, good luck. After we defeat it, I'm sure we'll take on that bastard ennui." - Jon Stewart.

JustPlainDave April 23, 2006 - 8:17pm

and may the four that died RIP in cemeteries close to their homes where they will receive the honours that are due to them. The poppies will be added to their graves.

canuck April 23, 2006 - 9:20pm

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